Author Topic: A 223 for coyote hunting (Read 1623 times)

handirifle · « **on:** September 03, 2005, 07:35:32 PM »

I am gonna be in the market for a 223 bolt, left hand, (soon (hopefully) and I am leaning heavily on the Savage 11 series. Not sure if synthetic or wood.

I like the idea of a bit lighter weight with synthetic, but I shoot about 12 1/2 - 12 3/4" LOP (can you say youth size?) so wood is easier to modify.

I'm assuming the series 11's will give me MOA accuracy, is this correct? I am NOT looking to go prarrie dog hunting with it so heavy barrel is out of the question. I hunt in the San Gabriel mountains and the hill can be steep and tall so weight IS a factor.

Unfortunately, the Stevens 200 is only RH or I would go that way.

Will the 11's (in 223) give me MOA?

Has anyone ever cut down the stock on a synthetic?

I have a syn stock here I bought for my Savage 30-06 and it looks like 3/4" to 1" cut will work. Any comments?

beemanbeme · « **Reply #1 on:** September 04, 2005, 04:08:40 AM »

I have NO ecperience with a Savage but they are spoken of highly by some. And the .223 is an excellent start to a barn wall covered with hides. Ideally, you want to keep the bullet inside the yote when possible so don't fall in love with motoring a light for calibre bullet at warp speeds. Unless you like to spend a lot of time sewing up pelts.
As far as your choice of synthetic, I think that is wise as the rifle will be something of a "truck gun" and will probably see some rough use. Someone else will have to answer your question about shortening a syn stock. They do make an after market stock called a "cadet" that has shorter dims.

jvs · « **Reply #2 on:** September 04, 2005, 05:47:50 AM »

A .223 for Yotes would be the cheapest shooting of the calibers you can use. A .22 Hornet would be next, then the .222.

I actually prefer the .22 Hornet for stuff under 45 pounds. I have taken Female Yotes with a 22 Long Rifle at close range. The Hornet would be good up to 150 yds and the .222 & .223 much longer than that.

I also understand thet the new .204 Ruger is a good Varmint caliber, but I'm stuck in the past.

Lawdog · « **Reply #3 on:** September 04, 2005, 01:01:32 PM »

The Savage is an excellent choice but instead of the 11 series I would go with the Model 12FLV Left-hand Model with AccuTrigger in either the .223 Rem., .22-250 or the .204 Ruger. I would lean towards the .204 myself due to less pelt damage from reports from those that are using it. With the model 12 you are getting a longer, heavier barrel for only an additional $50.00 or so. Lawdog

handirifle · « **Reply #4 on:** September 04, 2005, 01:34:54 PM »

Lawdog
Those are good points on the model 12 except it's 1 1/2lb heavier. I figure 300yds is the max I'd ever shoot and either caliber is well up to the task from a 22" barrel.

I see the 11's do not offer a 204 option, But I am kinda partial to the 223. The 204 has some strong points but on occasion I might use the 223 for bigger critters and want to make sure it is up to it.

I reall do not want a heavy rifle. When I have to hike up a 1,000 foot climb with lots of it being very steep rifles get heavy. One reason the 223 UV is going bye bye, too heavy for my hunting.

The Hornet is ruled out for much of the same reason as the 204, not enough power for bigger critters, and availablity of ammo, besides reloads.

beeman
I'll have to look into the "cadet stock" That is a better idea than cutting one down.

mountainview · « **Reply #5 on:** September 04, 2005, 04:12:12 PM »

handi,

I own a 12FV, 11 Syn stock, and 110 Wood stock. All are accurate and reliable and so have been all the other Savages that I have shot. I don't think you got too much to worry about in the accuracy department. My 12FV in 223 really shines with handloads and the Accutrigger is a nice feature. Regards the stock, I like the look/feel of the wood but really appreciate the utilitarian aspects of synthetic stocks. Wood would be easier to cut down as DIY work but most gunsmiths will cut down synthetics and fit a pad for not too excessive an amount (I also need the shorter LOP).

Good luck with your purchasing

kenscot · « **Reply #6 on:** September 04, 2005, 04:46:27 PM »

handi,
If it is a short stocked lefty 223 your looking for try the browning micro hunter. at 6lb 4oz nice light rifle and with handloads I am getting less than1/2" groups. This is my yote rifle here in NY.
Ken

handirifle · « **Reply #7 on:** September 04, 2005, 06:36:22 PM »

Wow
Ken that is just what i was looking for. Will investigate this one. What is a good street price for that rifle?

handirifle · « **Reply #8 on:** September 04, 2005, 06:39:38 PM »

Do they still make it? I only see the Hornet or 22-250, I really wanted a 223.

handirifle · « **Reply #9 on:** September 04, 2005, 06:43:10 PM »

They list the LOP @ at 13 5/16" that is longer than I use. I run about 12 3/4" more like youth size. Is yours that long, most adult LOP is about 13 1/2. Typo?

Must have dropped the 223 from the lineup.

lilabner · « **Reply #10 on:** September 04, 2005, 07:27:38 PM »

Accuracy is a variable for every make of rifle. However, your chances of getting MOA or better are pretty good with Savage rifles - probably as good or better than most rifles. I got a 16 (stainless) with synthetic stock in .243 and loaded up some break in ammo using some old IMR 4831 and cheap bullets. It shot sub MOA. Then I loaded up high velocity hunting rounds with Nosler bullets and compressed IMR 7828. That shot sub MOA also. Some fooling around with bullet seating depth, different powders and powder charges and more accurate bullets like Sierra would probably yield better results. This is decent performance for a 6 1/2 pound rifle with sporter weight barrel. I plan to load some 75 gr. bullets for varmint hunting.

sscoyote · « **Reply #11 on:** September 04, 2005, 08:14:56 PM »

Have had 2 Rem. Model 7's in .17 Rem. with 18.5" barrels that were exclusively for coyotes. After almost 30 yrs. pursuing coyotes @ 40-70/season, these 2 rifles were 2 of my very favorites for long-haul hunts. These 2 rigs were good to about 300 or so on coyotes with the heavier 30 grainers. I'm not sure if they still make the 7's or not in .223 Rem.

jvs · « **Reply #12 on:** September 04, 2005, 08:35:59 PM »

I was going to mention the .17 Rem in my first post too but I figured to stay in the 20's. As said, the .223 would be the cheapest one by far to shoot and with enough power and range. The .22 Hornet wouldn't be underpowered for Coyotes out to about 150 or so yds and the Hornet ammo comes in boxes of 50, not 20, so it is one of the cheaper 22 calibers to shoot.

Seems like a .223 in a youth model would be the ticket for you.

handirifle · « **Reply #13 on:** September 04, 2005, 08:54:59 PM »

Who all makes a youth model?

jvs · « **Reply #14 on:** September 05, 2005, 12:54:03 AM »

A quick check of the Remington, Winchester and Savage websites show that Remington and Savage both have the .223 in Youth Models. Winchester does not. I did not check Browning or Weatherby.

Remington Youth have: LOP: 12 3/8"; Drop at Comb: 1 1/4"; Drop at Heel: 1 1/2"

They can be found at :

http://www.remington.com/firearms/youth/m7youthsyn.htm

Savage Arms Youth Models at :

http://www.savagearms.com/10GY.htm

and...

http://www.savagearms.com/11fyxp3.htm

Savage doesn't show the LOP or Drop for Youth Models but they should be close to what Remington shows. Unfortunately, none have South Paw Youth.

handirifle · « **Reply #15 on:** September 05, 2005, 11:42:03 AM »

Quote from: jvs

Unfortunately, none have South Paw Youth.

Story of my life!

jvs · « **Reply #16 on:** September 05, 2005, 12:39:13 PM »

After looking at your nick for a while I decided to look in the H&R website.

Lo & behold they have single shot Youth Models in .223. They are single-shot, but with a Break-Open action it doesn't matter if you are Right or Left Handed. The only thing you give up is a quick second shot.

PEPAW · « **Reply #17 on:** September 06, 2005, 03:05:05 AM »

As a fellow lefty, I also need a shorter LOP. I had my LH 700 with Bell and Carlson shortened so I could add a Decelerator, but I don't know what process the fellow used.
I would get the wood Savage and trim it off.
I like your choice of caliber. Wish I had one instead of two .222's. Mine "next" gun is a Swift, but has a varmit barrel that is too heavy to be handy.

pepaw

handirifle · « **Reply #18 on:** September 06, 2005, 06:17:03 PM »

jvs
I'm selling off my H&R's to get the Savage bolt. :grin:

The 223 Ultra Varmint I have will put three in a dime at 100yds, but it is too heavy.

H&R's ultralights are hit and miss for accuracy. One reason I'm going to Savage as well.

Maybe I'll go with the wood, but sure like to think of the synthetic more able to take a beating.

jvs · « **Reply #19 on:** September 06, 2005, 09:59:33 PM »

Quote from: handirifle

jvs
I'm selling off my H&R's to get the Savage bolt. :grin:

The 223 Ultra Varmint I have will put three in a dime at 100yds, but it is too heavy.

H&R's ultralights are hit and miss for accuracy. One reason I'm going to Savage as well.

Maybe I'll go with the wood, but sure like to think of the synthetic more able to take a beating.

handirifle,

Wood or Synthetic has always been a personal preference. I have some synthetics but I prefer wood because there were no Synthetic stocks when I started hunting. When Synthetics first came out you paid a premium price for it. Now, synthetic seems to be the way to go for ease of maintenance and durability. Some of the earliest Synthetic stocks seem to be fading in color. Is that a materials failure in progress? I don't know.

I believe that one day, which may not be too far in the future, you will be charged a premium for a Walnut stock because of the amount of production time involved. Will the future collectors be looking for the 'old fashioned' wooden stocks? Who knows.

Wooden stocks take a little more care after use, but I believe in the long run a wooden stock makes a firearm a much more desirable piece.

beemanbeme · « **Reply #20 on:** September 07, 2005, 02:27:03 AM »

The best of both worlds would be to buy a standard pull walnut stock on the rifle. Then buy an after market syn stock with the shorter pull. If you decided to sell the rifle, you could put the walnut stock back on it.
Also, I have a couple of rifles that I have syn stocks for that I use for hunting in poor weather. but they wear walnut stocks when they're in the safe or I'm showing them to friends.

handirifle · « **Reply #21 on:** September 07, 2005, 09:22:09 AM »

I think I'll go with the synthetic and cut it to length for me. Let the next guy worry about his own problems. This rifle is intended for winter use. I'd get the stainless model if I were not as concerned with concealment but the stainless barrel stands out like a sore thumb to me.

Can those be stained?

Eddie in Delta · « **Reply #22 on:** September 08, 2005, 05:33:39 PM »

You can paint them with anything you want, if you feel the urge.

Eddie

PEPAW · « **Reply #23 on:** September 09, 2005, 03:15:30 AM »

When you mentioned cutting the synthetic to your length, it made me wonder if it was that easy. I have "shortened" several wood stocks, but the "hollow" plastics stocks baffle me. Let me know how it works out.

pepaw

handirifle · « **Reply #24 on:** September 09, 2005, 05:20:19 AM »

Will do. I should take pics and post them too. It doesn't look too hard to do to me.

safetysheriff · « **Reply #25 on:** September 10, 2005, 01:57:07 AM »

handi'

i'm right-handed but have shot my friends left-handed 7mm Rem' mag' in a Ruger with no problems in spite of the heavy recoil. Before he got into reloading I used to load his brass for that rifle. As you can imagine, it did kick......

That being said, a Model 7 in youth or youth synthetic (by Rem' of course) will get you a 6 1/4 lb. rifle with a 20" barel that should be very accurate. It will have ALL the qualities you want except left-handed' but I believe you could get used to that. I know that I could get used to a wrong-handed rifle if it was in a caliber/rifle that I wanted.

The list price is only $580. The LOP is only 12 3/8". It has a hinged-floorplate magazine. Nice feature....in a rifle of .223 caliber.

just a thought,

ss'

Gregory · « **Reply #26 on:** September 10, 2005, 07:38:42 AM »

There is no Browning Mico-Hunter in 223 but there is a Hunter Model:

A-Bolt Hunter, Left-Hand

Item Number
        035043208

Caliber / Gauge
        223 Rem.

Magazine Capacity
        5

Barrel Length
        22"

Nominal Overall Length
        41 1/4"

Nominal Length of Pull
        13 5/8"

Nominal Drop at Comb
        5/8"

Nominal Drop at Heel
        1/2"

Nominal Weight
        6 lbs. 4 oz.

Rate of Twist One Turn in
        12

Metal Finish
        Low-Luster Blueing

Stock Finish
        Satin Finish

U.S. Suggested Retail
        $735

handirifle · « **Reply #27 on:** September 10, 2005, 12:08:04 PM »

Well
Problem solved. I ordered a Savage 11FL in 223. Will be able to pick it up in a little over a week. After receiving a synthetic stock for my 30-06 I looked it over carefully and it looks like it can easily be cut down When I do it (soon) I'll take pics and post them on my web site.

Then I'll do the same thing to my 223.

kenscot · « **Reply #28 on:** September 19, 2005, 01:07:00 PM »

Greg,
You are correct browning no longer offers the micro hunter in 223 guess I was lucky to get mine when I did believe I payed 575.00
Handi,
Glad you got the rifle you needed

handirifle · « **Reply #29 on:** September 20, 2005, 06:56:23 PM »

Well it's settled for sure now. I just picked up my Savage 11FL in 223 and my 93 17HMR.

Gonna terrorize the coyote and bobcat population this winter.