Just picked up an H&R Classic Carbine in .45 Colt...

[MacTech]

I guess I'm starting to suffer from the initial symptoms of Handiholism, a few days ago I saw a new CC .45 Colt in my local gun store and I was intrigued, an affordable rifle chambered in one of my favorite cartridges, the venerable .45 Colt....

The gears started turning...

The next time I was in the gunshop (I live a quick five minute drive away), I discovered that they had a LNIB used CC, unfired, I put it on seven-day hold, then drove back to the house to see what I would be willing to part with in trade, about a half hour later, I went back to get the CC (world's shortest 7-day hold? )

I traded out of two lesser-used firearms and was able to get the CC for no money out of pocket, a straight trade (well, not including the accursed sales tax, that is....), it's in great shape, there was a little surface rust from being handled by the Unwashed Masses, but that cleaned right up with 000 steel wool, some CLP, and elbow grease, finished off with a RIG-RAG

I haven't shot it yet, and am looking forward to doing so this Sunday, in the meantime, I'm polishing up some fired brass in my tumbler and will reload some rounds for use on Sunday, I do have a few rounds of commercial .45 Colt left from my previous range session, I bought it just to see how my handloads compared (my handloads were *better*, as expected ), and I picked up a box of Winchester 225Gr Silvertip HP cartridges, mainly to deal with a Coydog (Coyote-Dog hybrid) problem weve been having recently, so I'll have *something* to punch paper with on Sunday

It'll go well with my 7.5" Ruger Blackhawk .45 Convertible (.45 ACP and .45 Colt cylinders), I'm a manual-action kinda' guy at heart, not too much of a fan of those "newfangled" autoloaders, the only autos I own are a Ruger 10/22, a Ruger 22/45, and a Kimber Custom II 1911

Only problem is now I feel the "need" for the Buffalo Classic in .45-70 coming, and the .45-70 would be massive overkill here in southern coastal Maine, but darnit....
<Gollum>
We Wants it, we wantsss the precious, yesss we do, Gollum!
</Gollum>

One final question, how much pressure can this gun take, looking at that massive steel breech, I'd guess it could handle some of the "low end" "Ruger Only" nuclear loads, but according to H&R, all they can say is that the gun is designed to handle SAAMII pressures only

[Lon371]

 Sweet rifle. Let us know how she shoots.

Lonny

[S.E.Ak]

Folks here have rechambered to 460 S&W and 454 Casull so it will handle your tuffest 45 colt load

[cwlongshot]

Folks here have rechambered to 460 S&W and 454 Casull so it will handle your tuffest 45 colt load

YUP! Mine is a 454 and it shoots very nicely.



CW

[Rustyinfla]

  Congratulations Mac,

  That is a really nice looking piece. Handloading will bring out the best in her.

[rsl]

Love mine.. Only shot it once with some cheap Blazer ammo.. 200 grain hollow points.. Fun gun.. Good luck.

[Gohon]

MacTech, I have the same gun and I am pushing a 314 grain gas checked cast at 1535 fps which is 1643 muzzle fpe with no problems.  Good accuracy and no signs of pressure.  A 255 grain SWC/GC cast leaves that same barrel at 1723 fps and 1881 fpe.  I recommend you get a good slip on recoil pad for shooting at the bench as that steel curved butt plate will remind you what you just shot.  Don't use it in the field but at the bench it is needed. 

[quickdtoo]

Congrats on the new BC Carbine!!  Lots of posts on it, if you want hot loads for it, here's a good read, 300gr at 2000fps is doable in the Colt. I shot 250gr jacketed at a little over 1900fps using the 250gr Speer GDHP and Lil'gun using 250gr Hodgdon TC/Ruger data in mine before I rechambered it to 460 S&W which shoots 200gr Hornady factory ammo almost 2900fps, so don't worry about +P Colt loads. 

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,218588.msg1099188519.html#msg1099188519

[dangerranger]

That looks like some nice wood. mine shoots best with jacketed bullits or with lead sized to .454. Im using mine as a close quarters pig gun. I cast some 300 gr bullits but havent had a chance to try them yet. good luck with yours DR

[quickdtoo]

MacTech, be sure to read the Handi Basics 101 sticky if you haven't already, since this is your first post here(actually moved from the SS forum) and you appear to be an H&R rifle newbie, it will insure your first range trip is a success instead of a disappointment.  

Tim

[MacTech]

I may be a newb to GBO, but not to the H&R firearms, I've owned a .22 Sportster in the past, had to sell it and a bunch of guns when money got tight for a while (layoff/unemployment/underemployment stuff), but now I'm back, with a new job with a *STABLE* company, how stable? well, in this economy, they're actually *hiring*, and have so much work that they had to start a second shift crew to keep up with incoming machines (computerized cash register/self check out repair)

Anyway, the BC .45LC is not my first Handi, I also have a sweet little Topper Deluxe Classic 20 gauge that I love, as well as Dad's old original iron-framed H&R Topper (spoon shaped opening lever on the back) 12 gauge

the BC .45 is my first H&R centerfire though...

and yes, I've read the FAQ and basics threads, lotsa good info there

I'm thinking about picking up another rimfire Handi in the near future as well, probably a .17HMR, as I have plenty of .22LR, and want some variety

What is it about these things that are so sodding addictive anyway?

[quickdtoo]

I dunno what it is about em, but I've got 47 of em, I know I don't "need" any more, but there are still thoughts of a new one creeping into my thoughts all too often, I have four 45-70s, three Handis and an SS Ultra Hunter, also have three 45-70 BCs right now, a 45-70, a 45-120 and an extra that I'm still considering what I want it to be.....maybe a 45-90, dunno yet.   

Tim

[LC '92]

CDNN has these little jewels for $229.00! Just got mine yesterday! Great fit and finish and the best factory trigger I have ever had.

[MacTech]

Range report time!

This gun was a used gun, but it was unfired, basically it was LNIB, so I'm not going to make any accuracy judgements until I get at least 100-200 rounds down the barrel...

Distance to target; 45 yards
no wind, air temps around 38F
Stock semi-buckhorn irons

Ammo used;
Bullseye 250Gn LRNFP
Winchester Silvertip HP 225Gn
Handloaded cartridges; 8 Gn Win231 under a Better Bullets 200Gn LSWC, OAL 1.600
50 rounds in total

The first rounds I shot were the 250Gn Bullseyes, I was a tad trepidatious as I lined up on target and pulled the trigger, not knowing what to expect, recoil-wise, after all, it *is* a .45...
The hammer fell, striking the transfer bar, the transfer bar striking the firing pin, the firing pin striking the primer, the primer igniting the main powder charge , the main powder charge driving the 250 Gn chunk of lead down the barrel, on a journey to the paper target, the bullet struck home...
<BOOM!>
The low, meaty roar of the .45 Colt filled the air, gotta love that big, boomy report

It hit a tad low, so I fired off two more rounds to make sure, I adjusted the sights accordingly, and was hitting minute-of-deer on the target, I know the barrel needs time to shoot-in, so I'm not gonna gripe about the groups, they ranged from 1.5" to almost touching depending on how I gripped the gun and how it rested on the stand, I'm still new to the rifle, so I'm figuring out the best hold that works for me

I see this trip as a function test only, to make sure the gun opens, fires, and ejects reliably, and so far, it's been 100% reliable, accuracy isn't an issue right now, especially when I'm switching between ammo types without cleaning the bore

As far as the gun itself, my concerns over recoil were completely unfounded, this gun is a *pussycat* with SAAMII pressure loads, yes, even with the steel buttplate, no recoil pad is needed, first of all, recoil is negligible, it feels only marginally stronger than a .22LR, and is the typical .45 caliber "slow, firm shove", I'd guess the recoil impulse is about that of a .22 Mag, and that's with all three cartridge types fired, in fact, of the three cartridge types fired, my "hot" handloads (8.0 Gn 231 under a 200Gn LSWC is the "max" load according to the Winchester website) had the strongest recoil, but even that was absolutely nothing to be concerned about

Of the three cartridge types fired, it seemed to like the Bullseye 250's, it *LOVED* my 200Gn LSWC loads, and shot the tightest groups with them, and it *HATED* the Silvertip HP's, patterns were all over the paper, my LSWC's also punched those nice sharp, clean holes that I love so much, as opposed to the raggedy holes the Bullseye and Winchesters shot

The chamber also appears to be the correct size, as does the bore, .452 lead bullets went through with no problem, no leading, the empties easily pulled out of the breech, and they dropped into the breech just fine when reloaded, the fired brass also dropped right in to every cylinder on my Ruger NM Blackhawk .45 Convertible's .45 Colt cylinder, no binding or sticking at all, and they dropped free when I inverted the gun, no need to use the ejector rod

This is a rifle I'd have *NO* problem handing to a novice shooter to let them try, the recoil is *that* tame, heck, I can rest the rifle on a benchrest, not even hold the foregrip, tuck it into my shoulder and fire it, the muzzle barely rises, this is a *great* rifle

And the fact that it can handle "Ruger Only" "Nuclear" loads is just icing on the cake (mmmm....cake....), I don't think I'd ever shoot those "Nuclear" loads, but it's nice to know the gun can handle it

On a side note, I'm really not happy with the Semi-Buckhorn rear sight, sure it looks cool and all, but it's a lot less precise than I was expecting, the next upgrade this gun will get will be a set of peep sights, the buckhorn will get scrapped and a blanking plate put over it's dovetail

I'm also contemplating whether to scope it or not, I like the lines and quick handling of the iron sights, but I also like the precision afforded by a scope, if I *did* scope it, I'm not sure what I should use, on the one hand, setting it up as a hunting rifle with a low mag zoom scope would work, but I also like the high-mag precision target shooting scopes, as I do a lot more precision target shooting

[MacTech]

Went out to the range for a quick test of some new handloads, and to test a theory of mine...

New recipies were;

9.5 grains of Unique under a Better Bullets 200Gr LSWC and using a CCI Benchrest Large Rifle Primer
7.8 grains if Unique under a Speer Deepcurl 250GR JHP and using a CCI Benchrest LRP

Previous powder was W231, have not shot Trailboss in the BCC yet, but it's my favorite for my Ruger NM Blackhawk

My theory was that since the BCC uses the SB2 reciever, it therefore has a stronger firing pin strike than a handgun, I noticed that all my Large Pistol Primers have deeper than normal firing pin impressions when fired in the BCC, logically, since I'm using the .45 Colt cartridge in a *rifle*, I should be using large rifle primers...

I fired 10 rounds, 5 of each, each one had a nice, solid firing pin impression and fired on the first pull of the trigger, 100% success rate, of the two recipies shot, both had a slightly stouter recoil than W231, but still nothing bad at all, on a scale of 1-10, 1 being a .22LR bolt action rifle, and 10 being a 3" Magnum 12 gauge round shot from a Topper, I'd place recoil at somewhere around 2.5-ish, W231 recipies would have rated around 2

This bottle of Unique was the "cleaner burning" formulation, and, indeed, it was clean burning, even with my LSWC cartridges with the "blue crayon"-like lube groove, there was barely any unburnt powder left behind, and there was no leading either, in fact, Unique seemed to burn cleaner than W231 and Trail Boss, fired cartridges had almost no soot on the outside, and the interior of the cartridge shows all powder burned, no residue or leave-behinds, in a rifle, I can plainly say that Unique is just as clean as any of the other powders I've used, when I shot the JHP rounds, the bore was essentially spotless, and there was even less sooting on the brass

the reformulated Unique, when used in a rifle, is definitely clean burning

Of the two rounds, the BCC shot slightly tighter groups with the 200 Gr LSWC bullets, the 250's opened up a bit, groups were about 1" at 45 yards with the LSWC, 1.5 with the JHP, they could have been tighter if I had thought to have brought my glasses, I left them at home (grr...stupid astigmatism...), and it was also getting late in the day, overcast and dusk, so top off my lack of glasses with failing light, I don't think I did too badly, especially considering the gun is basically new, new to me, and I've been playing around with reloading formulas, the 1" groups are more of a failure to perform on *my* end

All fired cartridges dropped in and fell out of my NM Blackhawk cylinder with no resistance whatsoever

One final question...

If I was to load up some .45 Colt cartridges with Black Powder, how much cleaning would I have to do to the reciever after firing. lets say, 20-25 of them? I know BP is more corrosive and cleaning after shooting is very important, but I would imagine that since the BP is being contained within the brass cartridge, there should be almost no BP residue making it's way into the reciever, and cleaning would be limited to just the barrel, am I correct in thinking this?

[cwlongshot]

Just FYI,

9 or so grains of Unique was THE ONLY LOAD in the manuals for the 45 colt for many many years... Its still a good one today!!!

CW

[Dinny]

I have a few recommendations based on observations I have made from your writings/reports.

The bore cleanliness is less of an issue than you may think, Handis shoot better with dirty barrels.

If you're not satisfied with the factory sites, but still want to keep sites on it, try the NDS 38 sites that are sold in the classifieds.

I hope this helps...

Thanks, Dinny

[cwlongshot]

I have a few recommendations based on observations I have made from your writings/reports.

The bore cleanliness is CAN BE less of an issue than you may think, SOME Handis barrels shoot better with dirty bores.

Thanks, Dinny

I modified Dinny's quote. As I always say every barrel is different. It's has its own "personality" some like it dirty others clean. You need to try yours and see what yours likes.

Its safe to say the match shooters. Bench rest competition shooters have it down when it comes to what it takes to make a gun shoot. Would you agree?? You should... They CLEAN THEIR BORES, fire a fouling shot or three and shoot for group.

So, the one commonality MOST ALL barrels have in common is fouling shots, make for more consistent groups. I guess you could say dirty is relative. But when I read dirty, I see a barrel that is shot and shot for many range sessions and never cleaned.

CW

[MacTech]

I've been working up some loads for my H&R Buffalo Classic Carbine .45 Colt single shot rifle, the rifle is (supposedly) capable of handling the Ruger/TC only "Nuclear" loads, I don't plan to go to that extreme, but I do want a tad more "zing" than the standard .45 Colt loads....

I had previously shot some of the "Max" loads on the Alliant website, 9.5 grains of Unique under a 200Gn LSWC, the gun shot well with those loads, but a hair low at 50 yards, even with the sight elevator all the way to the bottom

I decided to take a little risk, and bump up the charge to an even 10 grains, that's .5 grains over the Alliant published maximum....

According to Handloads dot com, I can load a "+P" pressure level load using 13 grains of Unique, yeilding a pressure of 29,000 CUP and a velocity of 1,349 FPS

It generally looks like every full grain of Unique yields about 100 FPS more or less, so these loads should be hovering around 1,000 FPS-ish, not sure on the pressure though

How sensitive to overcharging is Unique, I've read somewhere that heavy loads of Unique can get somewhat "spiky" and unpredictable

I don't want a load that's going to beat the gun apart, blow up on me, or accelerate the wear and tear on the gun, but I do want a little more punch than the conservative "factory" loads are giving me

So, are these loads within the safe range for Ruger Only type loads, or am I better off dumping the charges and dropping back to the "max" load of 9.5Gr as specified on the Alliant website?

[cwlongshot]

Both Unique and 4227 were the first powders used the +P the Long colt loadings. IMHO, 4227 is a better choice if you want higher velocities. Even better still Jacketed bullets and AA#9, the twins H110/Win296, Lil'Gun and 2400 powders. If your gonna stick with Lead, then you have a very good powder for this purpose. Maybe try Trail Boss as its formulated specifically for lead bullet loadings. Truth be told, there is little this caliber cannot do with a good lead bullet @ 1100 fps.

There is much to read on this grand old cartridge. Unique is great for what it does, 10Gr's or less with a 255 lead bullet. If you want more, get a better/ more efficient powder.

I found that with hotter loads I would get much unburned powder with 2400. So I use 296/H110 for my heavy loads. I do not post my loads as I worked them up and know they are safe in my guns. You need to do the same for yours. BUT I will tell you I get  a 300gr jacketed bullet to almost 1300 from my 7.5" Black Hawks and almost 1400 from a 10" Contender and just over 1600 form a 16" Marlin. 1700+ from my handi and 20" marlin barrels using the same load. My Handi has since been re chambered to the 454, and is currently operating at much above 45Colt level +p loads.  

CW

[MacTech]

Just back from the range, the 10 Gn Unique loads were anticlimactic, just a tad heavier recoil (about .223/5.56 level) than the 9.5's, but no more accurate, in fact, I had better results with the 9.5'ers

the 10 Gn recipie rates a solid "Meh.", nothing special or noteworthy

<edit>
Heh, this was amusing, I just went downstairs to get dinner (MMM....leftover turkeyday fixins....) and when I came back up, I found my domestic shorthair cat, Blue, sitting on my BCC rifle, looking very pleased with himself...

"I can haz Rifle?"
"heeere coydog, coydog, coydog!, I haz a treet for u..."
"I can haz oppozable thumz, pleez?"

Yes, the Harrington and Richardson Buffalo Classic Carbine in .45 Colt, Kitteh approved

[tacklebury]

Congrats.  I'm getting stellar accuracy from my .45 Colt for deer season and I'm loading my own with 300 gr. XTP Magnums over 21 gr. Reloader7 for my carbine only.  My 5.5" NMB is shooting the same slug over 11 gr. Unique with no pressure issues and great accuracy also.  I'm hitting the 10x10 gong at 70 yards with the blackhawk and at 120 yards with the carbine.  The Reloader7 kicks a lot less sharply and gives me near 2k velocities out of the 20" barrel.  I typically color the tips of these orange with a sharpie and the primer too, so I don't do a swap into the pistola by accident.  I also store them in an orange container separate from the pistol rounds. 

[Hunter6657]

I'm guessing the 300gr XTP Mag bullets are meant for 454 casull application and won't blow up or fragment at that velocity on deer. I'll have to try that load after working up to it and also try R7 with the 250gr XTP Mag bullets.
I use 26gr of H110 with the 250gr bullets in my Ruger Blackhawk and my BC Carbine which is not a max load in Hodgon's Manual. Definitely makes it a 45 Magnum.

[dpe.ahoy]

I think you mean 240gr Mag bullet, the 250gr is for a lower velocity.  You might be running it to close to the upper end of not working right if to close to the muzzle for the 250.  The 240 and 300 Mag's are made for 454 Casull speeds.  DP

[tacklebury]

Yah, you have to watch the std. 250 gr. XTP's.  I loaded a bunch with 23gr. H110 in my Blackhawk this summer and in one lot, they were actually disintegrating at about the 75 yard mark and peppering everything below the target with shrapnel, while the main core of the bullet dumped velocity and nosedived.  I brought them down some and they were ok, but I resolved to go back to the XTP magnums for my shooting speeds.  The first box of 250's held up ok with those loads, but some seem really explosive.  With the 300 gr. Magnums (yes almost double the price), I get super solid transfer of energy on the cast iron gongs we shoot at and with the carbine loads at 100 yards, I nearly deflect the gong about 8".  My .45-70 BC with my fairly mild 46.7 gr. RL7 load and a 350 gr. Interlock Flat point will take the chain off the hook sometimes.  That's a real hoot.  The 11 gr. Unique loads with the 250's shoot a little more arched to 100, but work pretty good also and is what I shot to use up the 250's I'd purchased.  I've pretty much sworn off H110 for the carbine though, due the the terrific RL7 performance.  If you are going to use lead bullets with the RL7 loads though, I think a gas check will be required to keep from leading up the barrel.

[dangerranger]

This is what I did with my sight to help with old eye syndrome.


I made a new insert for the stock rear sight. so far its worked out well. I made it from a hack saw blade. the large hole is the mounting hole. I found it too big so I drilled the smaller 1/16".

[44 Man]

I put the Marbles 'bullseye' rear sight on mine.  And she loves my cast 270 gr SWC over 20 gr of H4227.  Enjoy that gun!  44 Man

[Hunter6657]

I haven't had any problem with the 250gr XTP's and they shoot great in my Ruger and the BC Carbine. I used that bullet on a 150lb hog at 35 yards in the Ruger and it blasted through both shoulders and out the other side. At that point I was thinking--why do I have my Ruger 454 Redhawk unless I am going to shoot hogs 3 at a time. I was using a 25gr charge of H110 in the Ruger which is below starting loads in the Hornady manual.

[gcrank1]

Way to think outside the box, DR, Well done!

[MacTech]

I'm getting to know my BCC better and better, and the more I shoot it, the more I love it, this is the first centerfire of *ANY* kind that I'm considering purchasing a second one of, just to have for backup purposes, it's that good and that much fun!

What I learned today;
The rifle shoots high when the end of the foreend is rested on the target rest, it shoots pretty much to POA when it's rested near the hinge pivot

When rested near the hinge pivot, it puts 250GN Speer DeepCurl hollowpoints almost on top of each other if I do my part

When shot from a rest, it tends to print about 2" right, when free held, pretty much dead on

I found my hunting loads as well, 8 grains of Unique under a Speer DeepCurl 250 grainer, almost no recoil to speak of, and *nearly perfect* mushrooming of the bullet, shot into a heavy, wet, cold (41F) sand/gravel mix, it penetrated to around 3" and took on a nearly perfect mushroom shape, with the loss of only one petal

The BCC is a truly great rifle, my absolute favorite

I just got home, and as I examine the fired bullet more closely, it definitely looks like it lost one petal, there are no signs of jacket seperation, and the retained weight is 230 grains out of the original 250 grain weight, it lost 20 grains somewhere, the missing petal could be a large part of that, the top of the mushroom is more or less oval-shaped, at the narrowest point, it has expanded to .695, widest point of expansion is .829, height is .455 at the highest point