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Offline seacoastartillery

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A Cannon Discovery Trip
« on: February 14, 2013, 06:30:04 PM »
     This trip we are on now was to be just another 7" Brooke delivery trip, interesting when you are setting the gun up at the customer location talking with them about artillery, history and such, but not much beyond that.  On the way back, just as we approached Des Moines, Iowa, we looked at the map and I pointed south, so Mike turned south.  Then began the mad scramblr to justify adding a week or so to the delivery trip.  Bingo, a lonely cannon jumped off the national list under Kansas.

     In a Caney, Kansas cemetery, lies a lonely, but elegant tube.  It is an original 6 Pdr. "Walking Stick" Model of 1819.  Long and slender, with a trumpet-like muzzle swell, it wasn't known for strength, but when made from steel, it will have plenty.  One problem exists, however, when we got interested in this model two years ago, we found that there is no existing drawing Anywhere.  By close of business tomorrow, there will be.  We will also make a breech drawing of the big 10" Seacoast Howitzer in Newton, Kansas as well.  The Big Guns by Olmstead, Stark and Tucker does Not have that view, but we will have it by the end of this trip.

     A visit to Tulsa, OK is in order too; a special gunsmith friend lives there.  Beyond that, we always wanted to see northern Mississippi too, so why not go there?  Never have been to Shilo Battlefield or Corinth or towns nearby, could be interesting; we will see.  On the way back to Colorado, Memphis, TN and BBQ is quite a lure too.  Never have been to the "Rendezvous".  We, have been to Neeley's Interstate, but not any "dry rub" place as yet. 

Tracy & Mike


When Mike and I seek out cannons all over this great country of ours, we also try to pay some attention to three architectural types.  We like Lighthouses, Seacoast Forts and Gazebos.  Found the photo of the gazebo below some time ago.  Unusual park name too.  Sure would like to find where this one is located and visit it too.

Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline RocklockI

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Re: A Cannon Discovery Trip
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2013, 07:32:17 PM »
I agree a gazebo would be nice in Mikes backyard  8) .
 
Gary
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Offline de_lok

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Re: A Cannon Discovery Trip
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2013, 07:55:54 PM »
     This trip we are on now was to be just another 7" Brooke delivery trip, interesting when you are setting the gun up at the customer location talking with them about artillery, history and such, but not much beyond that.  On the way back, just as we approached Des Moines, Iowa, we looked at the map and I pointed south, so Mike turned south.  Then began the mad scramblr to justify adding a week or so to the delivery trip.  Bingo, a lonely cannon jumped off the national list under Kansas.

     In a Caney, Kansas cemetery, lies a lonely, but elegant tube.  It is an original 6 Pdr. "Walking Stick" Model of 1819.  Long and slender, with a trumpet-like muzzle swell, it wasn't known for strength, but when made from steel, it will have plenty.  One problem exists, however, when we got interested in this model two years ago, we found that there is no existing drawing Anywhere.  By close of business tomorrow, there will be.  We will also make a breech drawing of the big 10" Seacoast Howitzer in Newton, Kansas as well.  The Big Guns by Olmstead, Stark and Tucker does Not have that view, but we will have it by the end of this trip.

     A visit to Tulsa, OK is in order too; a special gunsmith friend lives there.  Beyond that, we always wanted to see northern Mississippi too, so why not go there?  Never have been to Shilo Battlefield or Corinth or towns nearby, could be interesting; we will see.  On the way back to Colorado, Memphis, TN and BBQ is quite a lure too.  Never have been to the "Rendezvous".  We, have been to Neeley's Interstate, but not any "dry rub" place as yet. 

Tracy & Mike


When Mike and I seek out cannons all over this great country of ours, we also try to pay some attention to three architectural types.  We like Lighthouses, Seacoast Forts and Gazebos.  Found the photo of the gazebo below some time ago.  Unusual park name too.  Sure would like to find where this one is located and visit it too.



Tracy & Mike,
You are in luck! That gazebo is just a few blocks from my house! It is located next to the railroad tracks downtown Iuka Mississippi. It is on the ground the rail station used by both Union and Confederate troops once stood. One block over is the original courthouse (fully restored and is a visitor center) and Mineral Springs park where there is another gazebo and an enclosed wooden bridge. Just around the corner is the Brinkley Home, one of the few antebellum mansions to survive the Civil War, and was used by both Union and Confederate Generals as Headquaters. We have a rich history here, heck, my home is built on what was once a civil war camp! I only wish we had some artillery pieces on public display................
I look forward to meeting you guys and spending a day at Shiloh Park. Note to self: stock up on batteries for the camera! ;D ;D ;D
 
Dewayne

Offline GGaskill

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Re: A Cannon Discovery Trip
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2013, 08:47:01 PM »
Hits two, three and four of a google search on "Jay Bird Park."
GG
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Offline Zulu

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Re: A Cannon Discovery Trip
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2013, 09:03:37 AM »
M & T,
If it is your plan to go through Tulsa, there is a fabulous firearms museum in Claremore, just northeast of Tulsa.  Over 13,000 guns.
This place is second to none!
I was driving through there years ago and just saw it by chance.  I stopped 30 minutes before they closed for the day and have never had the opportunity to get back.
Ask your gunsmith friend about it. I wouldn't miss it if I had the chance again.
The Davis Arms Historical Museum
 
Here it is.  And it's FREE!!
 ;D Zulu
http://www.thegunmuseum.com/
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Offline skratch

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Re: A Cannon Discovery Trip
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2013, 09:42:41 AM »
Yes, the J. M. Davis gun museum is an awesome place, well worth the time to visit.
In the early 60's I stopped in at the old hotel and got to visit briefly with Mr. Davis, a very interesting gentleman.

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: A Cannon Discovery Trip
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2013, 01:57:50 PM »
     We saw the museum 5 or 6 years ago guys, but you are correct, it's a beauty!  Gary, you are right, Mike needs one of those for shade and good looking shade it would be.

"Tracy & Mike,
You are in luck! That gazebo is just a few blocks from my house! It is located next to the railroad tracks downtown Iuka Mississippi. It is on the ground the rail station used by both Union and Confederate troops once stood. One block over is the original courthouse (fully restored and is a visitor center) and Mineral Springs park where there is another gazebo and an enclosed wooden bridge. Just around the corner is the Brinkley Home, one of the few antebellum mansions to survive the Civil War, and was used by both Union and Confederate Generals as Headquaters. We have a rich history here, heck, my home is built on what was once a civil war camp! I only wish we had some artillery pieces on public display................
I look forward to meeting you guys and spending a day at Shiloh Park. Note to self: stock up on batteries for the camera!

Dewayne


     Whoah!   Talk about coincidences!  The chances of that happening are......well........zero!   Ha!  Pretty sneaky way to get an invite, eh?  To be honest about it, we did call ahead as most of you have already figured out.  I just can't imagine anybody with the time and gas money who would not want to see Dewayne's  "Remember the Maine" Cannon before it went back to the customer.  You just don't see caftsmanship like that every day!!  The offer of a knowlegable guide to help us see Shilo Battlefield was impossible to turn down as well.   

Thank you De_Lok!!

Mike and Tracy

PS  We have fun making a Drawing of the 6 Pdr. "Walking Stick" in Caney, Kansas.  It's a good looking gun too.  Sleek and slim, we can't wait to make our first "target smoothbore", probably in 1/4 scale, about 18" long and probably 54 Cal.  Gundrilled and reamed very carefully, it should shoot very well, indeed.  By making that muzzle swell just a little bigger, it could be used for the South African Cannon Club Shoot.  DD will correct me if I got the name wrong!


Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: A Cannon Discovery Trip
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2013, 04:51:29 PM »
     Some photos are shown below from our Sunny Side Cemetery experience in Caney, KS today with creating a field drawing of the 6 Pdr. "Walking Stick" Field Gun M1819. 

Mike and Tracy are in Tulsa, Okahoma now.


Just south of the Cemetery we find grey over black painted "Walking Stick".




At least the Information Sign is in good shape.




You can see the shape of the tube here.




The muzzle with a cannonball stuck in it.




The "Trumpet Shaped" muzzle swell which is much larger in diameter and thinner than the more common, "Tulip Shaped" muzzle swell of the bronze 1841  6 Pdr.




Not being able to make out what the faint markings are, Mike makes a rubbing with a pencil and white paper.  Usually this works, "Tombstone Style", but not this time.  Too many coats of paint on this one!






Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline GGaskill

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Re: A Cannon Discovery Trip
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2013, 03:07:00 PM »
That looks very much like an 1841 6 pounder in style, at least.  Carriage needs some attention.
GG
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Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: A Cannon Discovery Trip
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2013, 06:52:53 PM »
     We agree, George, in style the walking stick is very similar.  The breech to cascabel transition is much more refined on the Bronze 1841 though and we think the biggest difference is the shape of the muzzle swell.  Look at the previously posted photo of the Walking Stick's muzzle swell and then look at the flowing sculpture of the 1836 Iron 6Pdr. which has the same tulip shaped muzzle swell as the Bronze 1841.  You can easily see the difference.  The artistic tulip VS the bold trumpet. 





     We are all caught up on interesting gunsmithing stories now and we are heading for Iuka, Mississippi tomorrow.  One story that brought me back to the 70s was the one that answered the question, "What bore obstruction was the worst you have ever had to clear?"  Our friend the gunsmith said, "That's easy, it was the revolver barrel half filled with plastic bullets used for very close target practice back then.  The instructions told you to put a standard pistol primer in the pocket at the rear of each of the six plastic cases and then to place a plastic bullet in each case.  My customer used magnum pistol primers and his first shot blew the bullet out AND the case half way down the barrel.  The next shot blew the rear of the first case and the bullet of the second out and he continued to fire until the 6th case locked the cylinder to the barrel."

     All the customer said was, "I just kept firing until the cylinder locked up, after all I hit the target every time.  Our friend worked on that expensive S&W .38 for almost 3 hours to clear that barrel.  Close fitting brass rods did not work, same with aluminum.  He figured heat would not be good, too much chance of damaging the revolver.  He figured a twist drill could grab the rifling and damage it, so he finally made a very close fitting gundrill and drilled all that plastic out and used a pointed bronze pick to get the plastic out of the grooves! 

Dewayne's house or Bust!

Mike & Tracy
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline GGaskill

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Re: A Cannon Discovery Trip
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2013, 09:31:37 PM »
The artistic tulip VS the bold trumpet. 





Looks like the move to plainness started earlier and more aggressively than previously advertised, although there aren't many pix or drawings of walking sticks around.

Are you going to publish your drawings of this barrel?
GG
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Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: A Cannon Discovery Trip
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2013, 02:44:40 AM »
   GGaskill wrote,   "Are you going to publish your drawings of this barrel?"

Mike and Tracy say,  "Sure, why not?"

   A slight change in itinerary is in order.  We will stop in Memphis today to get some BBQ at the Rendezvous Restaurant and see what's around the city.  On Monday will will continue to Iuka, Mississippi.  The reason is because after our visit with De_Lok on Monday and Tuesday, we will head south along the Natchez Trace Parkway to the Southern Gibralter.  We have heard they have a few guns and museums there.  Just a few!

Tracy and Mike
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline de_lok

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Re: A Cannon Discovery Trip
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2013, 06:05:28 PM »
Ok, the past two days have been a blast, Tracy and Mike are kindred spirits ;D , we have talked shop 8) , seen the local sights, spent several hours at Shiloh National Military Park and swapped stories of fun times with cannons. All my beer is gone, the fridge is emty, and I can't find my secret stash of Black Powder :o :o :o :o :o
 

TWO THUMBS UP ! !
 

MINERAL SPRINGS PARK IUKA MISSISSIPPI
 

THIS GIVES A WHOLE NEW MEANING TO THE TERM "BENT OVER A BARREL" ! ! ;D

Offline de_lok

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Re: A Cannon Discovery Trip
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2013, 01:24:16 PM »
More Pictures.............................. 8)
 

SHILOH MUSEUM
 

OVERLOOKING THE TENNESSEE RIVER
 

THE THREE AMIGO'S

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: A Cannon Discovery Trip
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2013, 02:59:31 PM »
     We had a very sunny, mild day on Tuesday, a great day to explore Shilo Battlefield and it's hundreds of cannons.  We did lots of walking and Mike disappeared while walking down the length of one large battery.  He counted almost the 62 cannon that were supposed to be there when he paced of 600 yards!

     The variety of 6 Pdrs. was unexpected.  Blakelys, Wiards, Dahlgrens, James, U.S. 6 Pdr. Field Guns, Confederate iron and Confederate bronze guns and rifles.  Below are a few of the 300 pics that I took.

Tracy and Mike and Dewayne


These James shells came in several sizes.  Shown is the 3.8".  At Fort Pulaski the Union used 24 Pdr. conversion rifles and 32 Pdr. conversion rifles which fired this style shell in 5.82" and 6.4" sizes to breech that fort in 30 hours.




A trio of 4.2" 30 Pdr. Parrotts stands just inside the gates of the National Cemetery near the visitor center.  These were cast at West Point Foundry in Cold Spring, NY. 




This boat howitzer's bore size was 5.82" which was a surprise to us.  I thought they would use this size on ships only.




A Federal 6 Pdr. Field Gun 1841, rifled.




The rifling is 7 groove, RH twist.



Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Cannon Cocker

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Re: A Cannon Discovery Trip
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2013, 06:49:53 PM »
Nice Pictures.  Sounds like a fun trip.

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: A Cannon Discovery Trip
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2013, 04:23:05 AM »
     Cannon Cocker,   Glad you like the photos;  with Dewayne guiding us , I think we saw all the cannon they had on display at Shilo and we learned some history too.  I think I will post a few more pics of the unusual guns we found and that might be of interest to the membership.

Tracy & Mike & Dewayne


This marking was so hard to see against the rough surface, that I took six photos and still posted the wrong one.  I missed the Blakely's Patent at the top.  The other markings are more clear; hope you can make them out.




While not a large gun, this Blakely 6 Pdr. was known for it's accuracy and in counter-battery fire that counts for a lot!  It is of a certain type, but not being super familiar with field artillery, maybe someone can step in here and I.D. the type for us?




The rifling.




Another US Bronze 6 Pdr.  This one has 15 RH grooves.  We saw a few with 10 grooves as well and the one with with 7.




This is the way I measure 6 Pdrs. (3.67" bores) when I forget to bring a tape measure with me.




Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: A Cannon Discovery Trip
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2013, 03:35:52 AM »
     Back to the Future!  Just a little discovery by the Seacoast boys who have been in Vicksburg for the past two days.  As we looked at the muzzle of the "Widow Blakely", we both noticed something looked odd.  Mike got off to one side and said, "Look here, the muzzle face is "dished"."  He was mostly correct.  I slapped the short side of the Try Square up on the muzzle face and found it to be "light-tight" in 3 random places, meaning a conical rather than a dished or spherical surface.  Just about all of you know the story of why this tube is so short, the exploding shell and instant shortening.  Mike measured the depression with a 12" Caliper and the try square, subtracting the width of the try square from the depth to get the depression which was .147" in 3.25" for an angle of just less than 3 degrees.

    The big question is this: WHY did the Rebels even up the muzzle in this fashion, which today, we rifle shooters would call a "Target Crown"?    AND, How was this done??

Frankly, we don't know.  All our thoughts are theories.  A little help, please.  Thanks.

Mike and Tracy


Louisiana Circle, one mile south of it's wartime location.




The gap.  Yes, the try square was placed top dead center to bottom dead center.




Depth measurement with the 12" Caliper at the edge of the rifling.




This figure was subtracted from the total depth figure to get a conical depression of .147" in 3.25".


Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Zulu

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Re: A Cannon Discovery Trip
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2013, 04:16:58 AM »
M&T,
I also have no idea how it was cut but here is a thought.
Sometimes, when I'm cutting a large piece of wood on the bandsaw, If the blade is too dull, it wants to follow the grain.  By doing so, it replicates the type of cut your picture shows. 
Could this be a slight warping of the sawblade that was used?
Just another theory I guess. :-\
Zulu
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Offline Double D

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Re: A Cannon Discovery Trip
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2013, 06:57:24 AM »
Good it be the compound backed out while facing.

Offline de_lok

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Re: A Cannon Discovery Trip
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2013, 05:04:31 PM »
     Cannon Cocker,   Glad you like the photos;  with Dewayne guiding us , I think we saw all the cannon they had on display at Shilo and we learned some history too.  I think I will post a few more pics of the unusual guns we found and that might be of interest to the membership.

Tracy & Mike & Dewayne


This marking was so hard to see against the rough surface, that I took six photos and still posted the wrong one.  I missed the Blakely's Patent at the top.  The other markings are more clear; hope you can make them out.







 
 
Here is a shot of that barrel I took while we were there. I tried to tweek it best I could but the sun glare was to much to clear it up all the way.....................
Dewayne
 

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Re: A Cannon Discovery Trip
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2013, 06:25:16 PM »
Here's my guess on the dished muzzle face.  The muzzle is cut off to get rid of the jagged unevenness.  After it has been cut it is apparent that not enough was cut off to clean up the bore entrance (crown).  If the cut was close but not quite enough, it might be easier to put it in a lathe and starting from the bore area, turn it to an even crown, then work out to  the edges, only taking off as much as needed to smooth it out.  The chamfer on the outer edge looks as if it was done by a lathe, which would have been done right afterwards.  These steps might have been easier than cutting the entire end off one more time? 

Offline Victor3

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Re: A Cannon Discovery Trip
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2013, 11:31:44 PM »
 I know what happened...


 "Jim Bob, you dinged the rifling last time so I'm gonna put it back from the end a bit. I aint hoisting that thing up on the lathe again!"
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

Sherlock Holmes

Offline MKlein

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Re: A Cannon Discovery Trip
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2013, 03:27:35 AM »
Here is what they did. They got their cousin Elly May to fetch her Husband/Cousin Bubba that has a 16" lathe down yonder next to momma an m's. They couldn't get it in the chuck so they drank a lot of moonshine then got a bright idea to bring in the lathe dog and cut it between centers. Jim bob got knocked in the head when it jumped out of the lathe when it cut through and they all had a good laugh.

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: A Cannon Discovery Trip
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2013, 04:49:10 AM »
      Some good ideas, fellas.  Wish we had time to comment, but the weather is closing in on Newton, Kansas where the next measurement project is on a big 10" Seacoast Howitzer near the library so we have to scoot out of Oklahoma City and get our tools up there and go to work before it's too late.

T&M
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline RocklockI

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Re: A Cannon Discovery Trip
« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2013, 07:57:19 AM »
It looks to me that it was done in the field . Maybe they put a wooden plug the muzzle there is a hole in the center of it , then they took a draw knife type cutter . One end of the cutter goes into the hole in the plug and then cut the metal back . This would only be a finishing operation after much chisle work .
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: A Cannon Discovery Trip
« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2013, 02:22:03 PM »
     Thanks fellas,  we have a bunch of good theories here.  You can take your pick, because we really don't know how it was done.  The why is most likely that those Rebel gunners wanted to clean up ALL the irregularities so it would probably be more accurate.  Did they know what we know now about conical muzzle faces can increase accuracy a wee bit?  No, we don't think so.  We believe as Gary and some others believe, which is that most of the work was done with cold chisels, as no bandsaws existed back in 1863.  Then the muzzle face was faced of in a large lathe using the cross-slide until the muzzle looked clean.  Then someone noticed a flaw near the rifling's intersection with the muzzle face.  The machinist used the compound, thanks Double D., to save the tool needless wear and came in at a shallow angle to remove as little material as possible to remove the defect.

     Thanks Dewayne, your photo came out much better than mine.  Now even I can read it.  Thanks Zulu,  Mike and I have had the blade drift more than we would care to admit while going through thick lumber.  Yep, you called it, the blade was dull !

Skidmark is quite the story teller, a regular yarn-spinner!  Cannon Cocker's lathe technique is the same idea as ours I believe.

Later I will post a few shots of today's project, but right now I'm trying to find a few good ones of the Blakely to wrap it up.  We are in Hays, Kansas tonite and home tomorrow.  Snow?  Yea, plenty is coming, but I had 26 years in NY to learn winter driving and Mike, despite hailing from California, has had the dubious privilege of driving through blizzards in Utah, Colo, Kansas, Nevada and Arizona.  Three times in northern Arizona!  So we are prepared. 

T&M
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline GGaskill

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Re: A Cannon Discovery Trip
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2013, 03:59:31 PM »
Perhaps the current crown was done post-Vicksburg.  It wouldn't surprise me in the least if it was done by someone who didn't like the crudely done one with chisels. 

The barrel burst on May 22 (siege was May 18 to July 4) so there would have been plenty of time to do the machining before the surrender assuming they could find a lathe to use.
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
--Winston Churchill

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: A Cannon Discovery Trip
« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2013, 02:49:22 AM »
     Thanks for those dates, George.  It could have happened just as you say.  Vicksburg was very wealthy city before the war and was an important transhipment port on the Mississippi River.  Lots of railroad traffic and steamboat visits made repair facilities likely for one or both of those types of heavy hauling transport.  Large lathes to handle engine parts, axles and shafts would not be out-of-place in those shops, so maybe, maybe not. 

     We made two very interesting discoveries in Newton, Kansas as we inspected the large 10" Seacoast Howitzer, Model 1842, No. 6, of 7 built and the only one left to represent that pattern.  One of these discoveries might raise the hair on the back of your necks, but we have to beat the big storm, so we will have to wait until tonight before we post the details.

One pic to show what this thing looked like is below.

T&M


Mike and the 10-Inch Seacoast Howitzer at the Library in Newton, KS.


Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: A Cannon Discovery Trip
« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2013, 06:50:51 AM »
     Too tired last night, but today I can post a full array of pics with captions by way of explanation.  Why are we interested in this Howitzer?  Probably the unusual shape has a lot to do with that.  Up close, this seacoast artillery piece exudes the feeling of power.  It's fairly long for a howitzer at 114" and no lightweight either at 14,290 Lbs.  Simply put, it has Presence. 
 
 Enjoy the pics; the surprises are placed randomly in the bunch.
 
 T&M
 
 
 The breech is what we are studying, as well as smaller details which don't appear on the official drawing from US Archives and displayed in  The Big Guns, Seacoast, Siege and Naval Guns of the Civil War  by Olmstead, Stark and Tucker.
 
 
 
 
 In this view, you can tell that the breech is a section of a sphere.  The ratchet rack is a casting, probably wrought iron, as it did not "ring" when lightly tapped by a plastic hammer as cast iron will do.  Another educated guess is that there is a cylidrical projection from the breech that fits into a closely toleranced recess in the rack to share the load placed on the rack when a lifting handspike is used to pry up on the rack to depress the gun.  To elevate the tube you pry up a little, remove the support pawl and then release the preponderance weight slowly as the pawl is re-engaged into the ratchet recess.
 
 
 
 
 A close-up of the ratchet rack, an important part of the elevation and depression gear.  Note that only two bolts attach this important assembly to the breech.
 
 
 
 
 Here I hold the long blade of the try square to the breech's spherical surface.  There is a small wedge under the end furthest from me.  When Mike put the camera down he came over and measured the gap under my end at 12".  The blade contacted the breech surface at about 6" with the wedge near 0".  This way you get two gap readings, slightly unequal, find the sum and divide by two.  This drop-off dimension will be computed later to find the spherical radius of the breech.  We backed this technique up with a shape duplicator application and then pencil transfer to paper. 
 
 
 
 
 More to post shortly..............

Here is the first discovery that we made.  In all of our trips which have criss-crossed the United States to study seacoast artillery, we have never seen a sight like this one.  There is not one hole in the breech or the reinforce to indicate a position for a rear sight or a holder for a rear sight as there would have been with a pendulum-hausse type rear sight.  There is no hole or incised line to be used to hold a front sight either.  After tippy-toe inspection to avoid climbing on the cannon or cannon pedestal, we are about 95% sure that this very unique sight is a front and rear combination sight.  The length and narrowness of the groove (3.287 X .187") indicate a method of sight alignment.  Elevation is another thing entirely, but the designer thought of that too!  The groove bottom is angled, based on the sight's top surface.  We expected it to be angled upward as you go toward the front, but SURPRIZE, it's not.  No it is much more sophisticated than that.  It is angled downward so that a number of degrees of automatic elevation are calculated to bring the howitzer to bear on a ship at the howitzer's Point Blank range,  the range at which you get a hit from 0 to X number of yards with the same sight setting.  Our SWAG for this 'X' number is 300 yards based on trajectories of similar guns.  At distances beyond that, field expedient sights (shaved match sticks, filed pennies, etc.) can be fashioned using that slot for alignment only.




A complex shape, filed from a casting and smoothed with abrasives.  This is pure craftsmanship, gentlemen.




Cyrus Alger & Company on the right trunnion face.




1844, the date of casting on the left trunnion face.





More after lunch.......





 
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling