Author Topic: Nine wolves found dead during gun deer season (Read 13974 times)

billy_56081 · « **Reply #90 on:** December 30, 2009, 01:30:39 AM »

Great idea Cheese.

We have had a few wolves killed here in Southern MN by coyote hunters. THe DNR has not done anything to the hunters.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #91 on:** December 30, 2009, 01:49:38 AM »

jcn59 , sportsmen don't gut shoot but people trying to get rid of stuff do . It seems farmers in areas where deer are in high numbers often gut shoot with a 22mag. or such so the deer will run off and die . More often than not they go to water and away from the area they were shot in thus no dead deer laying around to fool with . It must be effective as i have heard the same method mentioned in different areas of Va. and W.Va.
Must be a painful death .

Dee · « **Reply #92 on:** December 30, 2009, 02:03:49 AM »

Of course it's a painful death. Before the miracle of surgery, a gut shot human was a death sentence. A very slow and painful death sentence, with an over-powering thirst I'm told.
I once was told about an animal warden that worked in the same dept. as I, that had a habit of gut shootin feral cats with CB caps. He was a poor shot, and reasoned that if he gut shot them, they went off and died, and he at the same time solved his cat problem, thereby makin his job easier.
A poor practice at best, and an immoral one also. I do not like cats, and have a live trap set, as we speak on my property. When caught the cat will be given a vaccination with a Winchester, and will not be subject to catching any type of disease ever again. And he won't be crapin in my yard again either. His owner will miss him, and always wonder what happened to him, and probably get another one. I'll trap and vaccinate him too, and make him disease free. I all works out.
Certain things in life "just happen", and much ado about the event is not always a good thing. There is much to be said about the three Ss. The third member of the three Ss is sometimes just as effective as the first two concerning such things as wolves. The final s in the three is SHUTUP!

hunt-m-up · « **Reply #93 on:** December 30, 2009, 05:34:58 AM »

Were I ever to do something like this, shooting stray cats, dogs, wolves etc.

I would want to put them down and out in a hurry.

jcn59 · « **Reply #94 on:** December 30, 2009, 05:38:53 AM »

Years ago I read something about bear management by gut shooting on Admiralty Island. I'm sure it's practiced by deer hunters around here who are fed up with bears chasing the deer off the corn pile.

But here is what comes to mind. We have anti hunters who buy their meat at the grocery store. They distance themselves from the killing floor by not getting any closer to the death of the animal than the store. Death: Out of sight, out of mind.

Then we have intentional gut shooters who distance themselves from the painful death of a wild animal by letting it run off elsewhere to a slow painful death. Same kind of "out of sight, out of mind" thing as the anti hunter and his grocery store purchase.

This isn't just about wolves, is it? It's about the hunting ethics of quick clean kills, and more. It's about what we as hunters stand for.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #95 on:** December 30, 2009, 05:46:39 AM »

You must realize the killing of animals is not always carried out by hunters . The reason given for gut shooting deer is they will die away from the field . If we must debate the topic of cruelty then what should be done about poison and rats etc. ?

jcn59 · « **Reply #96 on:** December 30, 2009, 06:35:24 AM »

I guess we got here by talk of gut shooting wolves so they went away and died anywhere else. I am surprised and dismayed to find that any of our readers advocated gut shooting, but then I was only thinking of hunters, not thrill shooters. Good point, Shootall. Rats are poisoned out of necessity, gut shooting is done out of convenience.

I'm not troubled by "nine wolves found dead". My ancestors killed them all, and I think they had a good reason which is becoming apparent to our DNR.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #97 on:** December 30, 2009, 06:54:41 AM »

I would be hard pressed to tell a farmer that plants 500 ac. of beans and watches deer consume 100 that it is not nessary to stop them . It seems if the critter is pretty or otherwise on the "good" critter list they get protection but something like the low rat does not . Now we are deciding which life we have to take by one set of rules and which life can be taken as we see fit . No a sportsman would never intend to gut shoot but the farmer sees the deer as he does the rat in the above example . Who are we to tell him how to protect his crop ? When the deer like the rat cuts into his income are they reall different ?

jcn59 · « **Reply #98 on:** December 30, 2009, 07:22:16 AM »

I just finished my second 9 day Wisconsin deer hunt without seeing a deer. No, I don't sympathize with a farmer who intentionally gut shoots his deer so they die and rot "out of sight, out of mind" for the sake of his convenience. If he was any kind of a person he would at least contact a local sportsmen's club to see if they wanted to orchestrate some kind of supervised youth hunt on his property so the meat could be properly used. For most of us, it's against Wisconsin law to waste game meat. Furthermore, the farmer may own the land, but he does NOT own the deer.

I apologize for stealing this thread. It belongs elsewhere, perhaps titled "Gut shooting", or maybe a survey question.

Dee · « **Reply #99 on:** December 30, 2009, 07:34:22 AM »

If he doesn't own the deer on his property, pray tell whom does?

jcn59 · « **Reply #100 on:** December 30, 2009, 07:39:37 AM »

In Wisconsin, the State owns the game, so sayeth the State.

(you know, the State "owns" the courts, jails, etc., where you go if you take an illegal game animal?)

Dee · « **Reply #101 on:** December 30, 2009, 07:51:24 AM »

Oh yes! What was I thinking. The King owns the deer.

Graybeard · « **Reply #102 on:** December 30, 2009, 10:53:27 AM »

That's kinda what most states wanna claim unless and until "THEIR ANIMAL" is found to be doing damage to someone's property. They sure back off then and don't wanna hafta pay damages.

That's what I asked the Game and Fish folks here about beaver and muskrats doing damage to my property. I said since they own all the wild critters it should be their responsibility to either stop the damage or pay for it. They said GOD owns the critters and that if some of GOD's critters are bothering my property they the state would be happy to give me a permit to deal with it myself but they aren't gonna get personally involved beyond issuing me a damage control permit.

myronman3 · « **Reply #103 on:** December 30, 2009, 11:37:42 AM »

well boys, i have been busy and havent had a chance to check in until now.
concerning gut shooting....when i am trying to ethically kill an animal....never. when i am trying to kill at any cost, i will take any shot i can. and gut shooting can serve a purpose.
now ride high on them horses if you want, but any of you have seen aftermath of wolf attacks, and they way they kill, your sympathy would be out the window. i am sure some of you will say "that is just the wolf being a wolf." fair enough. someone who gut shoots a wolf is just being their-own-self.
the important part to any story is how tha story ends. and as long as stories end with a dead wolf, i am happy. i gives less than a damn as to how they were shot, poisened, fishhooked, ran over, trapped, or any other method you can think of....as long as the story ends with a dead wolf.

jcn59 · « **Reply #104 on:** December 30, 2009, 03:06:26 PM »

In the end, we're going to need to poison the wolves anyways, just like the previous generation that had the sense to kill 'em off. Kill 'em all.

It just irks me that the Madison DNR bums & tree huggers think we need wolves and lions running loose in our backyards among our pets and children. They wouldn't even consider going to a zoo with thier children and pets, where the same predators are running loose among them. And like I said, let a lion show up in Chicago, and BLAM! A police officer shoots it, and he's a HERO! He'd be in court if he did that in Wisconsin.

myronman3 · « **Reply #105 on:** December 30, 2009, 03:15:09 PM »

it drives me nuts, too. i am not against all wolves, but a totally unchecked population i am against. and that is what we have here.
i usually land on the side of law and order, but there are times when the laws are so insane, only the insane would actually follow them. when wolves are hanging around buildings, preying on livestock, attacking dogs while the owners have them on a leash, or squaring off with hunters to drive hunters off a kill, these animals need to be destroyed. and normally, you would never hear me promote gut shooting. this is a different situation; and i openly say kill them any way you can.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #106 on:** December 31, 2009, 04:07:39 AM »

jcn59 , great idea with the youth hunt , lets look at it deer eat crop in june hunting season starts middle of november . Sounds like most govt. projects . To late to do any good .
Now why is the life of one animal more holy than another ? Life is life right ? or do you decide what animal can destory a mans income and not be controled and which can be killed without care ? When deer like rats reach a certian level they are pest .

beadlescomb · « **Reply #107 on:** December 31, 2009, 05:28:32 AM »

i dont know about in other states but on our land down here in alabama we raise soy beans i dont know if you have ever seen a deer in a bean field but they eat a young plant down to the root in one bite and that reduce the output of the plant to almost nothing and one deer moving down a row will look like a lawn mower went through the field we have crop damage permit with that permit you can kill a deer in anyway you want day or night but you cant move the animal except to drag it out of the field because if you leave the carcass in the field the buzzards will beat the plants down with their wings so in this case you cant save the meat anyway this would seem to be a case for gut shooting if you saw fit

jcn59 · « **Reply #108 on:** December 31, 2009, 05:59:10 AM »

Let's not twist this up any further. I never said I was against killing crop-damaging wildlife.

If your place has too many deer, arrange for the local sportsmen's club to set up a youth deer hunt. Run it during the regular fall hunting season. Every doe shot will be 3 less deer the following summer. This is NOT rocket science. You don't need a high school education to figure it out.

If you are too lazy to drag a deer out of your field, you probably aren't much of a farmer either, so don't use this as an excuse for gut shooting deer. Or maybe it just boils down to this: you are not capable of making a good shot on an animal.

Or maybe you are just sick and delight in the deer suffering. Which is it?

Doug B. · « **Reply #109 on:** December 31, 2009, 06:16:12 AM »

My opinion.....There is no need for any animal to suffer, any animal. Yes, I do hunt as well as dispose of unwanted vermin. I do it humanely. My father taught me shoot to kill and kill as fast as I can. My conscience tells me that this is the proper thing to do. Disagree with me if you want. Am I wrong, do I have a "bad" conscience or do I just not "fit in" with what appears to be the majority on this thread?

billy_56081 · « **Reply #110 on:** December 31, 2009, 06:17:47 AM »

I guess I fall into the sick category. I have never harvested an animal for the sole reason of meat or need to stop predation I have killed a bunch though. Part of the reason I enjoy hunting so much is it allows me to vent my primitive agressive blood lust. I myself enjoy killing, just for the sake of killing. Take for instance shooting prairie dogs, hey we could poisen the little fellers, but whatching the explode into a red mist is much more
satisfying.

I'm sure some of the metrosexual crowd has buried their instincts to eliminate the competition, but I haven't.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #111 on:** December 31, 2009, 07:21:33 AM »

Well billy at least you are honest! There are some that would not be as forth coming nor as st8 forward!

I can respect that.

crash87 · « **Reply #112 on:** January 03, 2010, 05:41:57 AM »

The fine for getting caught is about right as far as the fines on other things go, as I believe a deer killed illegally is also about 2000 with the loss of "privilages" AND if I'm not mistaken the killing of a turkey is the same. A freakin' turkey, kill a grouse or pheasent and a slap on the wrist, kill the sacred turkey, OH my, you just killed the most over rated game bird and are now going to pay dearly. You talk about farmers and deer, I'm telling you the turkeys are hated even more by the farmer. Remember the guy who took em out with anti freeze? You've got to clean up your mess AND keep your mouth shut.
Now back to the topic, One other thing we must realize, is that the DNR going after tips on illegaly obtained or killed animals, ARE just doing their jobs as the law enforcment end of things. Now to them, it would be a serious issue, this dead wolf. What gives them the bad name is when they go from boat to boat at the prime time bite on popular lake X and ask to see licenses for no other reason than they think they can and do. OR, bust the guy they see getting in his vehicle, from an DNR induced unproductive day of hunting, only to pull him over to see if he is complying to proper gun carry in a vehicle and busting him for an uncased gun because his case zipper was not "fully" zip up, i.e. within 3". Can't happen to you, guess again. Unfortunatley most guys pay the fine instead of fight it, as it is an inconvenience. I do know of the person busted for the "uncased gun and one that "supposedley" improperly tagged a deer, who went to court and won. The judge totally chastized the DNR on the deer tagged charge, asking them if they wanted a deer that bad they should go out and shoot their own.
A comment or more so a question: Gut shooting? Since when would one want to take the high road when purposely doing a wrong on a federaly protected animal? Please don't preach to me about the humane or inhumane taking of this politically induced vermin, it's falling on deaf ears. I can and will make my own decisions when the time comes, and unfortunatley it seems, the time WILL come. Oh and
billy_56081 well put;

Quote from: billy_56081 on December 31, 2009, 06:17:47 AM

I guess I fall into the sick category. I have never harvested an animal for the sole reason of meat or need to stop predation I have killed a bunch though. Part of the reason I enjoy hunting so much is it allows me to vent my primitive agressive blood lust. I myself enjoy killing, just for the sake of killing. Take for instance shooting prairie dogs, hey we could poisen the little fellers, but whatching the explode into a red mist is much more
satisfying.

I'm sure some of the metrosexual crowd has buried their instincts to eliminate the competition, but I haven't.

You just described 99.9% of the people wieghing in on this thread, even if they don't believe it.
   CRASH87

Cheesehead · « **Reply #113 on:** January 03, 2010, 07:04:21 AM »

What gives them the bad name is when they go from boat to boat at the prime time bite on popular lake X and ask to see licenses for no other reason than they think they can and do.

I have experienced this, and what makes it even worse, they target the boats with bikini clad occupants. The girls in our boat began to feel "creeped out" and covered up.

Cheese

Drilling Man · « **Reply #114 on:** January 03, 2010, 11:33:28 AM »

Quote from: billy_56081 on December 31, 2009, 06:17:47 AM

I guess I fall into the sick category. I have never harvested an animal for the sole reason of meat or need to stop predation I have killed a bunch though. Part of the reason I enjoy hunting so much is it allows me to vent my primitive agressive blood lust. I myself enjoy killing, just for the sake of killing. Take for instance shooting prairie dogs, hey we could poisen the little fellers, but whatching the explode into a red mist is much more
satisfying.

I'm sure some of the metrosexual crowd has buried their instincts to eliminate the competition, but I haven't.

Hopefully you don't live anywhere around my farm!

DM

billy_56081 · « **Reply #115 on:** January 03, 2010, 12:38:51 PM »

DM most of my neighbors either like me quite a bit or don't know me.

myronman3 · « **Reply #116 on:** January 03, 2010, 01:05:29 PM »

Quote from: Cheesehead on January 03, 2010, 07:04:21 AM

What gives them the bad name is when they go from boat to boat at the prime time bite on popular lake X and ask to see licenses for no other reason than they think they can and do.

I have experienced this, and what makes it even worse, they target the boats with bikini clad occupants. The girls in our boat began to feel "creeped out" and covered up.

Cheese

there is an easy fix for that..... fish with ugly women. lol.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #117 on:** January 04, 2010, 02:26:52 AM »

cheese , I hate it when that happens ! covering up that is .

crash87 · « **Reply #118 on:** January 05, 2010, 09:17:03 AM »

Stop Killing the Wolves.
Any trappers out there, time to start trapping them, LIVE trap that is! Need to relocate a few of the liberals pets and let them go in their metropoliton back yard. I would think as they decimate the whitetail food supply "up north" there going to move southward anyway, just giving them a head start. Also with all the whining about the deer overtaking the city dwellers flowers, it will take it's toll on them too, along with, I suppose, their poodles, theirs kittens, mailman, etc. It's the etc. I'd be worried about. I know of a mansion in Madison soon to be vacated, (Why not, the irrepairable damage has already been done) that has a big yard.

CRASH87

mogwai · « **Reply #119 on:** January 08, 2010, 05:16:36 PM »

Quote from: Doug B. on December 31, 2009, 06:16:12 AM

My opinion.....There is no need for any animal to suffer, any animal. Yes, I do hunt as well as dispose of unwanted vermin. I do it humanely. My father taught me shoot to kill and kill as fast as I can. My conscience tells me that this is the proper thing to do. Disagree with me if you want. Am I wrong, do I have a "bad" conscience or do I just not "fit in" with what appears to be the majority on this thread?

Ethics is doing the right thing when nobody is looking over your shoulder. Gut shooting bravado doesn't portray MY sport in a good light.

I am ashamed of the other "hunters" that represent us, Doug B.