Author Topic: 357 Mag for Hunting (Read 2321 times)

handirifle · « **on:** April 01, 2004, 05:24:15 AM »

Hi all, my first post on this (handgun) forum. I've read a bit of your posts on the 357 for hunting but was wondering. I have a Ruger stainless Security Six. It only has a 4" barrel.

My question, what is this puppy suitable for? Never hunted with handgun at all. Would I gain much by going to a 6" barrel (if I even can)?

Thanks

Raging480 · « **Reply #1 on:** April 01, 2004, 06:03:04 AM »

The 4" bbl is not very popular for hunting with. If you are going to get a longer gun, which I recommend, why not buy a larger caliber? My first revolver was a 6" .357, but since then, I have bought others, which are more versatile, and more practical. I would recommend a .41 or .44 mag, or even a Ruger single action .45 long colt. Even with a longer barrel, the .357 is to be used like a 'loud bow', to quote another from this forum. Heavy bullet, close range.

DzrtRat · « **Reply #2 on:** April 01, 2004, 06:36:04 AM »

The .357 is about the minumum caliber for hunting deer, IMO. Being able to put your bullet where you want is important with any caliber, but is more so when your using minumum calibers so accuracy is the key.

You would gain a little velocity with a 6" barrel as compared to the 4", but I doubt that you'd ever know the difference in the field. Hit the same animal in the same place with the same bullet out of either barrel and the animal won't know the difference, either.

What you gain with a longer barrel is a longer sight radius, which makes accurate shooting a little easier. If you can hit whatever animal you are hunting with the 4" at the ranges you intend to shoot at (I would limit shots at deer with a .357 to about 50-60 yards or so), then the 4" barrel should serve you well.

Good luck.

Jerry Lester · « **Reply #3 on:** April 01, 2004, 06:49:33 AM »

If you do decide to get a longer barreled revolver, and you intend to only hunt deer, or bigger game, then I sort of agree with Raging480.

On the other hand, if you're planning on hunting smaller stuff, and game up to the size of deer, your gun will do fine if you shoot it well.

I think revolvers(scoped or not) should be limited to around 50 to 60 yards no matter what caliber you end up using. Some guys can shoot very accurately farther, and pretty consistantly too. Fact is though, we've all pulled pistol shots, and missed our mark enough, that I think trying a shot farther than around very extended bow range is taking too much of a chance on wounding game. It's one thing to hit a target every shot under calm practice, but it's all together different when it's a real life hunting situation.

If I was you, and didn't want to buy another gun, I'd practice with that 4" revolver from now till deer season, shooting not only targets, but any kind of small live critters like groundhogs or such, till I felt confident in my ability out to what ever range. Then when deer season rolls around, knock about a third off your confident range, and you'll kill any deer that offers a shot within that limit.

Your 357 magnum will kill any deer cleanly, and you don't even have to shoot hot loads to do it. If you don't handload, and don't want to spend big bucks on custom ammo, just run out, and buy any 158g SP load that shoots good in your gun. XTP-FPs are also great, if you can find them. Stay away from HPs, as they tend to open up way to quick on deer.

I've been killing deer every year for a good while with a 357 in both a 6.5" Blackhawk(getting ready to be cut to 5.5"), and a Marlin 1894C rifle. Not a single one has went farther than if they'd been shot with a 300 magnum, and most have fallen within sight of me. this picture is of one I killed last season with A Remington 158g SP.

Ken in SENM · « **Reply #4 on:** April 01, 2004, 07:38:31 AM »

Lookin' good, Jerry. Still drivin' that Ranger, I see? Good, good trucks, <IMO>. You have some good eatin' there with ya on the tailgate. I guess I understand the feeling of seeing a great big ole' buck with a huge rack, and kinda wantin' to put 'im in yer bag.

But I have tried cookin' those horns ever way in the world, and I ain't yet made 'em fit to eat!!!! If a feller lived where you live, it would be easy to stay supplied with good meat! Organic too, if it matters......

I always appreciate hearing what you have to say, cause I know it comes from experience, and lots of it. Most of us just flat don't have the opportunity to bust as many rounds at real live game as you do. Thanks for your comments. As I have told you before, I appreciate also your common sense approach to hunting and shooting and the practicality of the loads you use.

I have sure not found any reason to be dis-satisfied with my bulk Remington jacketed soft point bullets in my .357 loads. And I will tell ya another thing I have found. Remington Core Lokt bullets in any rifle caliber will get the job done everytime, if you put them where any bullet needs to be to do its intended work. They ain't fancy, and they don't get much press, but they are as cheap as just about any, and they flat work!!

You can spend more money, and you may even gain a bit of advantage, but dead is dead. I like 'em. Thanks for the picture. Keep up the good work, and keep on reportin' to us.

Jerry Lester · « **Reply #5 on:** April 01, 2004, 09:31:52 AM »

Yep. Till Ford does something to really tick me off, I'll probably always drive a Ranger. Good milage, enough room, and it''l get through the trees in the mountains better. This one is a 2004 with a 4.0, and I like it way better than my last one.

On the deer...

I get all tore up just like any other hunter when I see a big rack coming through the woods. I've just got to the point that hunting for racks don't give me much thrill any more. I get a bigger kick out of stalking "any" deer, and getting as close as I can. This one was shot well within even a novice bow hunters range. It's just as hard to get that close(in a stalk) to a deer like this one, as it is to sneak in on a trophy buck. What's really exiting is when you close in to about 20 yards, and the deer turns, and walks right to you. The closest shot I ever made in those cases was only about 4-5 feet from the muzzle of a 30-30. Now that's hunting to me!

Ken in SENM · « **Reply #6 on:** April 01, 2004, 10:58:12 AM »

I agree (about the Fords too)! They all hear and smell and see very well. A good sneak is a good sneak, no matter the size. These days, if I wuz gonna shot a big 'un, it would be with my camera, just to show how close he was!!

One of my biggest thrills was the coyote I could touch with my rifle barrel when he landed. I will never forget the "O-S!!" look on his face when he realized what he was chasin'. I doubt if my heart woulda been thumpin' much harder if it hada been a buffalo. I thought he wuz gonna be in my lap fer a minnit...

Good huntin to ya.....

safetysheriff · « **Reply #7 on:** April 01, 2004, 11:34:53 AM »

I've seen one deer quickly succumb to a .357 mag' out of a short-barreled Ruger; but I'd step up to a larger caliber like the man said. If you'll only have a stainless steel revolver then go with a .45 long colt if you can't live with the recoil, or go with a 5 1/2" Super Black Hawk if you can live with it. The .44 mag' is more cartridge, until you get up to the absolute heaviest of bullets, but the .45 at reasonable pressures out of a Ruger single-action will stop any deer or black bear/grizzly/hog that our Lord has put in the Lower 48 States. It'll stop elk and moose, too, with proper projectiles. If you'll go with a blued-steel revolver I'd handload for Ruger's BlackHawk in .41 mag' and never look back. Just read Paco's heavy-bulleted .41's article on sixgunner.com in the backissues section. It's a good 'read'!

I agree with the man who said go to a larger caliber is what I'm trying to say.

ps: Right now I'd buy American, and wouldn't buy a Taurus "on a bet". No disrespect intended, but I strongly hold that opinion.

handirifle · « **Reply #8 on:** April 01, 2004, 11:35:11 AM »

Thanks to all on the feedback. My intent was to re-barrel the Security Six (That's why the if possible part) but might re-think that in favor of adding a scope instead and practice to 75yds with it.

the 158gr SP seems to be acceptable to all so that is what I'll work on.

A question for jerry. You seem to be respected in your opinion and I was wondering about the barrel cut. Is this to make it easier to carry?

Jerry Lester · « **Reply #9 on:** April 01, 2004, 03:47:01 PM »

Well, going to 5.5" actually has two main reasons for me.

First, and foremost, i just like the sight picture that a 5.5" barrel gives you(on Rugers anyways). I can shoot better offhand with a 5.5" barrel than any other length I've tried.

The second main reason, is as you said, it'll be easier to pack around.

Another less important reason, but definately a plus is, a 5.5" stainless 357 Blackhawk balances a lot better than the longer version. this contributes to better offhand shooting as well.

Least of all, but still a plus is that I like the looks of a 5.5" Ruger better than any other.

.......................................................................................................

Also, don't limit your handgun practice to just 75 yards. If you have the place to do it, practice at 100+ yards as much as you can. It'll be nearly impossible to hit anything at first, but as you go along, you'll be surprised at how many hit's, or near misses you'll get on small targets. Shooting at extreme ranges will force you not to make mistakes, as even the tiniest mistake in hold, or sight picture will cause not just a miss, but a laughable one! LOL! I regularly practice at 100-150 yards with mine. When you get back down to 20-40 yards, hitting stuff like small game is a lot easier then.

Don't practice off sand bags either. Practice about 70% offhand, and 30% using field type rests. I've found this is about the odds that actual shots present you with if you're stalking deer.

handirifle · « **Reply #10 on:** April 01, 2004, 06:24:32 PM »

Jerry
Will do thanks for the advice.

J.Solo · « **Reply #11 on:** April 02, 2004, 05:59:59 PM »

Where to buy and how much for, the Remington Jacketed Flat Points?
Thanks - J.Solo

Ken in SENM · « **Reply #12 on:** April 03, 2004, 01:54:55 AM »

J

I haven't shopped for bullets in a while, since I bought 2000 the last time I bought. I got mine from Midway USA. I just checked their website, and looks like prices have gone up a bit! What else is new, HUH?

YOu can buy 100, 500, 1000, or 2000 of these, ranging in price from $7.19 a hundred to $114.22 for 2000. Of course shipping is extra, and bullets are heavy. You can buy these bullets for about 8 cents apiece at the 100 count up to about 6 cents apiece if you are willing to buy 2000.

Take a look at their catalog if you have one, or go to www.midwayusa.com and search for Remington Pistol Bullets. I think I found these on page five of several pages.

YOu may want to shop around a bit, but at the time I bought, Midway was the cheapest or as cheap as any other supplier, and they give good quick service. YOu can call them and tell them where you are and they can give you the shipping cost. It ain't bad really, and this makes for some inexpensive bullets that are really good for about anything you want to use them on in your .357. They also make these jacketed bullets in 125 and 140 grains. The smaller bullets can be good for some smaller game (coyotes for example), but if you will load the 158s and shoot them all the time at what ever you shoot, one of these days you will be a very good shot at anything up to and including deer at any reasonable range!

A bullet has to do its job, and for me that means to penetrate deeply. If it can expand a little in the process, well and good, but it must penetrate and hold together fairly well, whatever it hits on the way in. This bullet will do that if you send it along at a right smart velocity. So all you have to worry about is placing that bullet in the right spot on whatever you are shooting. There is nothing like confidence in your ability to do that from several "field" shooting positions to make that possible, and (the right kind of)practice, good practice, makes perfect. Good hunting and shooting...

handirifle · « **Reply #13 on:** April 04, 2004, 10:58:41 AM »

cknight
That was a more specific answer. I was wondering if the length justified the expense.

How much are contenders? Are they worth switching to. I already have rifles and the NEF will give me any caliber I am interested in. As far as the 45 LC I have no problems with that round, just don't like the cowboy style grips. Used to have a Ruger Blackhawk in 357 back in '73 but didn't like how it rotated in my hand with hot loads. I love this Security six grip setup so it will have to be something like that.

EricG · « **Reply #14 on:** April 04, 2004, 11:50:44 AM »

Handirifle..
Don't give up on that security six too fast...just because it's not the biggest loudenboomer doesn't mean it won't get the job done.

If you can shoot it well you've gotr most of the battle won. Work up a good load and stay within your limits it should do fine.. Look at using 180 gr hardcast flatnose bullets. They will out penetrate the lighter slugs. Here's a read for you...http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=11156

Eric

stevinator · « **Reply #15 on:** April 04, 2004, 02:15:47 PM »

I also use 357 for deer and have good results. I used win 158 gr jsp factory load with good results and 180 xtp hornady also. I use a 6'' revolver and a 10'' contender. :-)

1911crazy · « **Reply #16 on:** April 05, 2004, 02:54:52 AM »

Out of all the reloads I shot out of my 6" colt python the speer 140gr JHP was the most accurate out to 100yds. I could pinpoint shots hitting little rocks at 100yds on the berm. Just for ha ha's one day I was shooting with a LEO at the range and the gun always shot high so I told my buddy to watch that rock on the berm at 100yds and i nailed it. Then I did it a few times more just to be sure I wasn't just lucky with one shot. The longer barrel on the 357mag is also more controllable too it holds down the recoil besides being more accurate. None of the other 357 bullets came as close in accuracy like the 140gr speer. BigBill

Personally I would try the 4" barrel first with the 140gr speer's there faster and have more muzzle energy than the 158's too and they maybe just as accurate in your gun with the 4".

handirifle · « **Reply #17 on:** April 11, 2004, 05:51:27 PM »

What about ammo brands and costs?

Any preferences? I saw one post mention remington bulk ammo, but I don't want to buy 500 of anything till I see how they shoot.

Does premium ammo do any better?

Dusty Miller · « **Reply #18 on:** April 11, 2004, 07:50:14 PM »

In your original post you asked what the gun was "good for" in terms of hunting. If you are down in javalina country it should be just the ticket for them little squealers!

safetysheriff · « **Reply #19 on:** April 12, 2004, 12:12:37 PM »

I re-read your first post..... I figure a 4" Ruger Service Six is good for deer at maybe 60 yds due to the velocity from that barrel, and due to its fixed sights. If it had adjustable sights it might be good for 75 or 80yds, accuracy-wise as well as energy-wise. I'd only use it on black bear with heavy, hardcast lead bullets out of that short barrel, and at hopefully less than 60 yds. I base this on the use of a short-barreled Ruger to take one doe (fair-sized) at approx' 40 yds' with a 158 gr' jsp by American Eagle/Federal. That doe went a total of about 80 yds' before expiring. She bled out fast, actually, but the first blood took about 40 yds' to show up, and a bigger deer might have gone much further. I don't know....

I'd figure an extra 15 or 20 yds' worth of accuracy and energy if you had a 6" barrel, for either deer or black bear, given that both barrels are similar in their ability to produce velocities. I'd use 180 gr' Hornady xtp's out of a 6" barrel that is 'fast' -- for deer, and still use heavy hardcast lead for black bear. (it is possible for a 'slow' 6-inch barrel to produce less velocity than a 'fast 4inch barrel I would think)

When I give those yardages for bear, I admit that it's only based upon reading about how easily bears are killed in trees, or from stands placed over bait. I would not want to face a large black bear one on one, on the ground, with a short-barreled revolver shooting only .357's at much more than 40 yds.... It seems to me that black bears don't get all the respect they deserve as predators.

Take care.

SS'

rugerman · « **Reply #20 on:** April 12, 2004, 04:49:55 PM »

I've used my service, security and blackhawk .357s to kill deer and with good placement they will all kill deer. But my 41, 44, and 45's do a much better job and since they have longer barrels they are easier to shoot accuratly. But with enough practice and a good broadside shot in the vitals your .357 will do the job. Good luck and good hunting!

The deerslayer · « **Reply #21 on:** April 13, 2004, 10:36:38 AM »

If your good eniough with it go for it

Ringo Steele · « **Reply #22 on:** April 13, 2004, 12:45:37 PM »

Just make sure that your local reg's allow that short of a barrel...here in NC we have a 5.5" minimum.

As a thought, if you're interested in a single action, the Ruger BISLEY is a great grip for handling recoil (much more so than the plowhandle style) and is easy to shoot accurately.

All the best,
Ringo Steele

handirifle · « **Reply #23 on:** April 18, 2004, 01:10:41 PM »

Safetysheriff
This in not a "stock" Security Six. The action was re-worked (previous owner had a good smith do it all) for smoothness and trigger pull. The trigger is about 2lbs in single action (guessing) and guessing 5-8 in double. The sights are fully adjustable rear and new front. Don't know brands offhand. But they are easy to see. was out plinking with friends the other day and was way more accurate with 357 loads than 38's. Hit a discarded propane bottle 6 out of 6 at about 75 yards. I know that is about minute of elephant but I'll work with paper targets and smaller targets when I find the right Magnum load for the gun. Ithink it will be able to do it's part if I can do mine.

Ringo,
Good point, I'll check on that. With CA laws it's no telling. They do allow ANY centerfire rifle cartridge here for deer as long as it is 22 cal or larger, so who knows.

safetysheriff · « **Reply #24 on:** April 18, 2004, 03:35:03 PM »

Handi'

With those sights and that decent trigger pull I'd say you are in the game for deer, and for short-range bear that aren't too large. It'll be a good challenge either way -- one that I think you'll enjoy. I'd look for some good 158 grain loads with that short barrel to get some flat-shooting fodder for deer, and so on -- as I posted earlier. I think you're in for some fun.

Good hunting to you.

handirifle · « **Reply #25 on:** April 18, 2004, 05:44:37 PM »

now all I have to do is find a good load and then find the game. A near miracle for me, as I have about the worst track record one could have.

safetysheriff · « **Reply #26 on:** April 19, 2004, 12:27:42 PM »

Handi'

"Seek first His kingdom, and His righteousness, and all these other things shall be added unto you."

I went a 'while' without getting my first deer! Prayed a prayer of contrition because of the 'idolatry' that deer hunting had been. Asked Him to take all the value of my ridiculous hunting petitions/prayers and put it into my family instead, and its been Richly Blessed ever since........its meaning the family (and yes, the hunting, too, but that's a lesser concern.) I don't know you enough to be pointing a finger at you, because you're a good guy on these forums. But I can tell you that I made a mistake, and nothing worked 'til my priorities were made right.

Sometime let's do a post about deer hunting.

Take care.

SS'

handirifle · « **Reply #27 on:** April 19, 2004, 02:00:24 PM »

SS
Advice like that is always well taken with me. One can never place Him too high nor our family's welfare too far above our own wants and desires. No need to worry about finger pointing with me. In fact I often feel the Lord has friends tell us things we already know but cannot admit for one reason or another. Keeps us in check, I think.

One of my frustrations is not being able to travel far and the zone I live in and hunt has about 6% success ratio. Pretty bad. The mountains are steep and the brush is thick. Odd thing is, those that are successful, are quite often the same ones ver and over. Hmmmmmm. that tells me something.

safetysheriff · « **Reply #28 on:** April 19, 2004, 02:27:52 PM »

Greg Miller has a couple books out about hunting deer and "Rub Line Secrets" is one of the best I've looked at in a good while.

I recommend you study some of his material, because his books seem to contain a basic understanding of deer behavior, diet, environment, etc., while also involving some anecdotes from his many years of hunting success.

Sitting still has been a big difference in my seeing deer....even sitting still on the ground -- in either ground blinds or within the confines of a pine tree (on the ground, under the canopy of a spruce is a great 'hide' -- with some of the branches trimmed to a height of approx' 6' above the ground a mature (?) spruce will still provide cover to ground level!).

handirifle · « **Reply #29 on:** April 19, 2004, 05:31:00 PM »

All the books and videos I've ever heard about are about whitetails. It seems like I don't have a lot of problem with finding those (in Ohio), but all we have here is mulies and these suckers don't pattern very much at all. WAY too much free ranging gonig on. they do have routines but I have seen them use trails 200-300 yards apart from one day to the next and for no apparent reason (at least to me). I have mostly archery hunted these mountains and that is way out of my recurve's range. Because of the frustration, I've taken back up the gun. That plus it still gets in the high 80's here during archery season and the black flies and mosquitoes drive you crazy.

I need to get one of those netted bug suits for archery.