926 yard handgun antelope kill (video)

[teddy12b]

Two things I've learned about long range shooting. 
 
1.)  A cold bore hit on target over 900 yards takes a lot of practice, load development, discipline and the amount of time that most americans use to watch cars drive around in circles on TV.  This shot was simply outstanding and I am very impressed.
 
2.)  If/when you make a shot, even with a video for proof you'd just be better off not telling anyone.  You usually get one of three reactions when you tell someone that you've developed the skills and equipment to make a shot at 1000 yards.  A.)  They call the BS card because they can't even conceive of how to make the same shot.  B.)  They think it's the coolest thing they ever heard, or C.) They think it sounds cool but don't know enough about long range shooting to realize it's a consitant game of math and judgement so they question the ethics of it. 
 
Trying to explain to some people that a long range shot is perfectly acceptable and a proven part of you shooting background is a lot like trying to explain to a demacrat why government spending is bad, you're just better off not wasting your breath cause the genious will never understand.

[BUGEYE]

Mikey, thx for clarifying some things so I can take this opportunity to say that I believes smales claim of outshooting scoped rifles at 200yds, offhand, with a sixgun is a figment of his imagination.
he certainly could not do it with the guys I used to hunt with.

[Bugflipper]

Doulos, you are off base. I have never made a long range shot with a pistol on any animal. So your statement about my intent is incorrect. I do however have a pet peave of others trashing a member because of his particular method of hunting. If legal, he is within his rights to do so. There is never a negative post about a fellow blowing up a prarie dog at 900 yards. Throw a big game animal into the mix and tempers flair. As stated I can care less on the subject since I will never attempt a shot at that range with a pistol. Just providing a different prospective for the sake of discussion. No matter the method the animal is taken it will endure pain. It is our responsibility as hunters to try to be as humane as possible. Yet in the end they are food. As for fellows placing the lives of animals at a higher level than humans, well that is a trait of many animal rights groups with PETA being the most popular, has nothing to do with how far a shot is made.

[BUGEYE]

I stated that If it had been legal, I would have used a 22 since my shots are under 50yds and rodent said that would be unethical.  I see people talking 2 ways here and I never called sixgunner unethical.

[yellowtail3]

I've yet to hear a deer whine, whimper or show any sign of pain from an arrow shot.  They just run like hell, whether hit or miss.

a doe I spined with a broadhead a couple years ago bleated. I since it would have taken a few minutes to get down from the climber, I shot her twice more. Good eating...

[Shu]

Amazing shot, Congratulations. The shot is well beyond my skill level.
 
Hunting is about harvesting game . Hunting is about testing your skills. The shooter did both.
He took the time to develop the skill to shoot at that distance. Truly an amazing feat.

[Lloyd Smale]

well pal you must hunt with a higher caliber hunter then thats around here. We have a little test at camp we put a pie plate up and give anyone who shows 5 shots at it. Its very  very rare to see any of the locals put 5 shots on a plate at a 100 yards. Ive done it many times in front of witnesses with a sixgun and have put 4 out of 5 on the plate at 200 on many occasions. Ive also won the long range shoot at the linebaugh seminar in cody in 44 class in front of many witnesses. It took putting out of  4 out of 5 shots on a 3/4 sized steel buffalo at  800 yards and that my friend was off hand and like i said in front of at least 30 witnesses. My best friend Al took the 45 475 and 500 class with 14 straight hits and one that just barely missed. think you can do much better with your 270! Your statement is typical of someone who just doesnt understand what a good revolver will do in the hands of someone that knows how to shoot. Its understandable because most shooters who come to the range are blown away when they see what can be done at even a 100 yards. If you doubt any of this take a ride to cody some spring and check out a linebaugh seminar. Youll meet some of the best pistol shots in the country there. Like Johns son dustin who used his 4 5/8s 475 vaquero to kill a grizzly at a 190 yards again off hand. Im a very honest man. Theres no bs in me. Your welcome to come anytime and watch me do just what i said i can do. Ive personal watched at least one other guy on this fourm out shoot me at 300 yards with a sixgun. He goes by 44man and the boy can shoot. So if it was a figment of my imagination or a dream its kind of funny that others have seen it happen. I can see how you could doubt it. when i was 20 years old if you told me that id have probably laughed at you but ive found through the years that just like in any sport there are just some people that do better then others and no matter how good you think you are theres always a bunch of guys that will teach you a lesson or two. Elmer keith taught us that long range handgunning was a possibilty he did some impressive shooting and did it only practiceing with maybe 50 to a 100 shots a week as thats all he could afford. I know guys that average well over that a day. My father also taught me that a GENTLEMAN never calls another a lier unless hes got proof and is standing face to face.

Mikey, thx for clarifying some things so I can take this opportunity to say that I believes smales claim of outshooting scoped rifles at 200yds, offhand, with a sixgun is a figment of his imagination.
he certainly could not do it with the guys I used to hunt with.

[BUGEYE]

Lloyd, this is the www and people make all kinds of claims.  yes I did hunt with a very high quality group of hunters.  I wasn't in their league because I tremble.  there was some pretty good handgun shots there too.  the club was a year-round club where they and their familys shot constantly.
it finally became too costly for me.  I would put them up against anyone.  and no, I respectfully disbelieve.

edited to add.  do you go along with every claim you read on here?  I did NOT call you a liar.
I just think you imagine things.

[sidewinder319]

The problem is not with hunters who take the time and effort to do it right regardless of range. The problem is with the idots that don't take the time to prepare for the shot. I have seen for more wounded Prairie Goats at less than one hundred yards.  After the Antelope season ends you will see far more wounded animals near the roads than in the area beyoned the roads.

[sixshot]

I do not personally know Lloyd, but he has a very fine reputation for both shooting & honesty & everyone who has actaully seen him shoot will tell you exactly the same thing. Everyone should do some actual competition shooting or at least attend a match sometime to really get their eyes opened as to what is possible with a sixgun or a longe range specialty handgun.
  Many years ago when Handloader & Rifle magazine first came on board (late 60's) there was a shooter from up around Seattle who took an XP100 & built, or had it built into a benchrest handgun. One of those publications was the official magazine of the NBRSA. After a few months the rifle boys cried foul, they said he had an edge because most of them couldn't touch him...true story, wish I could remember his name.
  He admitted that because the grip of the handgun set on top of the bags that it was quite easy to beat the snot out of some of the finest benchrest shooters in the country, & he enjoyed it a great deal!
  Now Lloyd, don't tell me you've got into shooting beer cans like 44man, That WOULD be unethical!!
 
Dick
 

[Rodent]

I stated that If it had been legal, I would have used a 22 since my shots are under 50yds and rodent said that would be unethical.  I see people talking 2 ways here and I never called sixgunner unethical.

In your original post, you said nothing of legality and you changed the distance as well. You have changed your post. The below was what you said:
 
  Quote from: BUGEYE on July 17, 2011, 08:37:10 AM

If those things could happen at 10 paces.  how would the odds change at 1000 paces?
I could make a head shot on a deer at 100yds with my 22, but what if it misses the brain and breaks his jaw?  he'll suffer a slow miserable death.

And below is my response:
"Shooting a deer with a 22 is what is unethical, not the distance."

[Lloyd Smale]

well bugeye ive shot in front of guys like john linebaugh, hamilton bowen. Jim wilson and many more names youd recognize if you were around the gun industry so i guess impressing you isnt a consern. I also have a well earned reputatation for being a very honest man so again your opinion means little to me. I take my shooting seriously. I have more money tied up in my loading room then some have in there homes. But then im probably imagining that too. I see by looking at your post history that 99pecent of it is in off topic and political sections of this foum. Its kind of obvious that your more into arguing then  shooting  and not much of a judge of what a real shooter can do. Yes like you said this is www. Maybe you should shut off the computer and go out and shoot enough to find out for yourself what a sixgun is capable of instead of posting your preconsieved ideas of there limits. A couple hundred rounds of factory ammo a year will never make you a shooter. Spend a couple years doing a least that in a week and come back to me with your opinion and i might put some value in it.  Im done with this post. Ive wasted enough of my time fighting emotion with logic.

[Rodent]

Very. Very well said there Lloyd Smale.

[BUGEYE]

I stated that If it had been legal, I would have used a 22 since my shots are under 50yds and rodent said that would be unethical.  I see people talking 2 ways here and I never called sixgunner unethical.

In your original post, you said nothing of legality and you changed the distance as well. You have changed your post. The below was what you said:
 
  Quote from: BUGEYE on July 17, 2011, 08:37:10 AM

If those things could happen at 10 paces.  how would the odds change at 1000 paces?
I could make a head shot on a deer at 100yds with my 22, but what if it misses the brain and breaks his jaw?  he'll suffer a slow miserable death.

And below is my response:
"Shooting a deer with a 22 is what is unethical, not the distance."

rodent the key word is "could"  but I wouldn't because of the chance of breaking a jaw at 100yds.
at 50yds I feel like I could keep the shot in the kill zone every time on a standing deer.  the kill zone being between the eye and the ear hole.  they drop like a rock with a 22 to the brain.

[BUGEYE]

Lloyd,  when people toot their own horn I figure they're blowing smoke.

[DanChamberlain]

Can't kill something unless you hurt it.  Can't take a shot without risking missing.  There's always a risk.  No matter how good you are, there are times when you miss.  That's part of the story.  I'm fortunate.  Hunted deer a lot of years.  Only wounded two, but that's two I wish I hadn't wounded.  Still, I took a fat doe with an open sighted .45-70 at a range that required 18-20 inches hold over the back and she ran about 30 yards.  I believe I was ready for that shot, but in retrospect, I probably wouldn't try it again. 


The video was cool.  I'd wager that for every hit at that distance, there was probably a miss as well.  I'd also wager, that even with the shooter involved, given 20 such shots, there would probably be a few wounds involved as well. 


I'm not necessarily supportive of "experimentation with bleeding targets."  Still, I spent a lot of my misspent youth with an open sighted Ruger .22 pistol, shooting at little striped gophers out to 100 yards.  Killed a lot of them and didn't kill a whole lot more.  I'm sure I wounded my share. 


Ethics can become a ridiculous discussion.  I do 99% of my hunting with single shots.  When I make a shot, I sit there quietly and let the animal go.  Some would say that not carrying a gun that allows for a quick follow up shot is unethical.  They'd be idiots in my book. 


Still, 925 yards this time, 1000 the next time, 1050 the time after that?  At some point, the range and conditions and capability, guarantee failure due to the elements of chance.  Hopefully, failure equates to a clean miss.


The thing that bugs me in most hunting videos isn't ethics.  It's laughter.


Dan

[BUGEYE]

DanChamberlain,  that is the best written response to this whole fiasco. you are the most sensible person here (myself included) thanks.

[billy_56081]

I laugh when I kill something, it means it was fun. I have never harvested or taken an animal in my life but I have killed a whole bunch of them.  I could really care less what some treetard thinks of me or my killing.
 
Again great kill on the video and thank you for sharing.

[gr8ful]

I am new to Specialty pistols having just bought my TC Encore 15" 25-06 last year and my Contender with 12" 45-70, 10" 7 TCU, 10" 256 Win, and 14" 22lr this year (it is a sickness, but that is a whole different topic).  Up until then most of my handgun hunting has been with revolvers.  I have taken deer with .357 mag, 41 mag, 44 mag, and 45 LC along with hogs, heck,most years I get a hog with my Buckmark 22lr.  Almost all were shot inside 50yrds because that was my self-imposed limit for the type of terrain I hunt.  However I do know that the top of the red insert on my S&W 57 .41 puts me on at 100yrds, and the bottom of the insert is a little high at 200 yrds with the load that i regularly shoot in it, I know this because I like to mess with the LE guys at the range by whanging the gongs at distances they think are impossible with a 4" revolver. (don't ask how many rounds it took to home in on that 200 yrd plate!) Point is since starting to shoot SP's My idea of long range with a handgun has changed, 200 yrds with the scoped encore is a gimme, and 100 yrds with the 7tcu and 256 are easy even over the irons, and I am getting pretty consistent with the 45-70 to 100 but the recoil has a learning curve.  Practice and preparation make the shot.
 
Lloyds claim of outshooting the rifle guys doesn't surprise me, take a trip to a range on a busy saturday before hunting season, and watch people shoot, while there are always an outstanding few, there is a bigger number who are Minute-of-backstop, these are usually the guys who just come out to fire a shot or two to check their scope and have been shooting the same box of ammo since 1992.
 
As far as the long shot in the video, it is beyond my capabilities, but kudo's to the shooter!!
and as far as ethics go, I have mine and you have yours. The reason we have laws is to draw a line that no-one should cross, any other "ethics" are self imposed.  The Shooter didn't break any laws and made a clean kill, with an impressive shot, in my book , no foul.  We should keep our ethics to ourselves where they belong.
 
 

[SHOOTALL]

Lloyd,  when people toot their own horn I figure they're blowing smoke.

[xphunter]

Where I live, there seems to be a belief that guys in WY are good shooters because of the wide open spaces. 
Maybe it is the new implants, but it is not completely true.
A friend of mine recently bought a new MOA Maximum specialty pistol in 6.5x47 Lapua/123 SMK's. 
He had never grouped a gun at 100 yards in his life, and has not ever hunted. 
I have been teaching him precision reloading and let him use one of my scopes (NF) in preparation for the MOA LR handgun shoot that took place this last June.
His very first time out he out shot the guys around him shooting rifles, with the exception of an old BR shooter. 
He was shooting under MOA at 100 yards each time.
I have shot groups with his MOA in the upper .1's and low .2's @ 100 yards. 
It is a shooter for sure.
First, this was bench shooting, and second his MOA is extremely accurate, with a good rest and very light trigger pull. 
Several weeks later he had 5-shot groups on paper at 500, 750, and 1K.
Now, he is hooked and wants to become better, and work on field shooting.  He hopes to hunt this fall, but LR hunting is not in his plans, nor would I encourage it at this point in his shooting skill.
Also, I do not see his cartridge as one to be used for distance shooting on game.
Most of the LR shooters I know in the Gillette area do not practice at the local range, but still many people cannot believe how good a SP can shoot most of the time.
I don't shoot revolvers much, but when I am prepping for a tactical match I shoot my semi's to 50 yards on a regular basis, and at 100 yards for fun, but many are surprised how good a well tuned semi can shoot.

[SHOOTALL]

Lloyd,  when people toot their own horn I figure they're blowing smoke.

Was my post out of line ? it was deleted for why ?

[jimster]

Well my take is that was one helliva a shot, took skill, patience, and waiting for the right moment, wind conditions, and obviously a whole heap of practice and load testing.  In my younger days I have popped woodchucks out to what I thought was a long ways...winged a couple in the process, but as I remember still was able to finish them off.  Well..one maybe got to his hole, I bet that hurt some.  And those ranges were nothing like I saw here.  Good shooting...heck good shooting don't sound right...perfect shooting I'd say.  Don't want to get caught up the ethics argument here, but those animals in the wild have a whole lot more pain to contend with than a bullet,  if they live long enough to be old they have horrible deaths anyways in the end.  Good shooting,  awesome trigger control, concentration and figuring. 
 
 

[Dee]

I suppose then, upon removing the stock from a shotgun, and mounting a pistol grip, somehow transforms a shotgun, into a shotpistol? Hardly! While I don't consider a rifle action, barrel, and cartridge with a mounted bipod, sans only the butt stock, by any means a pistol, as it is not. I do concur that it was a hell of a shot, and almost 200 yards better, than my best with a rifle.
As far as shooting postion? A bipod mounted rifle (with or without the buttstock) in a prone postion is as good as any bench with practice. You obviously have much of the later. It was indeed an outstanding shot, but a spade is still a spade, even if the handle has been shortened. Congrats!

[Mikey]

Shootall:  I haven't deleted anything and I do not think your post inappropriate.  After all, you do have the freedom to express yourself on this forum......

[Lloyd Smale]

we will have to disagree a bit there dee. I personaly dont care much about single shot handguns whether they be tc style or bolt guns but its just my peronal preference. I used them when i started handgun hunting and at the range most of my shots were taken it just didnt add any challange to the hunt. But that been said they still are a handgun and have to be registered as such and im surely not the one to stand judgement on someone who uses one by saying there not a handgun hunter. Just like im not going to say that a crossbow hunter isnt a  bow hunter or that someone who uses a scoped  ar15 to hunt deer is any less of a rifle hunter then i am with my open sighted lever gun.

[SHOOTALL]

Shootall:  I haven't deleted anything and I do not think your post inappropriate.  After all, you do have the freedom to express yourself on this forum......

I have from time to time moved on forgetting to hit the post block but this time the text was only missing , Oh well ! guess it was a glitch 

[Dee]

Well Lloyd, this is indeed a forum of opinions, and although we might disagree on the definition of a handgun, I think we can agree it was a hell of a shot.
As far as the other categories you brought up, the crossbow, in my opinion is string fired, but is a "mutation" of the bow, as is the weapon this thread is about concerning the rifle. I hope that I don't end up with the crossbow but, old injuries constantly invoke themselves into my life, changing my way of doing something. The scope is yet another that is slowly but surly forcing it's way "back" into my world.
The Marbles Tang sight has pushed it back out in the realm of lever actions. Let us pray that I can continue to find smaller apertures as I continue to find birthdays. On the other hand, another birthday is not so bad at the present. It represents life, does it not?

[BUGEYE]

the crossbow is as old as the longbow and older than the recurve. nothing wrong with using one.

[SHOOTALL]

handguns started off single shot and some were long back in the day. Some were break open action after cart ammo showed up. Lots of folks don't like the idea of calling say an XP-100 a handgun . Well it fits the discription. The ones I have owned were more accurate than any rifle I have owned. That's tuff for some to understand and accept. After shooting IMHSA I hunted with the hand rifles for a time then settled on Big Bore revolvers with stright wall cases. My choice and just because I like big revolvers.
 One thing is the long hand rifles don't appeal to all but should we let ourselves be divided ?