416 shells stick after shot

[jro45]

I took my Rem 416 to the range to shoot off a box of reloads. They were
loaded to the max 400 gr bullets going 2454fps. Each time I shot one I had
to hit the bolt handle until it came out. Why were they sticking is my ?

[Yukon Jack]

Sounds like you may be pushing the pressure too high for this rifle.  Back off the powder charge a bit.

Did you work up to the maximum in the manual, or start there?  Each rifle is different and you should approach any load carefully.  Due to varying tolerances from one gun to the other, what may seem to be an okay load in one, may produce extreme pressure in the other.

Be careful and work up to those maximums carefully.  Stop when you begin seeing pressure signs or velocity starts hitting the max listed.

[Lawdog]

Pressure goes up as the temperature goes up.  Cut back on the powder charge.  a sticky bolt is one of the signs of excessive pressure.  Lawdog
 

[Redhawk1]

I think Yukon Jack and Lawdog have it pegged. Shooting in the upper limits of the load in the heat like you were, will do that.  I live here in Delaware also and today it was not only extremely hot but extremely humid. You may want to lighten your load up a little. Good shooting and let us know how it works out.  

[Lone Star]

You may want to lighten your load up a little.

Actually, he had better drop down 3 to 5 grains.  That's a big case and one or two grains will still mean high pressures.  Just because a load is listed in a manual doesn't mean it is safe in your firearm with your components.  Too many shooters just go to the max load in the book and put up a box....wrong!  Always start low and work up; this accounts for temperature like mentioned above, but it also takes into acount your particular barrel, brass, powder lot and primers.  All these effect a load's performance and pressure.

New reloaders should read the first 100 pagesin the maual before they ever get to the load data.  Had the poster done this he'd know what the problem was.

You certianly don't need 2457 fps with a 400-grain bullet for anything on this contenent.  If you can't do it with 2350 fps, then I'd take up another sport.  :wink:

[Redhawk1]

You may want to lighten your load up a little.

Actually, he had better drop down 3 to 5 grains.  That's a big case and one or two grains will still mean high pressures.  Just because a load is listed in a manual doesn't mean it is safe in your firearm with your components.  Too many shooters just go to the max load in the book and put up a box....wrong!  Always start low and work up; this accounts for temperature like mentioned above, but it also takes into acount your particular barrel, brass, powder lot and primers.  All these effect a load's performance and pressure.

New reloaders should read the first 100 pagesin the maual before they ever get to the load data.  Had the poster done this he'd know what the problem was.

You certianly don't need 2457 fps with a 400-grain bullet for anything on this contenent.  If you can't do it with 2350 fps, then I'd take up another sport.  :wink:

How true Lone Star. I always start at the bottom of the load data. I always seem to find a load in the middle that is accurate. Just because a certain round will hold a lot of powder does not mean one has to go to the max to make it work. Accuracy is what is more important than speed. That is why I don't get caught up in the coronagraph thing.  

[Mike C]

You may be over pressure, but maybe not.  I have a .378 weatherby that if there is the slightest trace of oil in the chamber the brass will stick with factory ammo.  If I clean the chamber with an evaporating solvent, like engine starting fluid (ether) the cases drop out.  I have seen more than a few rifles give sticky extraction that have been fired after long term storage where the preservative oil wasn't removed first.  

I do agree with starting at the bottom of published data and working up though.  A load that is just fine in my rifle may be over pressure in yours.

Mike C

[jro45]

Thanks guys, thats what I thought so I droped my loads down in all my 416 loaded shells. I've been shooting this rifle for about 5 years she was ok until I took the load up a couple grains, so now its back where it was before.

[Ramrod]

Hey guys, this is exactly the reason the Brits have always loaded their .416 Rigby (and all the other dangerous game cartridges) to much lower pressures than American handloaders, around 40,000 C.U.P. or less I think. I have been told it gets pretty hot in Africa, and a stuck shell can get you killed.

[jro45]

Ramrod:  I know the heat raises pressure but what I had done was to load my Rem 416's 400gr bullets to a couple grs over what I normally would because of something I read in a load book.  But thanks for your info.

[crow_feather]

jro45,

Out of curiosity, have you tried the 300 grain barnes x bullets? They shoot three inside an inch with 81 gr. of RL 15 and that is well below max.  My chrono shows them moving at over 2600 fps.  It takes a bit of punch out of the recoil.  

C F

[jro45]

crow_feather,
   No I haven't tried barnes 300 gr bullets. I tried barnes 350gr bullets but they put so much copper into my barrel that it took at least 50 or 60 copper remover patches that I will not shoot any barnes bullets in any rifles of mine again. Thanks for asking tho

[Redhawk1]

jro45,

Out of curiosity, have you tried the 300 grain barnes x bullets? They shoot three inside an inch with 81 gr. of RL 15 and that is well below max.  My chrono shows them moving at over 2600 fps.  It takes a bit of punch out of the recoil.  

C F

crow_feather, I use them in my 416 Rigby. The accuracy is great. I will be going on a Water buffalo hunt at the end of August and will let you know how well they perform. The little bit of copper fouling is easy for me to remove and the accuracy and known performance of the Barnes bullets seem like a fair trade off.  

[Lawdog]

crow_feather,
   No I haven't tried barnes 300 gr bullets. I tried barnes 350gr bullets but they put so much copper into my barrel that it took at least 50 or 60 copper remover patches that I will not shoot any barnes bullets in any rifles of mine again. Thanks for asking tho

Cooper fouling a problem then switch to the Barnes 350 or 400 gr. Banded Solids and TSX bullets.  Better accuracy, less fouling are just two reason to make the change.  Lawdog
 

[jro45]

I'll check them out Lawdog. I like how accurate they are. If they could coat them with something I'm sure it would make alot of people happy.

[jro45]

Redhawk1,   Wheres the water buffalo hunt at [ what state? ] Will you take your 416?  Is George going to?  I've heard of a hunt like that down in South America. Good Luck!

[Redhawk1]

Redhawk1,   Wheres the water buffalo hunt at [ what state? ] Will you take your 416?  Is George going to?  I've heard of a hunt like that down in South America. Good Luck!

We are going to Brady Ranch in Florida at the end of August. I will be using my Encore in 416 Rigby. George is going as well as my son. They are going after Axis Deer. After I get back I will post a report.  

[crow_feather]

At Wallyworld, they have a foam bore cleaner that cleans out the copper without brushing.  Just foam your bore, wait one half hour and put patches through till they come out clean.  Neat stuff.  


I believe that they have water/cape buffalo hunts in texas.  

C F

[crow_feather]

Redhawk 1,

I've come across Ol Buff before.  I didn't have my rifle with me.  I was alone, but I wasn't afraid.  I stood before him at 20 yards, stared into his eyes, daring him to charge.  He looked at me with hate in his eyes and I just laughed. Ha Ha Ha.  Then the zoo keeper told me it was closing time and I had to go home.

C F

[Redhawk1]

Good one crow_feather.  

[jro45]

crow_feather: There's no Walley World around hear.  
 
I've tried some foam I got around here and it didn't work. After it did its thing I ran a copper removing patch down the boar and found there was alot of copper still in my boar. So I have decided that the way to remove copper from my barrels is the same way I have always done back and forth with a copper removing patch. If someone came out with something
that worked I'm more that willing to try it .

[Redhawk1]

crow_feather: There's no Walley World around hear.  
 
I've tried some foam I got around here and it didn't work. After it did its thing I ran a copper removing patch down the boar and found there was alot of copper still in my boar. So I have decided that the way to remove copper from my barrels is the same way I have always done back and forth with a copper removing patch. If someone came out with something
that worked I'm more that willing to try it .

Walley World is Wal-Mart.     We have several.  :-D

[Lawdog]

I'll check them out Lawdog. I like how accurate they are. If they could coat them with something I'm sure it would make alot of people happy.

I used to use the Barnes XLC's in my .416 Rigby with good results but the TSX is more accurate.  What little copper fouling from the TSX it is easier to clean the bore than removing the blue moly.  Velocity is almost identical.  Lawdog
 

[jro45]

Redhawk1
 That foam I tried I got at Walmart. My hunting partner Fil said it really works so I got some and tried it. He hasn't really said any more about it, but it didn't work for me unless I'm not doing it right. I just followed directions.

[quickdtoo]

I've been using WipeOut for about a year and more recently, Outers Foaming Bore Cleaner due to it's availability locally at Walmart. They both work extremely well. I used to be a dyed in the wool Hoppes and Hoppes BR user for 45yrs or so but these two are much better and easier. A little trick that I've learned is if you invert the rifle about half way through the cleaning cycle so the trigger is up, the top half of the bore gets as much of the treatment as the bottom half since the foam liquifies after a while and settles in the bottom of the bore and has less effect on the top half. Doing this usually results in a clean bore with one application of the foam and an overnight cleaning cycle.

Tim

[jro45]

quickdtoo:   I'll try it again next time I clean my rifle barrel. Thanks for the information.

[jro45]

Well I sighted in my 416 Rem at 150 yds with no problems. I used 2gr less. in my loads. I don't know why the this one load book said to use 2 more grains for their bullets. When 2 less is what all the others said.

[crow_feather]

There are a bunch of different reasons that one book might be different.  It pays to check the rifle or test barrel they used........and also the make and type of bullet.  And most books advise to drop 10% and work up........for good reason.

What bothers me a lot is that there is a IMR, XMR, and an H in 4350 powder.  It's an invite to a busted rifle.

I try to check at least three sources befor I settle on a load.  If the first case of the lowest load sticks, I go home.

Best of luck with your thumblicker.

C F

[longgun]

I built up a 416 remington about a year and half ago,  and yesterday a friend came over and we shot it for the first time.  400 gr hornady and 75 gr of IMR 4064.   This baby is  a "three step" gun for sure.  Between the two of of we fired 18 rounds.  That was enough.

After cleaning it,  I looked down the bore and could see copper streaks on the riflings.  Took me about 45 minutes of scrubbing with Shooters Choice and Sweets to get the copper removed.  I'm heading for Walmart for some of that foaming copper remover.   Next  will be looking for some 300 gr bullets.

This is the 3 rd 416 that I've built up over the years,  but about 6 years since I actually fired one  and I don't remember the recoil being as bad.
The 416 is one awsome gun.   I can't imagine anyone ever wanting a larger or more powerful weapon than the 416 Remington.  According to Hodgdon's manual  I was still 5 gr below max with powder,  but I probably will not load any hotter than this.  Don

[crow_feather]

Try 81 gr of RL 15 with the 400 gr bullet.  It also works well with the 300 and 350 gr Barnes bullets.  Since the 300 gr goes out at 2600 with 81 gr, I do not need to go higher although I understand 2900 fps is possible.

C F