Author Topic: Weatherby Vanguard vs Remington 700 (Read 3703 times)

Bulldog · « **on:** April 04, 2004, 06:54:18 AM »

I am going to get a new deer rifle. Trying to decide if I should get a weatherby vanguard or a remington 700. Weatherby guarentees 1 1/2'' acuracy out of the box and I am leaning toward it. Which would be the best gun? :wink:

Zachary · « **Reply #1 on:** April 04, 2004, 08:38:45 AM »

There are a lot of things to consider in determining which is the "best" gun. Quality and accuracy are two important factors, but so are fit, weight, etc.

Keep in mind that the Vanguard is actually a Howa 1500. That's not a bad thing...actually, Howas are very good actions and have a solid reputation for above average quality.

The Remington 700 is one of my favorite rifles (or actions really, because there are numerous versions of the 700 available - BDL, BDL SS, Mountain, VS, VSSF, etc.)

Also, just because Weatherby gives an accuracy "guarantee" doesn't mean that a Remington 700 can't outshoot a Weatherby (because I have seen many out-of-the-box 700s out shoot weatherbys).

In my opinion, you really can't go wrong with either - although I have a preference for Remington 700s over the Howas/Weatherbys.

Zachary

Bearwolf31 · « **Reply #2 on:** April 04, 2004, 09:16:23 AM »

I like my Rem 700 but for the price I dont think you can beat the Weatherby Vanguard (ie howa 1500).

dbuck · « **Reply #3 on:** April 04, 2004, 01:01:25 PM »

I have both and I love both my Remington 700 and Weatherby Vanguard. In fact I just purchased a new Weatherby Vanguard in 30-06 and one reason I purchased it was I wanted a 24" barrel and Howa 1500's do not make that length. My target that came with my rifle showed 1 1/8" group at 100 yards. I put a top of the line Bell & Carlson stock that I already had on it. The fit and finish is very good and I'm taking it Elk hunting this fall. On the other side of the coin, nothing out shoots my Remington 700 SS in 7-08 out of the box.

It depends on your budget, you can't go wrong with either one.

dbuck

dbuck

Bubba Jack · « **Reply #4 on:** April 04, 2004, 02:04:15 PM »

Do not have much experience with the Weatherbys or Howas and am sure they are fine rifles, but have had several Rem. 700's. From the ADL to the BDL and the VS models, all have shot sub moa with factory Hornady bullets and a little tinder love and care. I would not hesitate to buy another 700 or put it another way, I have not owned one that could not shoot better than I can.

Bubba Jack

Lawdog · « **Reply #5 on:** April 04, 2004, 02:30:03 PM »

Bulldog,

Consider this that Weatherby has the best guarantee you can get. Doesn't matter if it is for accuracy or their product. Remington has no accuracy guarantee, in fact they will tell you that if one of there rifles shoot groups in the 3 inch range that is within company standards(been there and went thru that). Remington's customer service department is a black hole. You send in complaints and nothing comes out(also been thru this too). Remington's quality control is at best questionable. I can give you five reasons why not to buy Remington,

1.] hideous safety

2.] brazed on bolt handle

3.] declining quality control

4.] non existent customer service

5.] a trigger group made from stamped metal

Go with the Vanguard and don't look back. Weatherby has their name on it and Weatherby will back it up. Lawdog

1911crazy · « **Reply #6 on:** April 05, 2004, 03:13:15 AM »

I noticed with my last purchase of a 700 remington in 338win.mag. their kind of fussy on what ammo you put down the pipe. In first sighting the gun in it didn't like remington ammo it wasn't accurate. I switched to winchester brand ammo and the gun became very accurate using the 225gr 338 win.mag. While sighting it in my last two rounds went thru the same hole at 100yds. Then I stood up and hand holding it with three quick shots on three different bullseyes I came about an inch from each bullseye in rapid fire running the bolt and firing as quick as I could. Thats not bad for a Remington 700 and using over the counter bought and not reloading. I've only shot about 3 boxes of ammo out of this gun too.
BigBill

So would I buy another Remington?? If I was going to spend a lot of money again on a rifle yes I would. For a new gun just out of the box and all i did was to mount the scope and bore sight it and with a few rounds its shooting like this what more can i ask for.

Many years ago(1972) with my new mossberg bolt action '06 i did everything to make it accurate and in the end I had to reload for it then I had nickel sized groups at 100yds, but i bedded the stock and i went thru a lots of new different brands of ammo/time/$$$ before it was acceptable.

Omaha-BeenGlockin · « **Reply #7 on:** April 05, 2004, 04:52:03 AM »

Remingtons are horrible-----get the Weatherby-------or even better yet----go look at a Tikka---the BEST value for the dollar currently available in rifles.

tominboise · « **Reply #8 on:** April 05, 2004, 05:36:05 AM »

Well, I don't have a dog in the fight, but I did buy a Remington 700 Short Action in .221 fireball, and it's been a great rifle. I did adjust the trigger some, but other than that it's been fine. It shoots great and the barrel doesn't even copper foul. I own a wide range of rifle brands (tikka, sako, winchester, weatherby, remington) and would buy another Remington based on this one, if it was chambered in what I wanted, with the features I wanted.

CEJ1895 · « **Reply #9 on:** April 05, 2004, 06:36:50 AM »

I've got both rifles and I've never had a problem with either. I like the saftey on the Remington's better than the Weatherby's and as for accuracy mine are about the same if I do my part... CEJ

Zachary · « **Reply #10 on:** April 05, 2004, 06:38:54 AM »

Quote from: Omaha-BeenGlockin

Remingtons are horrible-----get the Weatherby-------or even better yet----go look at a Tikka---the BEST value for the dollar currently available in rifles.

But for the fact that he was only considering the Remington vs the Howa, I recommend the Remington.

BUT.....if we can give other alternatives, then I surely would recommend the TIKKA hands down.

Zachary

oldelkhunter · « **Reply #11 on:** April 05, 2004, 11:07:03 AM »

I have been disappointed with some Remingtons I have owned and many other brands as well. When they are at their peak however I have seen very few rifles shoot as well. Best shooting rifles i have ever owned have been Remingtons and Browning Abolts but that is not the question here. No problem recommending either Remington or Weatherby both quality rifles.

slappy375 · « **Reply #12 on:** April 05, 2004, 12:03:07 PM »

Hey law dog arent vanguards made in Japan?All my remingtons are made in Ilion,New York.Your mark 5 is made in the USA why not the Vangurd?

VSSF · « **Reply #13 on:** April 05, 2004, 12:43:09 PM »

Go to a bench shoot and see how many Weatherby's are being shot.Then count the Remingtons,ok maybe just actions but you won't see many,if any Weatherby's.Spend it where you earned it.

Lawdog · « **Reply #14 on:** April 05, 2004, 02:04:44 PM »

slappy 375,

Yup, all Vanguards are made by Howa and that is just one of the reasons I don't and won't own one. BUT they are still backed by Weatherby and you can't find a better guarantee than Weatherby. Remington does not know what the word guarantee means. Tell me, what does the Written Accuracy Guarantee that Remington say? The guy wanted to know which would be the BEST value.

VSSF,

Quote

Go to a bench shoot and see how many Weatherby's are being shot.Then count the Remingtons,ok maybe just actions but you won't see many,if any Weatherby's.

Now tell me just how many of the actions are standard factory issue? The real reason you see so many is that Remington actions are about the lowest priced actions you can find. Also that there are tons of after market parts for them. You ever wonder why there are so many parts available for Remington? Could it be they need them to make them reliable and shootable? By the way what action is now the new world record holder for the mile? Lawdog

VSSF · « **Reply #15 on:** April 05, 2004, 04:16:43 PM »

Would you use something that is cheap and easy to get for accuracy?Where are the weatherby actions?

Zachary · « **Reply #16 on:** April 05, 2004, 07:00:06 PM »

The only thing I would like to add is that, as I see it, the reason that remington actions are used are not only because they are relatively inexpensive, but because they are so easy to work on. Also, they are one of the strongest actions out there (although I think that the Mark V is a stronger action). Aftermarket parts are readily available for the 700 action too.

I don't know about the record holder for the "mile" but there is no denying that there are more 700 actions on the bench circuit than any other action, and I would think that, even though the Weatherby is apparently a new record holder for the "mile," that more records have been won on 700 actions than any other action.\

Then again, I think that the quality of Weatherby Mark V actions - out of the box, are better than Remington 700s out of the box.

Zachary

ihuntbucks · « **Reply #17 on:** April 06, 2004, 12:12:41 AM »

I can only speak for the Mod 700;I the ADL in .30/.06.Never any problems.Shots fine.As for as the Weatherby in 1" groups very good.The 700 in 3" groups,oh well close enough for me.I can kill anything I shoot at w/3" groupings.Tell you what,when in doublt....just buy both :lol: problem solved..............Rick

slappy375 · « **Reply #18 on:** April 06, 2004, 11:25:34 AM »

Ive never had a problem and wont bad mouth weatherby,but theres bound to be problems with any rifle.Remington has over 4 million 700's out there.Im sure theres alot of happy customers like myself.As for there customer service ive never had to speak to them.Good luck

DirtyHarry · « **Reply #19 on:** April 06, 2004, 04:17:10 PM »

Zachary,
Just for the record, I think the record holder for the mile is a Savage action with a custom barrel shooting 7mm wsm.

Zachary · « **Reply #20 on:** April 07, 2004, 06:17:58 AM »

Well, I don't know for certain - I'm just basing it on what Lawdog said in his earlier post. To me it kinda sounded like it was weatherby that held the record.

For whatever reason, it really doesn't matter to me which action holds the record, because I don't shoot at distances even close to a mile. Still, thanks for letting us know. :wink:

Zachary

PaulS · « **Reply #21 on:** April 07, 2004, 09:20:40 PM »

In the "Light rifle" benchrest where factory weapons are used and required you will find more Remington 700's than any other, single, action. They have to have factory barrels and actions. I have visited a few sites that talk about the shoots and was impressed to see that a good 25% of the rifles were Remingtons. The highest number of winners are from those Remingtons as well so.... when I made my custom 358 Win. I used the Remington 700 action and it has been a great rifle without any problems. I have two loads that both shoot sub caliber groups at 100 yards quite regularly - and one of those loads uses a 158 grain pistol bullet. I have never owned a Weatherby and though I am sure that they can be as accurate as most shooters the ones I have fired produced patterns in the three inch range. When asked their owners reply - when you are shooting BIG animals that is accurate enough. :shock: It might well be accurate enough for them but not for me!

PaulS

Lawdog · « **Reply #22 on:** April 08, 2004, 11:14:57 AM »

PaulS,

Quote

I have never owned a Weatherby and though I am sure that they can be as accurate as most shooters the ones I have fired produced patterns in the three inch range. When asked their owners reply - when you are shooting BIG animals that is accurate enough. It might well be accurate enough for them but not for me!

I have only run across ONE Weatherby rifle that wouldn't group better than the Weatherby guarantee of 1.5 inches. That one rifle was returned to Weatherby and Weatherby replaced the rifle and had the new rifle in the owners hands within 14 days. All the other Weatherby's rifles that I own or have come across all shoot under MOA with very little load work. I wish it had been me that had come across those guys that had those Weatherby rifles that wouldn't group. These guys needed to learn how to use what they had. Lawdog

E T Hunter · « **Reply #23 on:** April 09, 2004, 04:44:20 PM »

Bulldog,

I have never owned a Weatherby, but a few friends have been very pleased, their only complaint being cost of ammo. They did not reload, could have saved on ammo.
I do own 2 Remington's, 1 is an early 1970's, 700 in 7mm mag. With reloads it will shoot a 3 shot, 100 yd. group all 3 holes touching, when I can do my part. The 2nd is a 3 yr. old 700 in 270 win. It shoots Remington factory 130 gr ammo in 3/4 inch groups. Trigger was at 4 lbs. out of the box.
Never had a need for customer service. Need I say, I love my Remington's!!!!

Randy

Daniel · « **Reply #24 on:** April 13, 2004, 05:07:52 AM »

I've never owned a Vanguard, but based on the last Rem 700 I bought, you couldn't give me another one. It failed to extract cases on a regular basis and the barrel copper fouled like crazy. Fit and finish was nothing to brag about either. I don't like em' at all.

I prefer to have a rifle that reliably extracts cases, has better fit and finish, has a safety that blocks the firing pin, has a standing ejector and has a one piece bolt. This is why I like my Sakos so much. They have all these important features and are accurate as well.

scruffy · « **Reply #25 on:** April 13, 2004, 06:27:48 AM »

With all of this talk about the action you'd think these things were sold without barrels, lol. :lol:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the vangaurd come with a 24" weatherby hammer forged barrels (howa's have 22" howa barrels) and the Remington ADLs have button rifled barrels?

I've read through this and the negatives for the Vanguard is the action is made in Japan. The Remingtons have a long list of negatives if you encounter problems and have to deal with Remington's customer service.

Since you are comparing a Vangaurd to a Remington I'm assuming you're comparing it to a Remington 700 ADL.

To choose between the 700 ADL and Vangaurd I'll take the Vanguard. Better barrel, better customer service, floor plate for unloading, gloss finish on metal, adjustible trigger down to 3.5lbs (below that the saftey doesn't work right on many rifles), uses rem 700 scope mounts, and comes with a test target.

The test target is important because if you go someplace with many in stock and a very nice (or bored) salesman who will go through the boxes and get the rifle with the best target, sometime you can find one with sub MOA. When I was working behind the counter I ran across one with a .5" test target, I kept that one for myself. :wink: With a 6-18x scope and steady rest I recreated that group size (my groups were 5 shot, test target was 3 shot) many times. A little homework with the targets can pay off!

All that said, I'd really like to pick up a Remington 700 adl in 223 and put a williams peep sight on it. I can't explain why, but I've always wanted that set up. Light weight, rugged, cheap. Do a trigger job on it, and away I'd go!

later,
scruffy

BIG JAKE · « **Reply #26 on:** April 13, 2004, 12:08:27 PM »

All right guys lets compare apples and oranges. I' ve own several brand of rifles and none shoot like a Remington out of the box. You don't need a guarentee to sell them they sell themselves. I've learned from experience and from that I have a 700 mountain rifle in 280, two 673 in 243, two 673 in 308, 673 in 350 rem mag, 700 adl in 7mm mag, 700adl in 308 and all shot 1/2 moa out of the box with factory ammo. My 700 mountain rifle out of the box with factory ammo out shot a friends Hart rifle and before you say it I was the shooter behind both, it made him sick. My 7 mag out shot my uncles 30-06 winchester pre 64 model 70. I forgot to mention my 7600 in 280 that out shot a friends weatherby 257 mark v and if you want to compare 22's my 572 bdl deluxe pump will shoot 1 hole groups at 50 yards with win super x hollowpoints. Shotguns my 870 sps deer gun smooth bore cloverleafs 3 shots at a 100 yards with federal classic rifled slugs. I don't need a written guarentee with a rep like that. Besides never had to deal with customer service.

Omaha-BeenGlockin · « **Reply #27 on:** April 13, 2004, 12:59:22 PM »

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes.

Your Remington experience is the exception---not the norm.

VSSF · « **Reply #28 on:** April 13, 2004, 02:45:00 PM »

Thats been my experience also.

hvacman · « **Reply #29 on:** April 13, 2004, 04:38:39 PM »

You Remington haters are killing me. I have a 700AS {bdl action with matte finish and synthetic stock} that is about 15 years old. This rifle is a 270 Win. and it will still shoot 2.25 to 2.5 inch groups at 200 yds. Never and extraction or feeding problem. Likes most factory and hand loads, retains same point of impact year after year. I can't complain about any Remington I have or have ever hade