Veteran Wildlife Officer Kills 76 Year Old Turkey Hunter on His Own Land

[williamlayton]

If anyone has kept up with the facts of this case this is what we know as of Friday.
The investigation is ongoing.
No information has been released.
No charges have been filed.
No dismissles have been issued.
The officer fired his service weapon, a pistol.
The officer was there too investigate illegal baiting.
He had legal right too be on the land without warrant, that was his job.

DEE is correct about search and seizure by game wardens but the courts, in this state, have used a broad brush when judging if a Warden can enter a house in the pursuit of investigation of gaming laws.
Like all courts, some are more lenient than others.
I know for a fact that Wardens in E Texas have been given wide leaveway in this area. I do know that they have entered homes without warrants and that the entry was held to be justifiable.
Recently, in two cases in Harris county, Wardens entered homes in search of illegaly taken game (deer) without warrants and without misconduct being charged. They did it on basis of reports from unidentified sorces.
They found what it was that was reported. Both times it was the head of a deer that was being offered for sale because of value of the rack.
Now, this is not too say that it is the same everywhere.
I have had good and poor experiences with Wardens. Some I knew but treated that relationship with indifference because of the work---that pleased me.
Some with a bullying attitude.
In our state, their job is very dangerous. They are without backup and, most of the time, confronting armed folks.
The one poor experience was with a youg officer.
I was wade fishing along the north shoreline of galveston Island for Red fish and trout. It was a spring tide and the Reds were in abundance. I had caught and released til my old arms could not take another tug.
The limit was three Reds with slot limits(long and short). The long was 30"'s. I had three that were spot on 30inches. That is measuring with my rod to marked points of length. I always fudged 1/4 of an inch to allow myownself some leaveway. It is hard to hold a fish and measure very accurately.
As I waded to shore, where I, and a number of others had parked, this warden dove up and slammed on his brakes sliding too a stop as though there he was taking fire from the brush.
He came out of the car, hand on hip, and sid I need your lic. SON. I was 20 years older than this punk kid. I gave him the paperwork and he started measuring the fish. i said I have a cooler with some soft drinks in the back of the pickup, do you mind if I get one, and he said  hedid not mind.
He measured those fish about three times each.
At this point i was tired and frustrated.
I said "SON", I don't think those fish are gonna grow any while you are here.
He looked at me like he wanted too do something, but could not.
Got in his vehicle and when he left he threw sand all over me and my fish.
I hope that made him feel better.
Blessings

[MGMorden]

I don't know about all states, but in  most the GW has the power to search
your house, freezer,under your bed or any where else he wants. Seems that some
here are confusing the GW with Police or county sherrif which do need a warrant
as far as i know in OK. and TX they don't even need probable cause.
I have had to pay fines for game laws that i ignorantly broke, my fault i paid.
I have never had an Officer enforce a law that wasn't broken, yea some seem to
enjoy it more than others, but i have found that if i don't break the laws i
can stand and smile while he searches. Some folks get the idea that the game on their land belongs to them, and they can use it any way they want. The game does
not belong to the land owner, he has to obey the law while on his own land.

Basically everything you said here rex6666 is INCORRECT. As I have said, and as Arier Blut said. Game Wardens are Law Enforcement officers. State laws CANNOT, supersede FEDERAL LAW. Federal search and seizure laws are for EVERYONE, and ALL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES. They MUST meet the criteria both Arier Blut and I stated. I worked under these rules for 20 years. They are not state wide, they are NATION WIDE in regards to Search and Seizure laws.

AND! In most states there are instances where the land owner may trump state game laws in instances such as over-stocked fishing water, to thinning predators that are protected when they are killing stock, of deer when they are damaging crops.

Due remember though Dee that they (any LEO) can always search the premises (or your car) with your permission.  Most of them have wisened up to the fact that if they say "Mind if I look around the house/car?" with enough authority, and in a tone that sounds like you can't refuse, then most people will just blindly say "Ok.".  People don't even realize that if that they have the option of refusing the search.

Personally, I've had my good and bad experiences with them.  I've never been written a ticket myself (I'm usually pretty good about following everything to the letter), but about a year ago me, my brother, and his wife were coming back home from a wildlife expo dinner.  We both live way back in the woods, and at 1:30am the road going home is always empty as far as the eye can see.  We passed a deer beside the road which looked like the biggest buck we'd ever seen.  No traffic, so my brother stopped and turned around to see if it was still there and get a better look at it.  We had no guns in the vehicle, no spotlights, nothing.  Just turned around to get a better look at it.  When we got there we noticed the deer wasn't moving - it was fake.  We went ahead and started to pull off and about 5 seconds later - blue lights.  You'd think the SWAT were deployed as there were 4 Game Wardens all over the truck.  Asking for ID's from everyone, and catching attitudes.  Ended up writing up my brother a $465 ticket for Shining/harassment of wildlife.  2 of those particular Wardens have always been problematic though.  I know that one recently had to head up to the state office for some stuff due to too many local complaints being filed.  Most of them are ok though, and will check check and wave you through. 

[Dee]

MGMorden, I believe the discussion was slanted toward what they could and could not do "without permission" to search.
I myself have used the line, mind if I look around, and you shouldn't mind if you have nothing to hide. 99% of the time it amazingly worked. People are far too trusting of many law enforcement officers, and they never realize that the officer is not making a safety check for YOUR benefit. He's trying to find a reason to fine, or arrest you.
As a 20 year veteran, and very pro-law enforcement, I have myself ALWAYS turned officers down several times when asked if they could search my truck. All were aggravated and tried to intimidate me, and play psychological games on me. Needless to say it did not work.
A Louisville Kentucky officer several years ago called a SGT. to the stop when I refused him permission to search, and they threatened to get a search warrant, for a normal traffic stop where there was no real offense. I simply replied ok, get one, and then advised them I wanted my copy of the warrant, and requested the search be filmed, and ANOTHER supervisor be called to supervise the search warrant authorized search of my vehicle. When asked why, I said, I want to read the warrant as you have to list SPECIFICALLY what you are looking for, and your "probable cause". Search warrants cannot be just large amounts of money, drugs, and or weapons. Example: What KIND OF DRUGS. AND! Probable CAUSE must be in writing as to WHY YOU WANT TO SEARCH.
The SGT. finally got around to asking how I knew so much about search warrants, and I replied I had been typing them up, and running them before he had a driver's license. He then asked me why I hadn't told him or the other officer I was retired police, to which I answered, why should it matter?
They didn't like it but, they let me go, as I would not budge.
People should be aware of their rights concerning search and seizure, and just because you have nothing to hide, doesn't mean you are obligated to let law officers invade your privacy. You aren't doing your self a favor by letting them, and you are making it harder on the next citizen to deal with them. When you give in you are not only empowering them to invade your privacy, but are empowering them emotionally, and your are voluntarily surrendering your rights as an American citizen, even if but, for a short time. You don't have to be a jerk about it, just say no thanks. It's your right. JMO and having been on both sides of the fence.

[j104wd]

Used to live in Wilkes county have met this officer a few times. I thought he had a real abrasive attitude when he checked my fishing liscense. Minton shouldnt even be working in Wilkes county he is from there and all other states you are not allowed to patrol in the county you grew up in just like state troppers.
I heard that his brake lines had been cut and there have been shots fired at his house both acts are way out of line but makes you think if it would have happened if everyone there didnt already know him. If it was a justified shooting he should be moved out east to a new county

[Land_Owner]

Basically, hunting is just NOT WORTH DYING OVER.

[Dee]

Ya know, arm chair quarterbacking is a safe bet and we're all guilty of it. I used to say in my younger days, when I rodeo ed for part of my living, that more good bull rides were made on the fence than in the arena, and it was the truth. Coulda shoulda woulda.
The one thing I have noticed in my almost 60 years of life, and 20 of it in L.E., is that when mad, people sometimes say things out of anger that are pretty outrageous, and sometimes scary.
I don't know how many times during arrests and standoffs I have been told I was going to be killed by the perp. He certainly put me on alert when he told me this, and he certainly escalated the situation because when this happened, out came the guns. One never knew when someone was bluffing, and when they were serious, and had the means to follow thru.
I think I have made it pretty plain how I felt about abusive officers, and overbearing officers, and especially the cowboy attitude of many game wardens. HOWEVER! None of us were there, none of us heard what was said by either party, none of us knows why the game warden was there, and none of us knew the attitude of the deceased. This whole thing will shake out I suspect, and some will have egg on the face depending on their stance of SPECULATION.
I will hope that the officer acted accordingly, that his actions were justified, and that he will receive his just rewards according to his actions, whether he was right or wrong. I wont' condemn him on such a serious matter until the evidence is in, and sorted out. It is certainly how I would want to be treated, and I have been there on more than one occasion.

[Bornsouthern34]

As I said earlier, "Speculation is a wonderful thing". This has been one of the most intersting topics I have been a part of since joining. This is kinda like the Rodney King beating. Way more to the story than anyone saw. 

[Fazak]

If you don't have the right to say who can and who can't come onto your property,...then it's not your property.

[williamlayton]

The game on that property is not the sole possession of the owner of the property.
Blessings

[beerbelly]

" I wont' condemn him on such a serious matter until the evidence is in"

The evidence is in. The old man he killed wont be giving his side of it now will he?
                               Beerbelly

[MGMorden]

" I wont' condemn him on such a serious matter until the evidence is in"

The evidence is in. The old man he killed wont be giving his side of it now will he?
                               Beerbelly

No, but consider this: is there any set of circumstances possible where he would have been justified?  If so, and that's the story he gives, and that's where all the evidence points, then why assume otherwise?  It does no good to go into the situation biased one way or another.

Put it this way, if a gang member and a cop get into a shootout and the gang member dies, do we then say "Well he's never going to get to give his side of the story."  No - we have to base the decision on the facts at hand.

[rex6666]

What really irks me are the changes every year to the game laws and limits. What was legal last year, might not be this year. Daily and posession limits keep changing. You can smile as they empty your freezer until they find out you have one too many limits of sunfish because they changed the limit over the winter. Who is smiling now Rex?

ever think about reading the new laws, how many years supply of sun fish
do you need to keep. that is probably why they keep changing the limits
some people need to hoard those poor little fish, if you catchem eatem

[rex6666]

I don't know about all states, but in  most the GW has the power to search
your house, freezer,under your bed or any where else he wants. Seems that some
here are confusing the GW with Police or county sherrif which do need a warrant
as far as i know in OK. and TX they don't even need probable cause.
I have had to pay fines for game laws that i ignorantly broke, my fault i paid.
I have never had an Officer enforce a law that wasn't broken, yea some seem to
enjoy it more than others, but i have found that if i don't break the laws i
can stand and smile while he searches. Some folks get the idea that the game on their land belongs to them, and they can use it any way they want. The game does
not belong to the land owner, he has to obey the law while on his own land.

Basically everything you said here rex6666 is INCORRECT. As I have said, and as Arier Blut said. Game Wardens are Law Enforcement officers. State laws CANNOT, supersede FEDERAL LAW. Federal search and seizure laws are for EVERYONE, and ALL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES. They MUST meet the criteria both Arier Blut and I stated. I worked under these rules for 20 years. They are not state wide, they are NATION WIDE in regards to Search and Seizure laws.

AND! In most states there are instances where the land owner may trump state game laws in instances such as over-stocked fishing water, to thinning predators that are protected when they are killing stock, of deer when they are damaging crops.

It is amazing Dee how much smarter you are than everyone else.
don't know how you managed to get into the financal problems you want
rant about, predaters are not game, if you have a problem with deer harming crops you have to show cause and get permission from the state.
and you still don't own the game just because its on your property

[SHOOTALL]

in Va. the laws are set every 2 years . this makes good sense to me as it allows for the game planners to react to changes in game populations .
BTW how long do ya keep sunfish ?
try catch and release for a time and limits might go up .

[Fazak]

The game on that property is not the sole possession of the owner of the property.
Blessings

Still,...if you don't have the right to say who does and who does not come onto your property,..it's not your property.

You can pretend that it is,...you can even pretend that you own the house that you live in.

But the state will come onto it whenever they want and if you don't pay the state what they demand in property taxes, they will put you out of your home, take posession of it, and sell it to the high bidder.

Americans own nothing.

It's all a carefully manicured illusion.

[teamnelson]

Life, liberty and property ... And the right to defend the same. Sound familiar to anyone?

To be dismayed at how few rights we truly have should not be construed as a personal attack on the character of a law enforcement official. To lament the shift from protect and serve to enforcement is our right as citizens. I am not happy that our system of law gives LEOs broad powers to search and sieze my property, on peril of my life. I've been told the reason they no longer protect and serve is pragmatic. Too much crime. Pragmatism has beaten natural law and were defending it here on this thread. Seems our forebears gave their lives for something we no longer value.

last I checked, citizens are innocent until proven guilty so my sympathies lie with the landowner until he is found guilty by due process posthumously.

[williamlayton]

In a statement issued by the State Bureau of Investigation said that no charges would be issued against the wildife officer.
Investigation shows that Minton was on patrol in the early morning of the beginning of Spring Turkey season, looking for illegal hunting.
He was patroling a road when he saw signs of hunting from a stand and baiting, both illegal in a spring season.
He intered the land and confronted Coffey asking him to come down from the stand. Coffey was reported to have said, "If i come down I am going too shoot You." When Coffey came down he started approaching the officer in a threatening manner. The officer retreated until he could do so no longer.
He discharged his weapon in fear of his life.
Blessings

[beerbelly]

And we know this why? Oh yes the leo that is alive told us so. I don't believe a word of it! The cowardly bastard probably shot first and asked questions later.
                      Beerbelly

[Bornsouthern34]

beerbelly,
  You sure are disgruntled. Have you ever been shot at? Has anyone ever stuck a gun in your face? Noone in there right mind ever wakes up thinking about killing anyone. Even in Iraq, I never wanted to kill anyone. To call someone who had to kill another person cowardly is pretty low. Killing someone is one of the hardest things to live with. Perhaps it is you, who is using this forum to vent your frustration rather than man up, is the cowardly one?

[Cement Man]

The game on that property is not the sole possession of the owner of the property.
Blessings

Still,...if you don't have the right to say who does and who does not come onto your property,..it's not your property.

You can pretend that it is,...you can even pretend that you own the house that you live in.

But the state will come onto it whenever they want and if you don't pay the state what they demand in property taxes, they will put you out of your home, take posession of it, and sell it to the high bidder.

Americans own nothing.

It's all a carefully manicured illusion.

That's OK by me.  I am only here for a short while anyway and I can't take it with me.  Even with all of its flaws and detractors, I like it here.  And I like the illusion that I live in.  I even signed up to defend this place.  I arrived butt naked with nothing and will probably go out with a suit coat and a tie on.  Far as I know there are no delinquent tax bills and evictions at the cemetery.  Will I own that property?

[williamlayton]

The magic of the mind is scary.
We need some evidence from you that it went down another way---I think doesn't cut it.
Blessings

[beerbelly]

Bornsourthern3  You  asked Have you ever been shot at? Has anyone ever stuck a gun in your face?  The answer to both is yes. I will tell you right now that when a guy has the drop on you with a shotgun, you do as you are told! You are not going to pull a pistol and shoot the guy! You would be dead before you could touch that pistol!
 Now If that game warden was backing away from a guy with a shotgun on him as he said, Tell me just how in the hell he shot this guy, with out getting shot? Do you think the guy that gets shot just falls down dead like they do in the movies? Well they don't. No way this went down like he is telling it.
 As to me being a  coward, you can see I liove in Jasper Alabama, You may feel free to come on up and find out!
                           Beerbelly

[Bornsouthern34]

I've seen seen someone die and I have seen people who have been threatened act with courgae in ways never imaginable. I find your bias toward the game warden crude and childish. Grow up. If someone threatens me, shotgun or not, I WILL defend myself by whatever means necessary. The law is the law, if you don't like it, move to Mexico.

BTW, I am a damn better shot with a pistol than a shotgun.

[mechanic]

This has taken a turn for the ugly, just showing the dislike of law officers of any stripe.  I will say that all in all I've met more good ones than bad.  I can't imagine a guy with 10 years on the job just up and shooting an old man.  Doesn't make sense unless he did feel threatened.  But we will never know, because we were not there, and we don't have video.  I feel sorry for both familys.

[billy_56081]

Beerbelly, it is obvious that you have absolutly no professoinal experiance or training in self defence and reacting to a threat. Action is ALWAYS faster than reaction. By the time tells the brain that is has seen an action and then the time it takes to react to the action and tell the finger to pull the trigger the first shot has already been fire by your opponent.

Now on this case we will have to get all the facts, we are all just supposin here.

[beerbelly]

Well I am 70 years old, if I haven't grown up by now I don't guess I will. If you mean law enforcement traning, no I have not. I did have a little training from the U S Marine Corps once up on a time. But if you think you can draw your pistol and shoot a man with a shotgun pointed at you, have at it. He will kill you every time.
                      Beerbelly
                         

[mirage1988]

Well I am 70 years old, if I haven't grown up by now I don't guess I will. If you mean law enforcement traning, no I have not. I did have a little training from the U S Marine Corps once up on a time. But if you think you can draw your pistol and shoot a man with a shotgun pointed at you, have at it. He will kill you every time.
                      Beerbelly
                         

Its one thing to shoot off your mouth and threaten to shoot someone, but its a whole lot different to pull the trigger on a LEO. There must have been a moment there when the old man realized he was past the point of no return and didn't shoot and the game cop did what he was trained to do.

[beerbelly]

Well you are welcome to your conclusions and I have mine. I guess we will never know will we.
                          Beerbelly

[williamlayton]

Assumeing is, well, you know--themagic of the mind.
I don't know and never stated that his weapon was unholstered or holstered.
What you are really saying is I don't like an old guy on his own land being shot by anyone and because he was on his own land the other guy should be arrested.
That is an opinion you may have---but, my Lord man, where is the proof.
You cannot do/make/create ANYTHING you want on YOUR own land because it is your land. That is an illogical thought.
If he had killed the officer on HIS land would you be saying that HIS land was sovereign soil and not subject too any law but the owner.
You are backing yourownself into a hole and it is a deep rut. Your arguement is illogical.
Blessings

[beerbelly]

                   I would not expect any other opinion from a retired leo. I saw where some one said that his house and car had been shot at previous to this killing. Make me wonder what his friends ans neighbors have against him.
                             Beerbelly