Author Topic: Ammo makers  (Read 6492 times)

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Offline JonnyReb

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Re: Ammo makers
« Reply #60 on: March 16, 2013, 04:45:22 PM »

It is entirely within the power of arms and ammo consumers to resolve the issue.  Simply don't allow yourself to be gouged.  Demand that 1000 rounds of ammo be included (at no charge) with EVERY firearms purchase.  No free ammo, no sale. 

Does anyone on this forum really NEED to buy firearms or ammunition at inflated prices?  Those who do are the enemy of shooting sports enthusiasts and firearms owners worldwide.  Know your enemy.  Educate him before it's too late.  Otherwise, he'll take you down with him.  (Like he's doing right now.)

 I'm dumbfounded by these statements :o

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Offline Lizzie-6

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Re: Ammo makers
« Reply #61 on: March 16, 2013, 04:57:46 PM »

It is entirely within the power of arms and ammo consumers to resolve the issue.  Simply don't allow yourself to be gouged.  Demand that 1000 rounds of ammo be included (at no charge) with EVERY firearms purchase.  No free ammo, no sale. 

Does anyone on this forum really NEED to buy firearms or ammunition at inflated prices?  Those who do are the enemy of shooting sports enthusiasts and firearms owners worldwide.  Know your enemy.  Educate him before it's too late.  Otherwise, he'll take you down with him.  (Like he's doing right now.)

I'm dumbfounded by these statements :o

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Don't be.

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Offline dakotashooter2

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Re: Ammo makers
« Reply #62 on: March 16, 2013, 06:42:13 PM »
Remember how amunition production is done. Most manufacturers probably only have a few lines to run ammunition on so they are only running a few cartridges/ calibers at any given time......... They will run a years supply of a given cartridge then retool thier lines and run something else.. Most likely they are having to run any given cartridge a bit longer than they normally do to catch up with the demand meaning they are running less variety.  And when things got tight they probably ran with whatever they were set up with on the lines which was probably different for each company.
I remember hearing that CCI was producing 4 million rnds of .22 per day but when you break that down by bricks, the number of states and possible retailers it really doesn't amount to any retailers getting much in the way of quantity. Particularly when they may have 20-30 people waiting in line for it each day.
Just another worthless opinion!!

Offline rickt300

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Re: Ammo makers
« Reply #63 on: March 16, 2013, 07:40:41 PM »
yeah I guess "need" is defined differently by the Dims.
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Offline blind ear

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Re: Ammo makers
« Reply #64 on: March 16, 2013, 07:46:51 PM »
Remember how amunition production is done. Most manufacturers probably only have a few lines to run ammunition on so they are only running a few cartridges/ calibers at any given time......... They will run a years supply of a given cartridge then retool thier lines and run something else.. Most likely they are having to run any given cartridge a bit longer than they normally do to catch up with the demand meaning they are running less variety.  And when things got tight they probably ran with whatever they were set up with on the lines which was probably different for each company.
I remember hearing that CCI was producing 4 million rnds of .22 per day but when you break that down by bricks, the number of states and possible retailers it really doesn't amount to any retailers getting much in the way of quantity. Particularly when they may have 20-30 people waiting in line for it each day.
-
by that logic we should swing to an oversupply of military, then police and security and then most popular sporting rounds and trickle on down form there, - eventually. I hope so. ear
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Offline srussell

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Re: Ammo makers
« Reply #65 on: March 16, 2013, 09:52:10 PM »
Guy's, am I the only one who likes to hear a lady talk about gun powder?
I have seen kits at Pyrodirect.com for gunpowder, good old 3 part formula.
Best wishes


Three parts , potassium nitrate , sulphur , and charcoal .
But what are the percentages and how do you go from there ?
And how do you induce alcohol into the mix ?
Alcohol has 33 different derivatives , which ones are the ones to use for smokeless ?
Depends on what you want it to do , pistol or rifle and you have to calculate the burn rate to
facilitate chamber pressures .
Primers ? There is a way to get around this , and it has to do with a child's toy .
the percentages are 75/15/10

Offline mechanic

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Re: Ammo makers
« Reply #66 on: March 17, 2013, 09:46:51 AM »
Molon Labe, (King Leonidas of the Spartan Army)

Offline Anna

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Re: Ammo makers
« Reply #67 on: March 17, 2013, 11:00:53 AM »
Guy's, am I the only one who likes to hear a lady talk about gun powder?
I have seen kits at Pyrodirect.com for gunpowder, good old 3 part formula.
Best wishes


Three parts , potassium nitrate , sulphur , and charcoal .
But what are the percentages and how do you go from there ?
And how do you induce alcohol into the mix ?
Alcohol has 33 different derivatives , which ones are the ones to use for smokeless ?
Depends on what you want it to do , pistol or rifle and you have to calculate the burn rate to
facilitate chamber pressures .
Primers ? There is a way to get around this , and it has to do with a child's toy .
the percentages are 75/15/10


Give the man a cookie !  Now tell me what toy would work fine in recycling primers .
And its cheap and abundant .

Offline blind ear

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Re: Ammo makers
« Reply #68 on: March 17, 2013, 01:08:41 PM »
Do they make cap pistols anymore?
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Offline kennyd

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Re: Ammo makers
« Reply #69 on: March 17, 2013, 01:23:15 PM »
Three parts , potassium nitrate , sulphur , and charcoal . But what are the percentages and how do you go from there ?And how do you induce alcohol into the mix ?Alcohol has 33 different derivatives , which ones are the ones to use for smokeless ?Depends on what you want it to do , pistol or rifle and you have to calculate the burn rate to facilitate chamber pressures .Primers ? There is a way to get around this , and it has to do with a child's toy .


The black powder has different proportions according to which time frame forumula you find.  Research will tell what old England used, old America, and new Goex.  After mixing the ingredients, you have to wet it, make it into cakes, dry them, pulverize them, sieve them for size, then tumble the grains with graphite for a coating.  All of this has to be done with NO sparks, or static electricity.  That means no iron or steel zippers, belt buckles, and no nylon clothing.


Smokeless is made from nitrocellulose, or nitroglycerin, made with sulphuric acid, alcohol, and othe things.  The mix is flaked, extruded, or dropped in balls.  The size of grain, whether it has a hole, looks like a donut, plus the coating controls the burn rate.  The basic stuff is all the same.   That is why you have to be aware of abusing ammo enough to break down the grain structure, and not overcompress some loads to where you end up with fines.


Primers are made with lead styphinate or other explosive stuff, so that comes under the heading of manufacturing bombs.  I have no idea how determine the quantity to put in a reassembled primer.  And if you avoided blowing yourself up, there is still the worry of working with so much lead or mercury and breathing it, or getting it into your system.  The matchheads and caps would probably work better for BP caps, or just go to a flint.
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Offline Anna

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Re: Ammo makers
« Reply #70 on: March 17, 2013, 03:18:40 PM »
Phomanita mercury was used as a substitute for lead believing it would be rendered useless in the
firing sequence .   
A cap used on firing of BP does not have to be destroyed , a heavier metal could be used and
recycled . Give up on the toy ?
Its toy pistol caps I've seen people use them . They are a contact explosive in a small enough
quantity each to be placed into the reusable cap and will fire the BP weapon just fine .
The reusable steel cap is called a dimple cup, they resemble a tiny freeze plug and are commonly
used on diesel fuel systems .
You place the cap inside one trimming it up to where the paper its covered with holds it in .
And it fits right over the nipple , the hammer hits it and boom !
 


Offline mirage1988

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Re: Ammo makers
« Reply #71 on: March 17, 2013, 04:16:23 PM »
What you guys and girls don't know is that the feds control the primer and rimfire production manufacturing. All employees at an ammo manufacturer that make or handle primer or rimfire charging compound must pass a BATFE background check to get an explosives permit. The BATFE has the power to control who the manufacturer makes ammo for by approving or denying or revoking the explosives handling permits of their employees.  Don't believe me? Apply at ATK (federal) or OLIN with a criminal record and see how it works for ya.

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Ammo makers
« Reply #72 on: March 18, 2013, 06:47:13 AM »
I know Hornady still has bullets for sale at various places.  It is justs primers and powder that is hard to find.  Powder is still somewhat available, but is usually not the right kind.  However there is still a lot of powder available that is good for lead bullets if you cast.  Might have to get into this, especially for pistol or straight wall cartridges.   Lead can work well for 45-70, 444, 44 mag, 357mag, for revolver and/or leverguns.  Might have to do this, and trade my jacketed bullets in these calibers for jacketed bullets in necked cartridges.  Still primers are a problem.  I've heard you can refil primers with match heads and kids caps.  Don't know about this.  I've also heard primers are going to be in short supply for the next 8 months. 
 
Might have to keep lining up at the stores to buy what they hand out in this socialist society we have become.  Food might get this way, especially since we had severe droughts in the plains states which caused lower wheat and corn crop yeilds this year.  However one thing I learned on "Doomsday Preppers" is a 50'x50' field of wheat can supply enough wheat for a family for one year.  Might have to grow our own.  Hand cutting and threshing can be time consuming when it is ready to harvest.  Then there is grinding into flour when needed. 
 
Maybe black powder and bow hunting is a temporary solution for hunting to save ammo for emergencies.   

Offline powderman

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Re: Ammo makers
« Reply #73 on: March 18, 2013, 07:10:31 AM »
What you guys and girls don't know is that the feds control the primer and rimfire production manufacturing. All employees at an ammo manufacturer that make or handle primer or rimfire charging compound must pass a BATFE background check to get an explosives permit. The BATFE has the power to control who the manufacturer makes ammo for by approving or denying or revoking the explosives handling permits of their employees.  Don't believe me? Apply at ATK (federal) or OLIN with a criminal record and see how it works for ya.

 
 
I didn't know that. If true it's no wonder 22s are allmost non existant. POWDERMAN.  ::) ::)
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Offline gstewart44

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Re: Ammo makers
« Reply #74 on: March 18, 2013, 07:25:22 AM »

 ....your boy Obama...... 

Don't let Reverends Jesse or Al catch you sayin that....didn't you know it's racist??? :o
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Offline Lizzie-6

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Re: Ammo makers
« Reply #75 on: March 18, 2013, 08:30:04 AM »

 ....your boy Obama...... 

Don't let Reverends Jesse or Al catch you saying that....didn't you know it's racist??? :o


I'm not calling him MY boy.  I'm calling him YOUR boy.  As in, "...part of the male brotherhood of boys...", as it were.  What are you saying anyway?  Far as I know, your boy Obama claims to be biologically male.  If you have evidence to the contrary, you are much closer to him than I am.

Barry, Jesse and Al all claim (or have been assigned) membership in a common American "racial" group.  Judging from their physical appearances alone, I suspect they all carry more recent European ancestry than either is  willing to admit. Truth be told, upward of one third of Americans claiming to be "white" on the 2010 US census have measurable recent, sub-Saharan ancestry.  Kind of degrades the whole American racialist mindset if you ask me.

But what do I know?  I'm just a girl, biologically female, politically conservative, and genetically multiracial.  I sometimes wear BDU pants in the field, but I'm no transvestite.
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Offline gstewart44

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Re: Ammo makers
« Reply #76 on: March 18, 2013, 08:46:53 AM »
Holy cow L-6......I was just tryin to lighten things up around here.....but truth be told if anyone in public referred to Obama as "boy" (doesn't matter if it's yours or mine) the media and the race mongers would crucify that person.  Jus'sayin.... 
I'm just tryin' to keep everything in balance, Woodrow. You do more work than you got to, so it's my obligation to do less. (Gus McCrae)

Offline mirage1988

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Re: Ammo makers
« Reply #77 on: March 18, 2013, 08:54:54 AM »
Powderman-
It is true- When I was hired at Federal in 2009 they asked me if I wanted to have a BATFE background check done so I could work in rimfire. They were hiring 40-50 employees a week at that time at the anoka plant to keep up with the obama buying craze. I ran a primer insert press there for a while, but went back to the machine shop I was laid off from.


What you guys and girls don't know is that the feds control the primer and rimfire production manufacturing. All employees at an ammo manufacturer that make or handle primer or rimfire charging compound must pass a BATFE background check to get an explosives permit. The BATFE has the power to control who the manufacturer makes ammo for by approving or denying or revoking the explosives handling permits of their employees.  Don't believe me? Apply at ATK (federal) or OLIN with a criminal record and see how it works for ya.

 
 
I didn't know that. If true it's no wonder 22s are allmost non existant. POWDERMAN.  ::) ::)

Offline Lizzie-6

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Re: Ammo makers
« Reply #78 on: March 18, 2013, 09:24:29 AM »
Holy cow L-6......I was just tryin to lighten things up around here.....but truth be told if anyone in public referred to Obama as "boy" (doesn't matter if it's yours or mine) the media and the race mongers would crucify that person.  Jus'sayin....


My Brother:

Your humor is not lost on me.  I hope my brief attempt at seriousness is not lost on you either. 

Racialism -  the political classification of Americans by race - is too serious a matter to surrender entirely to Obama, Jackson, Sharpton, and their stooges in the media. 
[likewise]
Gun control - the systematic degradation of the Second Amendment - is too serious a matter to surrender entirely to Obama, Feinstein, LaPierre, and their stooges in the media.

That's what I'm saying.  All humor aside.
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Offline gstewart44

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Re: Ammo makers
« Reply #79 on: March 18, 2013, 10:18:10 AM »
Holy cow L-6......I was just tryin to lighten things up around here.....but truth be told if anyone in public referred to Obama as "boy" (doesn't matter if it's yours or mine) the media and the race mongers would crucify that person.  Jus'sayin....


My Brother:

Your humor is not lost on me.  I hope my brief attempt at seriousness is not lost on you either. 

Racialism -  the political classification of Americans by race - is too serious a matter to surrender entirely to Obama, Jackson, Sharpton, and their stooges in the media. 
[likewise]
Gun control - the systematic degradation of the Second Amendment - is too serious a matter to surrender entirely to Obama, Feinstein, LaPierre, and their stooges in the media.

That's what I'm saying.  All humor aside.
I hear you ......
I'm just tryin' to keep everything in balance, Woodrow. You do more work than you got to, so it's my obligation to do less. (Gus McCrae)

Offline gypsyman

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Re: Ammo makers
« Reply #80 on: March 18, 2013, 10:45:18 AM »
Lizzie-6, while a nice idea, 1000rds of ammo or no sale, it'll never work. Profit margin, usually, will not allow a dealer to make that kind of sale. Dealers have to make money to stay in business. You might find some that will put ammo in on the deal, but, I can garuantee you, it's in the price. It's a combination of  people being scared, buying more than they need, govt. orders, reloaders trying to stay ahead of the game. Several major ammo dealers I know, raised their price's at the gun shows, as part timers would buy what they had on a Friday night set up, take it over to their table, double the price, and make more money than the dealer that made a living buy selling ammo. Catch 22, try and convience newby's not to buy inflated price's, and it will come down. Untill that time, your going to see high price's. gypsyman
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Offline Lizzie-6

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Re: Ammo makers
« Reply #81 on: March 18, 2013, 11:39:50 AM »
Lizzie-6, while a nice idea, 1000rds of ammo or no sale, it'll never work. Profit margin, usually, will not allow a dealer to make that kind of sale. Dealers have to make money to stay in business. You might find some that will put ammo in on the deal, but, I can garuantee you, it's in the price. It's a combination of  people being scared, buying more than they need, govt. orders, reloaders trying to stay ahead of the game. Several major ammo dealers I know, raised their price's at the gun shows, as part timers would buy what they had on a Friday night set up, take it over to their table, double the price, and make more money than the dealer that made a living buy selling ammo. Catch 22, try and convience newby's not to buy inflated price's, and it will come down. Untill that time, your going to see high price's. gypsyman

If you pay $1500 for a $750 rifle, the cost of the ammo is ALREADY in the price.  The only question is who gets to go home with YOUR ammo.  If you voluntarily leave it on the table, then the dealer has a right to sell $750 worth of YOUR ammo to other folks for $1500.   See how that works?

If YOU have the cash, YOU call the deal.  It's not like you're negotiating with a physician to stop the bleeding of a severed hand.  Let the dealer sell the rifle to a zombie hunter for $1500.  Tell the buyer that you have a brand new bayonet that fits his new rifle and exchange numbers with him before he leaves. 

Sooner or later zombie boy will need to go to Vegas for the weekend.  Or get a tattoo.  Or buy a wedding ring for the skank he met in Ensenada last night.  Wala!  You will have an opportunity to buy a mint condition (and probably unfired) AR-15  for $750.  Get your boy to throw in ALL the ammo he has for it too. 

It's a win-win all around.  He gets to tattoo his new girlfriends name on his neck and marry her in Vegas tonight.  You get the AR + ammo at a smokin' price, and at the same time, do your part to bring the price of firearms back down to pre-Obama levels.  Zombie boy will thank you when he decides to buy his next firearm.

Better yet, you could offer him his original for $1000 and you will still have done him a favor.  The ammo may be gone, but he still has his tattoo and new wife to keep him warm.

It always works.  You just need to give it a little time.  My younger brother added a HK93 w/Leupold scope, SIG 220, two Mini-14's, and a Springfield M1A w/E2 stock to his collection, from guys who "needed the money".
Lizzie-Six

Offline Anna

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Re: Ammo makers
« Reply #82 on: March 18, 2013, 03:11:26 PM »
My bother just got a nice car for his wife by trading an AR he had for years and only paid $650.00
for it years ago . Its a 2006 Crown Vic with only 60k miles on it in pristine condition .
Its all free enterprise and bartering like this is becoming very popular .
The only problem is it always involves guns , ammo , or something needed for the perceived zombie
apocalypse that people believe is coming .
Survivalist were perceived as loony in the 1980s , now it is the guy next door !
Conspiracy theory's were said to be bunk right after the election of 2008 .
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Offline Lon371

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Re: Ammo makers
« Reply #83 on: March 18, 2013, 03:24:39 PM »
BEN. TRy the farm supply stores, I bought several boxes at RURAL KING. POWDERMAN.  ;D ;D

sshhhh don't be given away my secrets ;D
Way I see it, there is no shortage. After he was anointed king, everyone panicked. Buying any gun they can, buying up ammo to go with it. Now every time ammo hits the stores, employees spread the word. Thinking there is still a shortage, folks are running in and buying all they can. If people bought their normal usage supply, there would be ammo every where.
 
Lonny

Offline Anna

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Re: Ammo makers
« Reply #84 on: March 18, 2013, 03:33:55 PM »
Can you blame them ? Look at our government people still have family's to defend !
Drones , para military cops , floods of people from other cultures , no real jobs anymore ,
taxes out of control , racial favoritism , class envy .
Its like our own government has declared war on us !
It may come down to that we are history if we do not fight back .

Offline kennyd

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Re: Ammo makers
« Reply #85 on: March 19, 2013, 02:21:05 AM »
Its like our own government has declared war on us


There has long been a war on the middle class, from both sides.  They seem to look only at the short term, and forget that it is the middle that built this country.  Used to be you could pull yourself up by the bootstraps, now they have taken the boots.  The days of being to live "OK" on a regular job are pretty well gone.  For a lot of us, even an extra tank of gas to go fishing or picnicking is a luxury.  Forget the plinking at cans with the kids/grandkids along a bank as now we can't replace our .22's.


It's my fault, if I hadn't posted how useful .22 is, this would never have happened! ::)


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Offline Anna

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Re: Ammo makers
« Reply #86 on: March 19, 2013, 03:07:49 AM »
I've heard a lot of gun owners lately say oh well its only a 22 !
Kid stuff who cares if its gone it wouldn't defend you from anything !
They seem to be missing the point , there was a time in America that a 22 was the only gun a lot of
family's had . It fed their family's , try to take down a vicious bunny for dinner with a 30-06 !
Not much left unless you like rabbits feet and after awhile that could become some pretty expensive
shopping . And I differ with them about its ability to defend , a head shot and a 22 has the tendency
to rattle around in a skull . Sure an AR or an M1A is good , but in a bug out are you going to carry
around a 22 and a main battle rifle with all the ammo ?
If you get caught with your pants down and only had one weapon I would want it to be a 22 !
Especially if it was a good semi auto with a 20 rd mag.
Self protection would come in the form of my 1911, if they are that close that could mean there is more than one of them . And I am just me so that's the time for a bug out .[size=78%] [/size]




Offline goodshot

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Re: Ammo makers
« Reply #87 on: March 19, 2013, 05:10:35 AM »
Saw pictures of a 22 designed for crowd control in Former Soviet Union, hurts enough to take people out of the mood to "insurrect".
Can't imagine anyone having a 22 wound on their list of things to do .
   

Offline vabeachman

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Re: Ammo makers
« Reply #88 on: March 19, 2013, 06:13:30 AM »
Castboolits has tutorial on making blackpowder.  Potassium Nitrate (Lowes Stump remover is 100% Potassium N, the kind needed), charcoal made from willow or other softwood, sulfur and some alcohol.
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Offline rickt300

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Re: Ammo makers
« Reply #89 on: March 19, 2013, 06:28:25 AM »
I went to the Fort Worth gunshow Sunday. As far as ammo goes 22 shells were expensive. $10. per box of 50 and I mean the cheap stuff. The 550 round milk carton bulk was marked $85! On the whole there was not a lot of ammo for sale though. Nice AR's going for $1200. to $1400. AK variants were way overpriced as were the few SKS's I saw. Handguns were the most prevalent with prices for any semi-auto outrageous.
I have been identified as Anti-Federalist, I prefer Advocate for Anarchy.