I banned one of you Handi-Holics from the site tonight

[Graybeard]

After much discussion and negoiation between us I have agreed to reinstate him with some promises in writing from him that I can live with.

[stimpylu32]

Bill

Does that make him like a 2 life cat that has used up one . and thank you , just hate to see a guy gone for a mis-step in judgment .

stimpy

[Fred M]

Bill.
A good way to settle. I thought the penalty was a bit harsh.  Good man.

One thing about this forum there is never a dull moment, this makes it interesting.

[Graybeard]

Bill

Does that make him like a 2 life cat that has used up one . and thank you , just hate to see a guy gone for a mis-step in judgment .

stimpy

Something very similar to that.


Fred violation of a GBO rule might or might not cause a person to be banned, it depends on what rule and how flagrant the violation. For instance if a person worms his way around the word censor and in any way shape form or fashion gets the fword on this site they are banned for life with no second chance regardless. Same for posting porn, there is no second chance.

But when ya openly admit yer gonna violate federal law well I gotta act. He still doesn't necessarily agree that what he did was such a violation but we've worked out an amicable compromise that takes me off the hook and lets him back in.


He's not the first and likely won't be the last that has said something in an e-mail that came to me when it was supposed to have been a response to a PM that got them kicked from the site. Ya really should pay attention and when an e-mail says DO NOT REPLY TO THIS E-MAIL ya really shouldn't and iffen ya do you should be careful what you say. 

[tallyho]

He's not the first and likely won't be the last that has said something in an e-mail that came to me when it was supposed to have been a response to a PM that got them kicked from the site. Ya really should pay attention and when an e-mail says DO NOT REPLY TO THIS E-MAIL ya really shouldn't and iffen ya do you should be careful what you say. 

Pay attention guys, it can't get much clearer than that!

[Cookiemann]

swampy has been around and done enough tradin' and stuff long enough to know better.  I will miss him, but you don't screw around with the BATF.   And if you're gonna you darn sure don't want to post it in PRINT. 

I have had the Tax man after me a few times through the years....it is very frustrating and sometimes you get so worked up...but what he did jeopardized this forum and he left Bill no choice.

swampman, don't do anything stupid...there's better options than grabbin' the "Bug Out" gear and headin' out the door. 

cookiemann

[pills]

Mr. Graybeard do you see anything in this that is incorrect or violates your TOS?

 I use this website as my guide on such matters.

http://gunbroker.com/Support/SupportFAQView.asp?FAQID=1118&NoCount=1

Federal Law requires that all modern firearms be shipped only to a holder of a valid Federal Firearms License (FFL). The recipient must be have an FFL; however the sender is not required to have one. Any person who is legally allowed to own a firearm is legally allowed to ship it to an FFL holder for any legal purpose (including sale or resale).

Here is exactly what the ATF 'Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide' (ATF P 5300.4) says:

(B9) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]

B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U. S. Postal Service? [Back]
A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. A nonlicensee may not transfer any firearm to a nonlicensed resident of another state. The Postal Service recommends that longguns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms.

Before you ship a gun, the buyer must fax or mail you a copy of the dealer's signed FFL license. You can only ship the gun to the address on the license. You must inform the carrier that the package contains a firearm. Of course, the firearm cannot be shipped loaded; ammunition may not be shipped in the same box. You should take the copy of the signed FFL with you when you take the item to be shipped in case the shipper wishes to see it.

[Cookiemann]

Everyone, please accept my apology.  I spoke without having all the info here and I am sorry. 

swampy has been around and done enough tradin' and stuff long enough to know better.  I will miss him, but you don't screw around with the BATF.   And if you're gonna you darn sure don't want to post it in PRINT. 

I have PM'd Mark, but my comments were made publicly and so the apology should be public, too.  I guess we are never too old to learn.  I'm sorry, swampman.

Rich...cookiemann

[Swampman]

Here is exactly what the email I sent said.

“I don't send them through an FFL.  I ship them USPS to your dealer.  This is legal."

Everything I was doing was based on the current Federal & Postal regulations as posted by pills above.  I didn't feel it would profitable for me, or fair to the buyer to have to exceed Federal requirements by shipping from an FFL dealer so I decided not to sell them through this forum.  This whole thing has given me great insight into this hobby and my fellow man,  I'm very inclined to quit the shooting sports completely, and may yet.  I don't do things that are illegal, immoral, or unethical.

[Cat Whisperer]

I'll restate the obvious,

If you state the rules before the game starts, WHATEVER the rules are, they're FAIR.

Self discipline is a survival tool.

(There are several places in thsi world that now have rules of behavior that they did not have prior to their experience with me.  Don't ask.)

[nomosendero]

The rules are there for our own safety. Don't need the guns to fall into the wrong hands.

 

Don't get me wrong, it is law, therefore we should obey it. But for our safety?  When I was a kid you could order a handgun or a rifle from a Sears Catalog. We had alot less crime than now & criminals probably would not place ordering a Handi from GB as the prefered way to aquire weapons. I guess being from the rural South gives me more of a self reliant attitude about things & I don't feel the Government
needs to regulate my every move, but to each his own. Sorry guys, I know this is not the subject & I strayed a little.

But again, it is law & it is stupid not to comply. 

[pills]

I have not seen where Swampman would have violated the law. At worst he violated the TOS of this site. That is why I asked Graybeard for clarification as I have read the TOS and have not found where Swampman even did that.

If someone can show where he did either I sure would appreciate it. I don't want any trouble with the government or graybeard.

+1 for cookieman. You just moved up a notch in my book.

[Swampman]

 

[Graybeard]

Let me put it to ALL of you this way.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE WAY I RUN THIS SITE THEN GET THE HELL OFF IT AND FIND ONE YOU DO LIKE. END OF DISCUSSION.

[pills]

Let me put it to ALL of you this way.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE WAY I RUN THIS SITE THEN GET THE HELL OFF IT AND FIND ONE YOU DO LIKE. END OF DISCUSSION.

I am assuming you read the post earlier that asked if anything mentioned there violated your TOS. I have read and re-read the TOS and  I am still coming up short on the violation. Your clarification on this matter would be appreciated by all.

Thanks in advance.

[joshco84]

all i know is what i heard from a wise old man one time.  If you find yourself in a hole and want to get out, put down the shovel and quit digging.

josh

not trying to press buttons, just stating my two cents worth

[Graybeard]

What the hell part of END OF DISCUSSION do you NOT understand. I'm pretty sure that 24 hours from now there are gonna be fewer Handi-Holics registered here than there are now. Do you need a clearer comment than that?

[BlkHawk73]

   I simply want to say that while I hate to see any member banned, it's GB's site and he must do what he can to protect the forums integrity.  Sometimes it's favorable, other times not.  We're here under his roof so we must respect his house rules.  Ive yet to see any real unfair steps he's taken.  maybe instead of ridicuing for one incident, we should take some time to applaud him for his positive efforts in having this site here for us to enjoy.