Would you fight and die for your gun rights?

[Singleshotsam]

For those who so fear what will happen to their family after they are dead from defending the US Constitution I say to you that clearly you just do not understand what's going to happen to them anyway with or without you alive if they get our guns.

That, GB is the whole thing in a nutshell.  I'll even take it a step further in saying that if you are too scared to die defending your family from facists, then maybe you aren't as right with the good Lord as you should be.  I do not fear death.  It will unpleasent for certain, but I know that once the pain is gone, I'll forever have life in heaven. 

[slim rem 7]

 oh heck fellas lets admit it.. we are a bit soft.. who wouldnt be we ..lot of us lived thru the golden years ..tv entertainment [an conditioned programing of our minds,,of late] air condition .. 8 hrs a day ..the expectation.. no,, i know most probably like me,, worked a lot more hrs. than that.. my bodies calling for
an settle up of that now..
 but we are still the seed of these great men.. just reach you best self ,in defending liberty..no telling what our potential is.. like churchill [i think] said.. you never ever,ever ever quit.. quoted improperly probably ..but you get the idea. slim

[epanzella]

I totally understand the family thing epanzella, and trying to protect them.  My wife would be a loose cannon if people tried barging in though,  especially if they had their boots on and she just got done shampooing the carpet!  They would have to kill her.     I might as well start shooting and keep it up as long as I can.  Before she kills them all by herself.  

Seriously, everyone is different, some of us have kids, I don't have any home, it's just me and the wife and lot's different than having a bunch of kids all different ages in the house.  Something tells me though if it gets bad enough where they come into your house they would also hurt the family as well no matter what you did, they have that choice regardless.  If criminals got into your house with your family you'd have to fight them,  I don't see any difference if the criminals have some kind of patches or badges.  Same deal happens if you give up, it's up to them how bad your family gets hurt.  That's a tough deal with family in the house, and I can certainly understand wanting your family to be safe.  Nothing pulls your heart strings like your kids and wife.

Singleshotsam.....your not alone....I have three young men,  20, 21, 24.....they are like you.  I have also spent some time watching young people make it through basic training the last couple of years, one of my own and some of his friends, sure did see lot's of young people with sand at those places.  Pants weren't fallin off either. 

I mentioned in my post that it's hard to say what I would do without more details. I took this poll to mean the govt outlaws guns and then  the police come to my house to collect mine. Would I be willing to kill a police officer to keep my guns? Would I be willing to shoot it out with a SWAT team to keep my guns? When you say YES to this poll that is the bandwagon you're jumping on. That is why my answer is no. Digging in your heels and being labeled an extremist "gun nut" that the police were forced to put down will not do you, your family or even your cause much good. The best way to defeat any political agenda is to be perceived as mainstream. Allowing the media to paint you as an militant extremist or terrorist will just make it that much easier for them to trivialize your sacrifice. Would I fight legally to overturn a gun ban every day untill my last breath? ABSOLUTELY. Would I fight to the death with guns, sticks or rocks to protect my family? ABSOLUTELY. Like any decision involving a complex and fluid situation, the devil is in the details. This poll shines the harsh light of reality on the importance of making sure that day never comes. Join the NRA and have your congressmen on speed dial.
Ed Panzella   

[bubba]

ahh another realist. That was exactly how I interpreted the poll.  As I have stated, by the time they come to get the guns, it is too late.  We need to fight NOW not then. By making threats to shoot anyone coming to get your guns, you fuel the fire for the opposition and make us look as they want to portray us.  I understand this is an emotional subject close to all of our hearts, but there is more than one way to skin a cat. So who wants to organize now and stand with me to battle this while we have a chance.  I have no plan or clue, but it is time to get this thing rolling before it is too late. feel free to email me so we can start a network and communicate much more privately.  Any and all welcome.  I guess the question is not would you fight and die for your gun rights?  I think it sould be Will you fight and die for your gun rights NOW? 

[Singleshotsam]

Gentlemen.  The question reads "Would you fight and die for your gun RIGHTS?"

Rights is what the question of this poll reads.  Taking it a step further the same applies to our Bill of Rights.  This question does not soley read "Would you kill the cop coming to get your guns" but "Would you fight and die to protect your god given rights?"

I agree that in order to preserve these rights, we must remind our represenatives that they do not tell us what to do.  They are in office doing their job by representing our wishes.  I have the email and contact information to all my representatives saved on my contact list on my email and on my cell phone. You better believe that when something happens that I don't like that they hear from me and hear my words that should they not prevent what is happening that I will make it my mission to see them replaced by somebody who will do the job of representing me.  Consequently when they do something right they hear from me as well.  I am an active member of my local Friends of the NRA.  I firmly believe and have previously stated in this thread that I care deeply about protecting my rights before they are stripped from me.

The word FIGHT in this question should not be interpreted as a jump physical violence, but rather a political fight first, then physical violence second.  Violence is never the first course of action but rather a last resort.  That being said, if you are saying you will not take up any fight to protect your rights, and furthermore, if you are not willing to lay down your life to protect your rights, your children's rights, the rights of your grandchildren, mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers and perfect strangers, to live free and un-oppressed then you my friends are cowards not deserving of the title "American".

[LONGTOM]

I am sure glad our forefathers didn't take that position when the british came over in 1776!
They tried talking first and it didn't work, so when they were given this very same question we all know what their answer was!
We are still in the talking stage but the deck seems to be stacked against us.
They already call us extremist "gun nut" and most have never did a thing to be called that or to be included with those that trully are.

Change the words gun rights for any other GOD given right.
Would you still feel the same way?
It could just as easily be they are taking your home/land, or maybe your money/savings.
Would you just give those to them also?

I guess some would but I am not one of them!

I am not trying to make any enemys on here as each has their own beliefs but I really find it hard to beleave that some would give up so easy when the time comes.

Remember, we are not talking right this minute but WHEN THE TIME COMES.


LONGTOM

[bubba]

so why wait until the time comes? Lets organize now to start pressuring the political people to thwart this now. If that doesnt work then we up the ante.  But I guess it is easy to sit here and say lets shoot them when they show up, but not doing much now to stop this before it gets to that point.  I made an offer to start at least making plans and putting our heads together.  COme on guys and gals Now is the time. Proactive rather than reactive. 

[SHOOTALL]

An old gunsmith once said to a group at a shooting match- he was ask about govt. passing laws and taking guns , he resopnded "if every time someone comes for one you give them the ammo first one shot at a time we can see if there are more of them that want to take um or more that want to keep um . And that will be the finial vote on the subject !"
He may have had a point !

[SHOOTALL]

Bubba in the past most seemed to feel law was on the side of the gun rights crowd and they didn't want to risk change in the law . Besides many groups made money on the subject . Think about it if it was passed that we could have them and that was finial how many lawyers that work for either side of the issue would be out of a job ?
That fact alone may be what keeps our guns in our hands , like drugs it keeps alot of folks flush with $$$$$$$$$$

[epanzella]

Some of you guys are using testosterone instead of brains. Think about the possible senarios when you're doing all this shooting and dying. Who are you fighting? It might be a state trooper, or a SWAT team, or even a local cop you went to high school with. Beat one  cop you'll face 20, beat them and you'll face 200. Do you think the news will show your picture and say you were a hero dying for the cause, or will they show some cops widow and 6 kids, making you the poster boy for the gun ban. A couple of incidents like that, and the rank and file American will be convinced that the ban was a necessary evil when they read about domestic terrorists, right wing extremists and the darling of the MSM, "seized in the raid was a cashe of illegal arms and over 1000 rounds of ammunition". You know, the 2 bricks of 22's you got on sale at Walmart and half a box of 30-06's. When that day comes, it's all over. This a modern war requiring modern tactics. The enemy will use the tide of public opinion against us and any misplaced bravado, not matter how well intentioned, will only make the slope back to freedom that much steeper. The best defense is to choke off gun control efforts now, but if that fateful day ever comes we'll have to present a united front and fight smarter than ever before. Belittling the people who are commited to winning this fight and calling them cowards is not the way to win.
To paraphrase George S Patton, "You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by getting your enemy to die for his country". These words never rang truer than they do today.     

[Heather]

I think the young people today have no real moral compass, and will follow whoever will "give" them the most.  The WWII generation is dying off, and the young don't have the moral sense of fighting for what is right. 

I beg to differ. I'm 25 years old with a wife, a son and a daughter due any day.  I was raised in a god fearing household where I respected my father and my mother and went to church when she did.  How dare you question my moral compass Dixiedude. 

You claim that we will follow whoever will give us the most?  What the hell have you been doing all your life?  Yes, its a shame that "the greatest generation" is dying off.  They were a breed that came through the great depression, and saw things no other human should have ever witnessed.  They command my utmost respect. 

Your last claim that we (I) "the younger generation" have no moral sense of fighting for what is right?  What did you do in your lifetime Dixiedude?  I stay in constant contact w/ my Represenatives.  When something I don't like happens they know!  I have said I will fight and DIE for my rights to defend MY family, your family and the families of those to cowardly to do it themselves.  I will ask for no thanks if the time comes and should I die in the process my son can look at my grave (if i'm allowed one) and know that his Daddy died for a cause bigger than his own selfish fears. 

Heather, another young person in this forum feels the same way and you know what else we think?  We both feel that we have inherited a HUGE mess to fix so that it will not be the burden of OUR children!  Yeah, there are a lot of young people that will follow the ones that offer the most, but guess what... they learned it from those were their elders.

I take your "younger generation" commets w/ extreme insult.

Thank you Sam!  I was going to respond to that, but you beat me to it.  I couldn't have said it better myself!

Heather

[SHOOTALL]

If the Kids today suck at being good citizens its because us old folks sucked at raising them ! If the school is blamed then why didn't we fix it ? if its Govt. why didn't we fix it ?
Call it like it is .

[bubba]

it is govt that wants to take our guns too.  Why arent we fixing that. 

[Singleshotsam]

Bubba, What are YOU doing to stop it?  Your throwing the word "WE" around like you have a mouse in your pocket!  I've already stated that I'm active in promoting the NRA and teaching the fundamentals of shooting to children and teenagers.  Support the NRA, or GoA.  I write my representatives or call their offices.  I can write all the letters I want but in the end, If I remain un-supported, or too many of you tight lips tell yourself that your writing a letter wont make a difference, then we will fail. 

The time for setting quiet and saying "It's not my problem" is over.  That attitude is why our country is in such a piss poor condition.  Saying to yourself that you don't get involved in politics is saying that you dont give a piss about your nation. 

"Think about the possible senarios when you're doing all this shooting and dying. Who are you fighting? It might be a state trooper, or a SWAT team, or even a local cop you went to high school with. Beat one  cop you'll face 20, beat them and you'll face 200. "

When the times comes you'll know your enemy by sight.  State trooper, SWAT, local cop whoever... By that time they will have had their chance to make their decision and choose their side.  This will be another war of friends and brothers.  Try as you might, there will be no more fence riding epanzella. 

Do you think the news will show your picture and say you were a hero dying for the cause, or will they show some cops widow and 6 kids, making you the poster boy for the gun ban. A couple of incidents like that, and the rank and file American will be convinced that the ban was a necessary evil when they read about domestic terrorists, right wing extremists and the darling of the MSM

When was the last time the news gave you the true, unbiased story?  Were already labeled domestic terroriest and right wing extremest!  That was the whole battle we just fought in Missouri.  We won that fight by politics friend.  We won that battle by bitching to everybody that would listen and contacting Rush, Glenn Beck, Michael Savage, The local news channel, our local newspapers and threw a FIT!  We were outraged and let it be known.  Other people from other states sent letters, made calls. 

The MIAC report was retracted, then recalled totaly because people who lived in MO and a TON of people outside MO came down on our state government like a ton of bricks.  2 weeks later DHS printed a similar report.  The fight rages on...  Epanzella, you need to pay attention more friend.

The best defense is to choke off gun control efforts now, but if that fateful day ever comes we'll have to present a united front and fight smarter than ever before.

What do you think this is about Epan?  Were working on a unified front.  Did you go to a Teaparty?  I did!  Or were you one of the ones that was "too busy" to get out and make a stand?  I worked 10 hours the day of our tea party and still made it to attend.  It was an honor to be part of something so historical.   

To paraphrase George S Patton, "You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by getting your enemy to die for his country". These words never rang truer than they do today.  

   

Belittling the people who are commited to winning this fight and calling them cowards is not the way to win.

George S Patton once slapped the crap out of a soldier in an aid station who was acting cowardly.  He told the young man that his cowardly presense defiled the honor and sancitiy of a place of warriors.  It's funny that you complain about me calling people cowards and then go on to quote a General who physically repremeanded his own soldier for that very act.  Sometimes showing people how they are acting gives them the boot and drive to do something.  Just because I'm not PC about it doesn't mean my meathod's are wrong.

[bubba]

Well let's see I have have been a lifer in the NRA for over 15 years which honestly if I were not a lifer I would not renew as it is a joke.  I teach firearm safety for the state of NY and have been doing that for over 20 years certifying I would easily say 1500 people which is all volunteer by the way.  I have taken any young person out to shoot that has shown an interest as well as taken them hunting.  I am a member of the patriot guard riders who ride at fallen military soldiers funerals to show respect and keep the family members sheltered from idiots. I am in regular contact with my local state and national representatives to let them know how I feel about certain gun laws they are trying to enact and if they do so, I make sure everyone possible knows about it so they can vote against them the next election.  I just find it unusual that almost everyone will sit here and say they are ready to fight to the death, but no one will band together to be procative so it does not come to that.  When I say WE, I simply mean all gun owners and sportspeople . If you prefer to be excluded from that, by all means feel excluded. I did not mean to include you in anything that makes you uncomfortable.  Any other questions?

oops I almost forgot, I am a trustee on the board of my local fish and game club and the representative at our county federation group, which is a part or our state federation which has regular meeting with our stste dec reps to keep things in check.  I was a part pof organizing an annual youth pheasant hunt for 12-15 year olds where a ocal pheasant raiser donates birds and locals bering their dogs and theh county federation brings guns shells and even lunch all free of charge for the participants.  We do local seminars at 4h clubs and boy scout troops for safety.  I would say I do my part and hope othere do the same. 

[LONGTOM]

so why wait until the time comes?

Why do you keep trying to hijack this thread?

I may be mistaken on that but I thought the topic is
Would you fight and die for your gun rights?

It's not about what you will or will not do before they come for them.
We all would prefer not to have to fight and will do all that is possible to avoid that.
No one has said shoot them in the back or shoot them at night before the true fight begins.
No one said let's start murdering them before they come for us.
This thread is about after the talking is done and THEY ARE comming after your guns!
THEN Would you fight and die for your gun rights?
When they come the talking is done.
It's over as far as your rights go.
They are there to kick in your door and take your poperity with out compensation.
Now "Would you fight and die for your gun rights?"

Now if you want to start another thread about what you would do to keep them from comming after your guns, or how to fight with words instead of violence then we could all post on that one also.

This one is about WHEN THEY COME, not BEFORE THEY COME!!!

LONGTOM

[bubba]

I am not trying to hijack anything. I am quite capable of starting a new thread if I wanted to. Yup I got the technology.  I simply answered a question as to what I was doing to help insure my rights are kept intact. I love it when a person with a differing opinion keeps getting tore apart no matter what they say. I get questioned as to what I am doing, I answer the question then get chastised for answering it.  Guys like you will be sure to do all they can to be sure we lose our rights.  If you really look at the posts, we are on the same side.  But you prefer to wear the blinders and see nothing but your own views and attack anyone who doesnt agree with what you say.  Oh well if that tactic works for you have at it.  Plus as stated I would think being proactive rather then reactive will work so muh better, but keep your head buried in the sand and lock and load.  If yo uhave a presonal beef with me I would gladly discuss it with you in pm or email.  Otherwise I must request you stop your personal digs at me to make yourself feel better.  Thank you

[Dixie Dude]

I'm sorry if I offended some of you younger folks who are really trying to do what is right.  It has just been my experience and looking at the results of the last election which causes me to pause at the younger generation.  Those under 40 went for Obama.  Those over 40 went for McCain.  Younger kids were raised on video games, internet, and cable TV.  They were not taught shooting, fishing, gardening, or any other self reliant means of life.  I know it is the older generations fault for this. However, we homeschooled our children, worked for various candidates who expressed our values.  I took my kids to church.  We gave up TV for over 10 years.  I am a member of the NRA.  I have worked to get others to join.  Worked to get conservatives to vote.  I taught my kids to shoot, hunt, and fish.  I'm working on my grandkids now.  However, in talking with my kids friends, seeing their work ethic, and what they were taught or not taught in school really scares me.  Most kids don't know or haven't read the constitution.  Look at what happened when a lot of these kids overbought homes and walked away.  Just overservation, not ALL young people, but at least 60% of them think the government can solve all the problems. 

[Oldshooter]

One of my most favorite movies is High Noon! Gary Cooper plays the lead!

To make a long story short, he's asking for help from his friends and people in the town to face some badguys that are coming in on the noon Train.

Some say they wanna, but cant.
Some say hell no!
Some make excuses and beg off.
His wife even says she is leaving cause he is gonna face em!

Course he does and he beats the odds.

Now those folk that wouldn't , couldn't were not bad people, they were either scared or as in the case of some here just not ready to put their life on the line to help save their town.

I dont find fault with that at all. In fact, I can respect their views, and appreciate where they are coming from. I respect someone who says now that they are not sure, or will not, more than someone who blusters now and when the SHTF S their pants and runs like a shot cat or just dont show up!

Now Bubba wants to do something right now so maybe we wont have to do something later that will be no turning back from.
I say I will fight for my and my family's rights to keep and bear arms. but I will also do something now if that can be done. To say you will fight means you know you will die. No two ways about it!
To fight will mean you will be bucking the system and that wont be easy and will most certainly be ugly.
Now this is all hypothetical but it is some thing to think about.

Bubba I will put myself at your disposal. tell me what I can do to help you in this struggle.
And guys and girls, We've heard that the NRA is feeble at best and self serving at worst. so get off of your behinds and pitch in maybe as a group(someone tell me what our numbers are) we can make a difference, and maybe push wont come to shove!
But we can always take the other route if need be.

Mostly we need not turn on ourselves here. The snake is not a threat if it bites itself in spite!

 

[LONGTOM]

bubba I think you are wrong.
You started this on page 1 reply # 5 - #14 - #20 -# 35- #43 -#46 - #48 - #53 - #56 - #59 - #68.

I didn't even come in till page #4 reply #93 and then it did not address you until reply #113.

So I think you stated your position long before you could blame me.


LONGTOM

[bubba]

I am not blaming you for anything and I am not going to get into a personal pi%%Ing match with you either.  From my first post, you have been riding me like a saddle pony trying to push me into a response and I wont play sorry,that I wont do.  That way I am not made to be the bad guy again.  So have a nice day and if you need help WHEN they show, let me know cuz I will be there.   Good luck.   

[Dee]

I'm sorry if I offended some of you younger folks who are really trying to do what is right.  It has just been my experience and looking at the results of the last election which causes me to pause at the younger generation.  Those under 40 went for Obama.  Those over 40 went for McCain.  Younger kids were raised on video games, internet, and cable TV.  They were not taught shooting, fishing, gardening, or any other self reliant means of life.  I know it is the older generations fault for this. However, we homeschooled our children, worked for various candidates who expressed our values.  I took my kids to church.  We gave up TV for over 10 years.  I am a member of the NRA.  I have worked to get others to join.  Worked to get conservatives to vote.  I taught my kids to shoot, hunt, and fish.  I'm working on my grandkids now.  However, in talking with my kids friends, seeing their work ethic, and what they were taught or not taught in school really scares me.  Most kids don't know or haven't read the constitution.  Look at what happened when a lot of these kids overbought homes and walked away.  Just overservation, not ALL young people, but at least 60% of them think the government can solve all the problems. 

It's worse than that Dixie. I have neighbors OVER 70, that voted for Obama, and love him. As for as over 40 going McCain. I am way over 40 and I didn't vote for the sold out sob. I voted independent in Texas, but most of Texas voted for the lessor of two evils sell out McCain.

[Singleshotsam]

I voted for McCain and he dropped out before my State was counted the sorry sack of crap...  Pissed me off to no end.

[LONGTOM]

I am not blaming you for anything and I am not going to get into a personal pi%%Ing match with you either.  From my first post, you have been riding me like a saddle pony trying to push me into a response and I wont play sorry,that I wont do.  That way I am not made to be the bad guy again.  So have a nice day and if you need help WHEN they show, let me know cuz I will be there.   Good luck.   

Where the heck do you get off making such a statement?
My first address of you was on page 4 with a simple question that at the time I thought you answered and I acknowledged you for that.
I did not address you again untill 1/2 way down page 6 and that wasn't about you personaly but about what the topic of this thread was about, and that is when YOU my friend took offence!
I didn't address you again untill this page and it is clear you are the one trying to start something.
I did not try to twist your words or call you any names.
I did try to show that this thread is not about what you would or would not do to stop them before they come but what you would do when they come.

I was not bothered by what you have said untill your last reply.
All you are worried about is that you are

made to be the bad guy again.

You can twist that anyway you like but I think everyone knows where we stand on this subject.


LONGTOM

[DDZ]

I think that all of us, that have been posting on this topic, is doing everything they can to stop the infringements on our 2nd amendment rights. It does all start at the voting booth, but that dosn't seem to have been working very well. Where are the rest of the 80,000,000 gun owners in this country? Why haven't they joined the fight to stop the infringements by our government, that is afraid of us because we own firearms? We call our congressmen to voice our concerns. Does this work? It dosn't seem to very much. I think you could call one of the Fascists in congress untill you were blue in the face and it wouldn't do any good at all. The only thing that works is vote them out.

A statement Dee made earlier about spoiled Americans, that can't muster the will to fight for what is right, kind of hit the nail on the head. Most Americans are so full of the good life that freedom has bought them, that they don't have a clue what it would be like, without freedom. Or what it would be like to live under tyranny. Like the old saying goes "you don't know what you got till you don't have it anymore"  These same people, seem to not have a clue either what it took to have the freedom they have. So many people are so caught up in thier "stuff" they own, or how much money they can aquire, they are oblivious to what is going on around them. They go to the voting booth to vote thier pocketbook, and don't care, or know enough to care, if the person they are voting for is going to stand firm for thier freedom.  If the time does come to fight for our freedom, I don't think your stuff, and your money will be worth much. When looking at the big picture, our time on earth is the blink of an eye. I believe you need to take care of things that matter when we are here. I haven't seen a casket yet that will hold much "stuff."

Thanks to all of you that have been helping in any way to halt the infringements on our 2nd amendment rights. Our power is in numbers and we need as many as posible on our side.
 If the time does come to fight for the freedom I, my family, and all Americans enjoy. I would be proud to fight along side any of you, and any American that wants to keep this freedom. I'm still very proud to be an American, and I want to keep it that way.  I'm also very thankful for every veteran that fought to retain my freedom. I'm very indebted to these Americans. For those that don't know if they will fight if the time comes. Just think about what freedom means to you, and what it cost many fellow Americans and Patroits, for you to have this thing you call freedom.   After all freedom priceless.

[epanzella]

Bubba, What are YOU doing to stop it?  Your throwing the word "WE" around like you have a mouse in your pocket!  I've already stated that I'm active in promoting the NRA and teaching the fundamentals of shooting to children and teenagers.  Support the NRA, or GoA.  I write my representatives or call their offices.  I can write all the letters I want but in the end, If I remain un-supported, or too many of you tight lips tell yourself that your writing a letter wont make a difference, then we will fail. 

The time for setting quiet and saying "It's not my problem" is over.  That attitude is why our country is in such a piss poor condition.  Saying to yourself that you don't get involved in politics is saying that you dont give a piss about your nation. 

"Think about the possible senarios when you're doing all this shooting and dying. Who are you fighting? It might be a state trooper, or a SWAT team, or even a local cop you went to high school with. Beat one  cop you'll face 20, beat them and you'll face 200. "

When the times comes you'll know your enemy by sight.  State trooper, SWAT, local cop whoever... By that time they will have had their chance to make their decision and choose their side.  This will be another war of friends and brothers.  Try as you might, there will be no more fence riding epanzella. 

Do you think the news will show your picture and say you were a hero dying for the cause, or will they show some cops widow and 6 kids, making you the poster boy for the gun ban. A couple of incidents like that, and the rank and file American will be convinced that the ban was a necessary evil when they read about domestic terrorists, right wing extremists and the darling of the MSM

When was the last time the news gave you the true, unbiased story?  Were already labeled domestic terroriest and right wing extremest!  That was the whole battle we just fought in Missouri.  We won that fight by politics friend.  We won that battle by bitching to everybody that would listen and contacting Rush, Glenn Beck, Michael Savage, The local news channel, our local newspapers and threw a FIT!  We were outraged and let it be known.  Other people from other states sent letters, made calls. 

The MIAC report was retracted, then recalled totaly because people who lived in MO and a TON of people outside MO came down on our state government like a ton of bricks.  2 weeks later DHS printed a similar report.  The fight rages on...  Epanzella, you need to pay attention more friend.

The best defense is to choke off gun control efforts now, but if that fateful day ever comes we'll have to present a united front and fight smarter than ever before.

What do you think this is about Epan?  Were working on a unified front.  Did you go to a Teaparty?  I did!  Or were you one of the ones that was "too busy" to get out and make a stand?  I worked 10 hours the day of our tea party and still made it to attend.  It was an honor to be part of something so historical.   

To paraphrase George S Patton, "You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by getting your enemy to die for his country". These words never rang truer than they do today.  

   

Belittling the people who are commited to winning this fight and calling them cowards is not the way to win.

George S Patton once slapped the crap out of a soldier in an aid station who was acting cowardly.  He told the young man that his cowardly presense defiled the honor and sancitiy of a place of warriors.  It's funny that you complain about me calling people cowards and then go on to quote a General who physically repremeanded his own soldier for that very act.  Sometimes showing people how they are acting gives them the boot and drive to do something.  Just because I'm not PC about it doesn't mean my meathod's are wrong.

I spent all day at the tea party in Hartford, Ct, along with the microstamp hearings, assault weapon hearings and just about any gun or hunting related hearings in Ct in the last 15 years. I'm not trying to pick a fight with you but I'm trying every which way to help you understand what works for us and what helps our enemies. The left is trying to paint us as  knuckle-dragging chest-pounding right wing extremists and you're making it easy for them. We just had a left wing, black, lying nerd beat a war hero as POTUS. Doesn't that tell you anything?
  Try to see yourself as others see you. I have been an NRA member, shooter, reloader, hunter, and concealed carry permit holder for 39 years. Although I didn't have to fire a shot, being armed twice saved me from getting robbed or worse. I'm hardly ever more than 20 ft from a loaded gun.  Even with a backround like that, your posts make you seem radical to ME, so you can imagine how John Q public would percieve you, having never shot or even held a gun. How hard would it be for some left wing dirtbag to convince John Q that taking guns away from you is a necessary evil. George Patton once slapped a soldier but shortly after, having realized how that one slap was preventing him from doing his job, said he wished he had kissed the SOB. Even a grizled old soldier like Patton could see that the old ways were no longer the way to win.

[Singleshotsam]

I agree with much you said in that last post Epanzella.  Personally when dealing w/ people who are not used to guns, I take a much much different approach to making them see thing the way I do.  I'm still not PC about it, but the last thing I want to do is scare away a potential shooter.  Everybody I know see's me for who I am.  I don't lie, cheat or steal and I always voice my true opinions.  Ask me what I think and i'll tell you.  It may not always be what somebody wants to hear but thats just the way it is.  I really don't care what others think about me. 

When I'm around those that understand guns and their rights is when I say it how I think it should be said.  I will stand toe to toe with somebody in a discussion of my rights.  If i find out that anyone doesn't believe their rights are worth giving everything (even a non-shooter) then I get defensive.  But then again, look where tolorance has gotten us... 39 years of tolerance you your part may have been fine to prevent conflicts but right now a little conflict is what we need.

I too am getting my CC permit and wll always be armed to help protect myself, and anyone else that may be threatened.  I'm glad that your CC has helped save you from some bad events, and just re-enforces how I feel about getting mine.

I'll give you the upper hand on the Patton comment b/c I forgot that he had said that... my bad. 

Tolerance is a lot of what has gotten this nation into the mess we are in.  Not that we should all go extremest rambo on people, but I think that it's time we get un-scared of what people think about our beliefs and let it be known how we feel.

[epanzella]

I agree with much you said in that last post Epanzella.  Personally when dealing w/ people who are not used to guns, I take a much much different approach to making them see thing the way I do.  I'm still not PC about it, but the last thing I want to do is scare away a potential shooter.  Everybody I know see's me for who I am.  I don't lie, cheat or steal and I always voice my true opinions.  Ask me what I think and i'll tell you.  It may not always be what somebody wants to hear but thats just the way it is.  I really don't care what others think about me. 

When I'm around those that understand guns and their rights is when I say it how I think it should be said.  I will stand toe to toe with somebody in a discussion of my rights.  If i find out that anyone doesn't believe their rights are worth giving everything (even a non-shooter) then I get defensive.  But then again, look where tolorance has gotten us... 39 years of tolerance you your part may have been fine to prevent conflicts but right now a little conflict is what we need.

I too am getting my CC permit and wll always be armed to help protect myself, and anyone else that may be threatened.  I'm glad that your CC has helped save you from some bad events, and just re-enforces how I feel about getting mine.

I'll give you the upper hand on the Patton comment b/c I forgot that he had said that... my bad. 

Tolerance is a lot of what has gotten this nation into the mess we are in.  Not that we should all go extremest rambo on people, but I think that it's time we get un-scared of what people think about our beliefs and let it be known how we feel.

Well, pal, we're all in this together and can never let our guard down. I think the right to bear arms is the right that sets us apart from the rest of the world and losing it would be a catastrophy. The gun grabbers love terms like "reasonable" and "compromise". Their idea of compromise is taking only some of our guns instead of all of them. (at least for now). I don't own any assault weapons but I fight any assault weapon ban vehemently. A govt that takes any gun away today can take any other gun tomorrow. The thing the politicians fear the most is main stream America, because that's where the votes are. Well, good luck to us.
Ed Panzella

[WolfTrap]

No, I will not lose my life for metal, plastic and wood.....silly to do so!
If there's was a direct fatal threat to my families and friends...I would!
If we were over taken by enemies out side my Country...I would!
If a law is legally past baring the ownership of firearms...I wouldn't!
If marshal law was past to corral all gun owners into detention camps....I would!
If the New Dixie States started a wave of Secession Hysteria that endangers my family and friends...watch out! 
Other than that.....waste of time worrying about something conjured up by Scare Tacticians.
WT
PS:Remember.....there's nothing in The Houses that resembles any type of firearm confiscation?

[LONGTOM]

I kind of feel that if it is to happen then "enemies out side my Country" will be the ones that come to do it.

I don't think the government would use our local boys.
Just to many friends around to be sure.
Outside forces would have no friends here.
That last line can be taken both ways!


LONGTOM