Author Topic: THE SOFTEST SHOOTING 1911 (Read 7241 times)

williamlayton · « **on:** January 31, 2013, 01:13:35 PM »

How would you build it ? Wide body? 6 inch ? 5 ot 6 compts ?
At my old age I was just thinking I would like to carry one a bit longerand I aint gettin any younger.
Sharon talked a little bit about her wide body comped Para.
Blessings

SharonAnne · « **Reply #1 on:** January 31, 2013, 02:50:11 PM »

for a soft shooting 45 I would start with a heavy bullet. 230grs minimum. There are heavier slides made in 5" length. Of course a 6" slide not only gets you more slide weight but also the weight of the longer barrel. For the most weight in a 6" pistol you use a 5" slide and then add a slide shaped weight out to 6". You can add a tungsten spring cap. They weigh 0.5oz all by themselves. A tungsten guide rod adds mass. Of course this results in a heavy pistol but we know weight softens recoil. I would also use a Wilson or EGW square bottom firing pin stop. If you are inclined to the 2011 pistol they now make a steel grip.

I would not recommend a comp for a carry gun. The muzzle blast is horrendous and should not be used without hearing protection.

Casull · « **Reply #2 on:** January 31, 2013, 04:11:54 PM »

They all shoot soft. But, then again, my idea of fun is running a box or two of .44 or .454 through one handed. Seriously, I enjoy handgun recoil (but not rifle or shotgun so much - go figure). I find 1911's very mild and pleasant to shoot.

Victor3 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 31, 2013, 10:45:59 PM »

Maybe one of these?

Or one of these...

Or this (Kimber 1911 A-22)?

I know, I'm a lot of help.

williamlayton · « **Reply #4 on:** January 31, 2013, 11:47:38 PM »

It is not the weight---I do not have the strength in my hands and forearms that I used to have ----back in WWI----to manage the recoil as well as I need to.
I do alright shooting slow---takeing time to get back on target---but---well--you know----slow.
Blessings

Mike in Virginia · « **Reply #5 on:** February 01, 2013, 03:53:14 AM »

If I were you, William, I think I'd carry that 28 you have. It's too heavy to jump much, and much more powerful than a .45. I hope I'm still in your will to get that gun.
Kidding, of course. I'm a lot closer to croaking than you.

Old Syko · « **Reply #6 on:** February 01, 2013, 05:13:47 AM »

Adding weight to a 1911, especially to the slide adds in a whole new set of issues. Yes it reduces felt recoil but for me at least, causes more difficult followup shots. I've had my right hand broken in multiple places 3 times and pinned together the last 2. For now I just grin and bear it, but before long I'll be relegated to something lighter and of lesser caliber. I know from experience adding weight won't benefit me. If you want softer on the back end, basic physics tells us you will have to accept softer out the front.

ole 5 hole group · « **Reply #7 on:** February 01, 2013, 05:42:13 AM »

I'm probably reading your question wrong William, but instead of worrying about building a 1911 to shoot "softer" - why not just shoot lighter reloads in your 1911?? Just change out your recoil spring to 12#/14# and load to 650fps or a little less.

You'll find a sweet spot somewhere in there for accuracy and it'll shoot like a 38 special with wadcutters.

If you can handle it, try 4.2 grains of VV N310 with a 185 grain bullet with a 16# recoil spring - you should find that particular load very pleasent and very accurate. I haven't chronographed that one but I would expect it to be coasting along at about 790fps.

If your looking for a load to carry as a self-defense load - I see no reason why the above load with a Hornady 185 grain XTP wouldn't work out well, if ever needed in an up close & personal encounter.

SharonAnne · « **Reply #8 on:** February 01, 2013, 07:17:29 AM »

WWI? That would mean you are in your mid 90s.

Try the Federal Guard Dog load for the 45. 165gr at around 950fps from media reports. FMJE. that is Full Metal Jacket Expanding. It is filled with some lead and polymer. On impact the nose pushes back and the polymer expands forcing the side of the bullet out expanding. No worries about a hollow point plugging up.

I used the Gunbuilder feature on SVI. It would cost $4250 and take 14-16 months for completion. I think I would buy an old beater pickup before I would spend that on a gun.

ole 5 hole group · « **Reply #9 on:** February 01, 2013, 08:37:09 AM »

Quote from: SharonAnne on February 01, 2013, 07:17:29 AM

No worries about a hollow point plugging up.

I don't think today's hollow points are influenced much by clothing etc relative to plugging up and acting like a solid. Back in the 1970's there were a few reports of that happening but unless you have some of that old but good ammo from back then - I think you're golden using today's JHP's.

Ya, ole William either had a tough time remembering his Service dates or else his ole fingers weren't messaging the computer keys the way they like to be stroked?

Mikey · « **Reply #10 on:** February 01, 2013, 09:05:42 AM »

Willie: I think the softest shooting 1911 would have to be SharonAnne, yeah, uh huh, oh yeah. I'll take one, in whatever color she wants to wear. Uh huh...yep...

Victor3: where do you get that sort of top for a 1911 frame???

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #11 on:** February 01, 2013, 09:25:38 AM »

Quote from: williamlayton on January 31, 2013, 01:13:35 PM

How would you build it ? Wide body? 6 inch ? 5 ot 6 compts ?
At my old age I was just thinking I would like to carry one a bit longerand I aint gettin any younger.
Sharon talked a little bit about her wide body comped Para.
Blessings

since you did not mention cart . the sofest might be a 38 wad cutter gun. I once had a 9mm that was quite soft with right spring ammo combo.

fatercat · « **Reply #12 on:** February 01, 2013, 10:41:05 AM »

William, join a gym. go to wal-mart buy some 2 1/2 lb dumb bells and use them. buy some rubber balls and excerise your hands. there is nothing wrong with the 1911. work on the problem. get your "T" checked. regards, richard

ole 5 hole group · « **Reply #13 on:** February 01, 2013, 11:05:19 AM »

How can you expect Willie to find his way to the gym & home when he can't remember if he served in WW1 or Nam - I doubt if he's old enough to have got in after Korea -my guess is '68-'70 and out.

williamlayton · « **Reply #14 on:** February 01, 2013, 01:34:48 PM »

I am 72---buttt----72 is not the point it is the body.
I do carry a Colt Commander in .38 super thsese days or the 9x23---or the .357, maybe a .41mag or a .45 roller M25.
I do like a 1911 and I do carry it---I am just talking about shooting at the range. I am OK with the recoil. I just don't handle it the same way I did, even 5 years ago. I lost some weight and some muscle in the process.
Blessings

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #15 on:** February 01, 2013, 05:51:12 PM »

Softenst shooting 1911 may be a 9mm with 115 grain bullets.
Half the weight of the 45 acp but a little higher speed so about 3/4 the recoil.
You could go with a 38 Super and buy 38ACP loads and change the spring.
From what I understand the comps need to have a faster bullet to drive the gas out of the comp and force the barrel down. While barrel flip is down recoil actually goes up.
Don't take this the wrong way.
One of the guys I know was making 1911's for women.
He had smaller stocks made, shorter triggers, bull barrels, shaved frames, and I thionk hydrolic recoil buffer with a guide rod.
All of this was designed to make the grip easier to hold and reach the trigger. At the same time tame recoil. He also had an option to make them in 38 super and set them up to shoot the Non +P 38 ACP loads.

Victor3 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 01, 2013, 09:45:25 PM »

Quote from: Mikey on February 01, 2013, 09:05:42 AM

Victor3: where do you get that sort of top for a 1911 frame???

Mikey - That's an AMT "Hardballer." It was sold as a complete gun. IIRC the slide/bbl won't fit on a stock 1911.

ole 5 hole group · « **Reply #17 on:** February 02, 2013, 05:13:29 AM »

Quote from: williamlayton on February 01, 2013, 01:34:48 PM

I do like a 1911 and I do carry it---I am just talking about shooting at the range. I am OK with the recoil. I just don't handle it the same way I did, even 5 years ago.

Will, just load it down to a point you enjoy. A good soft load used by the bullseye crowd back in the day was 3.2 grains of bullseye behind a 185 grain cast bullet with a 12# recoil spring. In a properly set up 1911 that particular load held 2.5" at 50 yards, so it is both accurate and a soft shooting load.

Just play around with a few loads & different spring rates until you find one suitable and enjoy yourself at the range. 72? Good for you and you're right - seems like in the "Golden Years" our minds still think like we're 18yoa and it's our body that can't keep up with our spirit.

SharonAnne · « **Reply #18 on:** February 02, 2013, 10:57:17 AM »

William, there are only 11 years between us.

DDZ · « **Reply #19 on:** February 02, 2013, 12:20:44 PM »

William, as Fatercat mentioned, I think increasing grip strength is the way to go, instead of other measures. Get yourself some grippers like the ones Ironmind makes. They make them in different degrees of difficulty. You are not to old to benefit from using grippers. Many competition shooters use grippers to increase grip strength, and I think increased grip strength is one of the biggest benefits to shooting handguns. It makes a big difference in the controllability aspect of shooting a handgun. Try it, you will even like the benefits of increased grip strength for other tasks. Just check out Ironminds web site. There is plenty of info to help you choose what to start out with.

SharonAnne · « **Reply #20 on:** February 03, 2013, 11:50:14 AM »

since you are talking range shooting there is nothing that will soften up that 1911 as a compensator will.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #21 on:** February 04, 2013, 02:11:12 AM »

If it's 45 acp you want to shoot try a 1928 thompson

you can use both hands and a shoulder ! In semi they run about what a nice out the box 1911 cost.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #22 on:** February 04, 2013, 05:21:35 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on February 04, 2013, 02:11:12 AM

If it's 45 acp you want to shoot try a 1928 thompson you can use both hands and a shoulder ! In semi they run about what a nice out the box 1911 cost.

Yea you can carry it in a violin case and wear a fedora, pin striped suit and two tone wing tips. Just keep it on the front seat of the Packard. Can we call you Buggsy?
Actually they have a new shooting event that takes place in the 20's like cowboy action only with roaring 20's clothes and gear.

AtlLaw · « **Reply #23 on:** February 04, 2013, 05:35:19 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on February 04, 2013, 02:11:12 AM

try a 1928 thompson

I posted a pic sometime back of me shooting a Thompson circa 1970 or so. Great fun!

It's so heavy it just sits in your hands thumping out 45 cal bullets!

I took the stock off mine when I carried it in my aircraft though...

williamlayton · « **Reply #24 on:** February 07, 2013, 02:15:09 AM »

SA
Please do not add to my own self-imposed madness by pointing out that we're about the same age. I want you to be so much younger than me that I can have nothing but dreams.
NOW---since you brought it up, I will remember your comment in my dreams and uncontrollable desires.
My wife does not use my computer.

Blessings

AtlLaw · « **Reply #25 on:** February 07, 2013, 05:37:25 AM »

WilliamLayton... Living proof of the old addage "they ain't no dog like an ol' dog!"

SharonAnne · « **Reply #26 on:** February 07, 2013, 05:53:41 AM »

Bill, I was pulling your leg. I am 27.

AtlLaw · « **Reply #27 on:** February 07, 2013, 06:00:56 AM »

Glad you didn't say 17... $:-\$ Ol' William woulda stroked out!

He's a Christian but he ain't dead!

You know (Back on topic before the mod jumps me

) I never considered the 1911 as not being a soft shooting handgun... $:-\$ And I shoot mine all the time! But then that's in my basement range with rubber bullets propelled by the primer...

30calflash · « **Reply #28 on:** February 07, 2013, 07:41:24 AM »

Quote from: ole 5 hole group on February 02, 2013, 05:13:29 AM

Quote from: williamlayton on February 01, 2013, 01:34:48 PM
I do like a 1911 and I do carry it---I am just talking about shooting at the range. I am OK with the recoil. I just don't handle it the same way I did, even 5 years ago.

Will, just load it down to a point you enjoy. A good soft load used by the bullseye crowd back in the day was 3.2 grains of bullseye behind a 185 grain cast bullet with a 12# recoil spring. In a properly set up 1911 that particular load held 2.5" at 50 yards, so it is both accurate and a soft shooting load.

Just play around with a few loads & different spring rates until you find one suitable and enjoy yourself at the range. 72? Good for you and you're right - seems like in the "Golden Years" our minds still think like we're 18yoa and it's our body that can't keep up with our spirit.

Hi William, I used to shoot bullseye with a Clark 6" longslide, had a full length Bomar rib on it. 200 grain swc with 4 grs. bullseye and it worked all the time every time. Real nice, comfortable load in a heavier than standard pistol makes a big difference when it comes to recoil, especially in timed and rapid fire events.

If you like the standard length you can get a rib for it, a reduced power spring also. Just be forewarned that you won't find a holster that would work for it. HTH.

Mikey · « **Reply #29 on:** February 08, 2013, 07:38:03 AM »

AtlLaw: Ah Richard (they found Richard 111, you know), Keeper of the Horses and the like, ol buddy, fellow veteran and current interpreter of statutes of all sorts, I find myself in the unfortunate but necessary position to correct yer spellin' when you referred to William as a 'ol dog'. He ain't a 'dog', he is a dee ay dubya gee 'dawg' type dawg by openly flirtin' with and expecting a upstandin' 27 year old young lady to fall for the 'dreams and uncontrollable desires' line that died (we hoped) a timely death on the west coast in the mid-60s. Actually Richard, you are either too kind or too politically correct. What the hell is wrong with ya??

William: Really. How could you use the 1911 Forum to discuss your self imposed madness and dreams fer younger womens, but since she is a 1911 shooter I s'pose I would rather see it here than read about it later. And let me tell you about your language - did you grow up in California or something like inna 50s and 60s, because that would explain a lot. Oh yeah - you need to get out to the range and shoot more, it helps you deal with the recoil better.

SharonAnne: I s'pose I should say something to you too, maybe about leadin' old men astray or something like that; but I can't, so have fun.................and be kind....because it will get back to us ya know.........