Author Topic: The Great Remington Debate  (Read 29708 times)

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Offline ironglow

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Re: The Great Remington Debate
« Reply #60 on: September 15, 2006, 01:23:02 AM »
  I spoke in an earlier post about buying a Rem 7600 all-weather.308 for a deer rifle because our area was just opened to rifle after being shotgun only for the 20th century...here's an update.
  I don't have the 7600 any more..Nothing wrong with the gun though..
 
  At the same time I bought my 7600 from GM, my grandson bought a Marlin 336C 30/30 at Walmart. We went to the range in my woods for sight in..

  Now, this 70 yr old grandpa has rotator cuff problems, so the weight and long reach to the pump slide was a bit difficult for me..not so for my 6'5" grandson...and I sure did like the way that Marlin 336 worked for me !

  Jonny, my grandson said " let's swap then !"  ..Gramps said "right on!'..so we did..
   Another anecdote; that was last year, preparing for deer season. The Marlin gave me good groups for a lever action right off..Jonny started having trouble with holding groups...I discovered his scope was not firmly in place..
   Better, but still had trouble with groups I didn't think it was the rifle though..I figured it was a bit of jerking the trigger or flinch on his part.
  by this time, Jonny was getting desperate, just about 2 days to opening day!
 
  He came down to the woods for a last attempt to get a decent group on paper. He was desperate and disgusted..so much so that he had gone back to iron sights.
  It so happened that Jonny's older brother Joshua, was home on leave from the Marines on pre deployment leave. Josh is  Spec Ops Marine and his unit's designated sniper.
  Jonny tried a couple groups of three...about a 6" spread at about 70 yards..he started blaming the rifle..which I doubted..

  I assured him that if the Rem didn't work out, we would swap back..
   
      Then i said " we have our resident sniper here..let's see if it's the gun!"
  Josh took that 7600 with the original iron sights and on the 70 yard target, put two shots into one slightly elongated hole !!

  I said, "Jonny, it's not the rifle"..Then Josh and I got down to some serious coaching.
  Soon Jonny was getting tight groups and a deer a couple days later.

 BTW: by now Josh has returned from his deployment in Al Anbar province near Ramadi..along with action virtually every day, he also had 2 or 3 one-on-ones with Al Queda snipers.

   Ask me if I am glad I started him early on shooting..!
     

   The following is my opinion only..so take it or leave it:
 
Unless otherwise stated, I'm talking about standard priced guns..

  I would hate to see any American gun maker fold, say nothing about our most historic maker !
  I believe that gun makers have their ebb and flow when it comes to quality.
 
    I know my original 10/22 (mfg 1964) shoots better than the current crop. in fact. it shoots alongside the tricked out ones i have built !

  Look at Winchester from 1964 till when.. 1982 ?
 
  Although I think the Savage is most accurate centerfire "out of the box"..there must be a reason that most american sniper rifles are based on Rem actions..
  Rem has had some dud .22s..Viper and perhaps the 597..the jury is out.

    I believe that accuracy in a low priced .22 is likely to come with a Marlin or Savage name..and bolt action..
 
  Around here Rem is the best selling shotgun...must be a reason..

   ...just my $.02 
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline sniperVLS

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Re: The Great Remington Debate
« Reply #61 on: September 15, 2006, 05:56:58 AM »
Thats a great story! I'm not familiar with anything other than Bolt action remmys so I was interested to see where you were taking it.

As far as shotgun sales, I wish I could find the thread but at one time there was a post showing shotgun sales with remington around 215,000, mossberg was half that, and the other makers had abysmal #'s in comparison(like 20,000 and lower if I recall). If someone can find that thread, Please post!

As far as out of the box accuracy.... Snipers write these reviews...

http://www.snipercountry.com/InReviews/Rem_M700_StainlessSpecial5RMilspec.asp

Thats the next rifle Im adding to the safe. Its uses the same 5R rifling the Armys M24 and Marines M40 Remmys use. Its not the exact barrels as the actual Army and Marine issued rifles use Mike Rocks custom 5R barrels(well some do anyways). I know a few snipers who have been in the sandbox and picked up a Milspec from their local dealer for poops and giggles, and they are stunned to see that it shoots as good as their 3,000 sticks did. All of this done with no trigger tuning or skim bedding, its right out of the box.

If interested, they are rare. They made a run of a couple hundred in 2003/2004 and a few hundred more in 2005 to present. Online sellers have some available, as well as Gunbroker and Gunsamerica.

The earlier one had the same shaped stock senderos/vsf's use with grey webbing. The newer ones use an all new HS Prec stock and comes with green webbing. Its got a very wide foreend(as can be seen in the pics below) as well as 2 studs upfront.



I hope Im not breaking any rules but here is a site that shows prices...

Remington M24(Army) packages...
http://www.snipercountrypx.com/c-835-m24.aspx

Remington SS 5R Milspec...
http://www.snipercountrypx.com/c-836-700ss-r5-mil-spec.aspx




Offline dw06

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Re: The Great Remington Debate
« Reply #62 on: September 15, 2006, 08:45:45 AM »
ironglow,that is a great story enjoyed it.I thank Josh for his service,and hope for his safe return.
If you find yourself in a hole,the first thing to do is stop digging-Will Rogers

Offline USMC0332

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Re: The Great Remington Debate
« Reply #63 on: September 15, 2006, 10:58:35 AM »
I appreciate your Grandson and his service for this country. Thanks for teaching him to shoot.

Offline JPSaxMan

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Re: The Great Remington Debate
« Reply #64 on: September 15, 2006, 11:55:29 AM »
Ironglow, that was a great story! I too appreciate your grandson's service to protect my freedom and liberties!
JP

Attorney: Now doctor, isn't it true that when a person dies in
his sleep, he doesn't know about it until the next morning?

Doctor: Did you actually pass the bar exam?

Proverbs 3:5 - Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding

Offline tomzuki

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Re: The Great Remington Debate
« Reply #65 on: October 06, 2006, 06:03:36 AM »
Nope! Not a Remington!  I have several older model 870's.  Went looking for another.  When I was handling this one at the shop counter the new keyed safety device actually turned and locked without the key.  I thought this would be a good feature when I'm in the blind, hunting and my shotgun can lock itself.  The Salesman said there must be something wrong with this particular shotgun and I agreed.  Bought a Winchester 1300 instead.  Plenty of "Normal" safety  features on this one.  Didn't know that the centerfire rifles also had this keyed safety cause I shoot Ruger 77's for big game. 
Tomzuki

Offline jro45

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Re: The Great Remington Debate
« Reply #66 on: October 06, 2006, 08:38:22 AM »
Most of my rifles are Remingtons. Only had one problem with one of them. I was shooting it when I noticed the trigger getting harder to pull. So after cleaning it I adjusted the trigger down to ware it was comforable [ about 3.5 LBS it was 6 LBS ]. Then I put it back in its stock
and tried the trigger again and to my supprise it went back to 6LBS pull. So then I took it to my gunsmiths place and told him what it was doing. Well he had to bed the action because the wood was interfering with the action.
I was supprised that it wasn'y obvious when I first got the rifle.

Offline TLARbb

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Re: The Great Remington Debate
« Reply #67 on: October 21, 2006, 06:05:22 PM »
About 5 or so years ago I bought a 700 VLS in .260 Rem.  It is not a stellar performer.  But, in truth I have fired only two boxes of factory ammo through it.  I am getting back into recreational shooting again, so I'll be playing with it agian in the near future.  I'll let you know how that comes out.

That said, I have owned a number of 700's in my time and currently I am paying one out (a .243 Win CDL) at the local sporting goods spot.  It is a replacement for a .243 Classic that disappeared about 3 years ago.  That rifle was just phenominally accurate.  And the best one I have ever owned.  The individual that got it sure knew how to pick them.  I should have the new CDL in my possession by mid-November.  It really is a nice looking rifle, hopefully it is going to be a shooter.

I have three other "Classics" in .270W, .257Roberts, .25-06.  At least one of those, is not a legitimate Classic, it had a Classic stock swapped out to it by it's previous owner.  All of those rifles are very good shooters.  I guess you can tell I am a fan of the Classic. 

So none of the rifles I have except the VLS and the soon to be CDL were purchased after 1990.  I'll let you know what I think of the new gun in a couple months.  (I do have a short action Classic stock on the shelf to put on it if I don't like the feel of the CDL stock.)

EJ


 

Offline tanoose

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Re: The Great Remington Debate
« Reply #68 on: November 01, 2006, 01:10:28 PM »
Well i still use a model 700BDL 30/06 i bought in 1971 with never a problem i promised this rifle to one of my boys who is now 12 i just got it back i sent it in for the safety modification so now he can unload the rifle with the safety on. In 1972 i bought a remington 760 gamemaster BDL with basket weave checkering in 30/06 , again with never a problem it now belongs to my 17 year old. In the spring of 2006 i bought myself a remington 750 semi auto in 35 Whelen and so far its great just like i expected it to be. We have several model 700's and two 742 remingtons used in our club and the guys just love them. So thats what i think of Remington. I can say the same for Ruger, Marlin and NEF.

Offline jro45

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Re: The Great Remington Debate
« Reply #69 on: February 08, 2007, 11:28:05 AM »
Almost all my rifles are Remington 700 Models

Offline Mr. Joe

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Re: The Great Remington Debate
« Reply #70 on: February 14, 2007, 03:14:15 AM »
Recently just got my first remington rifle, though i have been useing 1100s and 870s for years.  The 700 was my 8th or 9th rifle, but unquestionably my best.  The trigger was tuned to perfection...by me, and my God, do these things shoot!  I added another just yesterday.  They are the finest bold action rifle for any money that i have ever owned.  I could not be more happy with my remington products...fit and finsh has also been good on all my examples.
I am not afraid to make an example out of you

Offline NONYA

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Re: The Great Remington Debate
« Reply #71 on: February 14, 2007, 10:09:15 AM »
just shot some 100 and 200 yard groups out of my 700 bdl yesterday with a new 150 gr load,every time i get serious and put it on paper i am impressed by how accurate it is,there may be some more expensive rifles out there but NONE of them shoot any better than my 7mag from the custom shop at REmington arms.
If it aint fair chase its FOUL,and illegal in my state!
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Offline lucky guy

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Re: The Great Remington Debate
« Reply #72 on: February 23, 2007, 04:49:02 PM »
I learned on a 512, my first 22 was a 514, now have a 34, a 513T and an older, cherry 552.  I've had a couple of other beehives along the way and a mountain rifle in 257AI (the one that got away).  All accurate, excellent rifles.   

I just got a new XR100 in 204 Ruger.  I had it out yesterday for the first time to sight it in, etc.  I shot 45 rounds of the HSM 40gr's.  At the end I had 2 - 5 shot groups at 3/4".  Not bad for the first few rounds in a new rifle.  I can't imagine it won't get better with a couple hundred rounds through the barrel and some handloads. 

I hear about declining quality but you can't prove it by this new Remington.  :)

Offline Argonaut

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Re: The Great Remington Debate
« Reply #73 on: February 25, 2007, 07:02:27 AM »
My first remington was a 512X sportsmaster that I bought new in the early 70's.  It had no serial number so the guy just put away the yellow form, took my money and said have a nice day. I killed alot of squirrels in Arkansas with that thing. I've had 870's 1100's (military skeet rangers use 1100's as loaners, talk about eating ammo!).  I had a m600 .308 (couldn't stand the floorplate/trigger guard) but is shot 1.25 at 100yards, and two older m700's one in .243 and one in .222 they both shoot great and I've had no problem with chambering but loading can be a bit a problem, I do have rounds pop out of the magazine if I don't take care to really locate them before i stop pushing them in.  This is doubly hard with the .222 because of the magazine block used because the cartridge it shorter than most others used in this action. But it is a heavy barrel BDL varmit model and it easy shoots .5 with handloads or walmart ammo.  I did have a problem  with the striker falling after the safety had been pushed off though. This is with the .222, not the .243. My .222 was made in 68, it has the paddle style safety short bolt shroud, aluminum but blate, very nice fit and finish. But someone had fooled with the trigger and had backed out the lower front screw quite a ways.  I cleaned the hole mechanisim with brake clean and accetone, reset it properly, and no problems since. But I was quite supprised to see the striker fall the first time.  Even with "empty" guns i was glad I always pracitice muzzle control!
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Offline wadevb1

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Re: The Great Remington Debate
« Reply #74 on: February 27, 2007, 05:31:12 AM »
I was reluctant to by a Reminton with so many negative reports as of late. I fell in love with the .204 700 LVSF and purchased one brand new on 2/14/07. I broke the barrel in as if it were a custom tube. I am unable to get better than two inch groups with Rem ammo and 1.75 groups with Hornandy ammo at 75 yards. The gun is a dud. My dad bought an ugly savage which shoots .5 moa or better with only a trigger upgrade. Reminton wants me to ship my .204 back for an evaluation.

I should've listened to my gut and went with a Tikka or Cooper.

No more Remingtons for me.

Offline lucky guy

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Re: The Great Remington Debate
« Reply #75 on: February 27, 2007, 09:44:02 AM »
That sucks.  I guess the question is whether you can make this one shoot cheaper than dumping it and starting over.  I'd sure try every ammo I could get my hands on and put at least a couple of hundred rounds through it before I gave up on it.  I was ready to scrap a 204 barrel on an H&R, but after about 225 - 250 rounds it came in pretty well with the 32 grain rounds. 

Of course, that was an $90 barrel.  We all expect better from the 700 LVSF.  Don't they test fire these rifles?   

Offline luv2shoot

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Re: The Great Remington Debate
« Reply #76 on: March 02, 2007, 02:58:16 PM »
I've got 11 788's great shooters everyone.  Extremely crappy safety though.
Had a 700 ML, nothing but problems from the get-go Had a burr in barrel that took 3 shipments back to Remington before they fixedit.  Accidental discharge when safety was flipped off.  Never shot myself or anyone else. Did kill a deer that I never touched the trigger on. :o
2-870 express magnums 1 is a decent gun with that joke of a recoil pad that is hopelessy stuck up inside the stock. why can't they fix this?  The other I sold because it hung low brass shells with regularity 1 in 3.  Sent it back twice.  CS had never seen that problem before although this was the 8th gun that my dealer had sent back for that same reason.  fInally found someone who wanted it worse than me. 
Guess I'm a 788 fanatic, but you can keep the rest.  By the way My Browning A-Bolt requires you disengage the safety when bolting the action.  never had a misfire with it
If it Feels Good, Shoot it Again!!!!

Offline *ROCK-MAN*

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Re: The Great Remington Debate
« Reply #77 on: March 04, 2007, 01:57:54 PM »
Remington-Hmmmmmmmm lemme see
The first deer rifle my dad ever bought me was a Model 700 in 243.The only way to describe that rifle is "SWEEEEET"
Started out open sighted and later dad put me a redfield 4pwr scope on it.Was deadly accurate either way.Of course my eyes were a little better back then.OK lets skip about 35 years of me hunting with nothing but a remington.Shotguns & Rifles.Right now in my gun cabinet I have 1-Rem Mdl 700 in 30-06(my baby 1979) 1-Howa Lightening in 270(Wifey's baby)hey I figured if they was making the Vangards couldn't be to bad.It's a shooter and heck of a deal at the gunshow used of course. 1-Rem 600 Mohawk in 243(Daughters baby given by my dad) 1-Rem Mdl 100 in 12ga.(Wifey's baby) 1-Rem Mdl 870 in 20ga(Daughters baby) 1 Win semi auto in 12ga (mine but wish I had an 1100)  :( I sent the 06' in to Remington for the safety modification and they replaced the trigger assembley at no cost.I never see myself owning any other rifle as it works for all my hunting needs.Alas I have no experience with any of the newer Models and doubt I ever will.
Walk softly,keep the wind in your face and watch your backtrail.

Offline NONYA

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Re: The Great Remington Debate
« Reply #78 on: March 05, 2007, 06:30:08 AM »
You cant beat them for the $,even that ugly ass 710 shoots like a champ,i tried to talk my buddy out of buying a 710 in 300 wm because i dont like thier looks but the dam thing is a SHOOTER.
If it aint fair chase its FOUL,and illegal in my state!
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Offline eye shot

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Re: The Great Remington Debate
« Reply #79 on: March 08, 2007, 10:01:16 AM »
           I just wonder if some of these accidents didn't happen because of people asjusting there triggers to light like I did? My .17 BDL discharged chuck hunting- muzzle in the air because I had the trigger to light and the sear broke. Anyways my 1971 .17BDL Remington was a tack driver out of the box and still is to this day. It is pure factory with 1971 3x9 Redfield Widefield mounted low. This gun will shoot .25" groups at 100yrds and has for thirty six years! I also have two 1100's that I think is the best auto shotgun ever built, and one 870. Oh and a 1964, my first gun a Remington Nylon 11 bolt action .22 great shooter.
RIP Mike. Died on July 14th, around 2am, with his family at his side, he went peacefully to be with god.

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Offline Myron_Holley

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Re: The Great Remington Debate
« Reply #80 on: March 09, 2007, 02:07:37 AM »
  ;D Many folks have the Remington, and love them. They sell tons of them. K MART, WALL MART, ETC. All so they carry the ammo for them. If you like it and it shoots good stay with it. But all so remember that. Many of the rifles have a defect in the safty where it can go off if  Jard hard on but plate.  >:(Many accedents have happened this way. Old Win 94's had the same problem with the sears untill changed, Yet more deer are hunted with the old tried and true game getter. Most Gun dealers carry them and will sell them but ask most and again I said most they will try to get you to buy something else. The Remington service department is terrable. :o Only one worse is Savage, If you have the Rem auto stay with the Rem low cost ammo as there all so low volicety. Rails in them will not take quality ammo with high volicetys for long. When the rails go the gun is junk.  8)REMINGTON SERVICE will sell you a new gun at suggest retail but will not fix as they can not. (sub standard steel or stamped sheet metal. }  :D In My 45 years of gun oner ship and sales. [Very sucessful by the way.] In the begining had several Rem shotguns and rifles, Rem ammo and Rem outer gear.  :)Was Happy and sold lots of it.   :oThen my 742 adl would not eject correctly.  Sent to service dept and got the replacement song and dance.   :P Thought to my self just one gun. Later had a friend with rifle that had a flaw in chamber of his favorit 06 rifle. Sent that to service dept. Same dance. Whooo.  :-[  Then had customers with the problem with the saftys on rifles going off if droped. Yep it does happen some times. Same thing with service deptment. Auto shotguns had some problems with the rails but not many on the autos.  ;D all my customers were happy with the pumps in both shotgun and rifle. I have a old 22 my dad had in the early 1900's I kept but sold all my REMINGTON's rifles to folks who like them. Trashed the 742 adl for parts. Had the kids shot up my remington ammo at the range. (Note they had fun asi it was lots} Replaced all my outer gear with other brands. Once That was done seen the quality of the other Brands and KICK MY SELF FOR ALL THE YEARS I USED REMINGTON. NOTE. TRYED SAVAGE AND EVEN WORSE SERVICE DEPTMENT THAN REMENGTON. [ I do have lots of guns and have hunted world wide but most in U.S.A.} Many folks have very good luck with both. and again love them Thats great But. I Will not sell Remington products at all to any one. Many are very dangerous and sub standard in quality. But again this is me and my experance with them.

Offline lucky guy

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Re: The Great Remington Debate
« Reply #81 on: March 10, 2007, 06:52:10 AM »
I learned on a 512, my first 22 was a 514, now have a 34, a 513T and an older, cherry 552.  I've had a couple of other beehives along the way and a mountain rifle in 257AI (the one that got away).  All accurate, excellent rifles.   

I just got a new XR100 in 204 Ruger.  I had it out yesterday for the first time to sight it in, etc.  I shot 45 rounds of the HSM 40gr's.  At the end I had 2 - 5 shot groups at 3/4".  Not bad for the first few rounds in a new rifle.  I can't imagine it won't get better with a couple hundred rounds through the barrel and some handloads. 

I hear about declining quality but you can't prove it by this new Remington.  :)


I've been shooting shooting in the wind and snow the last week or two to get some rounds through the barrel.  I finally got a quiet day yesterday and got a chance to try a few groups.  I stopped after the third one!!!  I guess this Remington is ok!!  The ammo is the HSM 32gr's.

Kind of takes away any excuses for missing doesn't it!!





Offline NONYA

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Re: The Great Remington Debate
« Reply #82 on: March 10, 2007, 02:49:29 PM »
You must have gotten lucky and got one of them RARE good shootin Remington  ;D,every remmy myself and my family own shoots great,I guess we are all lucky!
If it aint fair chase its FOUL,and illegal in my state!
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Offline wadevb1

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Re: The Great Remington Debate
« Reply #83 on: March 31, 2007, 02:13:56 AM »
In response to my earlier post on my LVSF .204 not shooting well at all. It just arrived back on my door step from Remmy. A note in the box stated "barrel lapped and crowned." I managed to get a few rounds down range and it seems to be a 1/2 inch shooter now.

Offline sniperVLS

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Re: The Great Remington Debate
« Reply #84 on: April 05, 2007, 02:16:40 AM »
In response to my earlier post on my LVSF .204 not shooting well at all. It just arrived back on my door step from Remmy. A note in the box stated "barrel lapped and crowned." I managed to get a few rounds down range and it seems to be a 1/2 inch shooter now.

Excellent  ;D

Offline NONYA

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Re: The Great Remington Debate
« Reply #85 on: April 05, 2007, 06:00:17 AM »
I shot some new 154 gr Hornadays out of the 7 mag 2 days ago,first five shot group could be covered(meaning all the holes would be covered or partially covered) with a quarter,this group was shot off a bipod laying on the back porch,you can buy a $2000 dollar custom that wont shoot any better than that,for the money they cant be beat!Im ordering my first remington inline today ,the new Genesis inline,looks like a great muzzleloader,ill make a report here in a couple weeks!As far as the faulty safteys that problem was fixed with a design chnge YEARS ago and they will remod any of the older guns for free,they are NOt dangerous,thats what the competetors and the STORE OWNERS who sell thier competetors want people to believe.
If it aint fair chase its FOUL,and illegal in my state!
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Offline The Gamemaster

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Re: The Great Remington Debate
« Reply #86 on: April 09, 2007, 05:12:35 AM »
First off - the Remington trigger issue.
My dad owns a 721 30 / 06 that he bought while in the Navy in 1955.
It was a sorry excuse of a gun that would not hit the broad side of a barn two days in a row.
After much work, he finally got it to shoot well enough at 100 yards to be able to call it a hunting rifle.  The stock was the main culprit.

My dad also bought a 870 Wing master 20 Ga shotgun, now it was a pretty good gun.  But the heat treat was no good on the barrel.  For some reason he used the barrel to dispatch rabbits and after whopping a couple of rabbits on the head, the barrel bent.

He ended up putting it in the crook of a tree to straighted it out and after the season was over he had 3 inches of the barrel cut off and a poly choke installed.

Remington paid for a class action suit for their 12 Ga and Model 1100, but did not do anything about the 20 ga.

I believe that after 1965 their quality improved and they made a good product as a whole until about 1980 when the accountants took over and started changing the product lines to cheaper manufactured guns.

I hunted with the 721 for many years before I bought my own first gun, a Remington 760 Game master 35 Rem. made about 1965.

One day while unloading the 721 it did discharge, probably due to the fact that I had gloves on and it was cold outside and you had to take the safety off to work the bolt to remove the ammo.
I almost shot my dads new Chevy Blazer / the camp / or one of the other people hunting with me.
Luckily I had the gun pointed towards the ground in front of the Blazer and it shot under the Blazer and did not go far enough to penetrate the wall of the basement of the camp.

The extractor clip broke because of poor design, force, and because of shoddy materials.

A clip broke in my model 1100 shotgun and for a matter of about $5 a qualified gunsmith fixed it good as new.

When it came time for me to buy my first new gun it was a Model 870 Special Purpose - Super Magnum 12 Ga 3 1/2 inch synthetic.  I took it apart once to clean it, and something with the action rods sprung and I had about a year of problems before I took it to the same gunsmith that fixed my model 1100 and for about $40 he fixed it good as new.

The pump action on my 870 was very gritty, mainly due to the fact that they quit bluing the actions and put that crappy matte finish on it instead - to save money.

Since then, I will not buy a new Remington - even if you gave it to me.

All my new guns have been Browning's since then and I have only had one problem with Browning since then that has not been resolved on the spot.  That being a small piece of aluminum, in the receiver that came out of my Gold Hunter shotgun.  Instead of putting it in my pocket, when I had to field strip my shotgun in the middle of a food plot in the middle of nowhere on a pheasant hunt.
I dropped it on the ground and the gun shop where I bought the gun at said that there was nothing wrong with the gun.

My Browning Pump rifle has many flaws on it and the reason why they quit making it was because the action comes open when you put a gloved finger in the trigger guard to shoot the rifle.
But I will say this about it, the forearm cracked and I sent the gun back to Browning and they put a new forearm and stock on it for free.  The wood on the replacement stock was even better than the original and I am very satisfied with their service.

You cannot sell guns in Wal Mart for $60 less than wholesale cost in a gun shop and tell me that it was not a  inferior product to begin with.  Wal Mart is what is killing Remington right now.
If you want to sell to them, be my guest.  But I refuse to buy a gun off some pimply nosed kid that does not know his butt from a hole in the ground.  There is no returns unless the gun breaks  in half and there is no gunsmith to repair it if it is not right.

More guns are ruined by BUTCHERS that think they know what they are doing - but don't!

Would you trust your scope to be mounted by Uncle Fred or Aunt Betty, who is so dumb that they could cross thread a fire hydrant cap two out of three times.  There is just some people that just refuses to pay someone for something they think they can do themselves.  Then after they mess it all up, wonders why it wouldn't work.

Offline alsaqr

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Re: The Great Remington Debate
« Reply #87 on: April 16, 2007, 08:40:42 AM »
"Almost all my rifles are Remington 700 Models"

Ditto for me.  Mine are all left hand ones and i've never had a bit of trouble with any of them.  My .308  Model 700 BDL with floated barrel consistently makes 1" groups at 200 yards with my friend shooting it.  But not with me shooting it.   

Offline alsaqr

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Re: The Great Remington Debate
« Reply #88 on: April 16, 2007, 08:48:09 AM »
"You cannot sell guns in Wal Mart for $60 less than wholesale cost in a gun shop and tell me that it was not a  inferior product to begin with.  Wal Mart is what is killing Remington right now.
If you want to sell to them, be my guest.  But I refuse to buy a gun off some pimply nosed kid that does not know his butt from a hole in the ground.  There is no returns unless the gun breaks  in half and there is no gunsmith to repair it if it is not right."

i could care less about the wholesale price in a gun shop.  Could also care less about that pimply faced kid who sells it to me.  The fact is that the Remington guns sold by Wal-Mart are the same ones that you pay a premium price for at a gun shop.   All my newer guns have come from Wal_Mart.   They are all excellent guns.   The rifles all shoot minute of angle or less.   Saved a bundle by buying them at Wal-Mart. 

Offline oldelkhunter

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Re: The Great Remington Debate
« Reply #89 on: June 11, 2007, 11:01:44 AM »
 I have owned/own  probably close to 50 Remington 700's from varmint models thru Custom shop models.  Out of all of them had problems with 3 of them which would be considered major (Model FS in 7 rem mag, Custom KS in 7 rem mag, SPS in 25-06) after the last one I swore I wouldn't buy another.  Nothing in their lineup now makes me want to run out and buy one but I did manage to pickup a really nice NIB 700 BDL SS in 7 SAUM a few weeks ago and am rather pleased with it even though it has the wicked ISS. All in All some of the most accurate consistent rifles I have owned some with minor glitches and some with no glitches... They just need to mind their QC and they'll be fine.  I have seen just way too many hunters  that have shot game all over the world with the same beat up old Remington to think otherwise.
"Be thankful that we're not getting all the government that we're paying for." Will Rogers