Author Topic: Opinions on caliber...  (Read 1791 times)

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Offline Buckfever

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Opinions on caliber...
« on: October 01, 2006, 04:40:39 PM »
I have been toying with the idea of trading a never been shot Tikka Whitetail Hunter in a .308 for either a .25-06 or a .280 for a prairie deer gun.  Then a friend said why don't you get a 7 mag. and reload it a little slower for accuracy.  Hadn't thought about that approach?  Does this have any merit?  I want something that will shoot out to 300yds and maybe a bit more but doesn't kick the devil out of me for practice.  If I don't practice through out next year I am sure I won't develop the skill to properly take advantage of the greater range.  I have some arthritis and don't want to have a headache after every trip to the gun range.
Thoughts????    Buckfever

Offline nasem

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Re: Opinions on caliber...
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2006, 05:36:38 PM »
hmm.... arthritis huh ? then you defenetly wanna stay away from the 7mm mag / 308 / 280 family.  they all recoil similar to the 30-06 and Im not saying an '06 recoils a whole lot, but for long days of 40-60 rounds per day of shooting, might hurt your shoulder.

Seriously, I been toying around the idea of a "low" recoil caliber that will be good for deer out to 300+ yards and I decided on the 6.5X55 swedish.  Planning on getting one of them Tikka stainless light, they look nice, weight about 6.5 lbs, and the recoil of that caliber is about 12 lbs (compared to about 20-22 lbs from a 30-06).

I underestand that you might be tempted to get a 7mm mag and "down" grade your loads but turst me, that always doesn't work out too well becuase:
1) we are men and ALWAYS like to push our limits and see "how much higher we can go" meaning, if you download today, tomorrow you'll start loading up higher and higher until you eventually reach close to maximum loads with that 7 mag lol.
2) if you ALWAYS download your 7mm, whats the point of getting it ? just get a smaller caliber in the 7mm family and get it over with.  Honestly a 6.5 swedish will do everything a 7mm mag can up to 300 yards for white tail deer.

Offline Brithunter

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Re: Opinions on caliber...
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2006, 11:42:01 PM »
Well there is some sense in the previous answer. But if you want a downloaded 7mm mag then get a normal 7mm Mauser (7x57). Some folks like the slightly larger diameter bullet  ;) However the 6.5x55 is one heck of a cartirdge. I have and use both and funnily enough was testing some Rem 175 grain bullets in some handloads yesterday at the range.

Offline Redhawk1

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Re: Opinions on caliber...
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2006, 12:38:51 AM »
I don't see a thing wrong with the 308 for shooting in the prairie. 300 yards is not a problem with the 308 Win. I don't think you would gain anything with a 25-06 or 280. Unless you just want a new round, stick with the 308. JMHO ;D
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Offline victorcharlie

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Re: Opinions on caliber...
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2006, 01:30:56 AM »
I don't see a thing wrong with the 308 for shooting in the prairie. 300 yards is not a problem with the 308 Win. I don't think you would gain anything with a 25-06 or 280. Unless you just want a new round, stick with the 308. JMHO ;D

Yep....no reason the .308 won't do the job.....
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Offline Val

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Re: Opinions on caliber...
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2006, 02:11:09 AM »
A 25-06 is indeed, a low recoiling flat shooting caliber that would be an excellent choice for what you described. Trying to download a larger caliber may not result in the accuracy you need at the longer ranges.
Hunting and fishing are not matters of life or death. They are much more important than that.

Offline Zachary

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Re: Opinions on caliber...
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2006, 02:31:30 AM »
A "never-been-fired Tikka WH?"  Heck, that is a RARE comodity these days.  KEEP THE TIKKA and just BUY A SECOND GUN!

Out of the .280 and .25-06, I would pick the .25-06 as it is a better prarie-dog choice than the .280, yet the .25-06 is still an excellent round for whitetail deer as well.

Zachary

Offline beemanbeme

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Re: Opinions on caliber...
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2006, 03:22:25 AM »
A 7-08 or a .260 would answer your needs nicely.  Load either one with a good 140gr bullet @ 2800fps and you've got a light recoiling deer rifle.
You could actually have the .308 rebarreled to either of these cartridges with very little work.

Offline The Sodbuster

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Re: Opinions on caliber...
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2006, 03:32:11 AM »
I concur with others that the .308 Win will get the job done on deer at 300 yards.  I also recommend not selling the never-fired Tikka WH.  They're not making them anymore and .308 is a great caliber. 

If you must have a flatter shooting, lighter recoiling round for open country, .25-06 Rem is a good choice, as is .260 Rem 7mm-08, and 6.5X55.  They recoil less than the .308 Win, but it's not that big of a difference; maybe 3-5 ft-lbs. 

Offline wncchester

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Re: Opinions on caliber... and an unfired Tikka!
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2006, 03:33:52 AM »
Your rifle is a jewel, why not load some rounds and try it before you do anything else?

Ballistically, a (very) slightly down loaded 7mm Mag IS a .280!  The .280 has a better case (non-belted) and it's  easy to make from .30-06 if you have trouble finding brass.  An excellant round for deer within 350 yds.

On paper, the .25-06 is a great round and it really does good in the field from the reports of a friend of mine.  But, it can be a tempermental cartridge to load accurately.

The .308 gets little recognition from the "whizz-bang" gun press today.  That shouldn't be, it is an excellant and accurate game cartridge with moderate recoil.  Load up some lighter premium slugs, such as the Barnes 130 gr. "TSX" or "XBT" or the Lost River "J36" 140 gr from MidSouth Shooter's Supply and see how they do before you commit to any rifle swapping you may regret later.  I think you might like the reduced recoil, good trajectory and great performance with a slightly ligher bullet in your .308 Tikka.

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Offline Don Fischer

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Re: Opinions on caliber...
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2006, 03:45:26 AM »
If your gonna get rid of the 308, I'd go with the 6.5x55 or 7x57. I've used both a good deal and both can be good 300yd cartridges or you can step up in bullets and have a good closer range cartridge. I ran my 6.5x55 the other day and heres what I got.

140gr Hornady @ 2700fps (mine is a bit faster than that but not a lot)
vital zone                          8"
Max P.B. range                  296yds
Max P.B. zero                    252yds

                                 Flight path and remaining velocity

100yd                          +3.5"        2509fps
200yd                          +2.8"        2326fps
300yd                          -4"            2150fps       1435ft lbs e remaining

Pretty much the same case could be made for the 7-08 and 7x57 also. The 308 will probally also work well. Probally the best advice is to go out and shoot the 308 you have with some 150gr bullets and find out where you really are!
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Offline RaySendero

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Re: Opinions on caliber...
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2006, 04:05:23 AM »
I have been toying with the idea of trading a never been shot Tikka Whitetail Hunter in a .308 for either a .25-06 or a .280 for a prairie deer gun.  Then a friend said why don't you get a 7 mag. and reload it a little slower for accuracy.  Hadn't thought about that approach?  Does this have any merit?  I want something that will shoot out to 300yds and maybe a bit more but doesn't kick the devil out of me for practice.  If I don't practice through out next year I am sure I won't develop the skill to properly take advantage of the greater range.  I have some arthritis and don't want to have a headache after every trip to the gun range.
Thoughts????    Buckfever

My personal choice for a "prairie deer gun" would be a 270.  However, given your current rifle and recoil constraints I'd reiterate the others on keeping the 308!  If prairie dogs are also part of the equation - I also like the idea of getting a second rifle just for them.
    Ray

Offline Questor

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Re: Opinions on caliber...
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2006, 04:27:09 AM »
I got a .270 for that purpose, and it's almost identical to the .280. I have found that loading the ammo to starting loads of 4831SC as according to the Nosler manual, I got noticeably less recoil with the same accuracy as the full power version which has only about 200fps more velocity.

My criteria for a gun were the same as yours: reasonable recoil, 300 yard shooting without hold-over, and primary use on the prairies.

The 25-06 also was a candidate, but I had my heart set on a CZ rifle and they didn't make 25-06. Bullet selection for the 280 seems better than for 270 because of the availability of heavier bullets.

I looked at the 7mm Remington Magnum and it really didn't give me any more than the 270/280 for my purposes. Maybe if I were going to try to extend my range beyond 300 yards, I'd be more interested in it, but I don't have a place to practice at distances that long.

I tried prairie dog shooting with the 270 using 110 grain varmint bullets and the results were impressive. Those heavier bullets are much more wind resistant than .223, and my loads were only 3000fps for the varmint bullets, not the usual 3500fps that other varmint shooters use.
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Offline LEO

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Re: Opinions on caliber...
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2006, 05:50:54 AM »
As far as down loading the 7mm mag, I realize every rifle is different but my 700 Remington in 7mm mag gives its best accuracy at near maximum loads so don't count on "downloading for accuracy" of course the rifle you get may be different.  Also a bullet that weighs "X" grains fired at "X" velocity out of a rifle that weighs the same is going to have basically  the same recoil irregardless of caliber/cartridge, this is simple physics.  The 308 is a fine deer round and if  you are up to 300 yard shots then the 308 certainly is. If you opt for a lighter bullet for the 308 be sure an purchase one that is designed for deer sized game and not a varmint bullet.  The varmint bullets may not have sufficent penetration for deer to being designed for rapid/violent expansion on varmint size animals. Of course if the real issue is your arthritis and the recoil generated by the rifle, that is a whole different story.  The answer to that I would think would be a premium recoil pad such as a sims or R3 and adding weight to the rifle and possibly some type of muzzle brake (i hate em but they do reduce recoil at the cost of increased blast).  If you just want a different rifle, I would look at a Remington/Savage/Ruger which ever suits you best, heavy barrel in 25-06, it is a superb plains cartridge,  the heavy barreled rifles would reduce the recoil and the added weight makes the rifle a little easier to shoot at long range especially if off of a rest, bags, or bipod.   It sounds like though based on your comments about practice that you are willing to do what is needed to insure that you are up to making the shot.  It would be great if more hunters who want to shoot at longer ranges would show this dedication.

Offline poncaguy

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Re: Opinions on caliber...
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2006, 08:52:39 AM »
260 Remington or 25-06.................. ;D

Offline Wyo. Coyote Hunter

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Re: Opinions on caliber...
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2006, 09:18:40 AM »
 :) I guess I will have to buck the votes for the .25-06 as a long rg. deer gun. Prairie deer can be pretty hefty animals and shot at long distance, the little .25's don't have enough bullet wt. for me. They are very easy to hit with, but  I am not convinced they are the ticket for deer. Just yesterday I shot a very big mulie at about 75 yards. He ran another 75 before falling. When I got to him he was still breathing, but it was his last. I didn't like to see that. :-[ What disturbed me was he was on the edge of a heavy pine forest. I went right to his tracks and could find where he was standing when shot, but there was little if any blood, and there was NO blood trail to follow to find him.  The bullet did shoot through, but in some kinds of terrain, tracking can be very difficult. I suppose we have used the various .25's on 50 or more head of big game. For antelope and small deer at close range, they have lots of shock, but as the little pills loose speed, they also loose power and shock. I would much rather see you go with a bigger bullet 7mm or .30. I have looked at expanded bullets from my 24's and 25's and they are not much bigger expanded than a .30 before it is fired. Maybe I am getting old, but I HATE to see any animal suffer needlessly. The longer I hunt the more I feel we should be shooting the biggest gun we can use accurately. Quick, painless kills are what we should all be striving for. :)

Offline prairiedog555

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Re: Opinions on caliber...
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2006, 10:28:07 AM »

I used to be the same way, looking for something better than what I have, (.308) and then a friend pointed out to me: as long as shots under 300yd and deer sized animal, what is wrong with the .308
Military, police swat, long distance accuracy shooters all use .308.  Low recoil, cheap to load.
Although it is nice to get more "stuff" keep the economy moving.

Offline Davy Crockett

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Re: Opinions on caliber...
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2006, 11:40:58 AM »
I like the 280, but it kicks about like an 06, of course it depends on the rifle and shooter since recoil is so subjective. Someone mentioned the 7-08. I would suggest a 7-08 and also get yourself a Caldwell lead sled for the range and you'll be able to shoot just about any caliber all day without taking a beating.l

Offline Eagle Eye

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Re: Opinions on caliber...
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2006, 12:50:54 PM »
I read the comments from everyone on this thread and felt compelled to respond.  Like the originating poster, I too have serious arthritis problems and have had two surgeries to help fix the damage to my shoulder and back.    Recoil is a serious problem for an arthritis sufferer! 

Buckfever, I can totally relate to concerns about recoil from a .308.   I have owned/reloaded and shot just about every caliber out there from 300 Weatherby Mag on down to .223 over the past 35 years so I have a pretty good understanding of the different levels of recoil.   I spend a lot of time shooting from a bench at the range so recoil is a big issue.  At one time (when I was much younger), the 308 and 30-06 were my favorite deer calibers, but not any more. 

When looking for a milder recoiling caliber some years ago, I tried all the legal deer rounds in calibers from 243 to 7-08.   I settled on the 25-06.  It smacks deer with great authority and I have never had one walk away from it (I always use premium bullets).  The recoil is very light (about 10 lbs using 100 grain bullets doing 3100-3200 fps) and is extremely accurate.  I now have owned numerous models in 25-06 and every one has been a less than 1 MOA shooter with some load development using Nosler Partitions.  My longest shot at big game on the prairies was a measured 320 yards....a speed goat....dead.  My longest shot at a coyote was an unmentionable distance!  Also dead.  I once put a 100 grain Nosler Partition bullet end to end through a mule deer at aprox 200 yards across a ravine as it walked towards me.....so please don't think for a minute that the 25-06 isn't a great deer round and very accurate.  Many use them for elk as well but I haven't.

I also have a liking for the 308 and have had many rifles in that caliber.  It definately has considerably more recoil than the 25-06 and to me, it is a sharper or perhaps faster felt recoil, likely from the faster powder burn rate or the fact that I tended to prefer it in shorter 20" barrels.  I imagine that this comment with result in some nasty responses from 308 lovers but I find the 308 does not zap 'em dead the way a 25-06 does.  Agree or not, that has been my experience.  Recoil is not an issue when actually hunting, heck, I don't even hear the shot let alone feel the recoil.  But on the bench, it is a factor. 

So, the 25-06 gets my vote for your situation without any hesitation.  I also suggest you consider the new Remington rifles with the Limbsaver R-3 recoil pad....it definately works!  I just bought a new 25-06 in the Remington 700 CDL version with a 24" barrel and it is one very sweet rig.  Unlike many "Remington haters" I read comments from now and then here and on other forums, I have never been let down by a Remington rifle and every one of them has been an excellent shooter (with load development).  And yes, I have owned Tikka, Sako, Winchester, Ruger and Weatherby rifles so I have tried many different makes. 

Good luck with your situation and I hope my post helps you. 

Offline Buckfever

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Re: Opinions on caliber... Mr. Eagle Eye
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2006, 02:12:03 PM »
Did the trigger on the Remington CDL 25-06 come or adjust to a crisp 3lbs. or there about?  I have been thinking about that rifle.  I have had numerous rifles in various makes and some of the 10 year old Remingtons I have and had are very accurate.  Also like the 24" barrel.  Anymore thoughts on that model would be just great.  Thanks  Buckfever

Offline Eagle Eye

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Re: Opinions on caliber...
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2006, 02:59:39 PM »
No, all Remington regular triggers (except the XR-100 for example) have "lawyer" triggers.  Heavy is the best way to describe them.  BUT, it is an easy remedy if you are handy or simply take the rifle to a gunsmith.  I get mine set to 3.5# for hunting in our cold Alberta weather with gloves on and they break clean without creap or overtravel.  For a 25-06, the 24" barrel is ideal and that was one of the attractions the new model CDL offerred.  It has the trimmer stock profile of a mountain rifle and a nice matte metal finish (that closly matches the Leupold scope matte finish).  The wood on the stock is nice on mine as well.    I mounted a Leupold 6x42mm fixed FX-III with the wide duplex on mine and it is a nice rig.  Very bright clear and very sharp image.  I used to use vairables but I prefer the simplicity and constant sight picture that a fixed provides.  Furthermore, 6x is all one needs for any reasonable hunting distance.  Works for me.   

Offline longwinters

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Re: Opinions on caliber...
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2006, 03:11:44 PM »
Well, I have at the moment a 7m-08 Rem CDL, a Sako in 308 and another in 280.  I also reload and shoot for a Sako 270 and another in 30-06.  I can't say I have any more experience than any of these fine gentlemen that have already given you excellent responses.  But having sold 7m-08's twice I just picked up this Rem CDL . . . because for a low recoiling rifle with plent of zip I just don't think you can beat it.  As it gets more popular there is more ammo available and for a rifle to shoot a 120 - 140 gn bullet it is a kitten in the recoil dept. 

The 308 does have significantly more recoil, but with a Sims recoil pad (or something similar) and it WILL take away much felt recoil.  It might be worth checking it out.

Long
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Offline Buckfever

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Re: Opinions on caliber... ammunition 25-06
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2006, 04:58:37 PM »
What do you use for those huge whitetails up there?  I have hunted Saskatchewan and someday thought I would try Alberta.  I heard it is different than the heavy woods of Spiritwood Saskatchewan.  Thanks for the information and I also see a lot of folks going to a fixed 6 power for longer range set ups.   Thanks again,
Buckfever

Offline Buckfever

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Re: Opinions on caliber...Mr. Longwinters
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2006, 05:03:14 PM »
I also have a 6.5x55 but would like a little more range on some areas I hunt.  Although it is the perfect carry gun for walk and stand.  How far are you comfortable shooting the 7mm-08?  Just a great caliber!  If I had one of those I might not be looking for anything else. Thanks  for the information.  Buckfever

Offline Eagle Eye

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Re: Opinions on caliber... ammunition 25-06
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2006, 06:05:30 PM »
What do you use for those huge whitetails up there?  I have hunted Saskatchewan and someday thought I would try Alberta.  I heard it is different than the heavy woods of Spiritwood Saskatchewan.  Thanks for the information and I also see a lot of folks going to a fixed 6 power for longer range set ups.   Thanks again,
Buckfever

A Partition in the lungs works no matter how big they are.  Last year's was a 5x4 buck weighing 215#.  Dropped like a rock.  Alberta is a great place to hunt but the province isn't crawling with deer like mnay US states are. 

Offline Don Dick

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Re: Opinions on caliber...
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2006, 03:16:40 AM »
I think there is merit to considering the 25/06.  Reduced recoil and it can do both.  If recoil is not a factor and you hand load the 308 can do it also.   I just purchased a 25/06 so I am prejudice.   However, I keep my 308 too.

Watch that redhawk1 guy he will have you using a 458 for varmints if he gets a chance.
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Offline kyote

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Re: Opinions on caliber...
« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2006, 10:29:57 AM »
I have been toying with the idea of trading a never been shot Tikka Whitetail Hunter in a .308 for either a .25-06 or a .280 for a prairie deer gun. Then a friend said why don't you get a 7 mag. and reload it a little slower for accuracy. Hadn't thought about that approach? Does this have any merit? I want something that will shoot out to 300yds and maybe a bit more but doesn't kick the devil out of me for practice. If I don't practice through out next year I am sure I won't develop the skill to properly take advantage of the greater range. I have some arthritis and don't want to have a headache after every trip to the gun range.
Thoughts???? Buckfever

Heck, you have the correct rifle..and why down load the mag when you can do the same for the .308,they make great 110 grain bullets that have almost no recoil in the .308 then there is the 125 grain ,.308 bullets..great for getting familar with your rifle.and when you head after the big bucks at 300 yards and encounter a big bear are tryonasewr you can have the bottom of the mag loaded with some heavy weights like some 180 grains to take them down if need be.But if yer hankerin for another caliber.well,there are many to choose from.
my huntin rifle is safe from confiscation only while my battle rifle protects it.

Offline Slamfire

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Re: Opinions on caliber...
« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2006, 05:30:48 PM »
There are two factors in recoil, velocity and bullet weight. Reducing either will lessen the recoil, but you may not be able to notice the difference.
One thing I don't understand is the use of 140 grain 6.5mm bullets on just plain deer. Nosler's 125 Partition is available in factory ammo, and Remington loads 120s, both as capable on deer as the 140 in a 7mm.
As for loadin' down a 7mm Remington Magnum, what's the point with .280 available. Another thing is light loads of slow burnin' powders has caused good rifles to disentegrate. The only time it was observed in a lab, they reckon the bullet lodged in the throat, before the pressure peak of the gas expansion. We've all been told obstructions in the bore are a sure fire recipe for disaster.
Bold talk from a one eyed fat man.

Offline jro45

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Re: Opinions on caliber...
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2006, 04:44:09 AM »
With my 7Mag it puts 6 bullets [ 150gr ] into a 3/4" hole at 200 yds traveling about 3050 FPS.
The recoil isn't bad to me.
Your 308 could probable do this also with the right bullet and right powder down loaded.
Good shooting to ya

Offline Gregory

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Re: Opinions on caliber...
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2006, 10:23:48 AM »
I have some arthritis and don't want to have a headache after every trip to the gun range.
Thoughts????    Buckfever

Why don't you try these in your .308?
http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/centerfire/managed-Recoil.asp
Greg

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