Author Topic: Help on Rifle in 375 H&H (Read 1985 times)

nasem · « **on:** December 12, 2005, 08:30:04 AM »

Just got a new promotion, and I have money to spend lol

Im looking for a decent 375 H&H rifle, one that comes to mind is the CZ550-American safari (whatever it is). but i heard alot of good things about it, and mostly, I like the fact that its got a 25" barrel and weights 9.3 LBS without a scope (good for soaking up the recoil)

What do you guys think ? and also please let me know if you have a better rifle in mind for this caliber

thanks

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 12, 2005, 11:07:07 AM »

Quote from: nasem

Just got a new promotion, and I have money to spend lol

Im looking for a decent 375 H&H rifle, one that comes to mind is the CZ550-American safari (whatever it is). but i heard alot of good things about it, and mostly, I like the fact that its got a 25" barrel and weights 9.3 LBS without a scope (good for soaking up the recoil)

What do you guys think ? and also please let me know if you have a better rifle in mind for this caliber

thanks

What do you plan on hunting? Because you can go up to the 416 Rigby in the CZ like I did. They also have even bigger rounds if needed. So it will depend on your intended use and how well you handle recoil.

Ramrod · « **Reply #2 on:** December 12, 2005, 11:28:02 AM »

The CZ rifles are nice in the mid range calibers. For the .375 on up, you can't beat the Winchester Classic Safari Model. Factory installed double crossbolts make these (nice wallnut) rifle stocks immune to recoil. They are very pleasant to shoot, too.

nasem · « **Reply #3 on:** December 12, 2005, 11:30:19 AM »

Well, I seem to handle the recoil of a 300RUM pretty OK, it only bothers me when I fire more than 30 rounds in over an hour.

Hunting wise, im not much of a hunter, I mean my friends are BEGGING me to go hunting with them (elk, black bear, brown bear, whitetail, etc), but I think im getting into this whole "omg I want that caliber in my collection" thing and by the way, I think this february im going out with my friend and his father bear hunting.

Honestly, I don't know about 416 rig. I mean a box of bullets is like over 100$ and I don't really reload. And they pack over 60 ft-lb of recoil so I don't know if I wanna go there. So my other choise of "dangerous game rifle" was the famous 375 H&H with a 9.3 lbs rifle, I think the recoil will be even less than my 300RUM (less than 40 ft-lb) which is defenetly OK to shoot with.

So RedHawk1, how are those CZ550 American Safari Magnums?

corbanzo · « **Reply #4 on:** December 12, 2005, 11:51:21 AM »

I have a CZ550 in .458lott, and it does me quite fine. It handles the caliber fine, but it's not for any huge distances, just knocking the hell out of stuff. If you are going to be hunting bear/moose/elk, I would say that the .375 is great, which is what I use my .458 for, but anything quicker, more distance, I would recommend something smaller. Like a 300RUM, still gets the job done for anything not in africa, but the trajectory is better, and its a shitload less expensive for ammo. Haven't had any problems with my 550 though, smooth action, shoots straight, doesn't hop around at all, puts big holes in things. You could also look at the remington 700XCR, some of my buddies have them, and they are just sexy. I'm gonna buy one in the 300RUM next time I have $700 or so. You could also look at a .338 lapua mag, more militaries are starting to use it for sniping, amazing ballistics, but I haven't seen a whole lot of companies making a rifle for it. If you REALLY want to blow some money, and put some massive holes in things, and leave your shoulder out in the woods, and kill an elephant in one shot, you could get a .460 weatherby. I'm pretty sure weatherby is the only company that makes a rifle for it, and there is probably good reason for that. Rediculous would be a good word, but hey, you could shoot the rocks in front of a moose a 100 yards and still knock him dead.

Lawdog · « **Reply #5 on:** December 12, 2005, 11:59:58 AM »

nasem,

Quote

Honestly, I don't know about 416 rig. I mean a box of bullets is like over 100$ and I don't really reload.

Ammo cost is coming way down on the .416 Rigby. Hornady is going to be loading two different loads for the .416 Rigby and at a cost not much different than "magnum" ammo. The only thing I would worry about with the CZ is they need to be glass bedded and have cross lug bolts added to keep the stock from splitting. Even CZ will agree to this. Lawdog

Ramrod · « **Reply #6 on:** December 12, 2005, 12:41:56 PM »

Like I said before, the Winchester is double bolted. You can't break these guns. And if you can't get the job done with a .375, you are wasting your money on a .416. Higher velocity with a slightly heavier bullet will not cut it, you will need a 500 grain .458 or .470.

nasem · « **Reply #7 on:** December 12, 2005, 01:20:28 PM »

I dunno about the 460 weatherby, thats 100 ft-lb energyof recoil (about 5 times that of a 30-06) Im pretty sure I can pop a few shots with it, even without the muzzle break (which by the way I would never have a muzzle break on any gun, I think (and don't quote me here) it reduces the power/energy of the bullet) But my shoulder wouldn't be too happy with me :-)

But seriously, 375 H&H is more of a "practical all around rifle", I think for distance any where from zero to 200 yards, its a pretty good "all around rifle". And those CZ 550 are really getting my attention, however, Lawdawg mentioned something about getting them double-bolted (how much does this cost, and I really don't know much about rifles so someone please fill me in on what are these "fixes" that should be done on this fine CZ550

Jimi · « **Reply #8 on:** December 12, 2005, 01:50:58 PM »

I don't have a lot of personal experience with CZ's. I have heard good things about them, but the Winchester M70 isn't known as the Rifleman's Rifle for nothing. Take a serious look at the Safari Express. It's a great firearm and a good conversation piece in North American hunting camps. Also, for North America there is absolutely no need to look beyond the .375. A .416 isn't going to buy you any significant benefit in the power department (meaning that you don't need it for bear... not that it isn't more powerful. It is.) yet it is far more limited on longer range shooting.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 12, 2005, 02:01:16 PM »

nasem, if your heart is set on the 375 H&H them by all means get it. It will work great for all that you have listed. I will second what Lawdog said about glass bedded, but CZ told me the second cross lug is not really needed, and that was for my 416 Rigby. It can be done for under $200, well that is what I am paying. The CZ550 American Safari Magnums are very good in my opinion, I have a few friends that own them and I have one myself. I would not hesitate to get another one. Also go to the CZ forum here at Graybeard and post to other CZ users.

nasem · « **Reply #10 on:** December 12, 2005, 03:24:35 PM »

Can you go without doing those minor fixes to a CZ 550

Andy2590 · « **Reply #11 on:** December 12, 2005, 04:12:55 PM »

If you were to get a cz 550 with a laminated stck, would it still need crossbolted?

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #12 on:** December 13, 2005, 01:08:49 AM »

Quote from: nasem

Can you go without doing those minor fixes to a CZ 550

Give CZ all call or e-mail them at. gunsmith@cz-usa.com

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #13 on:** December 13, 2005, 01:10:31 AM »

Quote from: Andy2590

If you were to get a cz 550 with a laminated stck, would it still need crossbolted?

They come with one, but some say it requires two and glass bedded. Contact CZ by e-mail at. gunsmith@cz-usa.com

jro45 · « **Reply #14 on:** December 13, 2005, 02:14:36 AM »

My 375 H&H is a Sako Hunter 75 model.Its a great rifle.

Zachary · « **Reply #15 on:** December 13, 2005, 02:47:46 AM »

I bought a Winchester M70 Classic Stainless in .375H&H about 3 years ago. It has double sights but no twin cross bolts in the synthetic stock. I changed the cheap plastic stock and replaced it with a McMillan stock with a Pachmyer recoil pad. A professional gunsmith did it for me, as well as glass bed the action, polish the bolt and action (which makes it silky and glassy smooth - even smoother than my Tikkas), a trigger job with pull set at about 3 lbs (maybe 3.5 if I remember correctly), and perhaps some other customized work that I can't remember right now.

Anyway, this is the sweetest gun I own. Why? Because with Plain Jane Federal 300 grain Hi-Shock ammo, it shoots 1/4" groups, and even 1/8" groups!! :eek: Now, after shooting a few rounds, the recoil starts to get to be (and perhaps the barrel heats up a bit after all that powder burn), and the groups might get up to 1/2". Think about it, my .375H&H is more accurate than a varmint gun! It's funny, when I shot my second shot, I thought that I must have completely blown the target. After my third shot, I thought that the scope must have broken. Well, at the end of the range, when I looked closely, I noticed that all three bullets were almost inside of each other. OH MY GOSH! My eyes almost came out of my head!

I once read an article written by Craig Boddington and he mentioned that one of the rifles that he shot got groups of 1/8" and he said "Yup, you guys read it right...1/8" (or something like that). Well, I believe him because my gun shoots the same way.

Now, does that mean that every Winchester M70 Classic Stainless will shoot that well? I hardly think so. Also, remember that my gun was customized. I can't tell you how it shot before all that work because I never shot it out of the box.

Still, my vote would be for the Winchester M70.

Zachary

Thebear_78 · « **Reply #16 on:** December 13, 2005, 03:07:00 AM »

My m70 classic stainless also shot very good. I put it in a hogue over molded stock and it wasn't uncomon to shoot sub inch groups at 100 yards often sub 3/4" groups. It was a tad too heavy for my hunting style so I recently took it to have it lightened up. I'm shooting for 7.5 scoped. Not sure if they can get it down that much but hopefully close.

Zachary · « **Reply #17 on:** December 13, 2005, 04:46:05 AM »

I should note that my particular Winchester M70 CS likes that Plain Jane 300 Grain Federal Hi-Shocks the best. With Premium Federal 300 grain Nosler Partitions, my groups opened up to about 3/4" also.

You similarly said that you gun groups 3/4". By chance, and out of curiosity, are you also shooting 300 gr. Nosler Partitions?

Zachary

EsoxLucius · « **Reply #18 on:** December 13, 2005, 05:41:10 AM »

For about $900 you can't go wrong with the Winchester Model 70 Classic Safari Express.

I have a Winchester Model 70 Classic Stainless in 375 H&H and other than replacing the buttpad with a Pachmayr pre-fit, mounting a scope on it and adjusting the trigger I shoot it as is. It is a very acceptable rifle for $700.

Thebear_78 · « **Reply #19 on:** December 13, 2005, 08:33:44 AM »

Zachary-

I have been shooting mainly 260gr accubonds and 300gr partitions, they both shoot about the same. My gun has shot the rem 270gr RN load very accurately as well. THe best thing I ever did for accuracy of the rifle was the hogue stock. It was the one with the full aluminum bedding block, much better than the factory original. THe only problem with it was it was fairly heavy, thats part of the reason I am having my rifle lightened up with an ultralight stock and a little metal trimming.

Those M70 classic stainless are great rifles and anyone looking to get one better hop on the ball, winchester just discontinued them. Its a real shame because they were very popular here in alaska.

Zachary · « **Reply #20 on:** December 13, 2005, 08:47:47 AM »

Bear,

Thanks for the info on the ammo and loads. I'm certain that the aluminum bedding block helped in terms of repeatable accuracy. My McMillan stock is fairly light - I don't recall if it has an aluminum bedding block.

I'm surprised that Winchester is discontinuing the M70 Classic Stainless. I bet having a stainless .375H&H rifle in Alaska would be quite popular.

Zachary

Thebear_78 · « **Reply #21 on:** December 13, 2005, 08:58:55 AM »

I don't think that the mcmillan would need a aluminum block, it is already a fairly stiff stock and once bedded should be every bit as accurate as an aluminum block. THe hogue is such a soft stock material that the aluminum block is needed for good accuracy.

Its a shame cause it was about the perfect all around big game rifle for alaska.

nasem · « **Reply #22 on:** December 13, 2005, 09:05:52 AM »

Well, my 2 options here are either cz-550 american safari magnum OR the Winchester 70 stainless..
Well I love winchester guns, they are very firm / accurate/ and look darn good, but those czs weight 9.3 lbs , and the Winchesters dont even weight 8 lbs, My only concern is, wouldnt that effect the recoil a lot ? I mean the CZ 550 should have less recoil, and thats what I like (I dont wanna get my butt handed to me after the range)

What do you guys think

Thebear_78 · « **Reply #23 on:** December 13, 2005, 09:48:19 AM »

Don't be fooled by the winchester factory numbers. My stainless 375 weighted in at over 9lbs with the hogue overmolded stock, that was before the scope. Completed weight was nearly 12lbs for a loaded rifle and scope. They are heavy enough to negate any recoil. The 375 really doesn't kick all that hard anyway.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #24 on:** December 13, 2005, 10:48:41 AM »

nasem, the only time recoil becomes a factor is at the bench. Felt recoil while hunting is like nonexistent, it is there but you never feel it. But at the bench you can use a bast shooting pad. I Just sold my Sako in 375 H&H and it was a light gun and the recoil was not bad in my opinion.

nasem · « **Reply #25 on:** December 13, 2005, 11:14:26 AM »

Ok ok, you guys have convinced me to get the Winchester 70, but my only question now is. The CZ has 25 barrel and the Winchester has 24, does that matter by much ? I mean doesnt the longer barrel give more velocity + accuracy to the bullet (or am I dreaming here?)

My 2nd question. I need some good / Heavy scope rings / mounts What do you guys suggest (and I Dont wanna kill my wallet here either  )

thnx guys

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #26 on:** December 13, 2005, 12:23:42 PM »

Quote from: nasem

Ok ok, you guys have convinced me to get the Winchester 70, but my only question now is. The CZ has 25 barrel and the Winchester has 24, does that matter by much ? I mean doesnt the longer barrel give more velocity + accuracy to the bullet (or am I dreaming here?)

My 2nd question. I need some good / Heavy scope rings / mounts What do you guys suggest (and I Dont wanna kill my wallet here either  )

thnx guys

The CZ comes with rings.

RaySendero · « **Reply #27 on:** December 13, 2005, 02:44:29 PM »

Like CZ rifles, but.... If I were in your situation think I would opt for the Winchester model 70 safari classic:

Winchester link: http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodinfo/catalog/detail.asp?cat_id=535&type_id=023&cat=001C

But would suggest your look at other options of controlled round feed (CRF) rifle. Here's some other than the CZ you are already aware of:

1) Charles Daily Mauser link: http://www.charlesdaly.com/html/products/firearms/rifles/superior/mauserSuperior.asp

2) Dakota Arms Model 76 African link: http://dakotaarms.com/cgi-bin/quikstore.cgi?store=&search=yes&detail=yes&product=D76_African&category=&keywords=model%2076&hits_seen=&page=search.html&and=&affiliate_id=&exact_match=yes

nasem · « **Reply #28 on:** December 13, 2005, 03:31:06 PM »

Wow, that Charles Daly looks VERY nice.... How does it shoot, anyone know ?
I don't usually hear much about them but they sure as heck look nice

EsoxLucius · « **Reply #29 on:** December 14, 2005, 08:26:50 AM »

1" of barrel length will make no practical difference. If you want a reasonably priced 375 H&H that requires little fiddling around with out of the box, the Winchester Model 70 Classic Safari Express is a very good choice. You may not even be able to get a Charles Daly, and if you did it would need quite a bit of work. Have you seen the price of a Dakota Model 76 African? Even a Ruger M77 MarkII Deluxe Magnum while a very nice gun will require a new trigger.

For rings and a scope, I have the Leupold QR bases and rings on my Winchester M70 Classic Stainless 375 H&H and a Leupold VX-II 2-7x33mm scope. A Leupold VX-III 1.75-6x32mm would be a great scope on a 375 H&H and you could get Leupold Dual Dovetail bases and low rings for the Winchester M70 Classic Safari Express.