Author Topic: H&R better get their act together... (Read 5212 times)

gcrank1 · « **Reply #30 on:** October 12, 2012, 07:33:16 AM »

The 38-55 suffered from the wrong chamber (well, neck anyway) dimensions too and they finally fixed it about 6mo. before they discontinued the Target Model (go figure...). Before finalizing a barrel they ought to give it some real research and test a few. It would have to be cheaper than making a whole bunch wrong and having to deal with the disappointed customers, some to the point of disillusionment and lost market share.
Maybe the mothership is using H&R as a loss for tax purposes....

Spanky · « **Reply #31 on:** October 12, 2012, 10:14:39 AM »

The Scout is a far better (and cheaper) rifle than the Handi's plain and simple... and yes I do own both.

The last 3 new Handi's I bought were piles that should have never made it past QC. My Scout is at the far opposite end of the spectrum... the fit and finish is perfect, forearm attachment is way better, nice fluted barrel, smooth light trigger, etc... Remington doesn't care about the H&R line and it shows in their products.

The one thing I really don't understand is how some guys just refuse to admit that there's a problem. You shouldn't have to take your new Handi apart to do a trigger job... it should be decent from the factory. You shouldn't have to work on the forearm because it's way too tight and you have to pound the gun over your knee to open it... etc, etc, etc. The Scouts and Wizards don't seem to be having those issues. Why?? Because those companies are putting money into the line and producing some really good guns. Remington could (and should) be doing the same thing instead of sitting on their laurels while the line goes down the toilet. Sad but true.

Spanky

bucmeister · « **Reply #32 on:** October 12, 2012, 11:01:56 AM »

RE: CVA Scout 7mm-08, wonder how much the fluted barrels can be bored out. Wondering if the 7-08 could be bored into a 358Win. If memory is correct the 7mm is a .284 so taking .074 out would give the .358.

Guess I need to look up the guy that advertises such services here and ask.

Looks like it is JES Reboring and a 4 groove would run $250 per the website.

Wagguy80 · « **Reply #33 on:** October 12, 2012, 11:35:43 AM »

Can't say the Scout is cheaper around here a scout 35 whelen is $40 more than a H&R .444 marlin and thats the everyday price on the H&R vs the 1 week sale price on the Scout.

If your finding them cheaper my hats off to you, but I've yet to find them anywhere at an actual shop cheaper than a H&R.

I just got a new H&R in .444 marlin and have no complaints. Definitely not as nice as say my fathers CVA Stalker .45-70 but then again I can send it off next year, and get a .243 barrel, and have some fun with coyotes with it.

ironglow · « **Reply #34 on:** October 12, 2012, 05:07:42 PM »

The temptation got to me...I brought the Scout home with me. A low power scope atop it should give me a good "woods" gun for deer and/or black bears.
So this season, it will be either my new Ruger American .308 Win or the .44 mag Scout, depending upon either conditions..or my whim....

Spanky · « **Reply #35 on:** October 13, 2012, 03:31:32 PM »

Smart move on the 44 IG.

You're gonna like it.
Keep us in the loop on the American too will ya?? I handled one the other day and seriously considering bringing one home with me. If the reviews are right Ruger's got themselves a good gun for cheap money.

Spanky

ironglow · « **Reply #36 on:** October 13, 2012, 03:34:21 PM »

Will do..plan on hitting my "gravel pit range" this coming week.
I put a little Tasco Bantam 2.5X20 on top..which should work just about right for deep woods work..

ironglow · « **Reply #37 on:** October 15, 2012, 11:22:15 AM »

Spanky;
Can you tell me anything about ammo & loads for the CVA .44 mag..what have you tried?
I have yet to get some ammo or components. It's for our NY big game season..

trotterlg · « **Reply #38 on:** October 15, 2012, 05:23:07 PM »

Walmart has Savage Axis in 30-06 for $277.00 now. Hard to compare the value of that and a H&R. Larry

Spanky · « **Reply #39 on:** October 15, 2012, 10:48:58 PM »

Quote from: ironglow on October 15, 2012, 11:22:15 AM

Spanky;
Can you tell me anything about ammo & loads for the CVA .44 mag..what have you tried?
I have yet to get some ammo or components. It's for our NY big game season..

The Winchester white box 240gr. softpoint ammo shoots great and hammers deer. I handload 240gr. XTP's over H110 also with great results. Tell you the truth the only thing I've tried that didn't shoot well was a box of 44 Special cowboy ammo... it shot about 2" group at 100 yds and it was dirty. $:-\$

Spanky

ironglow · « **Reply #40 on:** October 16, 2012, 02:50:08 AM »

Thanks Spanky, I'll look for the Winchester white box...Reloads will be either XTPs or Federal Fusions

Singlebarrel · « **Reply #41 on:** October 16, 2012, 03:49:47 AM »

I have posted my H & R 44 Mag rifle problems here before and do not want to get into all the gory details, so will summarize. After purchasing a new gun, then trying to break in and sight in what eventually turned in to one replacement rifle and a total of 4 barrels, I spent way too much money on ammo and way too much time and missed two primative weapon seasons. I still do not have a gun with hunting accuracy. This problem started in 2009 and continued through 2011 when I eventually gave up. I took the last barrel to my gunsmith. It took him about 5 seconds to see that the crown was in terrible shape and there was a large flaw, as gouge of some kind in the rifling about an inch or so from the muzzle.
We may try to cut the barrel down past the flaw and recrown it after hunting season. I don't know. At some point you have to fold them and walk away.
I have three older H & Rs that work well. When I purchased a 35 Whelen recently it was a Thompson Center. Absent the 44 Mag experience, that Whelen would have been another H & R. I cannot afford to buy another cheap rifle. I was originally high on the H & R and the business was theirs to lose. They lost it.

26-t · « **Reply #42 on:** October 16, 2012, 09:21:47 AM »

I went to Cranes Country Store at Williamsburg Mo today for lunch,and Chuck had a Ruger American in 308. It is a REAL fine rifle for $350 out the door price.

Ranger99 · « **Reply #43 on:** October 24, 2012, 03:40:16 PM »

been trying for the last hour to
take a photo of this brand new
.444 barrel with the L.S.D. induced
rifling. never saw such slipshod work
in my life. the rifling is actually in a zig-zag
pattern from the muzzle to about 6 inches down.
got it here, ran some patches through
to remove any grease or chips, and
thought W*&%$##%$ ? ? ?
i think well. . . .maybe there is a
burr in there. looked inside with a bore
light and about fell over. never saw
any lightning-bolt pattern rifling before

SLIP-FREAKING-SHOD!

ironglow · « **Reply #44 on:** October 24, 2012, 03:46:25 PM »

Well, I guess the pre-Marlington H&R rifles should hold their value well.
What a shame that such slip-shod work should be taking place with our once great H&R rifles....

Ranger99 · « **Reply #45 on:** October 24, 2012, 03:53:29 PM »

aren't these barrels (or any barrel
from anywhere) supposed to be
test fired first before shipping?

i don't see how a round would
have made it through without
banana-peeling or at least a
hellava commotion.

i'm pissed and sad beyond words. . . . .

Ranger99 · « **Reply #46 on:** October 24, 2012, 03:54:23 PM »

gotta call 'em tomorrow and
send it back i guess. . .

Ranger99 · « **Reply #47 on:** October 24, 2012, 03:55:00 PM »

wish i coulda got a photo. . .

Wagguy80 · « **Reply #48 on:** October 24, 2012, 04:10:04 PM »

Amazing my .444 rifling is spot on. There is definitely a quality control problem. Can't imagine how the rifling would zig-zag Would love to see a picture of it though.

Curious anybody know how Handi rifle barrels are made? I doubt they are hammer forged. I'm guessing button rifled as it's the cheapest, and fastest way to produce a barrel.

Ranger99 · « **Reply #49 on:** October 24, 2012, 04:16:05 PM »

you'd need a photo of the look
on my face to go with it.
i tried to take a photo, but the
good for nothing digital p.o.s.
camera won't do what i want it
to unlike the useless nikon in the
closet i cant get film for.

bought a .357 about a year ago
and it's a tack driver.

piss poor poor poor poor poor q.c.

how does something like that
get out the door?

$:-\$

bucmeister · « **Reply #50 on:** October 24, 2012, 04:24:04 PM »

Well we can carry on all we want to about H&R and Remington, but the reality of fact is that it sounds like there are some machining operators that need to have been FIRED LAST YEAR if not before!! I seriously doubt someone in the front office said make some barrels with wavy rifling, gouges in the barrel, etc., maybe these workers are similar to the United Auto Workers that the hidden video reporters caught smoking pot and downing quarts of beer on their lunch breaks.

I can blame QC and the Company for letting us see the work by it being released to the market, but the REAL PROBLEM is the slip shod work being done by the person operating the machine much more so than the management in the front office. If the front office has the workers ticked off and the workers are deliberately putting out crap work then it is still the worker that is screwing the buying public.

Ranger99 · « **Reply #51 on:** October 24, 2012, 05:07:27 PM »

yes the worker who " rifled " this barrel
is not a craftsman , but a sorry a&&.
the manager who is supposed to oversee
the worker - samey same
the q.c. inspector who let it out to the
buying public - ditto
they're supposed to be a team- all working
for the same brand

that's a big part of what's wrong with america
" that's not my job" don't cut it with me

bucmeister · « **Reply #52 on:** October 24, 2012, 06:01:17 PM »

Agreed!

Jimbo47 · « **Reply #53 on:** October 25, 2012, 02:32:41 AM »

Quality supposed to start at the craftsman level, and all work done should be stamped or signed off by each person who does the work. Quality control should also be at a high level and not let anything get passed that doesn't meet the specs.
I've worked in manufacturing in years passed, and it appears the big green today doesn't take it's manufacturing seriously.

mechanic · « **Reply #54 on:** October 25, 2012, 02:49:30 AM »

Gun sales are at an all time high. All the mf are running at full tilt. I suspect the least profitable section of the company gets the least amt. of effort by management.

The H&R fills a niche that has been it's to hold for some years. Not all the new guns are bad, just a few, so I hope they get back to where they need to be.

I will still trade and collect the older ones, and if I want a new one, just inspect it closely.

Ben

gcrank1 · « **Reply #55 on:** October 25, 2012, 04:57:49 AM »

I worked in a few manufacturing facilities on the line and in maintenance; some weird (sick) people occasionally got kicks from deliberately screwing things up just to see what would happen, other times it was the machinery going bad (and be sure, lots of this is now automated). Inspections should have caught it way before it got shipped out. It would be interesting to find out when it was made and if/when the process has been tightened up.
As for being on the receiving end I truly sympathize, I'd be p***ed too. Bright side is you didnt spend X dollars and how much time in frustration trying to get it to shoot.

ironglow · « **Reply #56 on:** October 25, 2012, 05:03:11 AM »

OK; so some gun companies are still featuring quality..some are developing quality products and making improvements to existing products. Some are great values and the mother company should be gaining.
All that being said, I'm doing a bit of research as to what company to invest in..providing they are publicly traded. Here's how I see it thusfar, what say you?

A) CVA & Thompson Center..will be taking up the slack from H&R...and have been making great strides recently.

B) Ruger..The American is not only making a hit here for it's dollar/value quotient, but it is making inroads into Europe

C) Savage... For it's imsistance on ACCURACY...which is bringing up it's reputation, along with sales.

D) Mossberg... To take up Remington's shotgun slippage.

I know some will vehemently disagree..so let's hear it...

gcrank1 · « **Reply #57 on:** October 25, 2012, 05:21:50 AM »

But...........this is the H&R Forum........

In the memorable words of Chief Dan George (In ' Josey Wales),"Endeavor to persevere".

Jimbo47 · « **Reply #58 on:** October 25, 2012, 06:18:51 AM »

All of us here love our Handi's, but we are only fooling ourselves by continuing to make excuses for them. It is what it is, and if they don't fix the problems they won't be around when the competition passes them by.

jjas · « **Reply #59 on:** October 25, 2012, 07:08:20 AM »

I own a Scout in .44 magnum and a handi in .357. I paid $300.00 for the scout and $289.00 for the handi. The scout has a lifetime warranty (we'll see how that works in the future).
The handi is a bit heavier (which I like), but the scout has a shorter hammer, comes with a nice scope mount and a better designed stock and recoil pad. The overall fit and finish of the scout is better than on the handi. The design of the handi has stood the test of time. The accuracy @ 100 yards from both is good (1 1/2" groups from a bench).
Now the big question....Which do I prefer? Overall I prefer the scout, but the handi is proven and I like the peace of mind that comes with it.
I guess (for now) I'll keep them both......