Author Topic: 777 (Read 5006 times)

Graybeard · « **Reply #60 on:** July 28, 2004, 05:03:32 PM »

Not a problem guys. I don't really get here very often as my interest in muzzle loaders is minimal at best. I guess I just made too many "ass-u-me-tions" ya'll know about them don't ya?

It has been quite some while since I really did any posting or much reading here. Way back when (before the split off of Inlines) we talked all types of muzzle loaders and all types of projectiles and powders here. I guess I just assumed everyone understood when we split off the Inlines that was all that went and we talked all the rest here. My mistake. I should have clarified my intentions sooner I guess. Not my first and likely not my last mistake.

I want this one to be as general and open to various uses of side hammer and under hammer guns as possible. There is a thread on the "Request a Forum" Forum at this time asking for me to set up a "purist" traditional forum much like The Hide. I'd sure hate to do that but will not say NO at this time. We'll see how many folks really want it. Then I'll decide. But I really don't want to see any further spliting of the subject. Heck I wish we could all get along with it back in just one forum but reckon that's asking too much.

GB

sabotloader · « **Reply #61 on:** July 28, 2004, 07:19:03 PM »

GB

Thanks for the explanation of this forum, this was my belief from the get go... but, I agree with you a bunch

Quote

But I really don't want to see any further spliting of the subject. Heck I wish we could all get along with it back in just one forum but reckon that's asking too much.

This would really be great, I am really afraid that one day we will all need to be united to keep what we have, and I am afraid that day is coming sooner than later. The world situation and a lot of politicians are really leaning towards a whole lot more control on what we are shooting, when we are shooting and what may or may not be shipped by mail and frieght.
Since 911 several states have enacted or are acting on legislation that controls the amount of BP you can have in your own home, how much can be shipped, and where it can be shipped to. Anything that applies to an explosive material applys to BP. How long will be before we are regestering muzzleloaders. Take a look at Canada - no fun...

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #62 on:** July 29, 2004, 12:35:19 AM »

You got that right sabotloader. No way do I want the restrictions that Canada has. :eek:

AndyHass · « **Reply #63 on:** July 29, 2004, 04:39:12 AM »

Quote from: filmokentucky

I found my TOTW catalog and Lyman makes a mold for the.69 caliber musket. It casts a minie that weighs 730 grains! This would turn my 1842 musket into a serious stopper. It bears looking into.

WOW...unless that minie is moving VERY slow out the muzzle, I'd think that recoil has got to be SUBSTANTIAL :shock:

crow_feather · « **Reply #64 on:** July 29, 2004, 04:59:52 AM »

Thank you GB for the direction that you want this thread to travel. I have to agree that it will encompass more posters and more information for those interested in shooting sidelocks etc.

I would hate to see the forum further divided. As many have said, black powder is sometimes difficult, if not impossible to get in post 911 USA. Some of us, who are still fortunate enough to be able to buy black off the shelf, have to realize that others are less fortunate and have to resort to -ugh! - more modern types of propellant.

To those that I attempted to dissuade from posting information concerning substitute powders, I sincerely apologize.

Heck, I might even try this 777 powder sometime....................when it comes down to $8.95 a pound.

Crow-feather

filmokentucky · « **Reply #65 on:** July 29, 2004, 06:47:02 AM »

I seem to recall that the 1847 Musketoon was universally despised for its
heavy recoil--and that was with a ball weighing about 470 grains-not a minie.
My 1842 musket, using the same ball over 90 grains of ffg is very pleasant to shoot and surprisingly accurate. Recoil is less than my 1853 Enfield using its standard Civil War load. The '42 weighs about 9 lbs.
I'm not sure what powder charge would be used under the 730 grain minie, but the musket is stout enough to handle 80 -90 grains, I think. This
would give maybe 1000 feet per second tops and a true rainbow trajectory. Still, at reasonable ranges, I believe a deer could be taken with it.

Ramrod · « **Reply #66 on:** July 29, 2004, 12:12:38 PM »

Quote from: filmokentucky

I'm not sure what powder charge would be used under the 730 grain minie, but the musket is stout enough to handle 80 -90 grains, I think. This
would give maybe 1000 feet per second tops and a true rainbow trajectory. Still, at reasonable ranges, I believe a deer could be taken with it.

Or a moose, or a grizz. The service load for this gun was around 110 grains with a buck and ball (3 buckshot) load. The minie was for rifled barrels and killed on both ends, so later rifled muskets were reduced to .58 caliber.

jh45gun · « **Reply #67 on:** July 29, 2004, 12:50:40 PM »

Quote from: crow_feather

Heck, I might even try this 777 powder sometime....................when it comes down to $8.95 a pound.

Crow-feather

Crowfeather, DOn't know about your area if you can get it for 9 bucks a # you are lucky I just called the gun shop here in Northern WI it is 14 bucks a # for the difference I will stick with 777 as you get more shots per # and it has more bang for the buck. Not saying black is bad if they had it for under 10 bucks a # I would have bought some to have on hand!

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #68 on:** July 29, 2004, 01:22:33 PM »

I don't know where people are getting black powder for $9.00 a pound either. :eek: But I get it for $14.00 a pound for Goex. I would have to order any other brand. Unless they are buying it in 25 pound kegs and getting a price break.

Ramrod · « **Reply #69 on:** July 29, 2004, 01:45:44 PM »

Close Redhawk, but 25 one pound cans to a case, not by the keg. Right to your door. Get some friends together for an order. $225 or so, shipping and hazmat included.

filmokentucky · « **Reply #70 on:** July 29, 2004, 02:17:51 PM »

Try TOTW. They have a good price for GOEX.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #71 on:** July 29, 2004, 04:25:55 PM »

Quote from: Ramrod

Close Redhawk, but 25 one pound cans to a case, not by the keg. Right to your door. Get some friends together for an order. $225 or so, shipping and hazmat included.

I won't have to do that for a while. I have 9 1/2 pounds right now. But I will do it when I run out. I will keep it all for myself though

I use a lot in my Shiloh Sharps 45-70 cartridges. I am also using it in my T/C Renegade. Who do you order it from?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #72 on:** July 29, 2004, 04:56:12 PM »

Track of the Wolf's Goex is ~$276 plus shipping for 25lbs.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/categories/tableList.aspx?styleID=94&subID=30&catID=2

filmokentucky · « **Reply #73 on:** July 29, 2004, 05:18:09 PM »

Wow! It's gone up since my last order. They covered the HazMat fee and I paid well under $10 a lb. including UPS shipping.

Ramrod · « **Reply #74 on:** July 30, 2004, 12:04:02 AM »

Last case I bought was Elephant from The Maine Powder House. They have Shuetzen and Swiss too, but don't carry Goex.
Go to the Goex website, they have a list of distributers who will ship to you. J&J Pyrotechnics in Moscow PA is the only one I can think of offhand.

Longcruise · « **Reply #75 on:** July 30, 2004, 07:26:28 AM »

Have been shooting the Graf's powder and did some chrono comparisons. The Graf's (by Wano) is hotter than the Goex and gave me good accuracy too.

A lot of the 777 ballyhoo is over more velocity than the real bp, but my next project will be to shoot some 777/Swiss ff comparisons to see which really does give the most velocity.

I'll put my money on the Swiss :wink:

sabotloader · « **Reply #76 on:** July 30, 2004, 08:17:51 AM »

Longcruise.

If I remember the article correctly I think you are going to find them pretty close to being equal in velocity, it is the other things where the divergence occurs.

Here a new substitute for you to look at:

http://www.magkor.com/index.html

As import restrictions tighten on hazardous material - they may be harder to get and the price is going to go up.

Somel states now have a five # limit on explosive material in your house, that might be another thing everybody will need to look at.

Longcruise · « **Reply #77 on:** July 30, 2004, 10:21:34 AM »

Quote

Somel states now have a five # limit on explosive material in your house, that might be another thing everybody will need to look at.

More back door gun control. Or in this case more like gun owner/shooter control.

Wonder why nobody is concerned about my can of lawn mower gas in the garage. Now there is something that could hurt a firefighter if not the homeowner.

From magkor:

MUZZLELOADER (patched round ball)
Cal. Ball Diameter
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Measure
(by vol.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vel.
FPS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

.45 cal. 0.445Â” .017Â” patch ..80 gr. 2146
.50 cal. 0.490Â” .017Â” patch 100 gr. 2097
0.495Â” .017Â” patch .. 80 gr. 1898
.54 cal. 0.530Â” .017Â” patch 110 gr. 2012

That's not far off what I get with Goex ff with a very tight patch. Methinks Graf will beat it and for sure the swiss. OTOH, like you are saying about availability of the real thing.