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Offline Scibaer

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35whelen no fire isssue
« on: August 05, 2007, 03:03:04 AM »
its been a while since i have been on here, with school keeping me busy. anyhow, i am just checking back to see if the no fire issue has been resolved with the 35 Whelen.
 has the greater minds here come up with some consensus on a fix ? is removing a few thousands off the hammer face acceptable ?
 glenn
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Offline MSP Ret

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Re: 35whelen no fire isssue
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2007, 03:44:19 AM »
From what I have read in other forums the problem with the .35 Whelens is the recent factory ammo. There have been problems reported with misfires with factory ammo in Remingtons and Rugers as well as our single shots IIRC. I have a 26" .35 Whelen RMEF barrel and it is great. To boil it down it appears it is not the gun(s) but the recent factory ammo that has been the culprit....<><....:)
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 35whelen no fire isssue
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2007, 05:33:33 AM »
It's really a moot point now, H&R discontinued them due to the problem, it's not longer made, please see the FAQs.

Tim
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Offline safetysheriff

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Re: 35whelen no fire isssue
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2007, 10:33:40 AM »
i've read from a reliable source that the very narrow shoulder on the '06 brass when it's been necked up to a .35 Whelen can create headspace problems, and potentially misfires.    it is important to get a decent 'crush' between the shoulder and the standing breech of the Handi' if one is to get a reliable ignition.   one of the tricks to doing this may be to partiallly neck-size the case in a FL' - sizing die.   it is a trick i would try if having a problem with a Whelen in a Handi'.

good luck,

ss'   
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Offline Scibaer

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Re: 35whelen no fire isssue
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2007, 12:14:00 PM »
well, NEF may nolonger produce that caliber, buts its hardly a non-issue as there are many of us that own them. i dont recall this no fire issue untill recently, meaning the 35 has been around for some time now, and only recently has there been this issue. and like MSP says, i believe it to be a ammo manufacture problem. i'm not in postion to reload my own, safetysherriff, but would be the best bet. so, short of that i'll try the federal ammo. they are the only two that i know of. my new box of remington ammo, fell short with 4 out of 10 failing to fire..
thanks for the responses gentlemen. as always i appreciate greatly the input. guess i find some other ammo for my rifle ..but i know reloading my own is on the horizion.
glenn
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 35whelen no fire isssue
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2007, 01:59:55 PM »
Bajabill exchanged his 35 Whelen barrel for another chambering, that's all H&R will do now apparently if you have trouble with em. He tried handloading for it without any luck, so it's not a just an issue with Remington ammo.  Conley makes a bunch of 35 Whelen loads as does Nosler and Doubletap.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,120347.msg1098402686.html#msg1098402686

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,121371.msg1098411063.html#msg1098411063

http://www.nosler.com/index.php?p=11&b=3/&s=109

http://www.midwayusa.com/ebrowse.exe/browse?TabID=3&Categoryid=9354&categorystring=653***690***
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Offline hellacatcher

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Re: 35whelen no fire isssue
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2007, 02:24:04 PM »
The funny thing is like I have said before I never have had a missfire in my Remmington 700 with either store bought or my home rolled 35 whellens. I am not sure I have heard of anyone else having the problem except in NEF's.
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Offline greg916

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Re: 35whelen no fire isssue
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2007, 02:19:02 AM »
i have seen 35 rem and 6mm t/cu fail to fire due to shoulders pushed back too far, thus reducing the firing pin blow. i think the same thing could happen in any cartridge with a small shoulder if you had a maximum spec chamber and minimum spec ammo .  :-\
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Offline Mac11700

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Re: 35whelen no fire isssue
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2007, 04:17:27 AM »


I believe it is a combination of problems...both the Remington ammo & the some of the rifles chambesr...If they are replacing the barrels...you can bet there is a problem with them...I've had a lot of trouble with not only their loaded ammo...but...their bulk brass as well..Try some of Conley's ammo & see how it does..You may be lucky...The 35 Whelen is too good a cartridge otherwise...

Mac
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: 35whelen no fire isssue
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2007, 12:53:55 PM »
My Handi .35 now shoots factory ammo fine, since H&R fixed it.  It also shoots my reloads with no problems.  Guess I got lucky and got a good one. 
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 35whelen no fire isssue
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2007, 12:56:38 PM »
Rog, yours is an older '96 RMEF with a 26" barrel, right? Not the same as the discontinued 22" 35 Whelen Handi, apples and oranges, unfortunately, that was then, this is now. ::)

Tim
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Offline hellacatcher

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Re: 35whelen no fire isssue
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2007, 01:07:59 PM »
Quick don't that take the ammo question out of the pitcher and just put the gun in?
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 35whelen no fire isssue
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2007, 01:21:52 PM »
Quote from: hellacatcher on August 06, 2007, 01:07:59 PM
Quick don't that take the ammo question out of the pitcher and just put the gun in?

Pitcher?? What's baseball have to do with it?  ::) You must mean picture!! :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitcher

If it was just an ammo problem, H&R wouldn't have discontinued the 22" Whelen and they would fix them, but "fixing" is likely a new barrel with a proper chamber, so they don't offer it any more, maybe they'll get a handle on them the next time they try, IF they try, as 270handiman was told in an email in the FAQs Whelen Discontinued thread.

Tim

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Offline hellacatcher

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Re: 35whelen no fire isssue
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2007, 02:00:03 PM »
I thought that is what I said it is the gun is the problem not the ammo. Sorry about my spelling It has been pointed out before I can not spell when I am in a hurry, but that is no excuse. Please forgive me.
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Offline Ditchdigger

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Re: 35whelen no fire isssue
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2007, 04:51:19 PM »
Quick,the reason Hellacatcher can't spell sometimes,is because he don't have all his finger's. I know for a fact he's missing one of them,because he gave it to me.   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  Digger
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 35whelen no fire isssue
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2007, 05:46:39 PM »
Yeah, I remember that, he was lucky to be able to give you the finger as that fall coulda been much worse, maybe that's why he can't spell too!! ;D :o

Tim
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: 35whelen no fire isssue
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2007, 07:50:24 PM »
Tim:   You are right mine is a 96 model.  Did not realise theyn were differant other than the barrel length.  Guess I'm lucky I got mine when I did.  Rog
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Offline Scibaer

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Re: 35whelen no fire isssue
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2007, 03:16:05 AM »
wow, i didnt mean to start this whole topic up again, lol.. sorry, i guess the issue isnt resolved
first i'll try some different ammo, being that 6 out of 10 fired for me, then maybe different ammo with better specs will be the fix.
if that dont fix it, i'll have to get a different barrel.
i dont see how NEF can fix this, they must be just giving out a new barrel, but if they discontinued them, then there are no new barrels to give out, that makes for a real problem.
thanks for all the inputs, i appreciate and respect the opinions given here.
glenn
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 35whelen no fire isssue
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2007, 05:09:20 AM »
They'll exchange the defective Whelen barrel for a different chambering of your choice. ;)

Tim
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Offline Scibaer

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Re: 35whelen no fire isssue
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2007, 02:41:36 PM »
Tim, i bought my 35 at a local gun store.. how exactly do i go about the exchange process.. details, suggestions,advice..any help you could offer.. this assumes that they will fit the new barrel for me ? and in a caliber of my choosing ? i dont know, do they offer a 300 win mag ?
glenn
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 35whelen no fire isssue
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2007, 03:13:59 PM »
Sorry Glenn, no 300WM, just standard chamberings. Just call H&R CS and tell em you have a recent production 35 Whelen that misfires and you would like to get it fixed or replaced, be sure to ask them to cover return shipping, if they can't fix it, they should offer to fit a new barrel of your choice to your frame while it's there. Their toll free number is (866)776-9292.

Tim
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 35whelen no fire isssue
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2007, 03:16:52 PM »
You can see the list of available barrels on the acc barrel page, a couple new ones are 444 Marlin and 45 Long Colt.

Tim

http://hr1871.com/Support/accessoryProgram.aspx
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Offline Scibaer

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Re: 35whelen no fire isssue
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2007, 02:27:17 AM »
tim,
 ok next obvious and dumb question, what caliber ? the .308 ? or the new .444
 i like the heavy hitters and loved my 35, i want something compairable, that can shoot POI out to 200 yards or so
glenn
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 35whelen no fire isssue
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2007, 05:55:27 AM »
308, 30-06, .444 or 45-70 would all do that, there's even a remote possibility that H&R will offer the 338 Federal next year too, we can always hope!! Here's the 444 and 45-70 numbers.

Tim

444 Marlin
Trajectory for Hornady .430 dia. (44 cal) 265 gr. FP Interlock at 2200 Feet per Second
At an Elevation Angle of: 0 degrees
Ballistic Coefficients of: 0.186   0.186   0.186   0.186   0.186
Velocity Boundaries (Feet per Second) of: 1680   1680   1680   1680
Wind Direction is: 0.0 o'clock and a Wind Velocity of: 0.0 Miles per hour
Wind Components are (Miles per Hour): DownRange: 0.0   Cross Range: 0.0   Vertical: 0.0
Altitude: 0 Feet with a Standard Atmospheric Model.
Temperature: 59 F
Data Printed in English Units
Range   Velocity   Energy   Momentum   Drop   Bullet Path   Wind Drift   Time of Flight
(Yards)   (Ft/Sec)   (Ft/Lbs)   (Lb-Sec)   (inches)   (inches)   (inches)   (Seconds)
0   2200.0   2847.5   2.59   0.0   -1.5   0.0   0.000000000
25   2092.7   2576.6   2.46   -0.23   0.87   0.0   0.034954139
50   1988.6   2326.4   2.34   -0.96   2.74   0.0   0.071719908
75   1887.6   2096.2   2.22   -2.24   4.06   0.0   0.110432290
100   1790.0   1885.0   2.11   -4.13   4.77   0.0   0.151235942
125   1696.1   1692.5   2.00   -6.69   4.8   0.0   0.194282315
150   1606.2   1517.9   1.89   -10.02   4.07   0.0   0.239725490
175   1520.7   1360.6   1.79   -14.18   2.51   0.0   0.287719225
200   1440.0   1220.0   1.69   -19.29   0.0   0.0   0.338409433
225   1364.6   1095.5   1.61   -25.44   -3.56   0.0   0.391924135
250   1294.9   986.5   1.52   -32.76   -8.28   0.0   0.448361322
275   1231.7   892.5   1.45   -41.38   -14.3   0.0   0.507770180
300   1175.5   812.9   1.38   -51.43   -21.75   0.0   0.570130748

45-70
Trajectory for Custom .458 Nosler Partition at 2400 Feet per Second
At an Elevation Angle of: 0 degrees
Ballistic Coefficients of: 0.199   0.199   0.199   0.199   0.199
Velocity Boundaries (Feet per Second) of: 2400   2400   2400   2400
Wind Direction is: 0.0 o'clock and a Wind Velocity of: 0.0 Miles per hour
Wind Components are (Miles per Hour): DownRange: 0.0   Cross Range: 0.0   Vertical: 0.0
Altitude: 0 Feet with a Standard Atmospheric Model.
Temperature: 59 F
Data Printed in English Units
Range   Velocity   Energy   Momentum   Drop   Bullet Path   Wind Drift   Time of Flight
(Yards)   (Ft/Sec)   (Ft/Lbs)   (Lb-Sec)   (inches)   (inches)   (inches)   (Seconds)
0   2400.0   3836.3   3.20   0.0   -1.5   0.0   0.000000000
25   2294.7   3507.0   3.06   -0.19   0.46   0.0   0.031959364
50   2192.0   3200.0   2.92   -0.8   2.0   0.0   0.065400810
75   2091.8   2914.3   2.79   -1.86   3.09   0.0   0.100426510
100   1994.4   2649.2   2.66   -3.42   3.68   0.0   0.137146460
125   1899.7   2403.7   2.53   -5.52   3.73   0.0   0.175678364
150   1808.0   2177.2   2.41   -8.22   3.18   0.0   0.216147953
175   1719.5   1969.1   2.29   -11.59   1.96   0.0   0.258686904
200   1634.4   1779.1   2.18   -15.7   0.0   0.0   0.303429691
225   1553.0   1606.3   2.07   -20.62   -2.77   0.0   0.350511131
250   1475.6   1450.2   1.97   -26.44   -6.44   0.0   0.400062378
275   1402.7   1310.4   1.87   -33.26   -11.11   0.0   0.452202776
300   1334.6   1186.2   1.78   -41.18   -16.88   0.0   0.507032617

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Offline Scibaer

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Re: 35whelen no fire isssue
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2007, 07:05:07 AM »
well here's how i see it .. its a 308 vs 30-06 issue  and a 444 vs 45-70 issue
 i'm of the mind that why bother with the 444 if you can have the 45-70 for the same initial cost ( im not sure of ammo prices ) and real field performance.. the ammo availability is always a concern too
  then there is the 308/30-06 debate too.. good ammo availability for both and so it comes down to real life field performance and shootablility ( out of the box accuracy ) ..
 having said all that , i'm leaning toward the 30-06, plentiful ammo and good selection of styles, proven and popluar field experience.
but :-\ that 45-70.. i just cant shake the feeling that i should have it....its calling to me...
help sway my descision...
glenn
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 35whelen no fire isssue
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2007, 07:11:52 AM »
If limited to factory ammo, there's no question the 45-70 is the choice over the 444, getting into handloading has it's merit in that respect. As for 30-06 or 45-70, both is the Handiholic answer, just a matter of which to get first!! ;D

Tim
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Offline Scibaer

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Re: 35whelen no fire isssue
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2007, 09:51:05 AM »
tim, yeah i argee there, bothare the way to go ! but i cant do that $$$ in time for this hunting season..
 i assume the 45-70 does a fine job on whitetails and wild hogs.. can it reach out to 150 yards ok with that shorter ( 22" ) barrel ?
 it looks like from the H&R site that the barrel come with rifle sights, is the barrel tapped and threaded for a scope ?
glenn
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 35whelen no fire isssue
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2007, 09:59:51 AM »
All H&R rifle barrels are drilled and tapped for the H&R Weaver style base, you can order the scope rail in lieu of sights, but they don't offer a discount for no sights, so it's best to order the scope rail and hammer extension in addtion to the basic barrel which comes with sights that cost ~$50 to add. The ballistic tables below are for actual velocities achieved with those bullets in my 22" barrels, the 45-70 has a MPBR in excess of 240yds, sighted in dead on at 200yds, its 3¾" high at 100yds and 6½" low at 250yds. But the recoil is whatcha wanta be aware of, 300gr bullets at 2400fps is close to recoil of the 375H&H.

Tim
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Offline Scibaer

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Re: 35whelen no fire isssue
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2007, 12:29:27 PM »
Tim,
 well the scales have tipped.. :P.. i guess its time to make that call. i'm going to ask for the 45-70, i'll put the 30-06 on the back burner for now.
here in michigan i rarely take shots over 100.. when i come in from the field tomorrow ( hunting the elusive, native michigan soda can ) i'll give NEF the call and make this deal happen..
 thanks for all your help with this matter, your advice was greatly appreciated.
glenn
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 35whelen no fire isssue
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2007, 12:49:40 PM »
Glad to help, the 45-70 is one of the most popular chambering to have, both in the 22" Handi or 32" BC, it's a real fun rifle just to shoot!! If you choose to limit your shots to 150yds or so, even the much milder trapdoor loads are plenty and won't beat ya up, but if you decide to shoot the heavier loads, just add a Limbsaver recoil pad if you get the wood stock, the syn stock is a little harder to work with, but a better pad can be mounted with a little yankee engineering!! ;) 

I've included a couple links to threads by Country Boy who just bought and scoped a 45-70 Handi recently.

Tim


http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,122231.msg1098418038.html#msg1098418038

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,122023.msg1098416292.html#msg1098416292

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,120943.msg1098407607.html#msg1098407607
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