Brady's calling your bolt action gun a "Sniper Rifle"

[NONYA]

Mac

 The rare appearance of the adult approach you just took in this post would have transgressed post after post of hate and negativity.Its really nice to know that there is one guy on the other side of the issue that has the maturity to give my side 2 minutes of thought instead of attacking and labeling,anything to cause anger.The truth of the matter is that i shared my opinion months before the JZ affair but it gave the "guys" yet another chance to dig it up and splash my name accross every thread they could find,I try to keep myself in check and share my opinion and experience without falling into thier rut but its pretty hard with 4 or 5 guys calling names(enemy,anti,zumbo,ect) and telling me Im wrong and there is no other option avaliable for me if Im going to be "right".I live with this style of hunting going on every season,used to be a couple guys and it was interesting,now it the newest hot trend and the number of people running around here with Barretts am 50 bmg uppers would suprise you.The reason it ended up on the F&G proposal is beacuse the F&G wardens asked for it after a few incidents with shooting over property lines and "road shooters",not becuse Im disgusted with it and ran down there and asked for it,nor will i have a vote when and if the issue ever make sit to a vote.I have no say in this issue other than sharing my opinion here,i regret ever doing it becuse it has reduced a few guys to children and I am really suprised by the behavior of pepole i thought were adults.I have considered EVERYTHING that has been said with maturity and some of you have made good points,but those are rare points because most just want to point fingers and paint a big A on my chest,you will never gain anything by defending your opinon with anger and negative attitudes.I dont have any influence on the changes that might be made here and Im not going to try to lend any,I am of the opinion that if the proposal makes it to a vote its a done deal because the current comision is full of Dem appointed commisioners that are purist hunters and ranchers who have no idea what a BMG is.If the guys that so adamently defend this issue want to help thier cause they should stat writing thier state reps and forget about me,Im one of many with this opinion and most of us will never go any further than an opinion,divert your energy towards the people that make the decisions if you trully care and arnt just out to play e bully,I suggest you use some of the tact that mac has shown when doing it,i doubt your F&G commisoners will stand by why you call them the enemy antis.
Thanx Mac

[Mac11700]

Nonya..

I am one of the guys from the beginning that is totally opposed to any type of legislation that will take away another type of rifle I can use..I do hope you can now see that...I also hope you can realize how perilous a situation we all are in...All of us...even those hunters amongst us who choose to hunt from a bench...We all have the right to do so...with any rifle we choose to use...The 50BMG is one of them...provided one uses the correct ammo in it..I know we sometimes forget that others don't share our paticular viewpoint..but each has a right to it...and a right to hunt as they choose to...not some ideal taken from a novel..

As to those few who go beyond all decency in your area...those who have done a few incidents with shooting over property lines and "road shooters" in general... well this is something your conservation department and local law enforcement should have to deal with..If your state allows any type of road hunting..it will have to be brought up and dealt with if all are opposed to this type of hunting in your state...Those that are shooting across some ones property with out permission can and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent  the law allows for...

You have to understand..making comments towards someones physical impairment ...be it over weight or handicapped without knowing why they are utilizing a paticular hunting style...can be construed as being  very hypocritical unless you give the full story...not just what your angry about...


50 bmg's are really no different than any other higher powered rifle...both can cause death and dismemberment if used incorrectly...so please when speaking of it at your F&G meetings or in a public venue such as here at GBO...explain it as it really is...Enlighten those who would seek a ban on the rifle for hunting... for a few idiots that should be prosecuted in your area...

We all have different ideas of what hunting is...and how we go about it...Condemning one group over their style is wrong..and completely self centered...We all are in this fight...and it would be much better for all if we can fight the fight against those who want to completely do away with it together...instead of fighting each other...Those that break the laws should be punished...and are the real threat we honest hunters should be turning against...not each other here...

You may not realize just how many people read what we post...but it is in the thousands...and folks seem to forget that fact...and you can bet your last dollar that there are those who do that are card carrying peta members and the like...They can and will use whatever they can get their grimy little hands on to spread their BS message

If I have offended you with my statements I do apologize...but I want you to know..I still will speak out against those who for one reason or another seem to be siding with those who's sole purpose is to reduce our freedoms... Hopefully to educate them and to get them to understand what we are truly up against.

Mac

[NONYA]

Mac

 i wish I had the same chance to educate some by taking them hunting with these guys,it would be an eye opener for sure.They hunt off the logging roads beacuse it is legal,county/highway routes you have to be 50 ft off the center line to shoot,logging roads dont have this rule and you can shoot from anywhere but a vehicle.As far as thier "impairments" go thier only handi cap is a bunch of beer bellys that hang over thier crotch,none of the guys i know have any disability other than thier lack of self respect,I am handicapped,i was born with one good arm and one that has 20% strength and 10% mobility,I also have Epilepsy with grand maul seizures that put me down for a week every time i have one,I dont hunt from a vehicle even though i could get a permit to do so from the F&G,I have had seizures while hunting and i have injured myself in the process of flopping down a mountian side while bear hunting on my own.I have even taken up bow hunting in the last 3 years after the MT f&g allowed me to use a draw lock system on my bow because i cant support te weight of the bow with my left arm,i know what it means to be handicapped and the guys i now are far from it.The wardens would rather have a ruling against it so they dont have to deal with the problems that arise from the few.They would rather have a blanket law so there is no question when they encounter these guys.Im sure the majority of the guys using them are 100% law abiding and take measures to make sure they are safe,i wish they could just regulate the slobs but there is no way.The fmj bullet issue came up about 8 years ago and that commision(my uncle was a commisioner at the time) brushed it under the rug because they didnt want to rule on anything to do with guns or ammo,all aspiring polaticions that were afraid to make any enemys.This is another rule issue that peole just assume will take care of itself,not many people even consider hunting biggame with a fmj,but these guys do,they bitch about the cost of loading or buying good ammo,matter of fact they bitch about the price of the fmj surplus they shoot.You havnt offended me with anything you have said and its a nice change to have a grown up conversation about it.

[Mac11700]

Nonya:

There will always be some who take advantage of their location to break the rules of decency...it is a sad fact of life ... While they may disgust you in their approach to the sport...don't throw that blanket over the entire shooting community because of the actions of a few..

This is what it seemed to me you were doing...and I am quite certain to many others posting here as well...I do know for a fact that several anti hunting groups are looking to the internet to garner info that can be taken out of context and used against us..While I can't say for sure GBO is one of them..They are doing this never the less...I do unfortunately work around several PETA members...and hear some of their BS chatter and of what & where they are getting their information from...and how they can twist some of the simplest things around to make us all look like drunken cretins running around in the woods shooting at anything that moves..So I understand how you could want to stop that from happening in your case there...It is unfortunate but..we have to take the bad with the good..for the sake of all...no matter what our convictions are. We are all at war with these people who want to rid the world of the guns and the hunters who use them...and while we may never hold the same opinion on certain issues...we have to come to the middle to fight against the left wing gun grabbers...otherwise we all loose in the end..If we allow ourselves to be divided so easily on what hunting is..and when does it stop being hunting and just shooting...then we have already lost...

While long range hunting may not seem an appropriate way to hunt to many or may not even be considered to be hunting by the same...many have their own reasons for choosing to hunt this way and consider it hunting..Their rights and opinions matter as well...I know with your disabilities it may seem to you..that  if you can struggle thru hunting in the bush...they too should..This may seem logical..but the reality is.. it is not..As I said before...We each have to make the choice on how & where we hunt...and by what means we elect to pursue the game we hunt...Hunting is really a personal thing..not a shared one...Long ago we left the notion of hunting as a group for survival of the clan.....though we all may share a camp fire with our friends when we do hunt these days...We all may have similar reasons...and viewpoints.but..you have to remember...many do not...and we can't forget that simple thing...least we fall back into the trap of disrespecting others....and saying one way is better than another...when in fact they all are really the same...



Mac

[Redhawk1]

Mac

 The rare appearance of the adult approach you just took in this post would have transgressed post after post of hate and negativity.Its really nice to know that there is one guy on the other side of the issue that has the maturity to give my side 2 minutes of thought instead of attacking and labeling,anything to cause anger.The truth of the matter is that i shared my opinion months before the JZ affair but it gave the "guys" yet another chance to dig it up and splash my name accross every thread they could find,I try to keep myself in check and share my opinion and experience without falling into thier rut but its pretty hard with 4 or 5 guys calling names(enemy,anti,zumbo,ect) and telling me Im wrong and there is no other option avaliable for me if Im going to be "right".I live with this style of hunting going on every season,used to be a couple guys and it was interesting,now it the newest hot trend and the number of people running around here with Barretts am 50 bmg uppers would suprise you.The reason it ended up on the F&G proposal is beacuse the F&G wardens asked for it after a few incidents with shooting over property lines and "road shooters",not becuse Im disgusted with it and ran down there and asked for it,nor will i have a vote when and if the issue ever make sit to a vote.I have no say in this issue other than sharing my opinion here,i regret ever doing it becuse it has reduced a few guys to children and I am really suprised by the behavior of pepole i thought were adults.I have considered EVERYTHING that has been said with maturity and some of you have made good points,but those are rare points because most just want to point fingers and paint a big A on my chest,you will never gain anything by defending your opinon with anger and negative attitudes.I dont have any influence on the changes that might be made here and Im not going to try to lend any,I am of the opinion that if the proposal makes it to a vote its a done deal because the current comision is full of Dem appointed commisioners that are purist hunters and ranchers who have no idea what a BMG is.If the guys that so adamently defend this issue want to help thier cause they should stat writing thier state reps and forget about me,Im one of many with this opinion and most of us will never go any further than an opinion,divert your energy towards the people that make the decisions if you trully care and arnt just out to play e bully,I suggest you use some of the tact that mac has shown when doing it,i doubt your F&G commisoners will stand by why you call them the enemy antis.
Thanx Mac

NONYA, you talk about using tact and an adult approach and not being childish.  Go back to the discussion about the 50 caliber ban for hunting thread, you will see, you were the one slinging the childish remarks, you got upset when we gave it back to you. Please read it all again from page one like I did. You were talking about the morons that use the 50 BMG , then went on about people being fat slobs and not until page 4 and 5 did it really get heated between a lot of us, you included.

Don't just point the finger at the rest of us, when you point you finger at us, look at your hand, there is three pointed back at you.  You had as much part of that conversation as we did. 

You did not realize when you posted all your comment that Zumbo would do the same thing and commit career suicide.  But you did not have a problem blasting him for like comments you made yourself. The only difference was it was a different gun. I will give you one thing though, you did not talk about an all out ban on the 50 BMG, and you did not call anyone a terrorist. Other than that, I could not tell the difference. That was the problem I had with your posts.

[NONYA]

Whatever...Im not going to hide my true feelings on the insanly remote chance that some anti could maybe possibly find some solace in it.BTW Redhawk i was informed by PM  today that I should take a second look at youR second post in the 50 ban thread in the big bore forum,let me remind you WHAT YOU SAID...

"I don't think the 50 BMG should be banned to own, but I don't think it has a place in the hunting world either. The 50 BMG should be excluded in itself not as a 50 cal ban. "
Redhawk

I think you have redifined the defenition of hypocrisy and absolute ignorance by attacking me for saying THE SAME EXACT THING!Those of you,Redhawk excluded tht want to chastise me over my opinion better take a lok at the original thread.http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/smf/index.php/topic,108584.0.html

[nomosendero]

Whatever...Im not going to hide my true feelings on the insanly remote chance that some anti could maybe possibly find some solace in it.BTW Redhawk i was informed by PM  today that I should take a second look at youR second post in the 50 ban thread in the big bore forum,let me remind you WHAT YOU SAID...

"I don't think the 50 BMG should be banned to own, but I don't think it has a place in the hunting world either. The 50 BMG should be excluded in itself not as a 50 cal ban. "
Redhawk

I think you have redifined the defenition of hypocrisy and absolute ignorance by attacking me for saying THE SAME EXACT THING!Those of you,Redhawk excluded tht want to chastise me over my opinion better take a lok at the original thread.http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/smf/index.php/topic,108584.0.html

It is good that you showed what he said along with that, that it is legal & ok & that HE DID NOT think it should be banned, which makes the situation quite different when viewed in whole, because of the simple matter of CONTEXT.

I know of a couple of guns that I have no use for, but I would not want them banned because they bother me, I am just one of many & better than no one.

[nomosendero]

Mac

 i wish I had the same chance to educate some by taking them hunting with these guys,it would be an eye opener for sure.They hunt off the logging roads beacuse it is legal,county/highway routes you have to be 50 ft off the center line to shoot,logging roads dont have this rule and you can shoot from anywhere but a vehicle.As far as thier "impairments" go thier only handi cap is a bunch of beer bellys that hang over thier crotch,none of the guys i know have any disability other than thier lack of self respect,I am handicapped,i was born with one good arm and one that has 20% strength and 10% mobility,I also have Epilepsy with grand maul seizures that put me down for a week every time i have one,I dont hunt from a vehicle even though i could get a permit to do so from the F&G,I have had seizures while hunting and i have injured myself in the process of flopping down a mountian side while bear hunting on my own.I have even taken up bow hunting in the last 3 years after the MT f&g allowed me to use a draw lock system on my bow because i cant support te weight of the bow with my left arm,i know what it means to be handicapped and the guys i now are far from it.The wardens would rather have a ruling against it so they dont have to deal with the problems that arise from the few.They would rather have a blanket law so there is no question when they encounter these guys.Im sure the majority of the guys using them are 100% law abiding and take measures to make sure they are safe,i wish they could just regulate the slobs but there is no way.The fmj bullet issue came up about 8 years ago and that commision(my uncle was a commisioner at the time) brushed it under the rug because they didnt want to rule on anything to do with guns or ammo,all aspiring polaticions that were afraid to make any enemys.This is another rule issue that peole just assume will take care of itself,not many people even consider hunting biggame with a fmj,but these guys do,they bitch about the cost of loading or buying good ammo,matter of fact they bitch about the price of the fmj surplus they shoot.You havnt offended me with anything you have said and its a nice change to have a grown up conversation about it.

Yes, it appears these guys could qualify as SLOB hunters, & that is too bad. I have known of Bow hunters who wound Deer & shoot sloppy & beyond their capabilities, but I don't want bow hunting banned. As you said before, it is sad that a few make some things hard for the majority. Well, that is the same for robbers that use handguns, I don't want my handguns banned because of the abuse of a few.

I don't see anything that these guys do with the 50 cals. that can't be done with a big 338 like the Lapua or 338 Edge or 300RUM for that matter.
Not one thing has been described that could not be duplicated by especially a 338 cal. I know of some that are built for long range that weigh 35-60# and set up on tables, so the situation would be the same.
So, these other rounds could be brought up for consideration later & it gets easier to ban each time & if we are lucky in 10-15 years we can have a 30-30. Anti's know how to play this & we have been watching it in some States for years.

FMJ's are a different matter & should be dealt with & dealing with that has no effect in limiting a weapon.

[NONYA]

Everyone knows that it could possibly be done with a 338 and maybe it has,but this group goes out with the INTENT of shoot 1000 or more yards,you cant get your 1000yrd elk patch unless its verifie by other members of thier club,isnt that lovley.I know a couple guys who own 338s and none of them head out looking for a 1000 yard shot on an elk.I am just as angry about the guys bringing this into the spotlight and making it an issue as the act itself,it realy sucks,but as my uncle told me the commisioners have to do somthing every year or there wont be anee for them,I took this to mean that they will continue to add regulation regardless of need just to insure thier need.According to his post he wants exactly what I was talking about in my first posts,but now Im the evil gun grabber trying to take away his rights,Im the anti with covert ideals,Im the enemy.

[Mac11700]

My only hope is that we can put aside what all of us including myself has brought to the table on this issue...

Let us not harbor anymore bad thoughts or ridicule each other any longer over it gentlemen...we all said things that wasn't pleasant..in hopes of enlightening others to the reality of the situation.Can we please all act as adults and try to rectify the issue here?

I do believe Nonya understands how we feel on the subject...as I am quite sure we all now understand how he feels...The issue should be towards rebuilding the trust here...

Anyone can change their viewpoint...at anytime...That is the difference between being ignorant...and stupid...This is what sets us above all the other species on the planet...being able to reason...and what is certainly needed here is..reasoning

We have a wonderful opportunity to show others we are all good people here...That all of us are united against those who would try to take our guns and our hunting opportunities away from us... Yes...even Nonya...If he is willing to understand the why in our rebuttal...can we not at least listen to his...and see if we can not offer a equitable solution to his situation without the continuation of hostilities towards each other?...Can we not just admit we acted out towards each other and and offer an apology to each other and try to work together for the betterment of all...? Are we not big enough...or Christian enough to do that for each other?

Ask yourselves these questions and answer truthfully...

1) Do I believe I am acting in a Christian manner in my relationships here?
2) Can I forgive and forget even when others aren't willing to?
3)Can I respect others opinions on hunting when the don't reflect my views.
4) Will I offer a my opinion in a manner that can be beneficial to someone who is saying something contrary to my beliefs?

I can honestly answer yes to all 4...with #4 being the hardest...and #2 running a close second...but...I can still answer yes to all 4...How about you all...What say ya

Mac

[nomosendero]

Everyone knows that it could possibly be done with a 338 and maybe it has,but this group goes out with the INTENT of shoot 1000 or more yards,you cant get your 1000yrd elk patch unless its verifie by other members of thier club,isnt that lovley.I know a couple guys who own 338s and none of them head out looking for a 1000 yard shot on an elk.I am just as angry about the guys bringing this into the spotlight and making it an issue as the act itself,it realy stinks,but as my uncle told me the commisioners have to do somthing every year or there wont be anee for them,I took this to mean that they will continue to add regulation regardless of need just to insure thier need.According to his post he wants exactly what I was talking about in my first posts,but now Im the evil gun grabber trying to take away his rights,Im the anti with covert ideals,Im the enemy.

So that goes back to opening all of us up to a bad situation just to stop a small group of idiots. It is a bad trade off, to stop these people by proposing a ban. Think about it, the weapons will change a little & then another ban will be needed.

If the commissioners need to do something each year, they may think about constructive game management laws or trophy management laws in
limited areas, instead of giving anti's momentum, regardless of the original intention.

[nomosendero]

My only hope is that we can put aside what all of us including myself has brought to the table on this issue...

Let us not harbor anymore bad thoughts or ridicule each other any longer over it gentlemen...we all said things that wasn't pleasant..in hopes of enlightening others to the reality of the situation.Can we please all act as adults and try to rectify the issue here?

I do believe Nonya understands how we feel on the subject...as I am quite sure we all now understand how he feels...The issue should be towards rebuilding the trust here...

Anyone can change their viewpoint...at anytime...That is the difference between being ignorant...and stupid...This is what sets us above all the other species on the planet...being able to reason...and what is certainly needed here is..reasoning

We have a wonderful opportunity to show others we are all good people here...That all of us are united against those who would try to take our guns and our hunting opportunities away from us... Yes...even Nonya...If he is willing to understand the why in our rebuttal...can we not at least listen to his...and see if we can not offer a equitable solution to his situation without the continuation of hostilities towards each other?...Can we not just admit we acted out towards each other and and offer an apology to each other and try to work together for the betterment of all...? Are we not big enough...or Christian enough to do that for each other?

Ask yourselves these questions and answer truthfully...

1) Do I believe I am acting in a Christian manner in my relationships here?
2) Can I forgive and forget even when others aren't willing to?
3)Can I respect others opinions on hunting when the don't reflect my views.
4) Will I offer a my opinion in a manner that can be beneficial to someone who is saying something contrary to my beliefs?

I can honestly answer yes to all 4...with #4 being the hardest...and #2 running a close second...but...I can still answer yes to all 4...How about you all...What say ya

Mac

I say yes to that, it bothered me all of last nite. I have no personal problem with Nonya, yet some of my posts don't look that way. I don't want to go there again, yet I will express the why's of statements, but more in a Christian manner.
Thanks for the lead, Mac.

[Mac11700]

I say make them pay for the good ammo to use ...and this probably won't make them stop using FMJ's...but if they get caught with them ...at least they can be dealt with...If you see them shooting across someones property..call the Sherrif or game warden..We really don't need any state taking the initiative to ban another rifle from hunting. Like I said earlier...why throw a blanket over everyone for a few jerks actions..

Mac

[NONYA]

Yes to all 4 Mac but #4 is entirly in the eye of the reader,i believe if you go back to the original thread i did share my opinion in a way that others could understand,understand my point of view and the reasons for my opinon but many decided is was anything but that.We ahve some strage regs here,for instance,we can use fmj ammo in any rifle but we can NOT use sabboted projectiles out of a BlackPowder rifle,we dont even have a black powder season so you can only use them during the general rifle season where you can use a 50 BMG,but NOT a sabboted slug,wierd huh?If were ever placed in a situation where we could do more than talk to protect our rights im sure we would all be present.

[Mac11700]

You do have some strange regulations...and I would try to bring some sense to those who can effect the changes in them if I lived there..It would take a grass roots effort...but one that could be done by enough enterprising people if they set their mind to it..and having the backing of a large pro-gun group would help immensely... Change for the good takes a herculean effort best shared by many like minded individuals...This holds true for those who want to take away our rights...and regulate them into privileges as well...

Mac

[Mac11700]

If you think I was kidding about the Dumcraps and them trying to start all over again...Please take a look at this little jewel of legislation...

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-1022

If this isn't a wake up call to everyone here about what is soon to be a reality...then you might as well turn all your guns in now..

Mac

[Redhawk1]

NONYA you are absolutely right I did say, I don't think the 50 BMG has a place in the hunting world. But I also in many post said if it is legal let them use it. Because I would personally not use one myself and I still would not use one. If legislation is going to rule the 50 BMG is not a gun they think is needed in the field, or for what ever reason they come up with, we all know eventually it is going to be removed from the hunting world. But that ban that was coming up, was including all 50 caliber guns, not just exclusive to the 50 BMG.  I just don't think we as hunter should support such an action.

Here in Delaware we can't use any centerfire cartridge to hunt with for deer, except a Shiloh Sharps or replica of the Shiloh Sharps with black powder and paper patch bullet. But if I was going to go ground hog hunting here in Delaware, I could use any centerfire round I wanted, including a 50 BMG. But I have not seen anyone here in Delaware use a 50 BMG for the ground hogs.
We have a lot of restrictions here in Delaware for our big game which consists of only Deer. Muzzleloader's, shotguns and the Shiloh sharps with BB and paper patch bullets. It was not until 2 years ago, we finally got to use handguns here in Delaware. But that is limited to a special season.
It has been a hard battle to get more gun approved for hunting in Delaware, that is way I am so opposed to any gun, round being excluded from hunting.

I don't see the 50 BMG catching on as a common hunting round, like I said before, guys have been doing it for several years before you posted on here. It is not a growing sport in my opinion. Most hunters have a problem carrying around a 8 to 9 pound gun.  I don't like slob hunters any more than you do. But even if those guys that are hunting around you with a 50 BMG could no longer hunt with a 50 BMG, they would probably still be slob hunters, but only with a different round and gun.

It is a sad fact that all of use have to deal with slob hunters, but the gun does not make the hunter a slob, it is the hunter himself.

NONYA, I would love to meet you and have a discussion on this matter, it would be so much easier to carry on a conversation with someone face to face.  I am more than sure the differences we have, would be handled a lot more different than it has in this thread or even the other thread.
It is hard to express yourself while typing, and may times, how we say it here comes across differently than if we were in the same room talking about it.

You are right, I don't have the 50 BMG issue here in Delaware, but we have our own slob hunters, and they are using the common guns most of us use. It is just something we have to deal with. But banning or supporting such an action is not the answer too your or my problem. Laws won't change some peoples actions.
I am sure we could agree with that.

NONYA, here in Delaware we just started out handgun hunting season two years ago. You should of seen the amount of hunters and anti hunters that opposed the use of handguns for hunting here. We were told, we were a bunch of Wyatt Earp wanna bees, we were going to be out there wounding all kinds of deer, F&G officers were saying they did not want to approach someone in the fields with them having handguns. There was truck loads of reasons they could come up with to not let us use handguns for hunting. All the papers were filled with articles like, even some hunters think that handguns should not be used for hunting in Delaware.  It took us several years, but we finally got the legislators to give us hand gunner's a season.
The hardest thing in the battle to swallow was, the other hunters that did not want or support handgun hunting for there own personal reasons. Some said they did not use handgun and so therefor they did not support it. Believe me, I was involved in many heated discussions on that issue, in many gun shops, in the newspaper and in the legislative hall. 

So there you have it, that is why I am such a supporter of not changing anything pertaining to which guns other think should be removed or banned from the hunting world. Even if I don't agree with some guns used, I still support it.

Sorry for the long winded post, but I think and hope all of us can unite under one cause.

[victorcharlie]

I too, would choose a different caliber given other options.  I'm sure most all of us would.

The real issue lies in the most fundamental of all human rights....i.e......the right to choose.

Hunting in my state is regulated to the point it's hard to be legal no matter how much people try.  We have a 64 page general hunting requirements manual.  We have a manual that addresses turkey hunting specifically.  We have a manual that addresses waterfowling in particular.  If you call the local TWRA and ask a question regarding a particular law, you get one answer one time and another fellow gets a different answer.

The intent is to provide better hunting opportunities for all of us.  However, the convoluted way it's presented is confusing to most hunters at best, and has in some cases created an environment where some hunters are intimidated by the presence of law enforcements officals (game wardens).

IMO we are burdened by over regulation.  I'd like to see a simplification and clarification of existing regulation, not more of the same.

[Redhawk1]

You are right victorcharlie, we are burdened by over regulation and there needs to be some kind of way to make it a little easier to understand and get clarification of existing regulation, not add more to an already existing over complicated system.

[Cement Man]

You guys don't know what "regulation" is.  Come to Illinois.  We even have a waiting period for a flintlock rifle kit.  (I feel so much safer now.)

We can; however, use certain handguns (determined by which handgun cartridge they shoot) for deer hunting now, which is a relatively recent (and positive) development. 

[nomosendero]

You guys don't know what "regulation" is.  Come to Illinois.  We even have a waiting period for a flintlock rifle kit.  (I feel so much safer now.)

We can; however, use certain handguns (determined by which handgun cartridge they shoot) for deer hunting now, which is a relatively recent (and positive) development. 

This is what we want to avoid at the National level. IL. & especially States to the North & East of Il. are sad examples of what can happen when
one gun law develops into another. What Nonya is talking about is more of a G&F issue in its ORIGINAL INTENT. But, sadly the anti's are opportunist & have learned well. The logic they would use here is the following: These guns can't be used for hunting & they have no legitimate sporting purpose, therfore only the police & military need these. They are not worried about the ORIGINAL intent. And this is how we can aid the anti's, even when you aren't one. The more States that go this way, the easier it is for the Federal Gun Laws to pass. THIS MUST BE A CONCERN WE ALL SHARE.

And of course when this happens, we realize it is was a 2nd Amendment issue all along, but it is too late.

And keep in mind the slobs will not change just because of a law. They will merely modify what they use, not how they use it. Both sides have acknowledged the fact that these boys could do the same thing with smaller caliber rounds.

[Cement Man]

Nomo,
I joined the NRA in 1962.  I belong to the Ill. State Rifle Assn. and vigorously and generously support several other hunting and shooting organizations.  I buy and give rifles and shotguns to young hunters.  I teach them how to shoot safely. I was a certified hunter safety instructor.  I have started many people of all ages into hunting who never thought about hunting before.  I argue "our cause" every chance I get.  I always "round up" and I gladly contribute to fund raisers.  I write my legislators.  I have written newspapers, magazines, and the National Safety Council when I have an issue on the way they portray firearms or shooting sports.  I hope all of the name callers here have done all of those things as well.  I have based my retirement plans and activities around hunting, shooting, and gun collecting.
I see your point.  I have all along, even though my thinking on some of the details is not aligned perfectly with yours.  I have never told anyone how far to shoot or what to shoot, except in the context of a hunter safety class. I don't like getting my supper interrupted to hear a recording of Wayne LaPierre asking for more money, but it goes with the territory, so I keep supporting and belonging.  I think Zumbo was dead wrong.
Having said all that - and it's all true, I reserve my right (yeah, I have other rights too - by law, heritage, and having earned them through service) to politely and fairly form my own opinion about some specific (legal) slob behavior of some people.  At that point, the discussion has turned obnoxious and counter-productive.  I don't want to, and won't argue my particular opinion (which has other aspects to it like states rights, which I don't believe I have seen discussed) because I really don't want to agitate or engage in the name calling and snot-mouthing that leads only to more argument and more of the same.  I suspect that there are a whole lot of others who choose the quieter route as well. 
I believe we really are in the same camp - but it doesn't mean I like or agree with everything I have read the past few days. I hope our common cause will prevail. That's all I have to say.

[Mac11700]

Cement Man:

I lived in Illinois for most of my life...and they are one of the most oppressive states around for hunting and fire arm owners..I moved across the river and enjoy it much more...I do miss hunting down in the Shawnee...I took a-lot of nice deer down there..

Mac

[Redhawk1]

You guys don't know what "regulation" is.  Come to Illinois.  We even have a waiting period for a flintlock rifle kit.  (I feel so much safer now.)

We can; however, use certain handguns (determined by which handgun cartridge they shoot) for deer hunting now, which is a relatively recent (and positive) development. 

You are right, I would not want any more "regulation". That was the purpose of my postings. We all need to be careful for what we ask for.

And as for you other post, I am involved in many aspects or gun right and regulations. I get involved at the legislative level as often as I can. I am involved in local pro-gun organizations, I am a life member of the Dalmarva Sports Association, I am a Master hunter in the Delaware Master Hunter program, I support QDMA and am a member of QDMA, I am currently applying for the hunters education program as an instructor. I am an Endowment member of the NRA. So I don't just talk the talk, I also donate a lot of my personal time to gun issues as well as hunting issues here in Delaware.

But we all know 10 guys can preach how good hunting is and how it benefits our animal heard's and how we support gun right, but that all can be wiped out by just one guy that is a hunter that speaks out about hunting or gun issues in a negative manner.  The press will jump all over the story the hunter has to tell, that does not go along with his fellow hunter and gun owners.

Zumbo is a perfect example of this, he has made such a big steer in the hunting and gun world.  (ONLY ONE GUY) Yes he is a renowned gun writer, which made it worse. But it all adds up.

[Lawful Larry]

Let me say my last words on this subject.  I am an American citizen, retired Air force (26 years), retired Law Officer (14)and state certified Firearms Instructor, hunter, and Cowboy Action shooter.  I have been shooting for 53 years and have enjoyed every minute.  

Now as to the 50 BMG, is it somewhat stupid hunting with one of these monster sized rifles?  Of course I can't even see myself trying to hump one of them through the woods on a hunt.  Is it practical to hunt anything short of a dinosaur with it?  NO!  Would I want to ban it.  DEFINITELY NOT!!!  I am a realist.  

The second amendment has nothing to with hunting or target shooting!  Maybe these so called hunters and target shooters will someday get this message.  The 2nd amend. was to stop the likes of Kennedy, Schumer, Boxer, Rodham Rodham and all the other anti's from doing just what they are trying to do to us now.  

Every time one of these idiot anti's makes the statement: "Only law enforcement and the military should have these weapons."  I get a cold shiver down my spine.  I don't know about you, but I don't want to be anything but a citizen.  Under their scenario, we would end up living in a police state as subjects.  And this is coming from a cop!!!  

I rest my case.          

[NONYA]

If they could keep them from firing a 50 bmg within 100 yards of any roadway it would put an end to this groups hunting method,i seriously doubt they are going to haul thier shooting bench and 30 lb rifle 100 yards in any direction.Thats all it would take to stop the law abiding and as far as i know these guys are all law abiding people.The reason i added your post to my thread Redhawk was because i was quoted as saying"the 50bmg has no place in the hunting world" about 50 times during my inquisition and I didnt hear you mentioning you felt the same way 1 time,you just kept stirring the pot and letting your "lenny" (mice and men) berate me with that slogan.Anywho Im happy to see a kinder,gentler GBO world where we can share our side without being offensive.Nascars on Gotta-Go!

[Redhawk1]

NONYA, a real nice post you have in your area. The REAL World...According to Nonya. I like the way you use censorship to the max. You post trash and them lock the thread so no one can comment. Now who is being childish.  A PICTURE OF HYPOCRICY is your topic.  Very grown up. You posted how you like to have mature conversations and then you post trash again. Exactly who is the HYPOCRICY? 

[Redhawk1]

If they could keep them from firing a 50 bmg within 100 yards of any roadway it would put an end to this groups hunting method,i seriously doubt they are going to haul thier shooting bench and 30 lb rifle 100 yards in any direction.Thats all it would take to stop the law abiding and as far as i know these guys are all law abiding people.The reason i added your post to my thread Redhawk was because i was quoted as saying"the 50bmg has no place in the hunting world" about 50 times during my inquisition and I didnt hear you mentioning you felt the same way 1 time,you just kept stirring the pot and letting your "lenny" (mice and men) berate me with that slogan.Anywho Im happy to see a kinder,gentler GBO world where we can share our side without being offensive.Nascars on Gotta-Go!

I also never stated I supported banning it either, you left that part out. I don't agree with everything used for hunting and I don't use a lot of things in my hunting. But that does not mean I have to bad mouth others choices and try to support getting them removed from hunting. Big difference.

[NONYA]

So you state it has no place in hunting but you dont support having it restricted from hunting,is that about it?I guess my convictions are stronger than some.All i did was post a screeenshot of a post you made,whats the big deal,you cut and paste my prior posts all over hell calling me a hypocrit but Im not allowed?Thats hypocricy.

[NONYA]

Your repore towards me has been anything but "grown up" since you restrted this argument in several different threads long after it was over,i will respond with the same level of maturity as i get,in your case I believe i havnt come close to level you have sunk to.As far as censorship and locking threads,you felt the need to make a final post and lock the original thread before i could respond and you also stated this

"Well from all the post's here, I don't think anyone is going to budge on there stance. I don't think I could add anything further to this thread without repeating myself again and again. I don't see a point of discussing this any further. "Redhawk

Yet you felt the need to bring up the issue and my name in 5 threads several weeks after you locked the thread,Thats hypocricy!