Author Topic: Gun Shy Puppy (Read 3419 times)

Specklebelly · « **on:** May 23, 2005, 12:17:26 PM »

I have a six month old lab that is very sensitive to loud noises. I have never shot a gun by her but I am almost afraid to.

She hides when I mow the lawn or cut the weeds. We tried a cap gun around her this weekend and she took off.

Help!!! What can I do?

She is very well disciplined and is doing good with training. This is very concerning as a duck dog doesn't do you much good if they are gun shy.

PA-Joe · « **Reply #1 on:** May 24, 2005, 02:12:49 AM »

The trick is to get her doing something she likes as a distraction. Have one of your children start playing with the dog. Start about 100 yards away and use the cap gun. The kid should not react when the gun goes off either just keep palying like it is nothing. See how she reacts then move a little bit closer. Distraction, distance and keep the caps small. No 12/20 gauges until she can tolerate the cap gun or a 22short. This may take several months but it works.

Don Fischer · « **Reply #2 on:** May 27, 2005, 08:25:31 AM »

I had a Lab like that years ago. Sounds like a truely "gun shy" dog. There may be a cure but I've no idea what it is. It's not really gun shy, it's timid to a fault. Even clapping hands will likely make it duck. In a case like this I'd just get a new dog. I've only seen a few of these trulely "gun shy" dog in my life; never saw one get over it. Even with the dog generally concidered "gun shy", they're really not. Rather they've been improperly introduced. It's not the object that scares them, it's the noise. They quickly learn to associate the noise with the object. "Gun shy" is probally a term we'd be better off without. Introuuce a soft dog to loud noises properly and in the vast majority of cases the problem goes away. Again, it's never the gun, it's noise association with the gun.

rider · « **Reply #3 on:** May 27, 2005, 05:55:28 PM »

As a backyard trainer I only have advise for what has worked for me. Maybe a professional trainer might be worth the money if your heart is desired for this dog to be a hunting companion. Just a suggestion!

Don Fischer · « **Reply #4 on:** May 27, 2005, 07:26:40 PM »

From what Specklebelly has said, the dog is truely noise shy and likely won't be fixed. It is not the gun, it's the sharp noise that gets it, timid to a fault! You will likely find trainers that will be willing to try and fix your dog. Likely none will be able to and a reputable trainer will advise you to start a new pup, the rest will take your money and give it their best effort. Don't expect much.

If you like the dog, make it a pet and get a new pup to hunt with. You have a rare thing. Guy shyness is a taught thing, your pup is not gun shy but you could teach it to be. Get your pup in front of you and clap your hands hard, likely your pup will cower in some way, it's excessively timid, not gun shy.

dukkillr · « **Reply #5 on:** May 28, 2005, 07:16:37 AM »

precisely what i would have said... some dogs are just born that way

Specklebelly · « **Reply #6 on:** May 29, 2005, 11:39:56 AM »

Thanks for the reply's.

Looks like I have some problems on my hand.

I think the chances of my 9 and 10 year old letting me get rid of the dog are a little limited. So I have some work to do.

victorcharlie · « **Reply #7 on:** May 29, 2005, 12:44:24 PM »

I can't remember how many dogs I've had that just ran off.........never to be seen again.......wonder why they do that?

Specklebelly · « **Reply #8 on:** May 30, 2005, 05:04:18 AM »

Quote from: victorcharlie

I can't remember how many dogs I've had that just ran off.........never to be seen again.......wonder why they do that?

:wink: :wink: :wink:

oso45-70 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 21, 2005, 08:09:51 PM »

Gentle men.

I have had a fairly good record of bringing a dog around to hunting that was gun shy. If you can find something that the dog loves to do just insert a little pop or crack of some kind and keep it up, most dogs wants to please you and it is having a good time he will come around. Years ago i gave a brit. pup to a feller who took the pup out in the country and fired a 6.5mauser right over his head and the pup ran under the pick up scared to death,, so the guy calls me up and says the dog is gun shy, I asked him what happened and he tells me the story, So i took the dog back and the next week end my hunting bud took all my bird dogs and went hunting and we found a place where there was a lot of birds. I let the pup out and he went right under the truck, we was at the edge of a corn field and the birds were coming in as fast as we could shoot. All of my dogs were running as fast as they could going out and bringing in birds and having a good time, well it wasn't too very long until the pup under the truck came out and was watching what was going on and becoming more and more interested in what was going on needless to say it wasn't too long before he was bringing in birds too. I don't say that all dogs will respond like that But i think people loose patience and set them selves up for failure. Hope i haven't bored you to death. sorry about the long post........Joe......

Tusker · « **Reply #10 on:** July 13, 2005, 03:48:50 PM »

I have 3 bird dogs, or at least they were before I got sick. :roll: Anyway, as for starting them out I did this. I took them with me to the range. left them leashed in the back of a pick-up, while I was 50 or 60 feet away, using a 22. did this for awaile, then put the gun down, and let them loose to play a bit, all the time making over them, and acting excited. Kept this up, then at some point just picked the gun up. Let them sniff etc. then the next trip, they were leashed to a post, and I was a bit closer with the 22. Repeated putting the gun down, and playing. then picked up the gun, more sniffing etc. At one point, I had them leashed to a post right next to me with the 22- I would shoot, then while holding the gun, I would hold the lease, and shoot. All sounds more drawn out than it was. This was repeated again and again, then I got them to fetch, and then introduced the gun, and noise to the lesson. at some point I moved up in caliber and onto shotgun blanks.It worked for me is all I can tell you.

Good Luck!

Pups are shy of gun noise because they dont understand it. the above will help them understand. I have no use for the fool who will stick a blank gun in to a box of pups and pull the trigger, and can remember knocking at least one on his arse for doing so.

Bim · « **Reply #11 on:** August 20, 2005, 05:01:08 PM »

Here's a trick my uncle showed me. I've done it with all my dogs. When you feed the pup and while it's eating take a couple of 12" long 2X4's and softly at first bang them together getting louder as time goes on. At first they'll stop and look at you then go on eating after a while they won't pay any attention. I would take my time with this dog you know kinda play it by ear. Don't get too loud too quick.

RBishop · « **Reply #12 on:** September 20, 2005, 10:46:25 AM »

Good luck. I bought a Setter one time knowing that loud noises bothered him, but not gun shots. Craziest thing I have ever seen. He would point birds, retrieve a shot bird to hand, but if a loud truck came down the road beside the field we were hunting he was done for the day. He tucked his tail and acted like he had been whipped.

I never could understand how a dog could not be gun shy but would let another loud sound ruin a day in the field.

Smartest dog I ever owned, but could never figure him out. He was that way until the day he died.

Don Fischer · « **Reply #13 on:** October 24, 2005, 12:28:52 PM »

Just a guess. You said that your dog wasn't afraid of guns but quit when a loud truck came down the road. Did you get the dog as an adult? Sounds like it had a bad experience around a loud vehicle at some point. The dog was probally soft anyway; that's a good guess as most setter's tend to be.

The dog was probally associating the loud truck noise with something that happened at some point. We had a shorthair once that was scared of fire. Quite some time after she had been trained, my wife threw a bunch of stuff in a burn barrel next to the dog. In that stuff was a couple shotgun shells. They exploded and scared hell out of "Tiny". Ever since he was afraid of fire but never guns. It's association! I would guess something similar happened to your setter.

RBishop · « **Reply #14 on:** October 27, 2005, 07:53:06 AM »

I did get the dog as an adult. The guy I bought him from told me he was not gun shy but didnt like other noises. He offered to give me my money back if he wouldnt point, retrieve etc and not be bothered by gun fire. He said he didnt know why he was "noise shy". The guy raised him from a pup, trained him even kept him inside his house.

Don Fischer · « **Reply #15 on:** October 29, 2005, 05:34:00 PM »

OK. Take a couple de-primed MTY shotgun shells and use a 1/4" drill bit to drill out the pocket. Then use a break action gun and carry it with you with those shells in the chamber with new primers inserted. When the dog is off a ways, shoot off a primer. Very quiet and associates a very mild noise with the gun. Do that for several weeks. Be sure the dog is not being bothered. Then take a .22 rifle with you. When the dog is off aways, hold the muzzle about 3" off the ground and fire the gun. IGNORE anything the dog does, no "good boy", no "poor boy", no nothing. If the shot bothers the dog, stop and go back to the primers for awhile.

You might, befor starting, lay the shotgun on the living room floor then let the dog in. Just to make sure It's not associating the noise with the gun. If it ignores the gun laying there, your in luck. If it shys away and won't come near, you got trouble.

prairiedog555 · « **Reply #16 on:** September 04, 2006, 07:00:15 AM »

Of course you should never introduce a dog to the gun by firing anywhere near to it to start off. Gradual increasing noise. That being said, here is a trick I learned about training all animals, from when I was a falconer. First and always when you are trying to pursuade and animal to do what you want first you must get his attention, Not with a 2x4 (that only works on kids and wives) but make sure that animal is VERY hungry. Falconers call that making them Keen. When they are hungry you have their attention. You are for that moment the most important thing in their life.
So, in an extreme case you introduce load noise, gradual increase in volume and proximity when the animal is really hungry, maybe 2-3 days or longer. Remember this is extream, like it goes to the pound if this does not work. Natural desire for preservation shouldl outweigh fear and it will associate loud noise with pleasure. Remember Pavloffs dog. I always train before feeding. Fat and sassy is for you, not the dog. Don't really need to hit a dog, just get their attention and repitition.
Good Luck

Don Fischer · « **Reply #17 on:** September 04, 2006, 12:43:54 PM »

Now that's a new one on me but two or three days without food does seem extream! Have you actually done this? The deal with training on an mty stomach is they are awake and alert. Hunting dogs are fed, generally, an hour or so AFTER the hunt. That way they are on their game durning the hunt. On the other hand, sentry and guard dogs are fed after their shift, usually in the morning. Puts them on their game at night. You called it making them "keen". Right on! Field trial dogs are never fed just befor their brace, always after,,,,,unless,,,,, you have a wild dog you can't control and don't want to loose. Feed just befor turning it loose. Hard to run well on a full belly!

Dee · « **Reply #18 on:** September 04, 2006, 02:30:34 PM »

Well, here is a cure for your dog if you don't mind listening to an old man who's cured a bunch of em. But, before I go on some are like Mr Fischer say but, not many. Feed the dog once a day in a bowl. When you set the bowl down in front of the dog time it, just before the dog takes the first bite, shoot a starter pistol, or something simular over your head not his. If he backs off, pick the bowl up an do it again tomorrow. Sounds cruel to some but, when he gets hungry enough, you can blow up your hunting truck and he'll just keep on eating. Now, I have seen dogs go 5 or 6 days some more without eating but, eventually they give in and find out the noise is not worth going hungry. Your dog may start lookin poor but, he ain't gonna starve to death, it's not in his nature. Before I retired from L.E. I FORCED trained EVERY dog I EVER trained in patrol or narcotics to come to me the first time I called. Some said it was hard to watch, and asked me why. The first reason is I can't stand a dog that won't come to me when I call it. The second reason is if the guy he's chewing on decides to give up, the dog needs quit when I say to. The third reason was if we were working and someone had a bead on him or he was in the street or highway I needed him to move on command, not when he got ready. Anyway, the method works on gunshy dogs, provided the dog is any good to start with. And also, like I said, I never saw a healthy dog intentionally starve when food was offered. Even if some moron was shootin his pistol off while he ate. Good luck, sometimes success means hard work and hard choices.

prairiedog555 · « **Reply #19 on:** September 23, 2006, 05:35:16 AM »

Like I said this is an extreme case for behavior modification. Around here gun shy hunting dogs don't live very long. What might seem cruel in the short run might save a life. The dog must decide what is more scarry, loud noise or survival. I have never seen it NOT work. sometimes treatment has to be re-done but you must associate loud noise with pleasure. Dogs are not that different than us, once you get used to something you find that it is not that bad, just need to get to the point that you Have to do it. Hell, I was scared of girls when I was a pup!

rocky_taco · « **Reply #20 on:** December 17, 2006, 06:20:51 AM »

My dog was shy to any loud noises as a pup. I got a cap gun and would click it (no caps) while she ate. I stood about 10 feet away and gradually got closer to her. When I was right by here with clicks and she didn't mind, I moved back away again and went to caps. When I was able to shoot caps near her, I moved back again and went to a starters gun. She doesn't seem to mind anything now.

SingleShotShorty · « **Reply #21 on:** May 22, 2007, 01:04:59 PM »

I start puppies out by taking them to a skeet range and starting at around 200 yards and gradually work them closer to the firing line over a period of a week or so. I don't know if this is the best way to introduce a puppy to shotgun fire but it works for me. Just be patient and don't get in a hurry.

Dee · « **Reply #22 on:** May 22, 2007, 01:51:59 PM »

Some dog mature faster or slower than others. Just like people. You might want to back off the issue for a couple more months. I did not start doing any real displine work on patrol dog prospects until they were usually around 11 months old.

SingleShotShorty · « **Reply #23 on:** September 05, 2007, 11:03:39 AM »

Myself I have never seen a lab that was born Gun Shy but I have seen a few that have been made that way. I also think that shooting a blank pistol over them when they eat is the dumbist thing I have ever heard of How would you like it if evertime you sat down to eat someone shot a gun over your head. Just my opinion

Dee · « **Reply #24 on:** September 06, 2007, 04:24:18 AM »

Not to argue SingleShotShorty, but trying to rationalize what a DOG thinks, in terms of the WAY A HUMAN THINKS, is a FAR DUMBER IDEA, and I have heard you analogy MANY TIMES.
HOW WOULD "YOU FEEL" IF WHEN YOUR BUDDY SHOT A DUCK, HE TOLD "YOU" TO JUMP IN THE COLD WATER AND SWIM OUT AND GET IT JUST IN YOUR BIRTHDAY SUIT?
You wouldn't do it but, the dog LOVES IT AND TO HIM "IT'S A GREAT IDEA".
You and the dog do not think alike. "I HOPE".

As far as being BORN GUNSHY? Well let's say that out of a litter of say NINE WELL BRED PUPS, only ONE makes a good patrol dog, and then a year later out of the same stud, and bitch, ANOTHER LITTER OF NINE PUPS, is born and FIVE of them make good patrol dogs. HMMMMMM.
Dogs DO NOT RATIONALIZE things as humans do. To even ASSUME they might is a mistake, BUT, some have a stronger CHARCTER than others, are BOLDER, or SHYER, are HIGHER on prey drive, or LOWER, are HIGHER on SOCIAL DRIVE, or LOWER. Breeding though important is NOT the end all, in getting GOOD PUPS EVERY TIME. People prove this daily.

NHM · « **Reply #25 on:** March 20, 2008, 09:19:22 AM »

Many bird dogs are noise shy and love the sound of a shotgun. Keep it in short steps and make the noise far away from them while they are doing what they love. As the noise gets closer and louder, make the noise associate with birds. If a dog loves birds, they can overcome any timidness. If they don't like birds, tell the other half that another puppy will be joining the family soon.

jamesrus · « **Reply #26 on:** September 24, 2008, 08:08:19 PM »

the last gun shy puppy i had was a German Shorthair. He was extreemly timid around any sudden noises. I tried an old trick my grandfather told me about. I took an old tin can and put a 3/4 inch nut inside it. I then tied it around his collar so that it would just bump the ground when he walked or ran. After about 3 days of letting him run the yard with this, i took it off and carried it with me as we trained with dummies. while i had him standing by me i would take the can and shake it suddenly right above his head. Then i would throw the dummy. At first he would shy but he soon forgot about the sound and concentrated on his toy. I then moved to throwing the dummy and using a blank gun. He soon learned to forget the sound and have fun.

Jamesrus

Shooter 250 · « **Reply #27 on:** November 22, 2008, 07:12:27 AM »

The way I introduce my dog to loud noises was to get her all excited with her food bowl (which was metal) and when she was just jumping up and down in anticipation of some of her favorite morsels, I would lightly bang her food bowl, while still petting her, on the kennel floor and gradually bang it harder until you could see it was starting to bother her. If she started to back away I would lighten up and when she was all excited again I would feed her. By the time she was six months old, I think you could have lit off a canon and she wouldn’t have gave a hoot.