Author Topic: 20" 308 how loud is would it be? (Read 2427 times)

bluebayou · « **on:** October 03, 2005, 07:26:06 AM »

I'm planning next years gun purchase. Was thinking a 308 target rifle. Now I am thinking a walking around gun instead. The idea that I am tossing around is for a M700 SPS Youth with a 20" barrell. I would then drop the action into a full sized stock.

This would be cheaper than a M7 LS. I already have some Remington stocks. Someone told me that the rifle would be really loud. Anyone have any experience with a 308 or 7-08 with 20" barrel?

PEPAW · « **Reply #1 on:** October 03, 2005, 07:53:47 AM »

I have a Model 7 in .260 with 20". It is too short for my tastes and I would never advise a barrel less than 22". A longer barrel is easier to point and the weight on the "other end" can only help recoil and jump.

pepaw

Omaha-BeenGlockin · « **Reply #2 on:** October 03, 2005, 08:20:30 AM »

Get what you want----but yes---the short barrel will be LOUD.

kenscot · « **Reply #3 on:** October 03, 2005, 09:49:34 AM »

I have a browning micro hunter in 7mm-08 which has a 20" barrel I personally love the way it handles as a walk a round rifle. I don't find it much louder than my other rifles :grin:

billy · « **Reply #4 on:** October 03, 2005, 02:21:59 PM »

I have a model 7 LS in 7mm08 and love this little gun so handy ,it isn,t any louder than my model 700 in 270 .Great tree stand gun or walking about gun.

corelokt308win · « **Reply #5 on:** October 03, 2005, 02:41:09 PM »

I too have a microhunter and it just feels right. I think short rifles in the thick stuff just makes sense. I also like it for treestand hunting.

TX Devil Doc · « **Reply #6 on:** October 03, 2005, 05:34:38 PM »

I recently had the opportunity to shoot a Steyr-Mannlicher Classic in .308. This is the full stock model. An absolutely beautiful rifle! It did not seem any louder than my SM 7mm-08. It handled quite well as it seemed very well balanced. I plan on getting one of these, but haven't decided on which caliber.

The following is a site to buy Steyr-Mannlicher rifles and have good photos of all models including the one discussed above.

http://www.steyrclearinghouse.com/steyr_mannlicher_rifles.htm

bluebayou · « **Reply #7 on:** October 03, 2005, 06:12:52 PM »

You and the SteyrMannlicher.....

Holy cow.

Thanks for the input everyone. After handling a 243 M700 ADL at work I got to thinking that dropping one into a full size stock would be a really handy little package in the brush in AR.

PEPAW · « **Reply #8 on:** October 04, 2005, 04:41:07 AM »

If you want a light, "handy" rifle, make sure it is a short action. And has a small scope. I actually trim my stocks LOP off and add a quality pad which makes them lighter and shorter. But the 2 or 3 inches off the barrel is not a big weight difference in my opinion and that length increases velocity, reduces muzzle blast (by whatever amount) and increases "pointability". Until you have shot offhand a smaller gun and a barrel heavy gun, it is hard to understand how the heavier barrel could be easier to keep steady.
Is there someone out there who knows about the loudness of longer or shorter pistol barrels?

just my second opinion. :grin:

pepaw

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #9 on:** October 04, 2005, 06:07:39 AM »

Go with the browning micro hunter in 7mm-08 . Great gun.

hunt127588 · « **Reply #10 on:** October 05, 2005, 08:11:02 AM »

I bought exactly that for this year's hunting from a tree stand....A Remington LTR .308 which has a heavy countour 20" fluted barrel. Why? Shorter barrel is more maneuverable when up in a tree. The LTRs have proclaimed to be very accurate (approx. 1/2MOA @ 100). The parkerized finish won't shine so I can also use this as a walking coyote gun. I think this LTR the best of all worlds but that's my $.02.

Lawdog · « **Reply #11 on:** October 05, 2005, 03:27:29 PM »

A number of years ago a friend of mine built a 20" barreled .308. Ended up none of us wanted to hunt with him and he didn't even like it. Muzzle blast was more than he though. Ended up buying a brand new barrel. Would I ever have one? Not on a bet. Lawdog

RaySendero · « **Reply #12 on:** October 05, 2005, 04:29:32 PM »

Quote from: Lawdog

A number of years ago a friend of mine built a 20" barreled .308. Ended up none of us wanted to hunt with him and he didn't even like it. Muzzle blast was more than he though. Ended up buying a brand new barrel. Would I ever have one? Not on a bet. Lawdog

Thanks for the info!

I was seriously looking at a Reminton Police Special in 308 with a 20" bull/fluted barrel and a HS Precision stock. Got to see one and handle it a few weeks ago, but did not get to shoot it and wondered about the muzzle blast. The short length combined with the flutes in the 20" bull barrel reduce the frontal weight such that it balanced very well. It also weighted less than the Mauser and Swiss K-31 I like to carry.

bluebayou · « **Reply #13 on:** October 06, 2005, 06:44:23 PM »

Thanks, Pepaw, I will think on that stock shortening idea.

cal sibley · « **Reply #14 on:** October 07, 2005, 08:24:39 AM »

I've got mixed feelings on this one. I have a .308Win. in a Browning Micro-medallion. It weighs exactly 6.0lbs. with a pencil thin 20" barrel. It also has a fierce kick to it. The rifle was a cute rascal when new, but now the front of the stock looks like I used it for fungo ball practice from jumping out of the front cradle so often. When hunting it's not bad since we rarely feel the kick when shooting at an animal, but it's a brute at the bench. I sure wish it had another 1.5lbs and 2 more inches of barrel. I fairly well tamed it with a Pachmyer Decelerator Pad, and I also use a Past Recoil Shield at the bench. It groups around .9" (5 at 100yds.) so that part is alright. She's also a loud beggar. It's not a bad rifle, just not what I thought I was getting. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

williek · « **Reply #15 on:** October 07, 2005, 02:08:59 PM »

I shoot an 18 1/2" Ruger RSI .308.
I always wear good ear and shoulder protection while at the bench, and really never notice the kick or noise while shooting at a deer. It must be there but I find I am usually concentrating on other things at the time.
If you wear good protection at the bench I don't believe you will have any problem with a twenty inch barrel.
Good Hunting,
williek

Lawdog · « **Reply #16 on:** October 08, 2005, 10:33:12 AM »

Quote from: williek

I shoot an 18 1/2" Ruger RSI .308.
I always wear good ear and shoulder protection while at the bench, and really never notice the kick or noise while shooting at a deer. It must be there but I find I am usually concentrating on other things at the time.
If you wear good protection at the bench I don't believe you will have any problem with a twenty inch barrel.
Good Hunting,
williek

You may not notice the louder muzzle blast when shooting at game but it is taking it's toll on your hearing. Just ask a Otolaryngologist. Lawdog

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #17 on:** October 08, 2005, 11:48:22 AM »

Quote from: Lawdog

Quote from: williek
I shoot an 18 1/2" Ruger RSI .308.
I always wear good ear and shoulder protection while at the bench, and really never notice the kick or noise while shooting at a deer. It must be there but I find I am usually concentrating on other things at the time.
If you wear good protection at the bench I don't believe you will have any problem with a twenty inch barrel.
Good Hunting,
williek

You may not notice the louder muzzle blast when shooting at game but it is taking it's toll on your hearing. Just ask a Otolaryngologist. Lawdog

Good thing I read that, I could not hear you. :-D

RicMic · « **Reply #18 on:** December 17, 2005, 04:07:48 PM »

Okay just think about this for just a moment. Muzzle blast is a direct result of the remaining pressure in the barrel as the bullet departs. Not taking into account the cartridge case volume, the pressure at bullet exit is half as much as when the bullet is half way down the bore. To reduce the pressure in half again it would require twice the whole barrel length. Pressure at 11" = 2x psi, at 22" = x psi, at 44" = 0.5x psi. As you can see 2 or 3 inches would make almost no difference in muzzle blast of a rifle.

txpilot · « **Reply #19 on:** December 17, 2005, 04:46:12 PM »

Uhh, aren't guns supposed to be loud? :grin:

Seriously though, why should the loudness have any say in how you want a gun set up? It doesn't matter if the gun has 20" or 24", its still going to be loud enough to damage hearing if shot without protection.

bluebayou · « **Reply #20 on:** December 17, 2005, 04:58:05 PM »

I don't understand the physics of the 44" barrel theory. If the bullet has not exited the barrel I don't see how the pressure is reduced. I am assuming that you are on to an "inverse-square law" kind of thing here.

I appreciate your answering my question, but I just don't understand your reasoning.

txpilot: yeah, they are all loud. There was a guy next to me at the range one day with a 7mm Rem Mag with a BOSS and I could feel my clothes and glasses move when he pulled the trigger six feet away. Another guy had an LTR that SEEMED pretty loud. I know that it had more muzzle flash.

Thanks for the input.

Zachary · « **Reply #21 on:** December 18, 2005, 03:21:35 AM »

I was next to a guy at the range some years back and he was shooting (if I remember correctly) a Remington 700 Police with a 20" heavy blue barrel. I was at the bench right next to him, and that thing was noticeably louder. Yes, it was a .308.

Zachary

Bigfoot · « **Reply #22 on:** December 18, 2005, 05:44:27 AM »

A 18-20" barrel bolt gun without excessive muzzle blast. I've been kicking this subject around for some time now. I'd been looking at the shortened .308 cartridges that they use for benchrest, typically with capacities close to a 30-30. All I need is a 150gr bullet at 2400-2500 fps. But I always come back to this question,

Could the .308 be downloaded with faster powder and/or reduced amount so it finishes burning in the shorter barrel?

lgm270 · « **Reply #23 on:** December 18, 2005, 09:41:48 AM »

Ruger's new scout rifle has a 16.5" barrel and is offered in both .308 and the .300 WSM!

A 300 magnum in a 16.5" barrel? Not for me. A 24" barrel is loud enough in that chambering.

Lawdog · « **Reply #24 on:** December 18, 2005, 10:48:47 AM »

Quote from: lgm270

Ruger's new scout rifle has a 16.5" barrel and is offered in both .308 and the .300 WSM!

A 300 magnum in a 16.5" barrel? Not for me. A 24" barrel is loud enough in that chambering.

Me neither!!! :eek: No one can justify that short of a barrel. You say itÂ’s handy. How? A longer barrel swings easier thus stays on target better if you have to take a running shot. Some will say while hunting sound doesnÂ’t matter? Before anyone believes this go ask a Otolaryngologist and see what he says. ItÂ’s your hearing thatÂ’s at stake. Lawdog

wink_man · « **Reply #25 on:** December 18, 2005, 11:29:29 AM »

Aside from the hearing issue(and I'm certainly not arguing, or disagreeing with it), am I missing something here? Or have things changed in regards to magnum cartridges recently?? I have always been of the understanding that magnum cartridges used large amounts of slow burning powders, and therefore needed longer barrels to gain the benifit from those slow burning powders? Has that changed LOL? Assuming it hasn't, why would anyone chamber a 300 magnum in a 16 1/2 inch barrel, would seem you're just reducing it to a 308 velocity anyways and spending a lot more on ammo to boot.
Sincerely,
Garry

lgm270 · « **Reply #26 on:** December 18, 2005, 06:33:54 PM »

Quote from: wink_man

I have always been of the understanding that magnum cartridges used large amounts of slow burning powders, and therefore needed longer barrels to gain the benifit from those slow burning powders? Has that changed LOL? Assuming it hasn't, why would anyone chamber a 300 magnum in a 16 1/2 inch barrel, would seem you're just reducing it to a 308 velocity anyways and spending a lot more on ammo to boot.
Sincerely,
Garry

I saw a write up on the 16.5" Ruger chambered in the .300 WSM. It got 2,700 fps with 180 grain bullets in this short barrel. In a 24" barrel this same load gets 2,960 pfs, so you loose almost 300 fps. From a ballistic point of view, with this .300 WSM in a 16.5" barrel, its performance is reduced to that of a 30-06 Sprg. Not bad, but consider that in a 22" .308 you can get 2600 with a 180 grain bullet. In a 22" 30-06, you can get more than 2,750 fps with the 180 grain bullet. I personally find a 22" barreled 30-06 to be fairly handy. Even so, I'd rather be inconveienced a little by a 22" barrel than defeaned by a 300 Magnum in a 16 incher.

RicMic · « **Reply #27 on:** December 18, 2005, 07:01:29 PM »

Quote from: bluebayou

I don't understand the physics of the 44" barrel theory. If the bullet has not exited the barrel I don't see how the pressure is reduced. I am assuming that you are on to an "inverse-square law" kind of thing here.

I appreciate your answering my question, but I just don't understand your reasoning.

It has to do with the volume inside the barrel, twice the volume is half the pressure. Peek pressure occurs at 0 to 3 inches of bullet travel from ignition in a rifle, depending on case size, max pressure, and powder used, and 0 to 1 inch in a pistol, after that the pressure goes down as the bullet travels down the bore, the same as a piston in an engine.

jro45 · « **Reply #28 on:** December 19, 2005, 03:08:38 AM »

I like long range rifles and a 20" barrel would not get it done. :-D

longwinters · « **Reply #29 on:** December 19, 2005, 03:54:52 AM »

If I measure approx 2", by holding my thumb and trigger finger out in front of me, (____________________________) I just cannot understand why two inches longer, 20" - 22", would make any rifle easier to carry, point or aim. 4" maybe but not 2". But since I like all my rifles to have 22" - 24" barrels I don't worry about it.

Long