.308 vs. 300 mag

[bearblade]

I was originally planning on getting a .308 bolt action, but the more I look into it, the .300 Winchester Magnum is looking better and better.  The only hang-up I have is whether the 300 mag is overkill for whitetail or not.  I was thinking a Model 700.  Any insight on this would be very helpful.  Thank you very much.

[dukkillr]

I killed a nice buck with a 700 in .300 win mag 2 years ago.  I used the same gun to kill 2 elk and 2 caribou in the last 5 years.  Great gun, it's not overkill.  Both caribou and one elk dropped.  The whitetail and the other elk went less than 100 yards.  All were 1 shot kills.

[victorcharlie]

The .300 Winchester Magnum is far more gun than required to kill a whitetail deer.  The .300 winchester magnum will kick quite a bit more than the .308 as well.  Unless your expecting most of your shots to be over 400 yards there is absolutely no need for the magnum........unless you want to punish yourself everytime you pull the trigger.

Just MHO, yes, the .300 magnum would be what I consider "overkill" for deer.  My first choice would be a 30.06 as it will do anything the .300 wincherster magnum will do with less recoil, then a .308 or 7mm/08.

Dead is dead.........

[Lawdog]

Do yourself a favor and forget the .300 Win. Mag.  Chances are you'll never need it and may even regret buying it after you experience the recoil.  Lawdog
 

[dukkillr]

while there is no question that what they are saying is true about recoil, i can tell you that once your gun is sighted in you'll never feel the recoil again.  I've never once put the crosshairs on an animal, squeezed the trigger, and noticed the recoil.  

My experience has been that a .300 win mag also does similar or less meat damage than an a 30.06 (i have one in pre-64 70) because of the increased velocity (assuming similar bullets).  

I look at the .300 win mag like i look at the 3 1/2 12ga turkey gun.  Sure they kick, but they give a little extra margin for the unknown, and i never feel the recoil in the field anyway.  Now if you're talking about firing a bunch of rounds at the range it's a whole different story.

I would also note that when i got the .300 i had no intention of elk or caribou hunting but bought a gun that would give me some options for other species.  You never know what you might end up doing.

[Redhawk1]

If I was getting a new gun and my choices were .308 or a 300 Win Mag. I would get the 300 Win-Mag. The recoil in my opinion is not bad and like posted before, you will not notice it when you pull the trigger on any game. At the bench you may feel the difference. But if your intent for the gun is hunting and not target or paper shooting then the choice is obvious.  Oh by the way I have the 300 Win Mag and would never even consider the 308 in my collection, not that there is any thing wrong with it, I just think the 300 Win Mag would offer me a better selection as an all around gun. JMHO  

[mr.frosty]

I have the 300 wsm and am very fond of it!
On the bench after a few rounds give myself and the gun a break,
in the woods recoil is the last thing I think about and plus during the cold part of the season my heavy coat helps on the kick.
I looked at the 308 and the 30-06 and the 300 winmag but chose the
shorty.Groups a 3leaf clover at 100 yards and that tickles me silly!
Can be loaded light or heavy depending on your taste but for me
I like the 150 grain ballistic tips and the 180  grain power points
there factory slugs I know but I aint reloading yet either.

[bearblade]

My Uncle has a 300 Win Mag, and the kick isn't too bad.  I was leaning towards the 300 win mag because we have a slight bear problem up at my grandpa's hunting camp.  I may end up getting both eventually, but I was deciding what to start my colection with.  I'm really leaning towards the 300 now, thanks alot guys.

[Redhawk1]

My Uncle has a 300 Win Mag, and the kick isn't too bad.  I was leaning towards the 300 win mag because we have a slight bear problem up at my grandpa's hunting camp.  I may end up getting both eventually, but I was deciding what to start my colection with.  I'm really leaning towards the 300 now, thanks alot guys.

Good choice.  

[randyb]

Either will work for deer, but the .308 is cheaper to shoot in facotry ammo, is easier on the recoil, and just a really fun round.  Given the choice though...I currently own a .308 and not the .300 WM, (my brother in law does and uses it for deer in Georgia), but if I had it to do over I'd split the difference and go with the 30-06.

[Norseman112]

Well I have 300 win mag it shoots very tight groups and I have used it for white tails and I didn't ruin any meat because I don't eat the ribs anyway.
The kick isn't so bad either. I also use my 25-06 alot for deer, but I do grab the 300 once in a while. Just depends on my mood. The 300 is a great caliber though.

Norse

[jro45]

I have a 300 Win Mag and have shot deer and at 200 yds you may ruin some meat with it at least I did once. The recoil isn't anything to worry about. I shoot mine at the range on a bench withour any protection for my shoulder. It doesn't bother me shooting the 180 or the 200 gr bullets.
It is one of my favorates

[mangulator]

Go with a .308 or 30-06 and save yourself from the recoil. I have shot many elk and deer with a .308 and 30-06 most have dropped dead in their tracks. I have friends with 300 Win. Mags. and I out shoot them. Most of hunters in our elk camp carry .308's and 30-06's.

[Redhawk1]

Go with a .308 or 30-06 and save yourself from the recoil. I have shot many elk and deer with a .308 and 30-06 most have dropped dead in their tracks. I have friends with 300 Win. Mags. and I out shoot them. Most of hunters in our elk camp carry .308's and 30-06's.

From what I gather from your post is, correct me if I am wrong. Either you can out shot your buddies with there 300 Win Mag's or the 308 and 30-06 can out shoot the 300 Win Mag. Which one is it?

I would love to shoot agents you with my 300 Win Mag and you with your 308 or 30-06.  :-D

[bearblade]

I was thinking the 300 WM mainly because I may end up drawing for a bear tag because there's a bear problem up at my grandpa's hunting camp.  Plus my friend was planning on taking me Russian boar hunting in Indiana.  I figured the 300 WM gives me a few options with these slightly more dangerous game.

[roper]

One of the things I always factor in is what range am I going to be shooting.  I hunt some fairly open country for deer and elk so I need a cal that get pretty good velcoity and for me that is a mag rifle.  You can build a custom rifle same twist in 308,30-06 and 300mag and that will all shoot pretty good groups thing that separtes them is case capacity and velocity and the 300mag is better since it retains more energy for hunting.  I've got a custom 300mag and it get groups in the .4's my tight neck 308 is somewhat better.  I like the case capacity of the 300mag for heavier bullets also.  Well good luck.

[mangulator]

Redhawk1,  Lets put it this way; if you chose 30-06 or the .308 or 300 win mag. you would not go wrong. Shot placement means everything.  

[Redhawk1]

Redhawk1,  Lets put it this way; if you chose 30-06 or the .308 or 300 win mag. you would not go wrong. Shot placement means everything.  

I agree,all would work fine. But for my money, I would get the 300 Win Mag. But that's just me.  

[Eddie in Delta]

Howdy everyone,

My first (and thus far, only) rifle is a .300 Win Mag.  Would I get it again?  No.  It's much more accurate than I am and everything works perfectly, but I would not buy it as my first rifle again.  Why?  Because it made me flinch.  Still does.  I had shot guns before, but by and large they were .22's.  I'm getting to the point where I can shoot 1.5-2" groups off my bipod, even with my slight flinch, but if I had it to do over again, I would get a smaller cartridge.

If you've grown up shooting big guns, well, you could probably handle it.  I didn't, and I'm getting over the flinch, but I probably would have been better off with a 30-06.

Eddie

[Redhawk1]

I have seen people flinch when they shoot 22-250's. But what I see more is people anticipating the recoil and pushing the rifle prior to recoil.

[Jimi]

My favorite rifle is a .300 Weatherby Magnum, which is very similar to the .300 Winchester Magnum... the key difference being the Weatherby is better suited to 200 and 220 grain bullets.

I think the term "over kill" is probably used by people who are sensitive to recoil. Otherwise, I don't understand how an animal can be "too dead."

But the gist of people's comments are valid, a .300 Magnum is going to kick considerably harder than a .308... but it kicks harder at both ends.  Will a .308 kill a deer or a black bear? Sure... and quite capably.

I went through a similar decision process, but once I started shooting and hunting with the magnum I was very happy, and over time I am just more and more satisfied with my decision. It is just one helluva killer. Never had, seen, or heard of a caliber that drops so much game right in its tracks. And not being one that favors having to track wounded game, I appreciate that.

If you are recoil sensitive, get the .308 and you'll be satisfied. If not, get the Magnum and know that you can't do any better.

As for the M700... I wouldn't piss hard for one. They're unsafe and I don't even like hunting with someone that hunts with one... though they are reasonably accurate.

[dukkillr]

careful now, even first hand knowledge of problems with a remmington will get you called a liar and worse here.  there are people who refuse to believe their favorite company made a dangerous product, or they'll blame you.

I have a 700, i had the problem everyone describes, i got it fixed, and i like it now.  according to many here i must have imagined it firing each time the bolt closed or the safety was flipped.

[Jimi]

Right on dukkillr. Admitting that one has a problem is the first step towards recovery... isn't that what they say?

Good on your for customizing your rifle into something that you can feel safe with and truly enjoy. There's nothing better.

No, wait... there is something better... but this is a family oriented bulliten board ;-)

[Big Paulie]

Dear Folks,

    I love the way that the guys who are advocating the .300 Mag start out by saying "the kick isn't TOO bad," or "the kick isn't SO bad," or  "once you sighted it in you will never FEEL the KICK again."    

     The .300 Winchester Mag kicks, and it kicks like heck.  It is a ridiculously high overkill for whitetail deer, mule deer, and black bear as well.  Put a 180 grain .308 Wincheser Silvertip into the torso of any black bear and it is going down and going down hard.

    Now, I realize that there are some guys who are not bothered by recoil, but that isn't the same as saying that a rifle cartridge doesn't have bad recoil.   Look a the charts for free recoil energy.  I guessing that the .308 Winchester is somewhere around 18 foot pounds of recoil, and that the .300 Winchester Mag is about what, 32 foot pounds of recoil?   Double the recoil?  Deafening sound.  High priced ammo.  And for what?  An effective killing range of an extra 75 yards or so?

     If you live out West, and routinely take shots at over 300 yards, and are built pretty hefty and can soak up that recoil, and you can actually shoot a magnum without flinching, and you practice enough so that you can easily and consistently hit a pie plate from a sitting position with the magnum at over 350 yards,  then I would definitely say that the .300 Winchester Mag is the ticket for you.  (Not one in 50 hunters can do this.)     If you don't meet any of the foregoing, then it is not.  For the most experienced hunters, the .308 Winchester is more versatile and more efficient than the .300 Winchester Mag.  You just shoot your game at 250 to 300 yards, instead of 300 to 375 yards.  It is that simple.

   For those who always yell Magnum when the subject of the terrifying black bear comes up, then I guess it is simply astounding that all of the hunters in the lower 48 weren't mauled to death before the .300 Mag was invented in  the late 1950s (or was it the early 1960s?).  Gosh, how did our grandfathers ever survive in those dangerous woods of the 1940s.

Big Paulie

[oso45-70]

big paulie

Not all Survived, Some needed more Gun.......Joe.........

[victorcharlie]

The method of determining overkill by sensitivity to recoil is an interesting one........and to think I based my opinion on physics!? :eek:  :eek:  :eek:  
 
1/2 mass X velocity squared = kinetic energy.  Mass x velocity = momentum.
 
There has been much work done by the army as well as the FBI, etc. on how much is enough.
 
Clearly, one does not need 3000+ foot lbs of energy for a deer.  The bullet will hit, and continue through the deer, (unless the bullet is a varmit bullet of light construction) and will only expend "X" energy inside the target.  Any thing left is wasted.  Overkill, to me, is a curve based on how much energy is left after the bullet is finished with the intended game or target.  The more the energy left over, the more the over kill.  The .300 Winchester Magnum, is capable of some serious energy and momentum.  I would suspect that not only would it kill a deer, but would also have plenty of energy left to do some real damage  the next county over.
 
That simple fact, in the days of lawyers and law suits, does more to convince me to use just more than the lightest legal caliber necessary to do the job at hand.  There are lots of hunters in the woods around here.  If I go with a heavy, slow round with a curve that drops like a rock after my normal shooting distance then I pray to be less like to kill one of you accidently.  None of you, or me for that matter, are worth the biggest Boone and Crockett rack ever.   Not only that, but unless I plea bargin, I'd have to explain to the DA why I need a .300 Magnum to shoot deer with!  I  feel less likely to be asked that question if hunting with a .35 Remington, or a 45.70, and if asked my answer would be "because it was the safest choice to deer hunt with".

I don't want to start a discussion about would you take this shot.........but sometimes we don't see the hunter over the hill in his tree stand.......or for that matter realize that the round will make it over the hill in the first place.
 
Eddie in the Delta:  Your  not the first one to figure this out........if I remember correctly we gave you the same advice a short time ago......Life is not about if mine's bigger than yours......they both do the job......Use a sledge hammer if  your busting concrete.......use a 20 to 24 oz framing hammer to frame with.....us a light trim hammer for trim.......

That said, enjoy the Magnum!
 

[myronman3]

for the tasks your mention, the 308 is plenty enough rifle.   period.  

now if you have to have a cartridge with "magnum" in the name, go for the 300.  

not one of the critters you mention would know whether it was a 300 win or a 308 so long as you hit them right.

your choice...... :roll:

[Redhawk1]

Dear Folks,

    I love the way that the guys who are advocating the .300 Mag start out by saying "the kick isn't TOO bad," or "the kick isn't SO bad," or  "once you sighted it in you will never FEEL the KICK again."    

     The .300 Winchester Mag kicks, and it kicks like heck.  It is a ridiculously high overkill for whitetail deer, mule deer, and black bear as well.  Put a 180 grain .308 Wincheser Silvertip into the torso of any black bear and it is going down and going down hard.

    Now, I realize that there are some guys who are not bothered by recoil, but that isn't the same as saying that a rifle cartridge doesn't have bad recoil.   Look a the charts for free recoil energy.  I guessing that the .308 Winchester is somewhere around 18 foot pounds of recoil, and that the .300 Winchester Mag is about what, 32 foot pounds of recoil?   Double the recoil?  Deafening sound.  High priced ammo.  And for what?  An effective killing range of an extra 75 yards or so?

     If you live out West, and routinely take shots at over 300 yards, and are built pretty hefty and can soak up that recoil, and you can actually shoot a magnum without flinching, and you practice enough so that you can easily and consistently hit a pie plate from a sitting position with the magnum at over 350 yards,  then I would definitely say that the .300 Winchester Mag is the ticket for you.  (Not one in 50 hunters can do this.)     If you don't meet any of the foregoing, then it is not.  For the most experienced hunters, the .308 Winchester is more versatile and more efficient than the .300 Winchester Mag.  You just shoot your game at 250 to 300 yards, instead of 300 to 375 yards.  It is that simple.

   For those who always yell Magnum when the subject of the terrifying black bear comes up, then I guess it is simply astounding that all of the hunters in the lower 48 weren't mauled to death before the .300 Mag was invented in  the late 1950s (or was it the early 1960s?).  Gosh, how did our grandfathers ever survive in those dangerous woods of the 1940s.

Big Paulie

Also look at it like this, recoil is how one perceives it. I don't think the 300 Win Mag kicks much. That is my opinion. With that in mind, I also shoot a 375 H&H, a 416 Rigby and the recoil is more than the 300 Win Mag. But manageable. Not something you want to shoot all day at targets or ground hogs  :-D  Now if you want to know what makes me flinch, When I took my muzzle break of my 50BMG and pulled the trigger. Only did that once.    :eek:

[Todd1700]

I would also note that when i got the .300 i had no intention of elk or caribou hunting but bought a gun that would give me some options for other species. You never know what you might end up doing.

I've never bought into the get one gun to do everything argument as a reason to buy a large magnum. First, who the hell wants just one gun? Where's the fun in that? Second, if you can afford the expense of elk, caribou, bear and moose hunting then odds are you can afford a rifle specifically suited to the purpose. If you plan to hunt a lot of deer then get a caliber specifically suited to them as well. And besides a 308 will also kill all of the aforementioned animals out to a range well beyond where 90 percent of hunters should be taking a shot anyway. Yes a 300 mag will extend your range but it's a catch 22 situation for most people. The extra power of the 300 mag gives you the potential to kill at a longer range but the added recoil and muzzle blast deteriorates the average persons ability to shoot accurately at those extended ranges. Although I'm sure all the magum guys will blast back claiming to be able to pick lint off a gnats ass at 400 yards with their 300 win mags trust me in the real non-internet world thats rarely the case. Many (myself included) hunt with a bow which requires you to get within 45 yards of an animal. And we kill game every year. Anyone that can't get within a 308's range of an animal probably should switch to golf as a hobby. A 300 win mag is waaaay overkill for whitetails. Will it do the job? Yep, but then so would a 50 caliber BMG. Why not get one of those in case you decide to hunt Rhino's one day. See how ridiculous this type of argument can get? The 308 with half the recoil and tons of surplus ammo around would be way more pleasent and cheaper to shoot.

I don't understand how an animal can be "too dead."

And I can't understand how an animal can be "MORE" dead either.

[Jimi]

Here's what it comes down to... This board is filled with a mixture of:

A) Spineless neutered whimps that cry for mother because there is too much noise and too much recoil; and
B) Macho butt-heads trying to compensate for their small "units" by getting firepower well in excess of what is necessary for the game at hand.

While I certainly understand many of our desires to have numerous firearms, and am guilty of that pleasure myself... I am a strong believer in the one-gun school of thought... at least up to a point. Sure I collect firearms, but when it comes to hunting it is inarguable that I am better off being extremely practiced with my primary rifle. The more you practice with a rifle the more proficient you're going to be. Period.

And I think it is silly to assume that just because someone can afford a brown bear hunt that they can afford a "specialized" rifle for it. Heck, at $10,000+ I am strapped to put together a good hunt and I sure don't need to tack another $2k on top of it because I'm not confident in my less powerful rifle and need to buy a magnum. It takes me years to save up $30k (and now it's moving up to $40k) for a good safari. You don't see me rushing out to put another $15k-$25k on a Rigby. Nope. I'm very happy with my M70 in .300 Wby Magnum and M70 .458 Lott. I also have a couple of pretty rifles in my collection, but the M70s are my killing rifles and I have no hesitation in saying that my practicing with those 2 rifles has both saved my life and saved me from having to chase wounded game.

If a guy choses a .308 as his deer rifle... or 7mm-08, or .270, or whatever... that's great. They'll all do the job. But if you dream of that big hunt, why not know that you have the rifle to do it? And why not know that you are extremely proficient with that rifle because you have practiced your tail off and made that firearm an extension of yourself.

I suggest to you, bearblade, to ask which caliber you're going to feel best about hunting with. If you have any suspicion that the recoil of the Win Mag might lessen your desire to shoot it... or if the higher price of the ammunition might keep you away from the range... get the .308. It is a great cartridge. Otherwise, go for the gusto.