Author Topic: Dem politicos, demanding that troops disobey orders..  (Read 1276 times)

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Offline ironglowz

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Dem politicos, demanding that troops disobey orders..
« on: November 20, 2025, 05:05:57 AM »
   Those clowns should be charged with attempted insurrection.  ....And if any of the troops listen and act upon their demands, they should be charged with full insurrection.

    https://nypost.com/2025/11/19/opinion/dems-urging-troops-to-disobey-are-playing-a-dangerous-game/

   Obviously, if any troops answered their call, to disobey, they may be facing a court martial..  Standing UCMJ rules say..to complete the mission, then place complaints up through the chain of command.

   All those who counsel disobeying the chain of command, should be put on trial...
   
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Offline scattershot

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Re: Dem politicos, demanding that troops disobey orders..
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2025, 10:10:38 AM »
Trump has called out the communist traitors who are advocating disobeying orders. Keep your powder dry, this could get ugly.
Disarming is a mistake free people can only make once.

Offline ironglowz

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Re: Dem politicos, demanding that troops disobey orders..
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2025, 11:54:44 AM »
Trump has called out the communist traitors who are advocating disobeying orders. Keep your powder dry, this could get ugly.
   
   I hope Lance Corporal Jones, doesn't try to resist serving under an "illegal order".  Jones is in no position to decide just what is "legal", that would have to be
    decided for him at court martial.

   First question at court martial, and first hump he has to get past...  "Why did you disobey a direct order"..

    ....And the Dems won't be there to  help you either, Jones !

Offline NWBear

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Re: Dem politicos, demanding that troops disobey orders..
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2025, 06:22:03 PM »
You may want to review the UCMJ, you are not REQUIRED to follow ILLEGAL orders. In fact you may be smart to not follow those at Nuremberg who claimed “ I was just following orders”.  This was not allowed as an excuse.  The President is exempt from prosecution, EVERYONE else is NOT.  Military personnel have and can be prosecuted  for following illegal orders.

Buy the ticket but be prepared to take the ride…

Offline GTS225

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Re: Dem politicos, demanding that troops disobey orders..
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2025, 02:31:59 AM »
I'm thinking that those radical Dems should be very careful what they wish for......they just might get it.  (If/when they ever get into power again.)  T'would be an interesting defense in the face of a prosecution under a Democrat administration.  "Democrat congressmen ordered me to disobey illegal orders from the president".

Just speculating.....Roger

Offline ironglowz

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Re: Dem politicos, demanding that troops disobey orders..
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2025, 06:08:48 AM »
You may want to review the UCMJ, you are not REQUIRED to follow ILLEGAL orders. In fact you may be smart to not follow those at Nuremberg who claimed “ I was just following orders”.  This was not allowed as an excuse.  The President is exempt from prosecution, EVERYONE else is NOT.  Military personnel have and can be prosecuted  for following illegal orders.

Buy the ticket but be prepared to take the ride…
   Yes, the UCMJ says we should not follow an illegal order...  Catch 22... The UCMJ also says we must not disobey a direct order...

  Next question:  Outside the off chance that he may be a soldier or marine who is perfectly well versed in the details of the UCMJ, how does Lance Corporal Jones handle the situation?

  Does he refuse to advance..and take a chance that he is correct?  ..Or does he perform his duty, then place a complaint through the chain of command?

  Sure, if some idiot officer orders a troop to rape, pillage or slit throats of the innocent, then it is quite clear that most any court martial would clear him !
 
    On the other hand, if he is ordered to Chicago to  quell a riot, can he be quite sure he will be exonerated if he refuses to do so?

   ..And if he is not exonerated, will Hakim Jeffries and Jasmine Crock-of-sh*t ...be there to go to rescue him ?

Offline Casull

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Re: Dem politicos, demanding that troops disobey orders..
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2025, 08:43:26 AM »
You may want to review the UCMJ, you are not REQUIRED to follow ILLEGAL orders. In fact you may be smart to not follow those at Nuremberg who claimed “ I was just following orders”.  This was not allowed as an excuse.  The President is exempt from prosecution, EVERYONE else is NOT.  Military personnel have and can be prosecuted  for following illegal orders.

Buy the ticket but be prepared to take the ride…


What illegal orders have they been given?  None that I'm aware of.  And, these a**hat democrats didn't give any examples or directions as to what may constitute an illegal order.  They are doing nothing but engaging in performative politics and possibly putting some military personnel in danger of being charged, demoted or kicked out.  Of course these democrat idiots don't care about the soldiers, just their own sound bites.
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Dem politicos, demanding that troops disobey orders..
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2025, 10:00:09 AM »
I was placed in that untenable position once as a federal employee. I was a division chief with one layer between me and the depot commander.

My supervisor the director went on leave one afternoon and another division chief who was one grade higher than me (GS13 vs GS12) was left in charge for the afternoon. No biggie normally as we division chiefs all filled in as director from time to time.

But this guy was no fan of mine and had been my first line supervisor just a few years beforoe.

He ordered me to have some of my people work overtime that day. I told him I had no money to pay my folks to work. He gave me a maintenance fund cite, since I worked on the supply side I knew I could not legally do that. We argued and discussed it awhile and they he said: I am ordering you to have your folks work the overtime and use that fund cite.

I called the legal office and asked what to do. I was ordered to break a federal law and  he had made it a direct order to do so. Clearly an illegal order. He told me to write a DM to the supervison tell him that I knew the order to be illegal but since he was issuing me a direct order to do so anyway, that he must know something I do not and that I will under duress and unwillingly do as told.

I didn't even have the DM fully drafted for my secretary to type when I got a call to the directors off and to come IMMEDIATELY, I said I needed to get the DM typed and was told to get my ass to the director's off NOW.

When I got there the acting director was on the phone with legal, the depot commander, the Civilian executive assistant, the director of maintenance, the division chief over planning and who knows who all else. I was told to sit and wait until I was directed to go in.

While sitting and waiting my actual supervisor the director came back to work from being on leave. They all talked via conference call for another 10-15 minutes. They my real boss came out and told me to work the overtime if I had legal money to pay them and if not to not work the OT. I told him I had no legal way to pay them so he said don't work it.

The incident was never again mentioned to me at least. I stood my ground in the face of an illegal direct order knowing that doing it or not doing it either was likely to get me fired. My choice to call the legal office gave me a potential out but also resulted in the highest of levels of management at the installation all talking it over and deciding that the order was illegal and that I did not need to obey it. I was in a rather high level management position not some lowly private or corporal and knew for a face the order was illegal but it was given to me as a direct order so disobeying would be grounds for firing me.

My old enemy set me up but didn't succeed in his efforts. Later, several years later he got himself in pretty deep in wrong doing and was forced to resign but he was able to find another position at a different installation rather than being fired himself which he was about to be.


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Offline ironglowz

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Re: Dem politicos, demanding that troops disobey orders..
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2025, 10:25:26 AM »
You may want to review the UCMJ, you are not REQUIRED to follow ILLEGAL orders. In fact you may be smart to not follow those at Nuremberg who claimed “ I was just following orders”.  This was not allowed as an excuse.  The President is exempt from prosecution, EVERYONE else is NOT.  Military personnel have and can be prosecuted  for following illegal orders.

Buy the ticket but be prepared to take the ride…


What illegal orders have they been given?  None that I'm aware of.  And, these a**hat democrats didn't give any examples or directions as to what may constitute an illegal order.  They are doing nothing but engaging in performative politics and possibly putting some military personnel in danger of being charged, demoted or kicked out.  Of course these democrat idiots don't care about the soldiers, just their own sound bites.

  Exactly !  From what we have seen in the news..the President may order the troops to go to certain cities to complete a mission...and the Dems are now telling them that they should refuse any such order.

   Sounds quite clear cut to me !  Not to order to rape, pillage or slit throats...just to enforce immigration laws and maintain order.

  I wouldn't want to be LC Jones, when he comes before a court martial, explaining how he followed some politician's order, rather than the orders of his Commander in Chief !

Offline ironglowz

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Re: Dem politicos, demanding that troops disobey orders..
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2025, 10:27:17 AM »
I was placed in that untenable position once as a federal employee. I was a division chief with one layer between me and the depot commander.

My supervisor the director went on leave one afternoon and another division chief who was one grade higher than me (GS13 vs GS12) was left in charge for the afternoon. No biggie normally as we division chiefs all filled in as director from time to time.

But this guy was no fan of mine and had been my first line supervisor just a few years beforoe.

He ordered me to have some of my people work overtime that day. I told him I had no money to pay my folks to work. He gave me a maintenance fund cite, since I worked on the supply side I knew I could not legally do that. We argued and discussed it awhile and they he said: I am ordering you to have your folks work the overtime and use that fund cite.

I called the legal office and asked what to do. I was ordered to break a federal law and  he had made it a direct order to do so. Clearly an illegal order. He told me to write a DM to the supervison tell him that I knew the order to be illegal but since he was issuing me a direct order to do so anyway, that he must know something I do not and that I will under duress and unwillingly do as told.

I didn't even have the DM fully drafted for my secretary to type when I got a call to the directors off and to come IMMEDIATELY, I said I needed to get the DM typed and was told to get my ass to the director's off NOW.

When I got there the acting director was on the phone with legal, the depot commander, the Civilian executive assistant, the director of maintenance, the division chief over planning and who knows who all else. I was told to sit and wait until I was directed to go in.

While sitting and waiting my actual supervisor the director came back to work from being on leave. They all talked via conference call for another 10-15 minutes. They my real boss came out and told me to work the overtime if I had legal money to pay them and if not to not work the OT. I told him I had no legal way to pay them so he said don't work it.

The incident was never again mentioned to me at least. I stood my ground in the face of an illegal direct order knowing that doing it or not doing it either was likely to get me fired. My choice to call the legal office gave me a potential out but also resulted in the highest of levels of management at the installation all talking it over and deciding that the order was illegal and that I did not need to obey it. I was in a rather high level management position not some lowly private or corporal and knew for a face the order was illegal but it was given to me as a direct order so disobeying would be grounds for firing me.

My old enemy set me up but didn't succeed in his efforts. Later, several years later he got himself in pretty deep in wrong doing and was forced to resign but he was able to find another position at a different installation rather than being fired himself which he was about to be.

  So, there must be as much "slight of hand" played in government jobs , other than the military.. :D ;D

Offline Mule 11

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Re: Dem politicos, demanding that troops disobey orders..
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2025, 12:01:05 AM »
More deflection on their poor performance other then destroying this great nation which these democrats and rino’s are good at.

Offline NWBear

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Re: Dem politicos, demanding that troops disobey orders..
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2025, 06:49:25 AM »

[/quote]


   Sounds quite clear cut to me !  No order to rape, pillage or slit throats...just to enforce immigration laws and maintain order.

[/quote]

Except that “enforce immigration laws” is illegal for the military (except Coast Guard, and under a DECLARED insurrection). A slippery slope indeed if the one giving the orders doesn’t understand he law…

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: Dem politicos, demanding that troops disobey orders..
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2025, 07:36:13 AM »
Once upon a time, long long ago, in a land far, far away, I was leading a flight of AH-1G Cobras in support of ground troops attacking a village.  The ground commander, who outranked me, directed me to unload our ordinance on said village.  Now this wasn't all that unusual, but after giving instructions on how we would proceed with the attack, one of my flight leaders, a sharp first lieutenant, came on the radio.  He said "Red (my call sign), you know they are court marshalling people ( Lt. Calley) for this back in the world."  Darn good point!

The ground commander was in charge of and supposedly knew the situation and it wasn't an illegal order, but the potential for repercussions was there.  So I simply radioed him to confirm there were no civilians left in the village.  Which he did.  Problem solved.

And remember the John Wayne movie where he was a Cavalry officer fixing to retire and he gave a couple of Lieutenants an order and put it in writing so it would help at their Court Marshall if there was one?  The Nuremberg Defense I know, but there are ways to defend your actions in questionable situations.

I think, as if anybody cares what I think, that an illegal order is one that leaves no doubt, to virtually anyone, that it is illegal.  Like killing non-combatant children or the situation GB posted about.  But there are those nowadays that are trying to pervert that clear definition into "anything that doesn't feel right to me" is an illegal order.
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Offline Dee

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Re: Dem politicos, demanding that troops disobey orders..
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2025, 12:03:30 PM »
I've been given illegal orders on numerous occasions, usually on search and seizure situations, and twice involving man hunts I was in charge of. 1 from a Texas  Ranger that was put in more as a suggestion than an order, and 2 from the same chief of police.
The Ranger I advised that I wasn't in that business, and he  dropped  it, wit the chief of police I simply said thats illegal I'm not gonna do it. The 1st I showed him in the penalty code, the 2nd one he just walked away and never mentioned it again.
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Offline ironglowz

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Re: Dem politicos, demanding that troops disobey orders..
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2025, 12:10:05 PM »
Once upon a time, long long ago, in a land far, far away, I was leading a flight of AH-1G Cobras in support of ground troops attacking a village.  The ground commander, who outranked me, directed me to unload our ordinance on said village.  Now this wasn't all that unusual, but after giving instructions on how we would proceed with the attack, one of my flight leaders, a sharp first lieutenant, came on the radio.  He said "Red (my call sign), you know they are court marshalling people ( Lt. Calley) for this back in the world."  Darn good point!

The ground commander was in charge of and supposedly knew the situation and it wasn't an illegal order, but the potential for repercussions was there.  So I simply radioed him to confirm there were no civilians left in the village.  Which he did.  Problem solved.

And remember the John Wayne movie where he was a Cavalry officer fixing to retire and he gave a couple of Lieutenants an order and put it in writing so it would help at their Court Marshall if there was one?  The Nuremberg Defense I know, but there are ways to defend your actions in questionable situations.

I think, as if anybody cares what I think, that an illegal order is one that leaves no doubt, to virtually anyone, that it is illegal.  Like killing non-combatant children or the situation GB posted about.  But there are those nowadays that are trying to pervert that clear definition into "anything that doesn't feel right to me" is an illegal order.

  Spot on, Atllaw..thanks !

  Many years ago in another far away land on maneuvers.a Captain commandeered my jeep.  I was driver for an NG Colonel. I hoped he would he would step in, but sadly, he just stood there. So, how does a lowly E3 counter that?  ...Pull the coil wire, stay aboard and fight the officer?

  No, I did the only thing I had left..demanded and received hand receipt. Not much, but that's all I had left.

Offline Goldie

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Re: Dem politicos, demanding that troops disobey orders..
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2025, 02:20:13 PM »
Ironglowz I have been reading posts for years now. What  pray tell  have you not done in your life?

Offline ironglowz

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Re: Dem politicos, demanding that troops disobey orders..
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2025, 04:17:41 PM »
Ironglowz I have been reading posts for years now. What  pray tell  have you not done in your life?

   Too many things to begin to list of the things I have not done ! I have missed out on a great deal ! For example; I don't excel in any sports, never was a "ladies man",
   
   never went in for pretences, just a "what you see, is what you get", kind of a guy. Haven't traveled to several countries, that I wish I had..

    I gather you think I exaggerate, but nothing could be further from the truth.  I don't view my life as being in any way remarkable..

   ..But as you read any accounts I post, be careful to ascertain a couple cogent points.

  1) I have lived now, near 90 years, and my life's employment has not been in a single, mundane job.

  2) Note that some aspects mentioned, are accounts of events that my friends and family have experienced.  I have a extensive group of friends, and a large family,
    who are very diverse in their pursuits.

   Or perhaps I am simply too loquacious, and offer too much candor and detail in my posts !

Offline ironglowz

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Re: Dem politicos, demanding that troops disobey orders..
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2025, 04:34:16 PM »
  I have no knowledge of how serious law enforcement treats refusal of an order, but the Army (my branch) takes it very seriously.

  Of course, the UCMJ rules applies to all branches..and I suppose all 5 treat it the same. I am not saying that in such cases they always hand out the maximum penalty.

  I have only attended one court martial (as a witness).. An AWOL case when I was acting CQ.  More often, I was employed as "prison chase", on already convicted troops.

   Anyway, here's basically what the UCMJ says about refusing  a lawful order.    https://www.mymilitarylawyers.com/ucmj-article-92-failure-to-obey-order-or-regulation/

 

Offline Goldie

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Re: Dem politicos, demanding that troops disobey orders..
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2025, 12:16:29 AM »
Didn't mean to sound offensive, just inquisitive.

Offline ironglowz

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Re: Dem politicos, demanding that troops disobey orders..
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2025, 02:08:45 AM »
Didn't mean to sound offensive, just inquisitive.

   No offense taken Goldie..  Then too, GBO is the only website where I have signed onto and communicate regularly, other than my own family's websites.

  So if you notice, I am probably one of the more verbose contributors and more a chatterbox than many here, and along with living alone, perhaps that explains some of the ongoing contacts.

  Just an opportunity for an old man who lives alone, to converse..

Offline Goldie

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Re: Dem politicos, demanding that troops disobey orders..
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2025, 04:31:47 AM »
Nothing wrong with that.

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: Dem politicos, demanding that troops disobey orders..
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2025, 08:05:13 AM »
...I am simply too loquacious, ...
AH HA!  A new word!  I had to look it up!  Learned something new.  My day is complete!  ;D

I always loved trying anything I hadn't done that interested me.  I used to say, in the arrogance of youth, that there wasn't anything I couldn't do and, with a little practice, couldn't do better then most people.  Unfortunately, now that I have the time and money to do just about anything I want, I can't think of anything I haven't done that I want to!  :'(

But we digress...    :-\  Good topic for a new thread though.  ;)
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Offline ironglowz

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Re: Dem politicos, demanding that troops disobey orders..
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2025, 08:21:25 AM »
...I am simply too loquacious, ...
AH HA!  A new word!  I had to look it up!  Learned something new.  My day is complete!  ;D

I always loved trying anything I hadn't done that interested me.  I used to say, in the arrogance of youth, that there wasn't anything I couldn't do and, with a little practice, couldn't do better then most people.  Unfortunately, now that I have the time and money to do just about anything I want, I can't think of anything I haven't done that I want to!  :'(

But we digress...    :-\  Good topic for a new thread though.  ;)

 Right on, Richard, there is still so much to learn !  Which is why I cannot understand folks who take to drugs or drink, simply ".because they are so "bored".

  Hey bored fellows out there; if you are so bored, go research why and how of the Peloponnesian Wars..  Or get some hives and start bee keeping..create a nature video, or you can even build ant farms for kids..

   A million things to do ..without resorting to drugs or drink !
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Offline ironglowz

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Re: Dem politicos, demanding that troops disobey orders..
« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2025, 10:41:23 AM »
  Watch; as Sen Slotkin (D-MI) admits Pres Trump has issued no "illegal orders'.. and watch further, as a Marine Lieutenant General (3 Stars) tells his Devil Dogs, to not even dare THINK about disobeying orders..

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwkPcuzGmBc&list=PLWduohONpS_5sHz7mMSDJ1Ww0xHU45xF_

   That Slotkin seems much like our Gov Hochul  ..all mouth and that's all.

    The way she responds to more  senior democrats, reminds me of Jimmy, an 8th grade classmate. Jimmy would do any kind of stupid trick, or say any stupid thing,
   just to get in favor with the crowd..who took him for an idiot !

  It appears the Navy may call back Capt Mark Kelly...so he can face charges.

Offline ironglowz

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Re: Dem politicos, demanding that troops disobey orders..
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2025, 03:08:22 AM »
  Statement by our Secretary of War... Speaking of the "seditious six"..

       https://x.com/DeptofWar/status/1992999267967905905?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1992999267967905905%7Ctwgr%5Ed4084e4793e9677c28


  Meanwhile, the Chicken Little Democrats are running around, claiming the president called for their execution.  The president did no such thing !

  Last I heard, he did suggest they be tried for sedition, adding as a side note, that a conviction of sedition, could go so far as execution. Just adding information.

  I haven't heard where the president called for any execution, have you heard any such thing?  Please post if you have something..