Dogs

[nealglen37]

Ok hope this doesn't offened anyone but here it goes...............I think we should discuss proper caliber for dogs...........to many irisponsable dogs let their dogs run free to kill deer run cattle (they lose weight or might get hurt) .............its my opinion............if a dog does not have a collar......you don't know who it belongs to.............or it won't come when you try to call it.................then you should consider it an over grown coyote.........and put it under. How amk I going off on this rant.........just the other day I was out hicking around a local resivior..........and rounded a corner and saw three large dogs who were hunting...............you could tell they were hunting...............luckily they didn't see me so I eased back the way i had come................dog owners should take care of their pets................or I will.

Thanks for letting me rant

[Coyote Hunter]

Grew up on a farm back in central Iowa and we shot strays as a matter of course.  A dog that chased livestock was a dead dog.  Then there were the dogs we quarantined to see if they had rabies.  Had a couple positives - but the outcome was always the same regardless - dead dog.

Now I live in a subdivision of 5 acre lots.  Have taken neighbor's dogs to the pound and trained them with a BB gun but haven't put any down.  When the girls were young I did take them to the bus stop a couple times with a pistol in hand and every intent of putting down a certain vicious dog if it came around (it had been chasing the girls).

It is not unusual for me to take a walk and carry a "walking stick".  Some folks around here don't pay a lick of attention to their dogs and my wife and I have been confronted on more than one occasion.

As a rule I like dogs, but I won't give 2 cents for wild or ill-mannered ones.

[jrhen]

I grew up in SE Colo early 70's, just far enough from Lamar that weekly we would hear a car slow down, a door slam and a car tearing out... A lot of nice dogs got dropped off 15 miles from town at the nice farmers house who needed another dog.   All I know was some dogs were there when we got home from school and some weren't. If we were going into town they got dropped at the pound.  As I go older more than once I got to escort the dog down to the dead pit with a 22LR...I didn't feel good about doing it then and I still don't.  It was a chore that needed to be done.  

Feral dogs, I had no problem hunting them down.  Dad had a Winchester in 270 (that I wish was still in the family) which did a good job on the dogs.

We had two pit bulls get into our back yard two years ago.  They going after the "wifes" old cat.  She (5'4") disposed of one with her Colt 1911 and the other one went and quivered in the corner until animal control got there.  The police had a lot to say to the wife discharging a firearm in city limits  :wink:  but nothing came of it.  This wasn't the first time they had a complaint about these dogs.  The owner of the dog did a lot of mouthing off while the officer was there but never came by the house again.  :-)  Seems he wasn't so bold with out his dog or a police officer nearby.  The best part of this story is his landlord evicited him because of the dogs.  Seems you can write a lease that covers these things.

[azshooter]

Many years ago I went calling coyotes on on the Indian Reservation with a friend who had permits, license etc.  We are wearing head to toe camo and hard as heck to see.  The first call - in came a dog.  Oh great - we packed up the gear and left to another location miles away.  Set up the 2nd call and sure enough in comes another dog to the call.  We pack up again and he drives to a very remote area, only one dirt road in and it is all overgrown - no traffic had been on it in weeks if not months.  He starts a call and in comes yet another dog.  I look at my buddy 50 feet away and know what he is going to do.  Sure enough he shoots the dog - probably 100+ yards away.    We begin to pack our gear and we notice coming over the crest of the hill where the dog's body is comes an Indian on foot calling his dog.  It seems he was on foot tending a flock of sheep just on the other side of a small valley.  On top of that he is carrying what looks to be a 30-30.  We both dropped to the ground and started crawling.  I made it over the hill behind me and ran like heck( I was probably 15-16 yrs old).  Needless to say - I learned a lesson that day will never shoot a presumed stray dog.

[Qaz]

I have used 17HMR and 22lr. Dogs aren't hard to kill, but does it need to be killed is the question. Just because a dog is running around in a neighborhood does not mean it is a stray or should be shot. Retraining with a BB or pellet gun will usually work. If you shoot my dog because he got loose and ran off without my knowledge and was harming no one, you will regret that decision for a long time!
 It is always best to just call the authorities for the removal of the animal.  You may be shooting a childs beloved pet by mistake.
 Azshooter- I preditor hunt and it is easy to call in a domestic dog with a rabbit in distress call. You are lucky that guy didn't shoot you two and bury you. What you did was irresponsible and then crawled off like the snake that you were.

[azshooter]

... Azshooter- I preditor hunt and it is easy to call in a domestic dog with a rabbit in distress call. You are lucky that guy didn't shoot you two and bury you. What you did was irresponsible and then crawled off like the snake that you were.

I will recap - I did not shoot the dog- my hunting "buddy" at the time (Who was a grown adult- again I was 15-16) did all the shooting.  Seeing that we were both armed and so was the other guy there was no way I was sticking around waiting for bullets to start flying.  I am not one to stand there as a bystander and get shot at because a jackass does something wrong.  I can tell this story with a clear conscience - I was simply there at the time.  I left a bad situation to preserve my life.  It was a situation I did not create or have anything to do with.  One that could have got me shot at for just being there.  I never hunted with the guy again but do remember reading in the paper a few years later when he got caught poaching an Elk.  

In addition to the lesson of picking a good hunting partner, in the context of this thread, the lesson learned is that people have no business shooting any domestic dog that is not a threat to you or your property.

[ms]

My self I won't shoot a dog unless it comes after me. :?

[anweis]

the lesson learned is that people have no business shooting any domestic dog that is not a threat to you or your property.

I was on both sides. My 5 year old daughter was attacked by a pitbull, or some such breed, in the park. The dog had its jaws locked on the girls'  leg, there was bleeding and screaming. It all happened in a second or two. I took out my knife and stabbed the dog at the base of the skull. The very next thing some guy shows up and he says why i killed his dog and acts aggressive. I was very lucky, because i was in "killing mode" and could have easily hurt him, but a cop was already there.  

My  Jack Russel terrier got scared out of her mind by lightning, found a way to get out of the yard, got hit by a car and had a leg broken, and, in shock, she started running over the fields. Some idiot shot her with no 5 or 6 shot. The dog had a collar and tag. I searched for her for 27 hours straight without even stopping to drink water. I found her 9 miles from home at the base of a  tree in a forest. She survived. She is 14 years old now, and we are going camping in the mountains in Colorado this week.

Just call animal services and have the dog taken to the pound.

[james]

I once ran off some dogs harassing my daughters 4H sheep.  Since the dogs had collars I figured they were some ones pets.   They came back that night and killed the sheep. Then Mr or Ms Someone's dogs died of lead poisoning.  I'm not mad at the people who let their pets run loose.  I'm mad at myself for not killing them before they killed my daughter's sheep.

[conrad101st]

We have a small farm in south central Oklahoma and we spend considerable time and cash putting in food plots, plus religously obey the game laws b/c we like bigger bucks.  There are these jerks that like to run hog dogs and the dogs go where the pigs are regardless of fences or boundaries and subsequently, the dog handler follows the dog.  We have posted the property that we kill all hog dogs on sight.  What else can you do if some idiot is running your game and non-game animals.  The sheriff is not going to lift a finger to help run the jerks off.  Only solution is to make their experience painful.  I hear that people in the "Deep South" run the deer.  Either way, dogs and stand hunting don't mix.  If they want to run for miles, perhaps they should buy miles of land to hunt instead of using the dog as a ticket to tresspass.

However, we never shoot strays or the neighbor's dogs who are just passing through.  Only the one's pretending to be wolves.

[nealglen37]

Good posts guys........................I'm finally seeing some passion about something.

[Gregory]

Back when I lived in upstate NY I had a problem with the neighbors two dogs, they would run over onto my yard and knock my kid down (he was maybe 4 yrs old at the time).  Dogs would come off their porch and come after me snarling as I got my mail, I would start toward them with a rolled up paper and they'd back off.  Any way, I asked the neighbor (politely) to keep his dogs tied up (there was a leach law in effect).  Neighbor tells me in no uncertain terms he's lived there longer than I have and won't tie up his dogs.
Next time I have a problem I call animal control.  They come and start to pick up dogs but neighbor talks them out of it and they release dogs.  Then dogs nip a jogger, I can't get him to file a complaint.  Next time dog is in my backyard I come out of house and he's growling at me.  I retrieve 22LR and shoot dog.  Dog runs home, survives, neighbors move two months later.  End of problem.

Only other dog I shot was one running a deer on my friends private property.

[Coyote Hunter]

... Needless to say - I learned a lesson that day will never shoot a presumed stray dog.

They are not "presumed" to be stray when they are on your land.  

Unfortunately the dog you mention was not on your land, it was on its owner's land (the reservation).

In Douglas County, CO, they must be on a leash or under voice control.  If they block your path they are considered "agressive" and can be treated accordingly.  Last fall I got bitten while out on my elk trip.  It was a very good thing for the dog I didn't have my 1911 handy.

[Qaz]

Conrad101st- The problem with hounds are that they are always so busy snffing and following a track, that they never learned to read posted signs! In VA, you may follow your dogs on to posted property only to retreive them, but may not take firearms with you. Usually a hound will only run the game that they are hunting, in this case a hog.
 Thats a hard one, I would not want to be the one to shoot a mans hounds. Maybe you need to put up a different kind of fence.

[Savage .250]

Over the years i`ve seen dogs (singles and packs ) running in the woods
   and thought, here i pay good money to hunt and these dogs are running
   around screwing things up. Pulled the gun up a few times but as i`m a
  dog owner  i just could not take that next step........pull the trigger.
   I believe the only way i could "fire away" is if i saw dogs tearing up a
    live deer or some other helpless animal.  
   Like a lot of guys have stated, these dogs belong to somebody so if you
    let them run wild......... be ready to suffer the consequences.

[msorenso]

Are they causing and real problems for you ??  Otherwise mind your own like they are too you.. Of cousre they are not going to come to you when you call,  you are a stranger.. And yes they hunt, they must eat some way.  If they are on the loose and are not bothering you who the hell are you to just shoot them because you feel like it.  I hunt to eat the game I shoot not just to kill for the hell of it.  :twisted:

[Chuck White]

Here in NY, you can legally shoot a dog if it is threatening a person or livestock!  That is even if you are not related to the person or if the livestock isn't even yours!

You can't legally shoot a dog that is chasing deer!
You must report it to law enforcement or a dog warden!

Many people in the area would not hesitate to shoot a dog that is in the woods or otherwise chasing deer!  This includes myself, depending on what the dog is doing and where it is and sometimes we know who owns it!

Most times, in this area if we see a dog out in the woods, we are good enough to let the owners know that their dog was seen chasing deer etc. and the first thing out of their mouth is MY DOG NEVER LEAVES THE YARD!  That is their only warning!

[nealglen37]

question for the hound hunters....................what would you do if an unknown dog came on your property and started barking at your dogs or using the restroom on your lawn? would you ?

A. Would you say nice dogie, give it a treat, and try to find the owner
B. Turn your own dogs loose on him
c. Shoot him

  when hound hunters say a dog can't read sighns it usually means leave "my dog alone".................shoot the rest..........just think of the farmers land as a huge backyard and your dogs in it. Dogs can't read a posted sigh..............but dog owners can

  I wish a farmer would leave a post and tell just how much weight dogs can run off a heard of steers........thats money out of the guys pocket.............think of someone stealing gas out of your truck...............its no wonder a lot of farmers don't let people hunt on their land...........no respect..............9 times out of 10 a farmer would let you get your dog...................if you have told the man you might cross his land..............but that would take to much trouble I guess.

  I have realives that have hunted hounds all their life..........but that was when you knew who your neighbors were and their dogs........people trusted each other. We would also shoot a dog of ours if he made an agressive moove twards anyone. Comes down to the simple fact that poeople can't or won't control their dogs........or themselves.........or their kids...............no resposability for anything.

WOW...............that felt good to vent..........................hope i didn't go off to hard........................but that was fun

[corbanzo]

I happen to like dogs a lot, but they are still an animal, no matter how you look at it.  Our neighbors dog comes over all the time, and we give him treats (we actually bought them for him, not owning our own dog) he is a good dog.  But there are many instances where this is not true.

In any case where I, my family, friends, other humans, my property - living or inanimate, are being harrased by an animal, no matter the number of legs, that animal will be defended against.  If it so happens that my voice and size don't work, then I know my firearms will.  Especially if the animal becomes a nuisance.

Dogs, as pets are loved very much, and also as pets they should be trained.  I am in full agreement nealglen that any wild dog is an overgrown coyote.  Just because they do not have the intelligence of humans is no excuse for them to not be able to be trained to behave within reason.  Actually, dogs are much more easily trained than us humans are!!  It is the responsibility of the ower to take care of this, or someone else will, as is life.

[nealglen37]

Good point........your right.....dogs are not overgrown coyotes...............I misspoke on that..............actually when it comes down to it I would hate to shoot a dog...................the dog did not choose his owner.........just like a kid can't choose his parents or the family he is born into.

[jim21]

One of our local DNR Wardens,said to me,if I'm hunting and see a dog in
the woods,it mostly has already did some game hunting.He said go ahead
and shoot it,because it takes too long for us game wardens to  come on
the scene and we mostly would destoy it to,unless we know whos dog it is.   Here doggie,doggy,come here.

[Coyote Hunter]

question for the hound hunters....................what would you do if an unknown dog came on your property and started barking at your dogs or using the restroom on your lawn? would you ?

A. Would you say nice dogie, give it a treat, and try to find the owner
B. Turn your own dogs loose on him
c. Shoot him

 

When the neighbor's two dogs corralled our cats under our deck, I shot them.  With a BB gun, but shot nevertheless.  10 pumps on a Daisy 880.  Each.

'Nice dogie', my a$$.

Another time my youngest daughter was going outside to play with her older sisters.  When she opened the door a neighbor's dog knocked her down and ran into the house.  I tried talking to the neighbor about it but their response was " Well, you shouldn't leave your door open."

Made me a firm believer that sometimes the best way to train a dog is to shoot the owner.

[K.K]

I am a dog lover, and own three.  However, There is a big difference between well-trained and cared for domestic pets and free-ranging feral dogs.  This past summer, my father-in-law and I were roasting a pig and he spotted four feral dogs.  They had been spotted on his land before trying to kill his geese and kittens.  I used a Les Baer AR-15 (223) to solve the problem.  I have no problem eliminating feral dogs, my mother in law runs a daycare on the premises, they threaten and destroy livestock, and run deer.   Pet owners should do their pets a favor and spey and neuter if they are not breeders, and save everyone a lot of trouble.  As far as ideal caliber, a well-placed shot from a 222 and up should do the trick.  I would use a larger caliber if ai had one handy.  Just cause they are varmints doesn't mean that they shouldn't get a quick, painless death.  Just my 2cents.

[roper]

Colorado has some pretty good laws as to protecting livestock owners as well as dog owners.   Alot of Colorado resident don't fully know the law as to what is an unincorpated area.  I live in El paso county the  county to the north Douglas has those areas and  besides local animal control, The Colorado Dept of Agriculture has status for handling of dogs.  I live way out of city limits in fact so far out we don't have a leash law so someones dog coming accross my property I don't have any right to shoot it. If it bites, circle me or goes after the horses or runs the horses I can shot it but better make sure it dies on my place.  Bad thing is a person can get arrest for doing what he thinks is right when it come to dogs.
We have had so much problems with pit bulls out here I think that is one dog you could shoot and not have a problem with.  Just my .02

[Graybeard]

SSS

[Slamfire]

This is a fence in state, not a fence out state. I don't have to have any fence. If your dog comes up here my dogs are liable to chew it up. They have a couple of others. One owner came to complain, the next time the dog showed up I called him, he wasn't home, I shot the dog.  :evil:

[tuck2]

My land is 15 miles from a town . I know the local land owners and their dogs. Any other dogs or cats on my land are targets for what ever rifle and shot gun I have in my hand.

[Qaz]

Following the logic of this string of posts should we just shoot the neighbor kids that come on your property if they are chaseing our dog, cat or our children? How about if they walk through your yard on the way to school and wear a path in it. If this sounds crazy, so do a lot of the replies. Dogs go visit when they get loose and they chase cats. Cats kill birds, mice, etc... it is what they do. I have seen very few dogs that were malicious in intent, but I have seen quite a few kids that were. Think about it  :-D  :-D

Qaz

[victorcharlie]

I spent several thousand dollars fencing in my place as roaming dogs were a threat.  Had a couple of the neighbors large mixed breed-pit bull based dogs that ran my wife into the barn and put her in a stall.  I was carrying my .38 on most trips to the barn but the dogs seemed to sense fear and wouldn't come after me with the pistol in my pocket.   An Asplunch tree crew came in to clear the power line right away and they told me "We cut trees over 4 counties, and by far these are the most aggressive dogs we've came in contact with.  I asked the neighbor if he wasn't scared those dogs would attack someone and he said "there just big babies"......this was after paying an $800 vet bill when his dogs ran his horse into a barbed wire fence.   He has 2 kids who are attached to the dogs so I really didn't want to shoot them....

I've told all the neighbors that if I catch a dog in my pasture, they only get one chance and won't come out alive.  I've spent all the money I'm going to spend, and now have a fence that's cattle strong, horse high and pig tight.  No doubt, good fences make good neighbors.......if one digs under.....shame on him.......

  20 years ago I shot another neighbors dog (doberman) who was running the wife to her car every morning.  I called the neighbor and told him to come get the carcass if he wanted it.  Things were never right with the neighbor after that.

My other neighbor told me if the dogs bothered me to shoot them.  I told him to do his own dirty work.

I keep a cheap daisy BB gun for neighbor hood "fluffies" who come into the yard to relieve themselves.  They will usually show up in the morning when the master lets them out, and in the afternoon when the master gets home from work and lets them out again.  The are no theat, but a nuciance and dig in the flower beds and poop in the yard......so they get the BB......and don't come into the yard very often.

My advise, is if the dog has to go permanently, use stealth and do it covertly.  Do what has to be done and keep your mouth closed about it.

I believe Greybeard calls this the 3 S's.......Shoot, shovel, and shut up.

[Greybeard]

Qaz, if you can't or don't understand the difference between a dog and a human then clearly you are part of the problem being discussed here. So get real and get back on topic or get out of the conversation.