Author Topic: Cartridges we can live without... (Read 9348 times)

TX Devil Doc · « **on:** September 20, 2005, 07:56:51 AM »

"Yeah, I know, we live in the age of diversity. We're supposed to have free choice in all things. That is well and good, but I think the manufacturers are offering us far too much choice in rifle cartridges. The more variety they offer the more costly the manufacturing and distribution, and guess who that cost is passed along to?... So I think it's time to cull the cartridge herd, and I'm going to give you a shopping list of cartridges that I think the major manufacturers should drop like bad habits".
Col. Craig Boddington, USMC-Ret.

Here's one example of his thought process... "With the .260's arrival I think American manufacturers should give up on the 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser. It is much more popular in Europe, and will (and certainly should) continue in European loadings. American loadings have long been anemic anyway, due to concern over potential use in aging rifles; to obtain anything close to the cartridge's potential it has always been necessary to either handload or buy European ammo. And that's the way it should be".
Col. Craig Boddington, USMC-Ret.

I agree with Col. Boddington in that with new ones coming along all the time, many share duplicate roles and many are obsolete. But, should they be discontinued?

Before I give you his full list, how about your thoughts on this topic?

If this discussion is redundant, I apologize. I'm new to this forum.

TxJester

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #1 on:** September 20, 2005, 08:29:42 AM »

I for one think that the only obsolete and redundant thing refered to in your post is Col. Craig Boddington :grin: Welcome to Greybeard outdoors.

Omaha-BeenGlockin · « **Reply #2 on:** September 20, 2005, 08:56:30 AM »

.22 Long

.220 Swift----the .243 in this role does it better

yes--the 6.5x55

ANY Short Mag cartridge

Any of the various super mag .300 cartridges---if you need more than the .300 Win mag---get a .338

.280 Rem----7mm-08 for little--7mm mag for big----the .280 is too close to the .270 and .30-06 to really make a difference

6mm Rem

7x57

There's a bunch more --but I'm being lazy today.

I'm going by what is a duplicate or doesn't fill a specific niche.

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #3 on:** September 20, 2005, 09:00:47 AM »

Quote from: Omaha-BeenGlockin

.22 Long

.220 Swift----the .243 in this role does it better

yes--the 6.5x55

ANY Short Mag cartridge

Any of the various super mag .300 cartridges---if you need more than the .300 Win mag---get a .338

.280 Rem----7mm-08 for little--7mm mag for big----the .280 is too close to the .270 and .30-06 to really make a difference

There's a bunch more --but I'm being lazy today.

I'll play

Pretty much every cartrige with a bore between .243 to .358 that is not 30-06 could go.

Zeke Menuar · « **Reply #4 on:** September 20, 2005, 09:47:56 AM »

Quote from: Krochus

I for one think that the only obsolete and redundant thing refered to in your post is Col. Craig Boddington :grin: Welcome to Greybeard outdoors.

:-D

How True!!!

Time for the Nomex underwear.

ZM

jvs · « **Reply #5 on:** September 20, 2005, 09:50:16 AM »

What a boring place GBO would be without all the 'discussion' about calibers. Take away arguments about MOA and FPS, Recoil and differences in Ballistics in the multitude of calibers, plus reducing the search for something new from the manufacturers, leads to not only the loss of products like the .204Ruger and the .17HMR but takes away any potential profits when a caliber makes it big.

Manufacturers design and produce new calibers to invent profits. Not many would survive if there were suddenly less research and development.

Not that I don't agree that there are way too many calibers to make hunting or shooting any more competitive or productive. But bragging rights are part of this picture too. Whether a caliber succeeds or fails depends on sales. If someone wants to spend their money on oddball cartridges they are the ones who pay to shoot it.

It's nice to be Conservative but if everything was like that we'd still be using Jack Stoves and driving 1949 Flathead Mercurys and buying Ice to keep foods cold.

I am quite happy with a .22S,L,LR, a 12 Gauge, a .22Hornet, a .35 Rem, a .30-06 and a .50 Pennsylvania Long Rifle Flintlock. All tried and true calibers and cheap to use. I have what I think I need and I have always taken into consideration what any caliber will cost to shoot. If somebody else thinks they need a Swede, for example, to be competitive or successful....so be it. In the end they are the ones paying to shoot their choice of calibers. Sometimes though, trying to sell those things can be a challenge. Not so with the run of the mill stuff.

I know my guns will not be in my possession forever and my kids have no interest, so I always have it in the back of my mind what I can get for them when I decide to 'cash out'. Every year that passes now gets me closer to that.

Bart Solo · « **Reply #6 on:** September 20, 2005, 09:53:57 AM »

Cartridges come and go. The market place eventually eliminates them. I have been studying the short mag cartridges for some months now and have yet to find any advantage for any of them, but maybe there is. Of course sales haven't exactly taken off, so they might not be around long.

jro45 · « **Reply #7 on:** September 20, 2005, 10:21:51 AM »

I think the more choises there are the better it is. That way you can get the rifle that you feel good with shooting and not something you don't need
but got anyway. Witch alot of us do anyway.

Grubbs · « **Reply #8 on:** September 20, 2005, 10:41:23 AM »

I agree with Omaha....all short mags could go. The .280, .264 win mag, The euro calibers should all go as well.

mr.frosty · « **Reply #9 on:** September 20, 2005, 10:49:21 AM »

does the short mag include the 308?

Graybeard · « **Reply #10 on:** September 20, 2005, 10:50:31 AM »

What I can do without? All belted rounds and all rounds with the term magnum attached to them.

kjeff50cal · « **Reply #11 on:** September 20, 2005, 10:56:58 AM »

Why should I think like the Ammo Buyer at Wally World

? :-D :-D :-D

kjeff50cal

Lawdog · « **Reply #12 on:** September 20, 2005, 11:49:20 AM »

Quote

I for one think that the only obsolete and redundant thing refered to in your post is Col. Craig Boddington

That I'll go along with that. That was about the dumbest article that Boddington ever wrote. Lawdog

Atomic Chicken · « **Reply #13 on:** September 20, 2005, 12:38:01 PM »

Greetings!

I like almost all of them.... but if I were to consign a few to oblivion it would be:

.25ACP (what you carry if you can't take a gun with you!)

.22 Long and Short (.22 Long Rifle does all these do, and more)

Can't think of another at the moment... I like most of the rifle cartridges, although I agree for the most part with Graybeard - I've never cared much for belted cartridges or magnums... had a .300 Win. Mag. for a while and never really warmed up to it and ended up selling it with no regrets.

Best wishes,
Bawko

jvs · « **Reply #14 on:** September 20, 2005, 12:50:13 PM »

Quote from: mr.frosty

does the short mag include the 308?

No.

The .308 is way too boring and dependable to be doing another 150 feet per second with no clear advantage.

BruceP · « **Reply #15 on:** September 20, 2005, 02:36:12 PM »

I'd have to say, at least in the lower 48 states, we could do without all but the .22LR, .223 Rem. and the 30-06. but why should we.

BTW I don't even have a 30-06! I have a .270Win. instead.

Bruce

Slamfire · « **Reply #16 on:** September 20, 2005, 04:07:59 PM »

Callin' him Col. is obsolete, he's been a "Gineral" for several years now. As for the cartridges I'll second Greybeard's nominations. :lol:

35Rem · « **Reply #17 on:** September 20, 2005, 04:16:02 PM »

I don't shoot a 280, but it seems a 7mm based on the 30-06 would be more versatile than the 270 win. :shock: (I can hear the boos and hisses already)Think about the variety of 7mm bullets out there....

The 22 Short is still a cool little cartridge. Don't see a need to eliminate it.

Like some said, the 30-06, or the 308 win will do just about anything one needs. So, lets just get rid of the rest?

GB

: Get rid of Anything with a Magnum on it?? What about the 357 Mag? I love it, personally. It's pretty versatile in a rifle, by the way.

Oh well, what fun would it be with one gun, anyway? I'm still trying to figure out which one I "need" next. Perish the thought of getting rid of any I have already.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #18 on:** September 20, 2005, 06:01:11 PM »

I like all the cartridges, it make for great choices.

handirifle · « **Reply #19 on:** September 20, 2005, 06:54:32 PM »

Keep 'em all, that 's what make us individuals. Heck if we could only shoot what a few like, this would nut be the good ol USA, now would it.

The only drawback to lots of calibers that I see is less time to spend with them.

beemanbeme · « **Reply #20 on:** September 21, 2005, 03:59:39 AM »

What was the logic given for dumping the .22LR?

While I own and shoot and really like my .280, I think its being squeezed to death by the 7-08 and 7mag.

As posted, the market place will decide what thrives and what dies.

TX Devil Doc · « **Reply #21 on:** September 21, 2005, 05:13:03 AM »

Here is Col. Boddington's list of cartridges we can live without. (And yes, he retired as a Colonel, not a general. Though he was sellected for promotion to Brigadier General. Just to clarify an earlier comment).

.218 Bee
.225 Win.
.220 Swift
.222 Rem.
.222 Rem. Mag.
.225 Win.
6mm Rem.
.25-20 WCF
.25-35 WCF
.257 Roberts
6mm Rem.
.264 Win. Mag.
6.5x55 Swedish Mauser
7x57 Mauser
.284 Win.
7mm STW
.300 Savage
.30-40 Krag
.300 H&H Magnum
.32 Winchester Special
8mm Remington Magnum
.356 Win.
.348 Win.
.375 Win.

The following is a link to the complete article. It does a better job of explaining his reasoning than I might.

http://www.rifleshootermag.com/ammunition/cartridges_without/index1.html

missouri dave · « **Reply #22 on:** September 21, 2005, 05:36:23 AM »

Strikes me as boddington is one stuffed shirt so full of himself (and something else as well but self control got the better of me) I don't know how he gets it buttoned up. What's in my gunsafe is what I want to be there and not what he thinks I should have there. Further, his job is to sell those nice new ultra/super/uber magnums. To hear him and some other gunwriters tell it wild game has grown and armored hide and has become so skittish it can't be approached to any closer than 600 yards. RUBBISH!!! Bow hunters still kill plenty of game and they don't do it at 600+ yards or at 4000 fps. My entire hunting armory (well, the centerfires anyway) is made up of two cartridges I'm sure ole craig would feel are obsolete. Both are CZ mannlicher stocked rifles in 6.5x55 swede and the other is 9.3x62mauser. With the proper load they'll take anything from varmints to elephants. I'll admit neither is all that common nowadays but that's exactly why I chose them. Sorry bout the rant.

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #23 on:** September 21, 2005, 05:55:52 AM »

I read the magazine article and all I can say is I'm glad I don,t subcribe to any gun mags, That has to be one of the dumbest articles I've ever read

Talk about biased I like the part where He wants to ditch the 6.5x55 but then later in the article thinks the 35 whelen is doing fine, good luck finding a new rifle chambered in 35 whelen whereas just about every manufacturer offers a 6.5x55 swedish chambering. This whole article is just a thinly vailed attempt to scare people into buying a new wssaurum alphabet soup magnum!

IntrepidWizard · « **Reply #24 on:** September 21, 2005, 05:57:14 AM »

I agree with the list posted Jester except for the 300 Savage for from it came the 308 and other great calibers,why someone would pick on the 22 Long beats me---why not the 22 CB or 22 BB?

longwalker · « **Reply #25 on:** September 21, 2005, 06:26:53 AM »

Please don't kill the shorts ands smaller. I know they aren't good for much, other than taking care of the cat and rat population inside city limits. Right, a nice little quiet pest removal device. Thats what everybody needs isn't it? Who needs a supressor when you have CB's

Seems to me, many of us shot 22 shorts because they were considerably less money than those big game long rifles the rich kids all had.

longwalker

victorcharlie · « **Reply #26 on:** September 21, 2005, 12:09:40 PM »

Quote from: Graybeard

What I can do without? All belted rounds and all rounds with the term magnum attached to them.

Yep.......I agree......

jvs · « **Reply #27 on:** September 21, 2005, 12:16:40 PM »

Col. Boddington is entitled to his opinion. It seems like he left out alot of Military Calibers that have been obsolete for years but still have a following, the .30-40 Krag and 8mm for example. If it wasn't for some of those calibers he listed, Remington would never had sold a few of the Classics in past years. He probably has no use for Civilian calibers to begin with. Maybe he should spend his time lobbying the Pentagon to get rid of that unholy M-16 in favor of the old reliable 30 caliber fighting machines.

I also noticed he left out alot of the current Ultra Mags and SAUM's. I guess he didn't want to ruffle any feathers from advertisers to his wallet.

TX Devil Doc · « **Reply #28 on:** September 21, 2005, 12:49:52 PM »

Actually Boddington did mention dropping the .30-40 Krag (see his list posted earlier). As for the 8mm, here is his reasoning... "We could easily discard the 8x57, but I've already done away with most of the cartridges that use it as the parent case--6mm Remington, .257 Roberts, 7x57. Better keep the old 8mm Mauser so we'll have some brass!".

A reminder that the premise of Boddington's argument is NOT to take these cartridges completely out of circulation, but rather for manufacturers to concentrate their efforts on the more popular cartridges. The balance will be picked up by handloaders.

His explanation follows:

"The reasons why I have chosen these cartridges vary tremendously. A cartridge doesn't have to be bad to be unpopular! Some are truly obsolete, some are great cartridges that just didn't make the marketing grade, a couple should never had existed at all, and some are only viable in handloaded form--so why bother with factory loads at all?".

"By the way, just because a cartridge is popular doesn't mean that its great, either--but I've avoided truly popular cartridges because they aren't going to be culled. I didn't attempt to take into account why a cartridge was popular. For instance, you won't see any of the old-timers revitalized by Cowboy Action Shooting on my list.".

"In setting my rules, I've also stayed away from proprietaries. If a gun company wants to foot the horrendous R&D costs to have their own unique cartridges, that's fine with me. Likewise, if the consumer wants to buy them and deal with single-source availability. So the only candidates I considered are cartridges loaded by a major U.S. manufacturer.".

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #29 on:** September 21, 2005, 01:26:10 PM »

Since you seem to be colonel boddington in disguise what would a person who only shoots .308 benefit by 6.5x55 .358 win .257 roberts and other cartridges not being around? You'd get to pay more for .308 ammo because i grantee you ammo manufacturers make a nice profit margin on these semi obsolete chamberings. After all they don't take any more raw materials to make than a .308 but they sure do charge more for them. It doesn't really matter to me i don't shoot factory ammo. But i think it would be amusing to see how loudly you people would scream, that think some cartridges should go just because you don't like them when they decide to drop YOUR pet cartridge. Maybe 32 H&R magnum or 35 rem or 41 magnum or maybe 45 ACP since 45 GAP is better.