40 S&W going the way of the wild goose?

[AtlLaw]

I was looking at reviews of a pistol I thought may be a good EDC.  Don't ask me what it was, old age faulty memory and all that...    But I do believe it was a police trade-in.

Anyway it was a 40 S&W caliber handgun; a cartridge I have no experience with.  In the PD I carried a S&W M10 in 38 Spl. for most of my career. And those had to be loaded with 158 gr. RN factory ammo.  So even though I heard the .40 S&W termed the "40 short and weak," I figured it had to be better then the 38 Spl.!  And also  bigger and better then the 9mm auto's we went to just before I retired. Once retired and given a choice of what to carry I went to a 45 ACP S&W Shield. 

But this author indicated that the 40 S&W has fallen out of favor and is on it's way to obscurity!  I think he said something about this being due to the advances in 9mm ammunition.

Now I don't take gun writer's words as Gospel but it got me thinking.  Has anyone seen any indication of the 40's decline in popularity?

[JustaShooter]

I have, in both civilian and law enforcement use.  Many LEAs have been dropping the .40S&W for years and going to the 9mm.  And during the last ammo shortage, .40 ammo was hard to find at any price. 

But there are still plenty of folks who prefer it, so I don't think we're ready to read its eulogy just yet.

[Graybeard]

Police departments are dropping it like a hot horseshoe. Too many women and sissy men can't take the recoil of it. That's the REAL reason the FBI dropped it and went back to the 9mm. They are hiring too many folks who've never fired a handgun until joining and they can't take the recoil.

I'm old and worn out, 80 now, and my hands are eat up with arthritis. I can't take the recoil of it in a S&W Shield, found that out the hard way. But I can still shoot my two full size S&W M&P .40s. Recoil from it is sharp, more so than the .45 acp which to me is easier to handle than the '40 in same size guns.

Just my opinion but I like it better than the 9mm or the .45acp as a defense gun.

[Dee]

Departments don't weedout non-hackers anymore. They pass new policies, and re-equip. There are damn few women cops that can handle a grown man that doesn't want to be arrested. Take away the tazers, and pepper spray, and it drops to near zero.
Sadly there are even more men that fall into the same group. With all the electronic technology people go into law enforcement thinking they'll never have to actually fight anyone. Experience shows that pepper spray, and tazers don't work on everyone.
I remember the days when rookie cops lasted 3 or 4 days on the street, and quit when they found out that not everyone was afraid of the cops, nor respected that badge.
If you ever backed down, everyone in the county knew about it in a week, and your career was over.

[ulav8r]

5 or 6 years ago my sister was looking for a pistol more powerful than her .22.  I let her shoot my .380 Llama, and my 40 S&W Firestar.  The two guns are about the same size and she preferred the Firestar.  She ended up buying a 9mm and later a 32 Auto.  Both were used guns that she thought she got good buys on from private sellers.


Personally, I can tell the 40 has a little more recoil but is not at all objectional.  I bought a new 9mm about 4 years ago but have not fired it yet, so can't really compare.

[Lloyd Smale]

not going out of style at my house. it and the 44 mag are my two favorite handgun rounds. i chuckle at the better bullets for 9s making them equal. same bullets are available tor the 40 and even the 45. dont know what world the 9 is equal to a 40 but its not the one i live in! i shoot more 9s than anything but because its cheap! uses less powder and lead to plink and shoot 10k over the summer and it adds up.  but it aint no 40. 40 isnt going anywhere. millions of just glock 22's and 23's out there being shot. keep in mind 90 percent of all those law enforcement 40s that departments wasted money getting rid of so girls and wimps that cant shoot anyway dont cry are still out there being used. isnt like they were destroying them. ive got two police trade in 22's and 4 police trade in smith 38s. i hpoe they get bored with 9s and switch to something different. i love half priced police trade ins!

[AtlLaw]

That's the REAL reason the FBI dropped it and went back to the 9mm. They are hiring too many folks who've never fired a handgun until joining and they can't take the recoil.

I've never been all that impressed by the FBI.  Most of the agents I knew were legends in their own mind...    And as far as the agency's choice of handgun calibers go, they jump around more on what they consider the perfect caliber then I swapped perfect girlfriends back in the day!  Remember the 10mm?
Believe me, I could go on and on about FBI's "policies" as well as the other agencies/departments that take anything the FBI says as if it came down from the Mount. 

I'm old and worn out, 80 now, and my hands are eat up with arthritis. I can't take the recoil of it in a S&W Shield, ... Recoil from it is sharp, more so than the .45 acp...  I like it better than the 9mm or the .45acp as a defense gun.

Well, I'll be 80 next month but fortunately (?) the arthur is/was relegated to my hips.    Which means I have to stand and fight should the need arise!     Fortunately I never considered the recoil from the .45 Shield that bad.  Nor any of the 9mm's with the latest hot SD loads. Maybe I'll rent a .40 at the gun club just the have something as a base line.    But tell me, if you don't mind, why do you prefer the 40 over the 45?

I remember the days when rookie cops lasted 3 or 4 days on the street, and quit when they found out that not everyone was afraid of the cops, nor respected that badge. If you ever backed down, everyone in the county knew about it in a week, and your career was over.

Amen!    Made me remember when I first got on the street.  As a rookie roustabout my Lt. or Sgt. would consistently assign me to the worst beats in the City.  Usually the ones containing at least one housing project.    Learned a lot about big city policing and I never felt outgunned... at first!

[Graybeard]

I like the .40 over the .45 cuz it has enough velocity I am confident of good bullet expansion. I'm just not fully convinced the .45 acp JHPs will expand going so slowly. I kinda like a defensive round to have 1000 fps or a bit more for that reason. Most all .40 rounds do that, only the lighter weight .45s do.

Having said that my two S&W M&P .40s serve as home defense guns. Both are loaded with Speer Gold Dot 165 JHPs. Both have night sights and CTC lasers on them. My S&W M&P .45 is a truck gun but I pretty much never put it on my hip. These days I most always carry a S&W Shield EZ loaded with Speer 115 Gold Dot JHPs. I'm toying with going to the S&W Equalizer which is the same as the EZ but uses either 10, 13 or 15 round magazines. For met he 15s are too long and the 13s are just right for my hand.

I have a S&W Shield Plus which takes the same mags so I have lots of mags for it if I do decide to go with it. I should just carry the Plus but the holster that is supposed to fit both it and standard Shield didn't fit quire properly so I just haven't yet decided to trust it. The gun hung up in it and wouldn't come out. I think I have it fixed now that I've modified it a bit. It seems to come out OK now.

I should go back to a revolver really as I no longer have the hand strength to rack the slides even on the EZ. I have to shift the gun to left hand and use right hand to rack the slide.