Author Topic: H&R better get their act together... (Read 5197 times)

ironglow · « **Reply #60 on:** October 25, 2012, 07:24:43 AM »

I don't think the concern is with the Gardner H&Rs, but with the "beancounter" H&Rs..of M&R....(Marlington & Remlin)..

Ranger99 · « **Reply #61 on:** October 25, 2012, 09:27:19 AM »

shipping papers on the way.
we'll see. . . . . .

ironglow · « **Reply #62 on:** October 26, 2012, 01:53:22 PM »

Not all sugar & cream...
I bought 2 new rifles for big game this season..A Ruger American in .308 Win and a CVA Scout in .44 magnum.
I took them to my woods for the first time today. The Ruger dialed in quite quickly, using WW 150 gr power points..and it shoots better than I can. I won't give groups, because the conditions were far from ideal..but they were good, nonetheless .. in spite of wobbly table etc.
My CVA Scout was a different story however..Starting with a new box of Winchester white box 240 gr JSP, fired cases became increasingly hard to extract..were very dirty over the whole outer case walls. At first I thought I saw some incipient seperation mark about at the bullet base level..but then realized there is a knurled spot there on the new rounds.
You will notice i have one case which split lengthwise..
OK ..so what's my problem..a load of extra hot ammo, an oversize chamber? Or what else?

Ranger99 · « **Reply #63 on:** October 26, 2012, 02:02:36 PM »

try some different ammo.
if the same thing happens with
a different brand, you know it's
the gun. when i first started
serious deer hunting, i bought
some federal 30/30's that all
split the necks. everyone said
"your rifle is junk" . i bought some
different ammo and never split one.
that was about 35 years ago. been
reloading prob 20+ years now.

Ranger99 · « **Reply #64 on:** October 26, 2012, 02:05:11 PM »

did you happen to check for
zig-zag rifling?
oh. . .no. . . wait.
that's h&r that does that. . . .

ironglow · « **Reply #65 on:** October 26, 2012, 02:31:24 PM »

NO, the rifling looks fine..but I am still holding my breath over this love affair with the CYC Scout..

gcrank1 · « **Reply #66 on:** October 26, 2012, 02:59:15 PM »

Mic those fully fire-formed cases to compare to the SAAMI specs, they will tell you if its an oversize chamber. Thats pretty expensive shooting to not even have good brass left to reload $:-\$ .

ironglow · « **Reply #67 on:** October 26, 2012, 03:16:56 PM »

Thanks G-crank, I'll mic them out..

Spanky · « **Reply #68 on:** October 26, 2012, 04:49:49 PM »

That's funky with the white box ammo. My Scout shoots that stuff into one hole. It's surely a good idea to mic those cases and see what the heck is going on. Let us know what you find out.

Spanky

ironglow · « **Reply #69 on:** October 27, 2012, 08:20:52 AM »

Since the rifle is a new piece, I took it back to my gun dealer. Mark, the dealer is a 23 year police officer with much firearms experience and since he is still LEO..his shop is only open Friday PM & Saturdays..but his Dad is there on those days, and he is a lifetime gunsmith.
They checked things out and and said they believe it to be an ammo problem, rather than a rifle problem. I had begun to suspect that, because it got so the barrel break trigger wouldn't move to break the barrel...to the point where I had to push the firing trigger ahead to a click, an then use the barrel break trigger.
Anyway, I just realized..I didn't furnish a photo of the primers, so I'll post one here, so you guys can compare fired to new rounds.

kennyd · « **Reply #70 on:** October 27, 2012, 08:56:28 AM »

The exaggerated pistol grip on the Rossi and CVA is ugly, even if it works. The Rossi is the worst. I can't figure who buys these things. The rossi's I looked at at Gander last year had the stock bolt already loose, they didn't seem to even care or offer a discount over the problem. I would still like to see a .338 something and a .358.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #71 on:** October 27, 2012, 09:06:50 AM »

Ive found a few messed up goods at Gander and offered them what I considered a decent discount price to take off their hands and not have to deal with returns, credits, etc. I was told by a manager that it just doesnt matter to them, and no, I could pay full price if I wanted the goods. Well, hey, I dont pay full price for new messed up stuff and decided Gander hasnt seemed to want my hard earned money very much so they arent likely to get any more. With their typical attitude here and overpriced goods I expect them to go under too.

ironglow · « **Reply #72 on:** October 27, 2012, 10:31:40 AM »

The stock is one of the things which attracted me to the CVA, I am not one to be so concerned with appearance as function. I guess that's why more of my gunstocks are synthetic, rather than wood. Actually, with a 2.5X20 scope, the Scout makes an attractive "Black Rifle" package..

The forestock is held with 2 screws in such a way as I doubt it will affect accuracy, since it places no tension on the action. The pivot point is with a solid pin which would take some disassembly to remove.
Gander Mountain; years ago I used to buy guns from GM, because they competed with Wally world price wise. Now I buy neither from GM or WW.. Patronizing a fellow who is in business for himself and his love of guns, is a good idea. Sure, I will pay a few bucks more..not many though...and I can just see me taking a rifle back to Wally World when I have a problem as I mentioned above. I have bought 3 rifles in the last couple years from Mark..and I don't plan on buying new anywhere else.
Next gun will probably be a small, 'deep cover' handgun..

Ranger99 · « **Reply #73 on:** October 27, 2012, 02:18:17 PM »

glad to see someone else who believes in
patronizing the local independent vendors.
use to be about a half a dozen gun shops
and tackle stores here close. now the closest
anything is 10 miles away, the place where
my zig-zag rifled mess came from. i took it
by to show them what came from Marlington
and they about fell over. everyone in the store
had to get a look at the "craftsmanship"

Spanky · « **Reply #74 on:** October 27, 2012, 02:23:13 PM »

There must be a way of tracking who does the work on the rifles during the building process. Seems like H&R would find out who's doing the shoddy work and show them the way to the unemployment line.

Spanky

Ranger99 · « **Reply #75 on:** October 27, 2012, 02:32:35 PM »

i sort of believe as other posters have said.
h&r is likely taking some of their higher-end
sales away, and if they can justify padlocking
the h&r division that would be that much
write-off that could be taken.
who knows?

likely some of the p.t.b. are in some office
somewhere sulking saying " i don't know why
we bought that crappy little company! who wouldn't
want a nice 1000.00 model 700 instead of those
obsolete single shots!"

of course, i'd say a majority of handi owners
reload too, so they would probably think
that would cut in remington's ammo sales.

ironglow · « **Reply #76 on:** November 02, 2012, 05:15:58 PM »

Problem solved..I was going to try other ammo just in case..but I got down to my dealers with the CVA Scout before I could do so.
Apparently the problem was with the ammo, Mark tried various ammos he had at his shop..Hornadys, Federals and Winchester silver tips..not a hitch..all went well. I apparently got a "hyper" loading in the Winchester white box JSPs.
Now I have to drop a line to Winchester.. I can't find anything which appears to be a lot # or I would post it for you guys.
I did find a number just above the UPC bar code.. Q4240 but I don't know if it is a lot number since it appears to have been printed with the original printing.

cjrjck · « **Reply #77 on:** November 03, 2012, 03:42:33 AM »

I would not discount the value of the H&R/NEF brand. The name goes back a long time. Who knows how many single shot shotguns have been passed down for generations. Many H&R owners shoot them because their Dads and Grandfathers did. They have never heard of Rossi or CVA. I would also venture to guess that most have never heard of this website and most do not reload. They just are not as discerning as we are. I see a lot of them in the rural areas of my state. People seem happy with theirs.

Wagguy80 · « **Reply #78 on:** November 03, 2012, 05:14:43 AM »

Well I did my research, looked at the CVA stalkers, and Scouts, and still purchased a Handi rifle. Why? $$$. Less than $350 out the door by the time I picked up a scope, and a box of ammo. Best local deal on a CVA scout? $299 Came down to that while I liked the Scout the Handi was cheaper, and I can get additional barrels for it. Also the aftermarket is in place for it so accessories abound.
I've been very happy with my purchase, and have no regrets. I know 17 other hunters in 3 different clubs who also have their ready for primitive season in 2 days.

Brian P. · « **Reply #79 on:** November 03, 2012, 06:33:35 PM »

Glad to hear it was just an ammo problem.
Also, voicing displeasure on a website is not the same as writing the manufacturer. A bunch of emails all stating basically the same thing may get some action. At the very least it would be a voice of not only consumers but fans of the brand. Just my $0.02

ironglow · « **Reply #80 on:** November 04, 2012, 03:00:44 PM »

cjrjck;
I have long had H&Rs and have enjoyed them. I still have a 3 0of them...with extra barrels..even though it was an H&R I traded in for the CVA. My concern is with the new people in charge..let's hope they either treat H&R with the respect it deserves or sells it to somebody who will. Sometimes I wonder if the bean counters in Cerebus can appreciate the value od single shot rifles. Do they understand that some guys will hunt with a single shot..even if a lever or semi-auto is available?

Ranger99 · « **Reply #81 on:** November 13, 2012, 04:38:12 PM »

got the handi back today.
new barrel with real spiral rifling,
not the zig-zag lightning bolt pattern
rifling that it came with. still haven't
got all the crud out of the bore. ran some
wet patches through and letting it soak.
cleaned b.p. guns that weren't this dirty.
not too bad on turn-around. what. . .two
two and a half weeks? but then again, the
crappy barrel should never have made it out
the factory door. maybe now i'll actually
get to use it.

bucmeister · « **Reply #82 on:** November 14, 2012, 02:03:09 AM »

Seems odd that it had any "crud" in the tube when it just came from the factory unless it is cosmolene (sp) or some other long term protection goop. What kind of stuff is it that has to be soaked out of the barrel? Hard for me to imagine them using anything at the factory that a wash down with WD-40 would not flush out.

Oh well, sure hope it going to be a shooter for you. Glad it was made right.

Ranger99 · « **Reply #83 on:** November 14, 2012, 07:12:23 AM »

don't have any correct size brushes
to run through, just jag and patches.
almost looks like a "leaded" bore.
one spot near the leade that won't
get shiny clean. don't have correct
rings anyhow and too late to get
ready - general season in full swing
now. and yes, at least they got it
back in a timely fashion, being in the midst
of season and all. have to give them that.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #84 on:** November 14, 2012, 10:37:21 AM »

An undersize by a bit, or a well worn brush for caliber, with some extra fine steel wool wrapped around will polish that out just fine.

Ranger99 · « **Reply #85 on:** November 14, 2012, 10:58:50 AM »

just got through running a couple of
jb patches through. had let some regular
bore cleaner soak overnight. still getting
dirty patches out. just soaked it down again
and gonna let it set again. i figured the jb
would cut a bunch and it did . hands and
patches and rags looked like i was doing a
brake job. tonight i'll put some kroil through
it again.

wmdron · « **Reply #86 on:** November 14, 2012, 11:20:48 PM »

Sadly I have to agree with most of the posts. I bought a Handi .223 back in the 90's, it is a good accurate rifle that has served me well for a number of years, so well in fact that when I decided 3 years ago that I could use a 22-250 I bought another Handi. The difference between the two rifles is pronounced to say the least. No matter what ammo I tried I could not get a decent group out of the newer rifle. I haven't tried to diagnose the specific problem with the rifle as I don't think it would be worth fixing. I am left with what I consider to be a lesson learned and a monument to the "buyer beware" adage. I will never buy another.

ironglow · « **Reply #87 on:** November 15, 2012, 12:56:06 AM »

Talked with the Winchester ammo people...UPS picks up the ammo today or tomorrow.. Hopefully, we will find out..