Author Topic: Brady's calling your bolt action gun a "Sniper Rifle" (Read 6433 times)

nomosendero · « **Reply #60 on:** February 23, 2007, 12:04:33 PM »

Do you see anything? I read your post again before you made your last one & deleted it.
And you know that!

Fact is your statement that the 50 BMG has no place in the hunting World is the EXACT
same principle as the JZ statement that the AR has no place in the hunting field. Do any goofy dance you like, and the conclusion is still inescapeable.

NONYA · « **Reply #61 on:** February 23, 2007, 12:16:17 PM »

Nomo I didnt know that,am i telepathic?I made my post after reading yours,how would i know you changed it?You went back and changed it because you relized how stupid it was to acuse me of breaking the law when you were wrong.You guys have spiralled downward to name calling and accusations that have no bearing on the original topic,pretty sad.You will just have to agree that we disagree and try to retain some amount of honor.We are NEVER going to agree and once it the hunting regs are changed it will be a mute point,it wont take anything away from anyone who is posting and will be forgoten in a short period of time.You can be as angry at me over my opinion as you want,whatever makes you happy,Im not angry at you over your support for it,that s achieves nothing.For those who didnt get a chance to see nomos rant before he deleted it he accused me of not turning in these guys to the fish cops for using fmj ammo and told me how ashamed of myslef i should be for being part of the problem.

"Nonya, did YOU see the ammo they used, do you know for sure that they used FMJ ammo.
If you KNOW that they used FMJ, why didn't you report it? It is your duty to do so. By your previous posts that describe what these guys do & how they hunt & you by your admission knew where they hunt, you had them dead to rights, IF they used this ammo.
You could have eliminated this situation on the spot & if we turn a blind eye to spot lighters, out of season hunters or other violaters, then we are part of the problem. I have to say shame on you for not doing so!!!" Nomo

nomosendero · « **Reply #62 on:** February 23, 2007, 12:28:25 PM »

Do you see anything, meaning I removed the incorrect post!

Yes, that did happen. And I called Montana G & F and they told me that FMJ is legal. I went back & reread the post & sure enough, you said it was, I thought you said otherwise. So, I deleted the post & you allready had your reply. I don't mind admitting a mistake & I made another one or 2 today while working, no doubt. I would have deleted with your post or without it.

But, you have made a mistake by giving anti's fodder, you know it & your pride won't allow yourself to admit it. BTW, I am not mad at you either, no more than JZ, at least. Would you like to look at JZ's comment & yours again?

Zachary · « **Reply #63 on:** February 23, 2007, 12:41:31 PM »

Guys, let me put on my moderator's hat. There's nothing too wrong with what's been said, but let's be careful because it could get out of hand.

Zachary

NONYA · « **Reply #64 on:** February 23, 2007, 01:11:28 PM »

I made a mistake?That is yet another opinion.I stand by my opinion and nobody can convince me im wrong.When the antis quote NONYA from GBO as saying the 50cal shouldnt be used for deer hunting in MT in a congressional hearing you let me know OK?my opinion isnt helping any anti group out there,my opinion is more popular than you may know,or want to admit.

nomosendero · « **Reply #65 on:** February 23, 2007, 01:19:33 PM »

Well, when I talked to the gentleman at MG&F, he did not think your view was popular at all, but that is just his opinion & your view is just your opinion. To him it appeared to be a non-issue, but I am sure that NONYA can change everything, even though you think your view on an internet forum has no value. I think that I will weigh his view a little more than yours. Funny, when I discussed the 50 cal. discussion, it reminded him of Jim Zumbo. Must have been an isolated incident, ah shucks

In fact, we had such a nice talk, I think I need to call more often, he had alot of good info.

NONYA · « **Reply #66 on:** February 23, 2007, 02:34:43 PM »

The guy awnsering the phone at the F&G office dont make the decisions,a group of F&G commisioners made up of ranchers and hunters appointed by our Dem Gov. makes them,Im pretty sure you dont know anything about them,they are civilians,most of them have ranching roots and I can gaurantee you that if this issue goes up in front of the current commision it will be a non issue.Im glad you made an effort to colect the opinion of the guy awnsering the phone and i doubt he is in any position to make public releases about his opions.Why dont you call up the commisioner that is proposing the issue and his cosponsor and see if they want to talk.This decision will be made by 5 men,after a couple public comment hearings(wich never seem to have any influence) not jo blow at the office.

NONYA · « **Reply #67 on:** February 23, 2007, 02:38:31 PM »

The meetings will be held in 2008(we have a bi-annual rule change law) why dont you show up and share your opinion with the commisioners ad see how receptive they are.See ya there!

NONYA · « **Reply #68 on:** February 23, 2007, 03:00:07 PM »

BTW what did you plan on doing if you found out it was illegal here,were you going to turn me in for not turning them in ROFL!Shame on you if you wernt going to do the right thing and turn me in!!!LOL You doubt my word so strongly you called MT to verify my data?WOW buddy you have some conviction!If you think you are going to stop these changes in any state by argueing with me you are mistaken,you need to take your show on the road,I think Ids commision will be voting on it before Montana so you might wanna relocate there.As soon as they post the commisions agenda for 2008 i will post it here on GBO so you can plan your trip,Im sure with convictions as strong as yours you will be here to defend your rights when they allow public comment.Ill even let you crash in my extra room and introduce you to the 1000 yard elk club so you can mingle with your people!

nomosendero · « **Reply #69 on:** February 23, 2007, 03:21:55 PM »

Quote from: NONYA on February 23, 2007, 02:34:43 PM

The guy awnsering the phone at the F&G office dont make the decisions,a group of F&G commisioners made up of ranchers and hunters appointed by our Dem Gov. makes them,Im pretty sure you dont know anything about them,they are civilians,most of them have ranching roots and I can gaurantee you that if this issue goes up in front of the current commision it will be a non issue.Im glad you made an effort to colect the opinion of the guy awnsering the phone and i doubt he is in any position to make public releases about his opions.Why dont you call up the commisioner that is proposing the issue and his cosponsor and see if they want to talk.This decision will be made by 5 men,after a couple public comment hearings(wich never seem to have any influence) not jo blow at the office.

Having a Demcrap Gov. may help, if he appoints folks like his friends in the Northeast. Best of luck to you & your Democrap friends.

nomosendero · « **Reply #70 on:** February 23, 2007, 03:24:46 PM »

Quote from: NONYA on February 23, 2007, 02:38:31 PM

The meetings will be held in 2008(we have a bi-annual rule change law) why dont you show up and share your opinion with the commisioners ad see how receptive they are.See ya there!

A very stupid comment. I don't live their & I believe that would matter in any State.

NONYA · « **Reply #71 on:** February 23, 2007, 03:31:08 PM »

You DO NOT have to be a resident to speak at the public comment meetings,you just have to state if your a resident or non resident,you can call Jo down at the F&G office to verify this data and get his personal opinion on the matter,Im sure you will.I have always voted Rep but our Democrap Gov has done more for hunters here in MT than the past Rep did during her entire term.He reinstated the buffalo hunt after the rep gov bowed down to the antis and put it on hold,he also pressed the legislature to aprove our new wolf and grizzly tags for 2008,wich they did.Our Dem Gov is made from the "old dem" mold,he is a ranch owner,hunter,fisherman and is as conservative as any Dem I know about.So far he has done a better job of being a conservative than our Rep Gov ever did.

nomosendero · « **Reply #72 on:** February 23, 2007, 03:31:21 PM »

Quote from: NONYA on February 23, 2007, 03:00:07 PM

BTW what did you plan on doing if you found out it was illegal here,were you going to turn me in for not turning them in ROFL!Shame on you if you wernt going to do the right thing and turn me in!!!LOL You doubt my word so strongly you called MT to verify my data?WOW buddy you have some conviction!If you think you are going to stop these changes in any state by argueing with me you are mistaken,you need to take your show on the road,I think Ids commision will be voting on it before Montana so you might wanna relocate there.As soon as they post the commisions agenda for 2008 i will post it here on GBO so you can plan your trip,Im sure with convictions as strong as yours you will be here to defend your rights when they allow public comment.Ill even let you crash in my extra room and introduce you to the 1000 yard elk club so you can mingle with your people!

Again, you don't know the whole reason I called, nor is it your business. BTW, one of the things I asked about was whether you could use FMJ in all rounds & he told me their were no restrictions for that with any caliber. I did find that interesting & interesting that your only concern is FMJ in 50BMG only. A FMJ would overpenetrate in many rounds, I guess you have concern only for the 50.

Zachary · « **Reply #73 on:** February 23, 2007, 03:33:22 PM »

Guys, I already said be careful. Things are starting to get ugly between the two of you. Name calling, etc. has no place here. If you want to continue in this manner, then do so by PM. Remember, we have children reviewing these posts too.

Zachary

nomosendero · « **Reply #74 on:** February 23, 2007, 03:33:37 PM »

Quote from: NONYA on February 23, 2007, 03:31:08 PM

You DO NOT have to be a resident to speak at the public comment meetings,you just have to state if your a resident or non resident,you can call Jo down at the F&G office to verify this data and get his personal opinion on the matter,Im sure you will.I have always voted Rep but our Democrap Gov has done more for hunters here in MT than the past Rep did during her entire term.He reinstated the buffalo hunt after the rep gov bowed down to the antis and put it on hold,he also pressed the legislature to aprove our new wolf and grizzly tags for 2008,wich they did.Our Dem Gov is made from the "old dem" mold,he is a ranch owner,hunter,fisherman and is as conservative as any Dem I know about.So far he has done a better job of being a conservative than our Rep Gov ever did.

And the comment of a non-res would nopt matter, that's why they ask if you are a res, give me a break.

NONYA · « **Reply #75 on:** February 23, 2007, 03:36:16 PM »

The type of bullet used was only mentioned because the group i know is using them,a fmj out of a 50 bmg that willl fly 2500 yards is more of a concern than of a smaller caliber,I dont know anyone besides the 50bmg crowd who uses fmjs on deer and elk,do you?You stated that you called them and asked about the fmjs,was it just a coincidencethat you were calling the MT F&G at the same time?

nomosendero · « **Reply #76 on:** February 23, 2007, 03:37:06 PM »

The question again.

Jim Zumbo said that the AR has no place in the hunting field.

You said that the 50BMG has no place in the hunting world.

So, the question is, which is worse for the gun owner & 2nd Amendment & why.

You have not answered that.

NONYA · « **Reply #77 on:** February 23, 2007, 03:45:49 PM »

WRONG! i said that I know a group that shoots elk from the road with thier 50bmgs and i didnt like it,I said that I didnt agree with they way they were doing it,making an attempt to shoot game with a rifle designed to shoot 1000+ yards.I said that this issue was already on the docket for MT and i supported it because of guys like the ones i know.These rifles arnt designed to be shoulder fired or shot at a typical hunting range.I said i didnt like being in the same area as a person firing this 50 bmg up onto a hillsdie from a road.This hunting restriction wouldnt prevet them from being used on varmits like prarie dogs,coyotes ect and i never said they should be.An ar is a style of firearm,my opinion is only about one cartridge,BIG difference.JZ didnt even want to see people using a 223 ar on coyotes and he called the guys doing it terrorists,BIG difference.You should turn up at these meetings just so you can chastize the people who stand up and support the change,im sure they would love to hear it.

nomosendero · « **Reply #78 on:** February 23, 2007, 03:54:35 PM »

You said yourself that if calibers were formed on the case(hence other cartridges), then they would need to take another look, remember, & it was a problem for cartridges that could be shot too far, which left things a little open. So you talk about shooting an animal at 600, we know that you think 1,000 is too far (it is too far for ME), so I guess we need to hear from you if 625 is OK, 700, 800, what & what cartridges NONYA thinks are OK.

If you can't see how Zumbo's statement & yours can't be used the same way, fine. Many of us can & do.

NONYA · « **Reply #79 on:** February 23, 2007, 04:03:54 PM »

Think what you you want,feel however you want to feel,im done jumping through your hoops of BS and i have made my opinion clear 100 times to everyone who asked and reasked it,Im done playing your games of you said this and that means this and its the same as this....agree we disagree or argue with yourself because i have run my course with this circus and i have much better things to do on a Friday night than defend my opinion to to you,no hard feelings Im just done discussing this topic.

nomosendero · « **Reply #80 on:** February 23, 2007, 04:11:59 PM »

I am not sure how it is "my game" when I repeat your statements.

But I do feel that agreeing to disagree is not a bad thing.

victorcharlie · « **Reply #81 on:** February 23, 2007, 05:08:25 PM »

Quote from: nomosendero on February 23, 2007, 02:07:01 AM

Apparantly, JZ didn't care what people thought either until he saw what it would do to his wallet. Not caring what people think explains why you keep talking about it even when you know that saying a 50 has no place in the hunting World has the same effect
as JZ saying that the AR has no place in hunting. Yes, we get it that you don't care & since it won't effect your wallet like it did with Zumbo, I am sure you will continue to flap your jaw about it. GBO has a large audience & the conversations spread to Predator Masters & the other forums. So, we go from a couple of hundred thousand that see it & those viewers going to other forums & talking to people on the street & the number easily changes to a couple of million. Not a biggie though, just the price we ALL
need to pay because some fat boys made a guy mad. And these boys are their own worst enemy, but we would have never heard of them at a National level if it weren't for this forum. I am glad they are their own worst enemy.

I am surprised that FMJ bullets are legal in MT. If they are, then they could be used in 30-06, 308, 7X57, etc. Just because someone uses a 50 BMG does not mean he is useing a FMJ.

Yep.......I believe you just put one in the X ring.......+1

MI VHNTR · « **Reply #82 on:** February 23, 2007, 05:38:38 PM »

nomosendero, you won't get a straight answer on this subject, don't even try. You're lucky not to have your posts pulled for disagreeing with a person with such a deep insight of firearms. That's one way to silence the opposing viewpoint and make yourself the only voice to be heard on an issue.

You are also correct when you said that an anti-gun statement is an anti-gun statement. It can be twisted, rephrased, rewritten, denied and even ignored, but it's still an anti-gun statement. One person (zumbo) wants ARs banned and another person (unnamed to avoid repercussions) "only" wants the 50 cal BMG banned, oops restricted. It's the same anti-gun message in either case, just worded differently. Either would accomplish the same thing and in the end and another piece of the Second Amendment would be gone forever.
MI VHNTR

NRA Endowment Member
The Second Amendment isn't about hunting. It's about Freedom.

azshooter · « **Reply #83 on:** February 24, 2007, 03:56:31 AM »

Its time for the bigoted, this gun is good and tis gun is bad to hunt with to end. My 45-70 will sail through lots of critters including deer and elk. There is nothing wrong with someone wanting to use a .50 to hunt with as ling as they can place the shot for a clean kill. Good luck hauling around a 30 lb hunting rifle but thats your business not mine. Don't be a Fudd=Don't be Bigot. Support your fellow hunters. and stay out of their business

victorcharlie · « **Reply #84 on:** February 24, 2007, 04:47:52 AM »

Quote from: azshooter on February 24, 2007, 03:56:31 AM

Its time for the bigoted, this gun is good and tis gun is bad to hunt with to end. My 45-70 will sail through lots of critters including deer and elk. There is nothing wrong with someone wanting to use a .50 to hunt with as ling as they can place the shot for a clean kill. Good luck hauling around a 30 lb hunting rifle but thats your business not mine. Don't be a Fudd=Don't be Bigot. Support your fellow hunters. and stay out of their business

Bingo! +1!

I agree 100%.....you go clean up your back yard.....and I'll take care of mine.......

Way to many people want to make other peoples affairs their business........

Mac11700 · « **Reply #85 on:** February 24, 2007, 07:10:08 AM »

Quote from: NONYA on February 22, 2007, 07:52:27 PM

If you want to use a 50 bmg anti light vehicle round to shoot a deer at 1000 yards go ahead,but dont expect me to like it or agree that it is a sporting or safe way of hunting just because its legal,how far do you think that fmj round goes after it passes through a deer or elk,another mile?.It plays into the hands of the anti hunters and portrays hunting and hunters exactly as they would like people to see it.If this new trend hadnt been splashed across magazine covers and hunting shows it wouldnt be an issue,but now everyone is talking about it and the state F&G commisions are going to do thier best to squash it.It wasnt the guy like me that doesnt like it that brought it to thier attention it was the guys doing it and making sure everyone hears about it,THEY are thier own worst enemy,I dont propose reg changes or sit on the commision that votes,but I will share my opinion when the issue arises and I dont give a damn what anyone in an online forum thinks about it.

Quote

They ARE using fmj bullets and its not illegal in MT,so hey its ok RIGHT?

Nonya:

I don't advocate using a FMJ bullet on any critter I shoot...but my question to you is a simple one...Why is it now your saying they are using this ammo...when in the past you never said they were.? I mean with all the hub bub...and the other 6 page thread on the 50...one would think that you would have stated that was what they were using...I went back to it..and checked and saw no mention of there...Perhaps an oversight on you part due to your anger they were using them?

The FMJ should be what your trying to demonize in the hunting world...not not the caliber. There are frangible bullets that can and should be used..and most of the guys I know that have 50's use them...not the cheaper military rounds.

I fully agree that this type of round shouldn't be used to harvest game with...it wasn't designed to do that...in any caliber ...I wonder if folks are using the cheap military ammo in their 6.5x55's, 7mm's,308's, 30-06's....in your state? If they are they are stupid...and any hunter knows this...The way I see it is if they have gone to the 50 to hunt...they should bear the extra expense and get real hunting ammo for it...

You also have a problem with folks setting up benches and shooting off of them..You don't agree with that..and have stated so time and again..to you it isn't hunting...it isn't to many people ..they feel it violates some code of conduct a hunter is supposed to have...that it goes against the "spirit" of hunting...many feel you have to put all kinds of effort into it to achieve any satisfaction out of it...That isn't always the case...many feel they want to be accurate when shooting long range..so they use a portable bench to do this..While you don't or wouldn't...doesn't mean they look at it differently and they probably get a great deal of satisfaction out of it..Others have no choice due to health issues or physical impairment...and it is the only way they can get out and hunt...My point is you or many may not call it hunting...but I assure you...they do...I see no difference between a person who sets up a bench and shoots off of it...than say a person who has a shooting rail on his tree stand who climbs up 30 feet in the air and shoots off of it...Both are doing the same thing...both are stationary waiting for the animal to show up...both have a solid platform to shoot off of...neither is tracking their game on foot and working into a shooting position that you or I would do...but...they are still hunting...no matter of our view point on what they are doing

Also...some have made statements that shooting an animal at 1000 yards isn't hunting..Even you have stated you have taken long shots at animals...600-700 yards if I remember correctly...and I remember some here took you to task over it...There isn't a magical cut off on yardage when it turns hunting into shooting...It isn't up to someone else to tell another person how to hunt..or what to call it...It is the individual who is doing it..It is the individual to determine when to pull the trigger...Educate the would be hunter better than what is happening now...and you will not see an abundance of long range shooters flocking to the fields with to small of calibers...and in reality...there won't be that many using the 50 cal either...

No man has a right to tell another man how to harvest his game...People get freaked out over the caliber issue why too much...and yes while there is always the possibility of pass thru shots hitting someone..I have heard of no such incident happening with the 50...I have heard hundreds of stories of that and others being shot with rifles like 30-30's...308's...30-06's...

Removing the gun from being able to hunt with it..will makes it easier to have that gun banned completely...and don't think for 1 second that your Democrap governor won't sign into legislation what the democrap congress tells him too...He may be a rancher...but he still is controlled by the democrap party...no matter how much he has done...He would be committing political suicide if he went against them once they are in control of the white house again...and you can rest assure your initiative to get it banned from the hunting field will only help them finish it off for the rest of us...

You can try to refute what I've said if you want...but the majority of folks that have posted here and on all the other threads see the bigger picture of what is happening...we know full well that the democraps will push thru a ton of anti gun legislation at the first opportunity...So...in Nonya's little world it may seem to be the best thing to get it banned from the hunting...but to the rest of us we see it as the first step to getting it banned completely...I know you say you don't want this to happen...and it isn't your intent...but it is the reality of your actions...wither you want to believe it or not...

One last thing...I won't agree to dis-agree with you...as vehemently as you push for it to be banned from the hunting fields...I will do just the same here to keep from having any anti gun legislation passed ...I won't give them any additional leverage to take away another gun from me...I won't allow my personal preferences of hunting styles to influence me into to hating one type of hunter over another...because this is exactly what you have done.

Mac

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #86 on:** February 24, 2007, 08:09:44 AM »

Mac11700, I like the post above. I agree with it 100%
The reason I agreed to disagree with NONYA was because, I don't think he is worth the effort. He has already stated he will not change, no matter how much a lot of us here told him, we did not agree with his statements. Even when we pointed out what he said was no different than what Zumbo said. We all know where he stands on the issue, and myself, I will not take any of his posts with any credibility.

My stance has not changed, I just don't want other members coming to threads, as they have, telling us Graybeard told us to knock it off. Or they are tired of hearing us go back and forth. (You know who you are)

I think this needs to be out in the open and people need to know just how others think, weather we all agree or not, we know where others stand. That way you know who your friend's are and who is the enemy.

nomosendero · « **Reply #87 on:** February 24, 2007, 09:58:04 AM »

Same here Redhawk. I repeated the term only in reference to the back & forth posts between me & him in this thread, not about future discussions or even this one if he decides to re enter after he said he would not. I want to be clear about that. Otherwise, I
am done with this one, as the point has allready been made.

Skunk · « **Reply #88 on:** February 24, 2007, 10:50:56 AM »

Mac,

Great post to finish off this thread. I like your style.

Skunk

Mac11700 · « **Reply #89 on:** February 24, 2007, 11:16:30 AM »

Redhawk1: and Skunk....I have this to say...and then I'll wait to see if it has done any good...

Nonya is intitaled to his opinion...and is free to post it...I think he is worth trying to discuss an issue with...because if he can see the true logic and realizes why so many got upset with him...then we are all the better for doing so...and we all can continue on...and fight the good fight against those who are against our sport...If he still refuses to understand...and his future statements still mirrors an anti-gun stance...then as he has said before he's a "big boy" and can take what ever is said as a result of it...Just as Zumbo will have to...even though Zumbo now understands what his blunder cost him...and is making lame excuses for it...his case is similar...but not exact to what is happening here...but with the timing of both...are defiantly linked in the minds of many......Nonya isn't a paid writer......he is an individual who post here...and has always been one of us...and has a-lot to share...It isn't a matter of him being paid a wage by writing for us..It's all about his supporting a ban on a rifle type or a particular caliber for hunting that causes so much controversy...and....for one reason or another.....is allowing his personal preferences to dictate what he says here that causes trouble. In Zumbo's case...he is a well known public figure...hence the quick response from those outraged over his comments from all over the web..and mainstream media...Nonya on the other hand is well known on this forum...hence the quick outpouring of remarks after he makes similar comments... by all of us.. One of his problems is he is unable to see the similarity between what he and Zumbo said...and how stance on the 50 and the things he has said and agreed with can be the same ...The other is his utter refusal to concede that his way isn't the only accepted way of hunting...and that there are thousands of visitors who frequent this site without ever registering or making 1 post...He fails to see the relation to what he says and the fact that what any of us say can be used elsewhere off this forum... He is also allowing his personal preferences to dictate his actions and his post.....this I feel is because he is pre-disposed towards not only getting the gun banned from hunting but also a paticular style of hunting banned as well..He should be concentrating on the bullet that shouldn't be allowed to be used in his state for taking big game...not the gun...a very simple solution to all of this and one I feel most everyone would readily agree with...If he has a problem with many of our reactions...he really needs to step back and consider what we are saying...instead of flat out refusing to do so..If he doesn't...well...we tried...and let the chips fall where they may...

Mac