shoot down Israeli jets.

[powderman]

BILLY. We've ask tm many times which Godless nation he calls home, I reckon he's answered that. It's iran. certainly explains a lot.
For all of you who want to circle the wagons and let the Godless ones come to you, which they are already doing, rockets and missles are airborne, no ground attack. Circling the wagons might work on a ground attack, think about it. If my neighbor tells me he's going to anhilate my entire family as soon as he gets his rifle built, I'll make darn sure he NEVER gets the material to build it. The world is much smaller than it used to be due to technology. Islam is a fast growing cancer, a boil on the butt of the ENTIRE world and should be treated as such. Start here at home. One of the Godless ones arrested here this past week for plotting and gathering bombs to murder innocents with was an IMAN, one of their unholy teachers, headed a mosque. Their mosques are their lairs, where hatred and death are preached and taught. Eliminate them. POWDERMAN.  

[ironglow]

« Reply #28 on: Yesterday at 10:45:53 AM » Quote 

Searlock says;--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

just before God was going to let them romans gut them jews and spread them all over the globe, the romans let them jews decide who was going to be crucified jesus or barabas. them jews were and are some great people.
 
 
 
  Searlock;
       You just must get a grip! Before you speaking about theological history, you should get a bit of info about the subject. Yes, God allowed the Romans to disperse the Jews in order to work out His plan, simply because the Jews were not paying attention to Him. If God did not want them dispersed at that time, the Romans would have gone home with their tails whipped. (Incidently, we as a nation,having been enlightened and now turning away from it, may well be facing what Israel did in 70 AD).
     When you claim "the Jews (or Romans) killed Jesus", you have fallen into the same trap many theologically unlearned have fallen into. The plain truth is You and I and everyone who ever sinned (that's everybody) killed Jesus. So perhaps it is time to repent & be saved.

  ms figures we better stop speaking about God or this thread will be locked. Since both Iran anmd the Jews (traditionally) are theocracies, an enlightened discussion can not continue without mentioning God.

   PROOF: Ziggy Brezhinski is stupid:
  We should aid Israel in such an attack or at least stay out of the way! Should we allow "I'madinnerjacket" and his mullahs who are bent on preparing the way for the 12th mahdi...to continue until they have a nuclear warhead installed upon a rocket and fire it on Israel, then what happens ?
   Within a the hour Teheran and most major cities in Iran will suffer nuclear obliteration, and undoubtedly also Damascus and other places of potential threat. This would of course, end up in a general conflagration of the area and possibly the world.
  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see which is more sensible:

 1) Leave Israel alone if they take out Iran's nuclear facilities.

                            or

 2) TRY to shoot down Israeli planes, stop the raid, and bring on a general war in the ME and possibly the world.

   ...If jimmy Carter's head diplomate is this stupid, no wonder Jimmy is rated so low as prez...
 

[powderman]

tm. You really believe your fighters can take out the Israeli fighters??? No way the iranian pilots can come close. POWDERMAN. 

[petemi]

The Israelis didn't attack the Liberty by accident.  It was an Intelligence ship monitoring their war with Egypt and was learning too much...it had to go.  I know, I was on NATO/U.S Navy staff duty in the Mediteranean at the time.  The Liberty had her hull number displayed and was flying the American flag on a clear day.

Pete

[billy_56081]

TM they can't shoot down what they can't see. Remember what happened in Syria a short time back? Heck TM they might even switch off their IFF. . Remember that "expert" gaff you tried passing off a few years ago?

So TM do you have any special requests for the BBQ? Maybe chicken wire so objects thrown at you can't get ya. 

[billy_56081]

TM once again you avoid the question how can you shoot down what you can't see?

So how about any special requests for the BBQ?


BTW TM I am an American and an air defence veteran. I live in MN where do you live? Come on now TM afraid to answer?

[powderman]

tm. Our guys, mine and Billys, are Americans. Other than here I haven't seen or heard anything about OUR guys going against Isreali fighters. I've only heard your  iraqis talking about shooting Israel down, not Americans. Go for it, your  people will lose all they send up against Israel, as always. Your iranian fighters can't touch them. You seem somewhat educated so it would seem to me that even you would be able to see that your allah aint getting it done for you. Going to work now. POWDERMAN. 

[Badnews Bob]

I did not say anything about Iran did I.   I said Muslims, and what are most Iranians? Uh yeah, Muslims.Don't think you can lump Persians in with generic muzzies, besides a good share of Iranians are chirstians, gnostics, zorasterians, and jews.  You inferred in your posts that Iranians were behind the official account of 911...which is simply a false one size fits all assumption.

At one time the Persian invaded most of europe and guess what who where the Persians? Oh yeah they where Irainians.Please site your source or history,,,, are you talking 4000 years ago..?  What invasion of europe?,,, thanx...TM7

Arabs and Persians have been fighting since before North America was settled by white man, The problems are caused by two basic things, Greed and religious belief on all sides, you cannot sling a dead cat around with out hitting a guilty party. We can't control our greedy lieing leaders and they can't control thiers.

This will not stop until until the good lord stops it himself.  Read a bible it explains it very well.

I did no such thing, I answered a blanket post with a blanket answer. And four days ago or four thousand years ago makes no diffrence History repeats itself again and again.  Muslims are going to try and kill all christians it dosen't matter where they are from or where you are from. US is just the biggest target right now, If we stopped all overseas tradeing completely and came home, Muslims will come here and try to convert and dominate or they will kill every Christian they can. That is a fact, thier belief in the koran tell them to do so.

[Dixie Dude]

Muslims way of conversion is far different from Christians.  Christians are told if noone listens to dust off your feet and go on to the next town.  Muslims threaten to kill if you don't convert.  Happened in the 600's on until today.  The also kill if a Muslim converts to Christianity.  Christians are told to shun those who walk away, not kill them.  I don't care about the history of the Catholic chruch, but true Chistianity doesn't kill.  I don't know of any instance where protestants killed if someone didn't convert, or killed if they left the church.  I also know there were witch hunts, but it wasn't as bad as people made it to be in movies.  The problem with the Muslims is they haven't had a Reneasance like the Christians had.  There are 22 oustanding conflicts in the world today, 20 of them involve Muslims with someone else or with each other.  Only two do not involve muslims.  They can't get along with any other religions without eventually coming in conflict.  Hindus in India.  Buddists in Asia.  Christians in  Europe and America.  Jews, and tribal religions in Africa.  Every where Muslims come in conflict with someone else.   

[billy_56081]

TM again where is "your" country? Afraid ofv that question?

[ironglow]

« Reply #70 on: Today at 10:30:43 AM » Quote  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote from IG;
When you claim "the Jews (or Romans) killed Jesus", you have fallen into the trap many theologically unlearned have fallen into. The plain truth is You and I and everyone who ever sinned (that's everybody) killed Jesus. So perhaps it is time to repent & be saved.

.Quote from TM;
I don't necessarily follow this leap.  I try to see things as they are and happen when possible. Could you expound on this 'everyone killed Jesus' idea, which I know is a very common cunbaiya concept.  If it offends the management you can PM me to describe the logic behind this tenant.

As for Zibby good for him. It is about time US policy comes to its senses and retracts from zio-kissinger  neocon evangelical dominated support of the rabid Likud far extreme perpetual war party in Israel. This is one thing Obama is trying to get half right, in that he supports Tipi Lipzini ( talk about tampered election results..  ), a more moderate and palatable Israeli political figure and she is attempting to make a peace, make friends with both the Russians and Americans and counter the rabid Netanyahu's war party.  Good for her and good for Obama in this endeavor as the Russians see eye to eye in this endeavor as well. Looking deeper on this topic will explain the useless missle ring that Obama canceled. And also why so-called terorist were apprehended in NYC, which turned out to be driver's at the Denver airport...specifically for intell there. Get ready for a an attack....and this time let's investigate it...what do you say? For God's sake everybody knows you don't really need missles to sneak 1st generation nukes into a country anyway..let alone 3rd, 4th, and 5th generation nuke weapons.

BTW,,,if your fiery cosmological based scenario plays out...that will also be the end of pax israel...only in 2o minutes.
I have every belief that our pilots could take out issy bombers or fighters readily if so motivated. It would be a first for the issy airforce to come against a real equipped  and equally deadly practiced force.....and doing so might just save the world a great agony.


  TM;
  No need for me to explain the above statement again. I'm sure most here understand it clearly. If you do have a problem you ought to study orthodox Christian beliefs alongside the koran.
  We are well aware of the "missle ring the useless Obama cancelled"..he claimed we were developing something much better... but there are two problems with that:
  
  1) We don't have the "better" ones yet and may not get them till too late.

  2) Just a couple months ago, the useless Obama slashed funds going into any defense missle system developments.

     On the idea of our planes taking out Israeli planes, you're assuming our pilots will be very willing to do so..there are times when the most skilful pilots can repeatedly miss (if they wish). Besides, if Obama is willing to order shooting down planes of our long time ally to protect a Muslim terrorist. Can he handle what would transpire at home? This could be the straw that broke this camel-drivers back...
     It is about time  we quit looking at the conflicts we face as being limited to national geographic boundaries, we should be honest with ourselves and admit we are not fighting "a country" but rather an ideaology, an ideaology that wants to rule everybody or else kill them!
 We can see more proof of that today with bombs being searched for throughout or country at this very moment.
  Regardless of his religious persuasion, for the prez to order the shooting down of a friend's planes while defending themselves could result in major disruptions here.
  BTW: I don't believe any of the Christian or conservatives here have anything but love for their country but dislike/distrust the present leadership.
  It certainly appears that liberals on the other hand have great love for the present leadership, but dislike/distrust the country.

[billy_56081]

TM my allegences lie with God, family and America in that order. Being Irael is our ally I also have an interest in their well being. I am not blinded by the anisemetic hatred that you are and can see what a good friend Israel is. My coiuntry is the United States of America I have fought for her and shed blood for her I love my country.


I have yet to put a finger on your hatred, whether you are a Neo Nazi, muslim or just a run of the mill antisemite.


So TM to what do you owe allegence to? Please enlighten us. How about an answer to where yiu live? Afraid? I'm not as my screen name tells all.

[Redtail1949]

Many here are dead right on with the Muslim vs Christian continuous wars and also how the Muslim View is a lot different concerning conversion to their way of thinking. Those wars will never stop not because of the Christians only because of the Muslims.

It is long standing and has been going on for centuries just a little research will bear that out. No need to beat a dead horse.

More importantly is to understand whay..it is the basic tenant of the Islamic Faith that keeps it going CONVERT OR DIE ! NO EXCEPTIONS and it is because of the religious fanatics on that side of the fence that there will never be peace between Christians and Muslims of that faith.

I am sure that in Iran there are many many good and decent people that are Muslim and follow the Islamic way as well as many many christians and those people want no quarrel with anyone including the USA. However, they are not in control the religious fanatics are and they are the ones that will decide the fate of those they govern. That is where the real problem is and we must not lose sight of that. We can not ignore the open and direct threats made by the leadership of that nation. He believes and he means to do what he says. It is unfortunate for the good people of Iran that is an understatement however we must defend ourselves as well as the Israelis.

Remember Bin Laden was basicly ignored by most left wingers including Clinton viewed it as ...What the hell can a man that rides a donkey in barren mountains carring an AK47 possibly do to the USA..hell just 1 A10 Warthog and we will destroy those ragheads in an afternoon.

We had all the warnings and he spoke openly about what he was going to do to us and it was that refusal to see the threat and to take powerfull and decisive action that led to 911.

it is just that attitude that we must not injure the innocent we must at all cost avoid collateral damage that makes us weak and the people that wish us harm know it and will and have taken advantage of that fact and it has cost many a young AMERICAN man his life.

Thats why true soldiers must execute the wars not the politicians nor the bleeding hearts. War is brutal and terrible and in war many innocents die. That is the way it is. Only those with the will of iron and the stomach to fight will survive.

If we have to we must attack our enemy and kill as many as we can as quickly as we can and bring such terror and misery that they will quit not wanting any more. If not we must obliterate them from the earth.

Those that have been in war and witnessed its horror understand that the quicker you end it the better for us as well as the enemy and the good people on that side. Prolonging or piecemealing it will just cost more lives especialy if the victory comes before the enemy is totaly defeated.

An ARMISTICE SUCH AS WW1 or KOREA where the enemy is still not convinced he was defeated is useless. It must must be an unconditrional surrender such as WWII where we beat the Germans down and the Japs to the point they wanted no more of war. Yes it was horrible to both of those Nations as well as us but it had to be that way. The same goes for Iran or any others that dare attack us.

Yet in the case of Iran your right they have not openly attacked us but there can be no doubt they will so we must rcognize the danger and stop it before it happens. That will save many American as well as Iranian lives in the end. If any lesson has ever been learned it is that you must not letr your enemy attack and you not be prepared and if you know he will you owe it to the people of this nation to STRIKE FIRST!

[Swampman]

TM my allegences lie with God, family and America in that order. Being Irael is our ally I also have an interest in their well being. I am not blinded by the anisemetic hatred that you are and can see what a good friend Israel is. My coiuntry is the United States of America I have fought for her and shed blood for her I love my country.


I have yet to put a finger on your hatred, whether you are a Neo Nazi, muslim or just a run of the mill antisemite.


So TM to what do you owe allegence to? Please enlighten us. How about an answer to where yiu live? Afraid? I'm not as my screen name tells all.

Excellent post!

[Swampman]

If you believed in Jesus, you'd support his people.  That's the only reason the US exist in the first place.

[FourBee]

The Judge himself  is watching what is said against His people Israel.   Yes; as bad as Israel has
acted throughout history, they are still His.   He will judge Israel, and He doesn't need the rest of the
world to guide Him in how to do it.   Any man who is an enemy to Israel, is an enemy to God, and they will be held accountable for their words.  Slice it up any way you like, but in the END The Judge is going to have the final say.  

He has given us every opportunity to recognise Him and repent of our sins.   His greatest deed was to give us His Only Begotten Son to be sacrificed for our SINS, that~ by that sole act of love towards the world, if we merely believe on him we shall be saved,  but if we refuse and rebel, our blood is required of us.     What a shame to waste such a precious gift freely given to us.   When it's all said and done, and all voices have been silenced - - Will you hear - - - "Welcome home my good and faithful servant"?, or  "Depart from me ye workers of iniquity, - I never knew you " ?   It's a choice we all should  make 'Now'.   Tomorrow may be to late.

[ironglow]

  Amen!..fourbee

[aimhard]

Amen

The Judge himself  is watching what is said against His people Israel.   Yes; as bad as Israel has
acted throughout history, they are still His.   He will judge Israel, and He doesn't need the rest of the
world to guide Him in how to do it.   Any man who is an enemy to Israel, is an enemy to God, and they will be held accountable for their words.  Slice it up any way you like, but in the END The Judge is going to have the final say.  

He has given us every opportunity to recognise Him and repent of our sins.   His greatest deed was to give us His Only Begotten Son to be sacrificed for our SINS, that~ by that sole act of love towards the world, if we merely believe on him we shall be saved,  but if we refuse and rebel, our blood is required of us.     What a shame to waste such a precious gift freely given to us.   When it's all said and done, and all voices have been silenced - - Will you hear - - - "Welcome home my good and faithful servant"?, or  "Depart from me ye workers of iniquity, - I never knew you " ?   It's a choice we all should  make 'Now'.   Tomorrow may be to late.

Amen

[billy_56081]

Hey TM I heard a neo Nazi on TV spewing that same crap about false Jews and lost tribes. Was that you?

[ironglow]

  TM says;
Spoken like a true zionist swampie. You should try taking a little adult responsibility once in a while and not putting all the burden on God...!

Billie,,,My alligence is to the USA and the Truth thru Jesus in the New Covenant. I do not support your NWO, your zioNazi-thugs, your perpetual wars, your religious rivalry and idealogical musings,  or your constant deceptions.

    TM;
       You have really aroused my curiosity...
  I shall ask you much the same question I asked a person who contacted me by personal message, and in the same way. In a sincere effort to be entirely fair, I shall give my Christian background first :
 
    I was saved later in life (age 38), but truly "hit the ground running"..  Grounded in Baptist theology, studied intensely and taught Senior man's Bible study for several years. Studied with and recieved degree from Faith Bible Theo Seminary (in the Florida panhandle), Chairman of deacon board for years, chairman, board of education of Baptist Christian school (K-12) several years also Sunday School supervisor at same time, meanwhile filling pulpit during absences of the pastor.
  Having moved, I now attend a non-denominational Christian Church and hold similar duties including pulpit supply, as far as this smaller church body involves.
  I give my background, simply to be fair and above board while I ask you to do the same. I ask for your credentials/experience because you claim Christ, even though your Christian doctrine seems to me (and others I'm sure) foreign to any I have met.

  So now let's level, I've given you deep info on my background..please reciprocate. Surely with a sincere explanation of your Christian roots, the guys here could relate better..now's the time to...man up!  
  

[ms]

This needs to be locked. 

[ironglow]

ms
  Yopu ask for this to be locked. The discussion involves religious questions..at MOST it should be moved only...if that !

[rio grande]

The Judge himself  is watching what is said against His people Israel.   Yes; as bad as Israel has
acted throughout history, they are still His.   He will judge Israel, and He doesn't need the rest of the
world to guide Him in how to do it.   Any man who is an enemy to Israel, is an enemy to God, and they will be held accountable for their words.  Slice it up any way you like, but in the END The Judge is going to have the final say.  

He has given us every opportunity to recognise Him and repent of our sins.   His greatest deed was to give us His Only Begotten Son to be sacrificed for our SINS, that~ by that sole act of love towards the world, if we merely believe on him we shall be saved,  but if we refuse and rebel, our blood is required of us.     What a shame to waste such a precious gift freely given to us.   When it's all said and done, and all voices have been silenced - - Will you hear - - - "Welcome home my good and faithful servant"?, or  "Depart from me ye workers of iniquity, - I never knew you " ?   It's a choice we all should  make 'Now'.   Tomorrow may be to late.

Israel, right or wrong, just or wicked, no matter what - is not Christianity.
Of course God will judge Israel, as He will judge us all.  Let us hope He does not find us silent in the presence of injustice and crime.

There is a new covenant.
Luke 20:9-19

[9] He went on to tell the people this parable: "A man planted a vineyard, rented it to some farmers and went away for a long time. [10] At harvest time he sent a servant to the tenants so they would give him some of the fruit of the vineyard. But the tenants beat him and sent him away empty-handed. [11] He sent another servant, but that one also they beat and treated shamefully and sent away empty-handed. [12] He sent still a third, and they wounded him and threw him out.

[13] "Then the owner of the vineyard said, 'What shall I do? I will send my son, whom I love; perhaps they will respect him.'

[14] "But when the tenants saw him, they talked the matter over. 'This is the heir,' they said. 'Let's kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.' [15] So they threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.

"What then will the owner of the vineyard do to them? [16] He will come and kill those tenants and give the vineyard to others."

When the people heard this, they said, "May this never be!"

[17] Jesus looked directly at them and asked, "Then what is the meaning of that which is written:

" 'The stone the builders rejected
has become the capstone'?
[18] Everyone who falls on that stone will be broken to pieces,
but he on whom it falls will be crushed."
[19] The teachers of the law and the chief priests looked for a way to arrest him immediately, because they knew he had spoken this parable against them. But they were afraid of the people.

[ms]

Stop with the bible talk and personal attacks.

[billy_56081]

IG I guess I can't see how one can speak of Irael and not speak of god. As the Iraelites are Gods chosen people. I would think that "around the pot bellied stove" people would speak of God. I think soe fear that God is even mentioned. I have no fear of God.

Irael will be victorious with or without the US involving itself. I am for a hands off approach with Israel and Iran.

[S.S.]

I think this is the only thread that I have actually read every post in
since I joined Graybeards. Leaving out all religous ideals,
Israel is the ONLY ally we have in that part of the world. Where Israel
keeps screwing up is that they allow world opinion to muzzle them.
If they ever take off the gloves as fight for real, they will slaughter
all of their arab neighbors with no problem. And I would not envy
any of our pilots going up against the pilots of Israel. Do not for a
moment under-estimate their weapons capabilities. They have what
we have and then some.

[rio grande]

I think this is the only thread that I have actually read every post in
since I joined Graybeards. Leaving out all religous ideals,
Israel is the ONLY ally we have in that part of the world. Where Israel
keeps screwing up is that they allow world opinion to muzzle them.
If they ever take off the gloves as fight for real, they will slaughter
all of their arab neighbors with no problem. And I would not envy
any of our pilots going up against the pilots of Israel. Do not for a
moment under-estimate their weapons capabilities. They have what
we have and then some.

That's 'cause they stole it from us! (Pollard, etc.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard

Or it was 'given' to them by corrupt politicians.
Actually, without US aid, which amounts to billion$, Israel would cease to function.

http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/245-2008-november/3845-congress-watch-a-conservative-estimate-of-total-direct-us-aid-to-israel-almost-114-billion.html

From http://www.angelfire.com/rnb//y/israel.htm
Excerpt below is from the above CRS (Congressional research Service) report. Emphasis added.
"Israel is not economically self-sufficient, and relies on foreign assistance and borrowing to maintain its economy. Since 1985, the United States has provided $3 billion in grants annually to Israel. Since 1976, Israel has been the largest annual recipient of U.S. foreign assistance, and is the largest cumulative recipient since World War II. In addition to U.S. assistance, it is estimated that Israel receives about $1 billion annually through philanthropy, an equal amount through short- and long- term commercial loans, and around $1 billion in Israel Bonds proceeds."

[FourBee]

Hey Rio:  

That's 'cause they stole it from us! (Pollard, etc.)

That reminds me of the old saying " All's fair in love and war "  

[Swampman]

I'm all for giving them anything they want.  It's the best place to test our hardware and they develop all kinds of stuff for us.  Since they are the only nation left with the balls to do what needs to be done, we need them worse than they need us.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/world/iraq/2003-03-24-israel-tech_x.htm

http://www.israel21c.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1529&catid=56:technology&Itemid=62


The conformal fuel tanks which are used on our F-15s & F-16s are manufactured by Israel Aircraft Industries.  My son likes them.

[powderman]

If you believed in Jesus, you'd support his people.  That's the only reason the US exist in the first place.

YEP. tm has NEVER said a good word about America, or Gods chosen ones. The only allegience I've seen from him is to his Godless friends, certainly not America. POWDERMAN.