Author Topic: Veteran Wildlife Officer Kills 76 Year Old Turkey Hunter on His Own Land  (Read 8964 times)

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Offline Bush Master

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Anybody defending this goon should check their American citizenship at the door. You DO NOT SHOOT OLD MEN! From what we know here, this cop was in the complete wrong, the elderly gentleman was not shooting at him, so therefore, self defense does not apply. Sounds to me like this cop was on a power trip and didn't like the old man putting him in his place. That place is public SERVANT, not lord and master of all he surveys.

As for you, Born Southern, just doing my job didn't work too well for the Nazis at Nuremberg now did it? It never ceases to amaze me how many so-called "Americans" swallow up this collectivist garbage.

Offline lrs

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I know there are no eyewitnesses and there is no videotape.  But seems like there should be physical evidence at the scene that can be used by investigators to determine precisely what occurred.
If the leo officer's story is legit, then the evidence at the scene should back his story up.
" we are screwed "

Offline Bush Master

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As usual, there are those who jump to defend this cop. They believe his word is the gospel because some yahoo pinned a nice, shiny tin badge on his pretty uniform blouse. I will always pick the citizen over the government agent, unless there is absolute concrete evidence otherwise. In this case, there is only the word of the officer, which is always suspect in this day and age. At least we can say that the government indoctrination centers are doing their jobs quite well.

How anyone can claim they are a better shot with a handgun than a shotgun is just beyond the pale. You have to be an idiot to think you can shoot a handgun with a single projectile better than a shotgun with dozens of them. And Beerbelly is right, try pulling a handgun and shooting someone who is holding a shotgun on you and you WILL die every time.

Offline Cement Man

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As far as I can tell, the matter is not settled.  The Wildlife Commission appparently made  a statement a few days ago that the GW acted in self-defense.  I haven't seen any conclusions from the State Bureau of Investigation or recommendations by the States Attorney though.  It appears that the investigation is still ongoing.

I sure have a lot of sympathy for Mr. Coffey and his family.  It's just a sad, terrible tragedy, and his younger sister had died just a few days before.  But the results are not in yet.  As much as emotions want to condemn the GW for this act and say he is the only witness so he can lie and get away with it, the evidence needs to be evaluated and conclusions made public.  There were several other LEOs and investigators on scene in a short time.  Hopefully the evidence is strong enough and the investigators were able to have done their job well enough to determine the real truth - whatever it is.
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Offline Bornsouthern34

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I have not defended anyone. Only the facts that have been presented so far. Every person who jumps to an assumption is a fool. And that is from the "Word" itself. If the LEO was wrong, then arrest him, try him, and then hang him. But what if the overwhelming evidence is in his favor? I believe there are several "fools" on this blog who will never change their opinion no matter how wrong they are. It is a pride thing, or lack of intelligence. Whichever, it does not matter, the end result is the same. BIAS and conspiracy theories.
"Common Sense IS NOT An Inherited Trait"

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Offline Bornsouthern34

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Bush Master

"Anybody defending this goon should check their American citizenship at the door. You DO NOT SHOOT OLD MEN! From what we know here, this cop was in the complete wrong, the elderly gentleman was not shooting at him, so therefore, self defense does not apply. Sounds to me like this cop was on a power trip and didn't like the old man putting him in his place. That place is public SERVANT, not lord and master of all he surveys."

First- The only unpatriotic person is one who does not seek truth and justice for all people.

Second- I don't care how old a person is, if they threaten me or my family, I WILL shoot them.

Third- Being shot at is not the only threat that warrents shooting back. Try watching CSI or Law and Order, you might learn something.

Fourth- Public service means you serve the greater majority, not one person.

Fifth- I despise poachers, regardless if you are on your own land or not. A poacher is a poacher. There is no difference.
"Common Sense IS NOT An Inherited Trait"

JT

Offline beerbelly

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"CSI or Law and Order"
Are TV shows you idiot! They have nothing to do with the real world! I wonder what makes me think you are a LEO off one kind or another. CSI or Law and Order you are just stupid!
                                      Beerbelly

Offline dukkillr

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Why has this thread not been locked?

Offline LONGTOM

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I have not posted a comment on this one as the facts may never be known.



Quote
I despise poachers, regardless if you are on your own land or not. A poacher is a poacher. There is no difference

I will state this one thing about the quote above.

While I would agree with you most of the time about poachers, I can say that if a person is really down on his luck and he has a family to feed then I don't have a problem with it!
Man made the law that put restrictions on game animals.
God put them here as a source of food and my family is not going hungry!


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Offline teamnelson

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Its interesting to read through this entire thread from page 1. There are a lot of competing philosophies at play, and yes of course, bias.

My own bias is that law and its enforcers serve the citizenry, not the other way around. I also believe that those who CHOOSE to serve in risky jobs, like a GW, do so knowingly placing their OWN life secondary to the lives of others. I differ from others here, a threat on my life is not grounds for an armed response; but a threat to someone else, particular the innocent and/or defenseless, is another issue entirely. That's why its called a responsibility - not a power. I also do not place wildlife management as a higher priority than human suffering and starvation - I recognize that the deceased was most likely not subsistence hunting when he was killed. So through the lens of my bias, it is plausible for me to imagine that a GW acted inappropriately. I cannot imagine any public servant involved in the death of a civilian that would be cleared simply on the grounds of his/her own statement. I have been eyewitness to several shootings ending in the death of civilians, and all of them were cleared eventually because of good investigation and the testimony of other persons on the scene. The crime here may not have happened yet if an investigation is not conducted.

The issue for me, mainly because I was ignorant of the sweeping powers of the mighty Game & Fish enforcement until recently, is the lack of accountability in place to protect the GWs. Did he submit a transcript of the tip from his informant to a judge to get a warrant to be on that property? Did he somehow "sense" that a crime was in progress (noisy or smelly bait??) which would give him "probable cause"? These are reasonable expectations under the law ... or so I thought. Perhaps the good of this event is that folks like us will get involved in the laws in our areas, and work to ensure that the accountability process is consistent for all badged officers. He is wide open to a civil suit now, which in some ways might be more costly than jail time for a manslaughter.
held fast

Offline Bornsouthern34

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Re: Veteran Wildlife Officer Kills 76 Year Old Turkey Hunter on His Own Land
« Reply #100 on: April 23, 2009, 01:45:27 AM »
"While I would agree with you most of the time about poachers, I can say that if a person is really down on his luck and he has a family to feed then I don't have a problem with it!
Man made the law that put restrictions on game animals.
God put them here as a source of food and my family is not going hungry!"


If he was hungry, why didn't he spend his money on food instead of bait? Corn is $8.00 bag now. Also, God is very clear on submission to our governments laws as long as they do not contradict His. Lastly, I have hunted for more than 30 years, never needed bait. If he needed bait to kill an animal then perhaps his judgement was as poor as his hunting skills.
"Common Sense IS NOT An Inherited Trait"

JT

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Veteran Wildlife Officer Kills 76 Year Old Turkey Hunter on His Own Land
« Reply #101 on: April 23, 2009, 04:35:11 AM »
when 2 armed men face each other and both believe they are just ownership of the land is of little importance at that moment . It maybe in court but at the moment it has become "kill or be killed " simple .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline flintlock

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Re: Veteran Wildlife Officer Kills 76 Year Old Turkey Hunter on His Own Land
« Reply #102 on: April 23, 2009, 05:27:05 AM »
Bornsouthern...We don't know that the old gentleman put bait out...I've heard that he had a disagreement with his neighbor...Someone tipped off the Game Warden, they had never had a Game Warden on the property...To add to the confusion the Game Warder was in camo, not his uniform...We don't even know if the old gentleman knew it was a Game Warden as he was hard of hearing...

It's possible that the neighbor put the bait out to set the old gentleman up, then called it in...

Offline Oldshooter

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Re: Veteran Wildlife Officer Kills 76 Year Old Turkey Hunter on His Own Land
« Reply #103 on: April 23, 2009, 05:30:14 AM »
.........................which brings me back to we dont know enough yet to say diddly ...........yet
“Owning a handgun doesn’t make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”

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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Veteran Wildlife Officer Kills 76 Year Old Turkey Hunter on His Own Land
« Reply #104 on: April 23, 2009, 05:35:38 AM »
And there is a good chance we never will !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Bornsouthern34

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Re: Veteran Wildlife Officer Kills 76 Year Old Turkey Hunter on His Own Land
« Reply #105 on: April 23, 2009, 10:54:27 AM »
Sounds good to me. See yall later.
"Common Sense IS NOT An Inherited Trait"

JT

Offline petemi

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Re: Veteran Wildlife Officer Kills 76 Year Old Turkey Hunter on His Own Land
« Reply #106 on: April 23, 2009, 11:16:43 AM »
I've been a cooperator with Michigan DNR for almost 20 years.  They have my permission to be on my land any at any time.  We don't violate the law in any way, and they help keep poachers and trespassers off my property.  They are the law...working for you.  Keep your nose clean and they won't bother you.

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Offline nomosendero

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Re: Veteran Wildlife Officer Kills 76 Year Old Turkey Hunter on His Own Land
« Reply #107 on: April 23, 2009, 04:20:49 PM »
Why has this thread not been locked?

Or at least everyone should acknowledge the fact that we don't know enough at this point. I hope that justice & truth prevail here though a VERY thorough investigation. Patience, Patience
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline williamlayton

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Re: Veteran Wildlife Officer Kills 76 Year Old Turkey Hunter on His Own Land
« Reply #108 on: April 23, 2009, 08:21:03 PM »
I have not read that the GW was dressed in camo---I am not doubting it, I just have not read that before.
The state investigators produced this evidence--and any officer who does not fully identify hisownself is a fool and shot be shot.
The officer saw the stand from the road---stand was illegal.
"         "       "    "    Bait     "     "     "   
The officer entered tha land and identified himself.
From where the old man was shot it was clear that the officer was retreating.

NOW, I am an old man and I know old men, we can be crotchity and mean.
Old men are just as suceptable to killing as young punks.
The EVIDENCE defends the GW.
Is the evidence tainted? Show me the money!!!
You gotta deal with what you got.
The evidence presented is what we got..

NOW, it makes no sense that the GW went onto this land with a premeditated intention of murder.
Get serious.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Dee

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Re: Veteran Wildlife Officer Kills 76 Year Old Turkey Hunter on His Own Land
« Reply #109 on: April 24, 2009, 01:10:32 AM »
I don't know about all states, but in  most the GW has the power to search
your house, freezer,under your bed or any where else he wants. Seems that some
here are confusing the GW with Police or county sherrif which do need a warrant
as far as i know in OK. and TX they don't even need probable cause.
I have had to pay fines for game laws that i ignorantly broke, my fault i paid.
I have never had an Officer enforce a law that wasn't broken, yea some seem to
enjoy it more than others, but i have found that if i don't break the laws i
can stand and smile while he searches. Some folks get the idea that the game on their land belongs to them, and they can use it any way they want. The game does
not belong to the land owner, he has to obey the law while on his own land.

Basically everything you said here rex6666 is INCORRECT. As I have said, and as Arier Blut said. Game Wardens are Law Enforcement officers. State laws CANNOT, supersede FEDERAL LAW. Federal search and seizure laws are for EVERYONE, and ALL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES. They MUST meet the criteria both Arier Blut and I stated. I worked under these rules for 20 years. They are not state wide, they are NATION WIDE in regards to Search and Seizure laws.

AND! In most states there are instances where the land owner may trump state game laws in instances such as over-stocked fishing water, to thinning predators that are protected when they are killing stock, of deer when they are damaging crops.



It is amazing Dee how much smarter you are than everyone else.
don't know how you managed to get into the financal problems you want
rant about, predaters are not game, if you have a problem with deer harming crops you have to show cause and get permission from the state.
and you still don't own the game just because its on your property

Show me where "I" was wrong on any of my statements in this post. Smarter? Never said that, HOWEVER, better informed than YOU, especially concerning "search and seizure" rights of individuals. You painted with a very broad brush, and made some UNTRUE statements.
By the way, I have not "ranted" about financial problems, merely that  the housing market dumped on me, and I did not ask, expect, nor get a bail out. I handled it myself, and it got handled.  ;) I "ranted" on tax payer dollars going to "unworthy" enterprise. If you wish to quote me, try doing so correctly, AND in context, AND topic. It will just make you feel, and look better. ;)



Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. Weak men create hard times.

Offline rex6666

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Re: Veteran Wildlife Officer Kills 76 Year Old Turkey Hunter on His Own Land
« Reply #110 on: April 24, 2009, 05:31:56 AM »
I don't know about all states, but in  most the GW has the power to search
your house, freezer,under your bed or any where else he wants. Seems that some
here are confusing the GW with Police or county sherrif which do need a warrant
as far as i know in OK. and TX they don't even need probable cause.
I have had to pay fines for game laws that i ignorantly broke, my fault i paid.
I have never had an Officer enforce a law that wasn't broken, yea some seem to
enjoy it more than others, but i have found that if i don't break the laws i
can stand and smile while he searches. Some folks get the idea that the game on their land belongs to them, and they can use it any way they want. The game does
not belong to the land owner, he has to obey the law while on his own land.

Basically everything you said here rex6666 is INCORRECT. As I have said, and as Arier Blut said. Game Wardens are Law Enforcement officers. State laws CANNOT, supersede FEDERAL LAW. Federal search and seizure laws are for EVERYONE, and ALL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES. They MUST meet the criteria both Arier Blut and I stated. I worked under these rules for 20 years. They are not state wide, they are NATION WIDE in regards to Search and Seizure laws.

AND! In most states there are instances where the land owner may trump state game laws in instances such as over-stocked fishing water, to thinning predators that are protected when they are killing stock, of deer when they are damaging crops.



It is amazing Dee how much smarter you are than everyone else.
don't know how you managed to get into the financal problems you want
rant about, predaters are not game, if you have a problem with deer harming crops you have to show cause and get permission from the state.
and you still don't own the game just because its on your property

Show me where "I" was wrong on any of my statements in this post. Smarter? Never said that, HOWEVER, better informed than YOU, especially concerning "search and seizure" rights of individuals. You painted with a very broad brush, and made some UNTRUE statements.
By the way, I have not "ranted" about financial problems, merely that  the housing market dumped on me, and I did not ask, expect, nor get a bail out. I handled it myself, and it got handled.  ;) I "ranted" on tax payer dollars going to "unworthy" enterprise. If you wish to quote me, try doing so correctly, AND in context, AND topic. It will just make you feel, and look better. ;)





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Offline PartsMan

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Re: Veteran Wildlife Officer Kills 76 Year Old Turkey Hunter on His Own Land
« Reply #111 on: April 24, 2009, 06:43:33 AM »
I have talked to a few Game Wardens around here. (Never got in any trouble)
It does seem a little threatening when they walk up on you.

How would you guys act if your job was to confront one or more of us gun toting rednecks in the woods.

Offline Land_Owner

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No disrespect intended to any LEO...
« Reply #112 on: April 24, 2009, 07:02:22 AM »
A DEA officer stops at a ranch in Montana , and talks with an old rancher. He tells the rancher, 'I need to inspect your ranch for illegally grown drugs.' The old rancher says, 'Okay, but do not go in that field over there' as he points out the location.

The DEA officer verbally explodes saying, 'Mister, I have the authority of the Federal Government with me.' Reaching into his rear pants pocket, he removes his badge and proudly displays it to the farmer. 'See this badge? This badge means I am allowed to go wherever I wish...on any land. No questions asked or answers given. Have I made myself clear? Do you understand?'

The old rancher nods politely, apologizes, and goes about his chores. A short time later, the old rancher hears loud screams and sees the DEA officer running for his life chased close behind by the rancher's prize bull. With every step the bull is gaining ground on the officer, and it seems likely that he'll get "horned" before he reaches safety. The officer is clearly terrified. The old rancher throws down his tools, runs to the fence and yells at the top of his lungs.....

'Your badge...Show him your badge!'

Offline Skunk

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Re: Veteran Wildlife Officer Kills 76 Year Old Turkey Hunter on His Own Land
« Reply #113 on: April 24, 2009, 07:09:30 AM »
Well that certainly lightens things up a bit, Land Owner. :D
Mike

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Offline Oldshooter

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Re: Veteran Wildlife Officer Kills 76 Year Old Turkey Hunter on His Own Land
« Reply #114 on: April 24, 2009, 07:16:09 AM »
 ;D  gotta love it
“Owning a handgun doesn’t make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”

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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Veteran Wildlife Officer Kills 76 Year Old Turkey Hunter on His Own Land
« Reply #115 on: April 24, 2009, 07:18:46 AM »
Hope it was a registered bull !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline slim rem 7

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Re: Veteran Wildlife Officer Kills 76 Year Old Turkey Hunter on His Own Land
« Reply #116 on: April 24, 2009, 08:47:43 AM »
now thats funny.. and simple enough that i can remember it. thanks..slim

Offline flintlock

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Re: Veteran Wildlife Officer Kills 76 Year Old Turkey Hunter on His Own Land
« Reply #117 on: April 24, 2009, 09:12:45 AM »
willialayton...It is not illegal to hunt turkeys from a stand in NC...The Game Warden was dressed in camo...I'm a local and this has been on the news...

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Veteran Wildlife Officer Kills 76 Year Old Turkey Hunter on His Own Land
« Reply #118 on: April 24, 2009, 09:36:24 AM »
the old guy could have been on meds and they got messed up or any number of things , the leo could have been right or wrong only he knows .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Dee

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Re: Veteran Wildlife Officer Kills 76 Year Old Turkey Hunter on His Own Land
« Reply #119 on: April 24, 2009, 12:43:58 PM »
I don't know about all states, but in  most the GW has the power to search
your house, freezer,under your bed or any where else he wants. Seems that some
here are confusing the GW with Police or county sherrif which do need a warrant
as far as i know in OK. and TX they don't even need probable cause.
I have had to pay fines for game laws that i ignorantly broke, my fault i paid.
I have never had an Officer enforce a law that wasn't broken, yea some seem to
enjoy it more than others, but i have found that if i don't break the laws i
can stand and smile while he searches. Some folks get the idea that the game on their land belongs to them, and they can use it any way they want. The game does
not belong to the land owner, he has to obey the law while on his own land.

Basically everything you said here rex6666 is INCORRECT. As I have said, and as Arier Blut said. Game Wardens are Law Enforcement officers. State laws CANNOT, supersede FEDERAL LAW. Federal search and seizure laws are for EVERYONE, and ALL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES. They MUST meet the criteria both Arier Blut and I stated. I worked under these rules for 20 years. They are not state wide, they are NATION WIDE in regards to Search and Seizure laws.

AND! In most states there are instances where the land owner may trump state game laws in instances such as over-stocked fishing water, to thinning predators that are protected when they are killing stock, of deer when they are damaging crops.



It is amazing Dee how much smarter you are than everyone else.
don't know how you managed to get into the financal problems you want
rant about, predaters are not game, if you have a problem with deer harming crops you have to show cause and get permission from the state.
and you still don't own the game just because its on your property

Show me where "I" was wrong on any of my statements in this post. Smarter? Never said that, HOWEVER, better informed than YOU, especially concerning "search and seizure" rights of individuals. You painted with a very broad brush, and made some UNTRUE statements.
By the way, I have not "ranted" about financial problems, merely that  the housing market dumped on me, and I did not ask, expect, nor get a bail out. I handled it myself, and it got handled.  ;) I "ranted" on tax payer dollars going to "unworthy" enterprise. If you wish to quote me, try doing so correctly, AND in context, AND topic. It will just make you feel, and look better. ;)





BOY THAT TOOK A WHILE
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D :o :o :o ::) ::) ::)

I have a job, that doesn't often allow me to sit by the computer. I have been out of town. The response took two minutes, but several days to get to it. ;)
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