So again I ask. Would you fight and die for your gun rights?

[Dee]

I think a more realistic question is would you be willing to leave America f you loose your right to own any guns. As much as I hate to admit it, we do not have the abilities that our founding fathers did to fight against the govnmt. Back then the odds were about even. Musket to musket. Horse to horse.

Today, it would be an AR against several heavily armored soldiers with ARs and crew served weapons. Drones. Fighting vehicles. State of the art surveillance. And some serious propaganda ware fare with what is becoming a very unpopular topic- gun ownership.

Those that will try to fight against this will not have much backing from their fellow American sheeple. The sheeple will realize when it is all said and done that the have made a mistake by not taking action.

Most Americans today are quite content with their iPhones, xboxes, and flat screen TVs living a mediocre life style that us assimilated into the "politically correct" culture. Now, if most Americans would act like the Egyptians did during their election, coming together and fighting as a big opposing force?  That would be a force to be reckoned with. I don't see us doing that.

What you need to ask yourself is , "are you willing to leave this country to retain your ability to possess firearms ?"

The above is a fairly accurate description of the place we are today. I suppose one must decide if an AR15 is worth the scrap. In my opinion it would not be. There are things more important than the legal possession of an AR15.

[Swift One]

I would argue that you need to ask yourself where would you go to retain those gun freedoms?
 
Canada, Mexico, Europe, Asia, Australia, Central America? Thats all pretty much a no. Africa, Afghanistan, Palestine? Well if TV news is to be believed there are certainly parts where it looks to be encouraged. 
 
This is the place to stand firm.
 
The above article explains the problem succinctly. Add to it the idea of how exactly do they plan to incarcerate hundreds of thousands who refuse an illegal order? About how long would a group of gun owners have to resist before there was no one left to resist (cops have no real desire to be on the wrong side of a fight like this)? A steaming pile like Afghanistan is quite successfuly resisting the Army of a superpower.

Funny thing is Quiver, the Canadians are even looking our situation and laws that are trying to be passed with disbelief.  I have heard many say on other forums that they are worried for their southern friends.   
 
You cannot compare a culture of people that have been fighting off invaders for centuries (Afghanistan) with a culture of obese, fast food freaks where most of the population has a hard time getting off the xbox to go outside for a couple of hours and judge their popluarity by how many "friends" they have on Face Book (The United States).
 
Stop living a fantasy and have a fresh cup of reality.  You can blow hard all you want, but when a half dozen ARs that are being carried by heavily armored men are pointed in your face and your only back up is the barking famlily dog and crying kids- only an idiot would choose to fight.
 
I'll take up archery while you are rotting in the ground.  And I'll probably be doing it in CA.  But wait, they can still have at least some weapons. So Ill probably be shooting guns too.   

[williamlayton]

This thread is an example of people in America today.
It is the most disorganized, non-thinking, poorly thought out, piece of internet BS that I have ever read.
Folks---60% of the folks in this place don't even vote. I see folks sitting behind a computer, their names are BUBBA, they are loosers, have never done anything worthwhile and they feel like if no one can see them they can say anything they want. When it comes to doing, they are lost in a fog, and they retreat at ever chance .
Hummmm---If you are American, you vote. If it is an AR you are proud of---that is about as unthinking as saying I am gonna go get drunk and you can't stop me.
Folks, Millions of Americans have died for a plan---we have a plan before us---it will work--It has worked.
It is called the Bill of Rights.
Before you come here and spout all this macho Bs crap then you first need to get involed in the American system---vote--get out and get your folks to vote--get out and find who stands for you way of thinking and get them to run and get folks to vote for your guy or gal.
There is a plan in place and I am very tired of Bubba's who won't even vote telling me and everybody else what they are gonna do.
Folks you are not going to vote---I don't trust you to throw my paper on time if you won't even pull on your pants and vote.
This thread is only for loosers.
I made this statement and I endorse it.
Bill Close

[Dee]

I would have to evaluate that decision when it happened.
Blessings

But you have a plan?

[jjas]

In the last presidential election there were approximately 123,000,000 million votes cast.  The latest number of adults in the country I could find was approximately 232,000,000.  So that means somewhere in the neighborhood of 100,000,000+ people didn't vote.
And of those who did vote.......90% of the members of the House and Senate who ran for re-election, won....90%.........
And we wonder why we have this mess?
 

 

[BUGEYE]

It is called the Bill of Rights.
Before you come here and spout all this macho Bs crap then you first need to get involed in the American system---vote--get out and get your folks to vote--get out and find who stands for you way of thinking and get them to run and get folks to vote for your guy or gal.
There is a plan in place and I am very tired of Bubba's who won't even vote telling me and everybody else what they are gonna do.

But William, when our candidate doesn't get the nomination, our egos won't allow us to do what's right.
seriously though, I think the libertarians split the conservative vote enough to give obama the election.  I do what you advocate, but a bunch of folks here vowed not to vote, and that's a crying shame.

[blind ear]

The D C Clothsline
-

If They Come for Your Guns, Do You Have a Responsibility to Fight?
-
http://dcclothesline.wordpress.com/2013/01/03/if-they-come-for-your-guns-do-you-have-a-responsibility-to-fight/

[magooch]

As it stands right now, I cannot envision our military, or local authorities participating in a gun-grabbing effort.  Certainly not because a communist president orders it.  As a matter of fact, I don't believe the majority of Congress (the House and the Senate) would back such an operation.


I think the only way Obama could mount such a plan would be if he is able to assemble some kind of brown-shirt faction.  Who would that be?  In my book they would all be criminals and I think the majority of our population would view them the same way.  If it came down to a struggle, the majority would not side with criminals--no matter what color their shirts.


I think a lot of minds would have to be changed for folks to give in to gun-grabbers--at least out here in the West.  I think the same is true of the South--maybe even more so.

[BUGEYE]

As it stands right now, I cannot envision our military, or local authorities participating in a gun-grabbing effort.  Certainly not because a communist president orders it.  As a matter of fact, I don't believe the majority of Congress (the House and the Senate) would back such an operation.


I think the only way Obama could mount such a plan would be if he is able to assemble some kind of brown-shirt faction.  Who would that be?  In my book they would all be criminals and I think the majority of our population would view them the same way.  If it came down to a struggle, the majority would not side with criminals--no matter what color their shirts.


I think a lot of minds would have to be changed for folks to give in to gun-grabbers--at least out here in the West.  I think the same is true of the South--maybe even more so.

The people in my town have a good relationship with our police and I don't think they'll back obama.  I also have faith in our military.  obama may bite off more than he can chew if he tries to take our guns....
also a good link in Blind Ears post above...

[powderman]

The above is a fairly accurate description of the place we are today. I suppose one must decide if an AR15 is worth the scrap. In my opinion it would not be. There are things more important than the legal possession of an AR15. 

     Trouble is, it's not just about ar 15s. Huseeins and his co conspirators, the obamaites, want ALL of our guns, leaving us defenseless against rapists, robbers, murderers, even the feds. It will not stop with DEFENSE rifles as I call them. POWDERMAN. 

[Buckskin]

A lot of hot air circulating in here, even more than usual. We are not in the mountains of Pakistan, no place to hide and no place to run and no place to organize.  If our rights are taken from us, there will be a few on the fringe that will throw lead and be quickly taken down but most will stand down and surrender their weapons, maybe with a little fuss, but no muss.  The law will quickly figure out the best methods to disarm the unruly and the best way to force volunteer surrender as well.
 
Fortunately I don't think we are quite there yet as a country and I think Fiensteins bill will be shot down before the senate not even getting to the house.  This is where the true patriots must come in and keep our 2nd amendment rights in a positive light. Join organizations that promote the shooting sports and heritage. And yes, vote you boneheads! Those that sat on the sidelines are the reason we are in this mess, as well those who voted 3rd party, knowing what full well what their actions would do.

[blind ear]

A lot of hot air circulating in here, even more than usual. We are not in the mountains of Pakistan, no place to hide and no place to run and no place to organize.  If our rights are taken from us, there will be a few on the fringe that will throw lead and be quickly taken down but most will stand down and surrender their weapons, maybe with a little fuss, but no muss.  The law will quickly figure out the best methods to disarm the unruly and the best way to force volunteer surrender as well.
 
Fortunately I don't think we are quite there yet as a country and I think Fiensteins bill will be shot down before the senate not even getting to the house.  This is where the true patriots must come in and keep our 2nd amendment rights in a positive light. Join organizations that promote the shooting sports and heritage. And yes, vote you boneheads! Those that sat on the sidelines are the reason we are in this mess, as well those who voted 3rd party, knowing what full well what their actions would do.

-
Eventually keeping our guns will come down to taking an armed stand. The quote above demonstrates the effect of our indoctrination by media described in the linked article. We have rights we have been talked into being willing to give up because we lost it by popular vote. That isn't what the Secound Ammendment is about. That is what the linked article is about. The vote against us doesn't take away our right to fight back, with guns. ear
-
http://dcclothesline.wordpress.com/2013/01/03/if-they-come-for-your-guns-do-you-have-a-responsibility-to-fight/

[Empty Quiver]

As it stands right now, I cannot envision our military, or local authorities participating in a gun-grabbing effort.  Certainly not because a communist president orders it.  As a matter of fact, I don't believe the majority of Congress (the House and the Senate) would back such an operation.


I think the only way Obama could mount such a plan would be if he is able to assemble some kind of brown-shirt faction.  Who would that be?  In my book they would all be criminals and I think the majority of our population would view them the same way.  If it came down to a struggle, the majority would not side with criminals--no matter what color their shirts.


I think a lot of minds would have to be changed for folks to give in to gun-grabbers--at least out here in the West.  I think the same is true of the South--maybe even more so.

My thoughts exactly. Simply standing our ground will back them down even if they decide to ignore the Constitution. Canada finally recognized that Canadian citizens were not going to register all of their guns and finally gave up trying to do so. Yes many did, or complied in a less than full manner. But enough refused to do so that it was futile to go on with the foolishness.
 
55 MPH speed limits were roundly ignored, many experts agree it led to a general disdain for other laws that were viewed as stupid and law enforcement officers who were tasked with writing the tickets. At some point the population demanded sanity be restored. The wheels turn slowly and a simple refusal to comply will suffice I believe.
 
 As I said, there is not enough prison space for true criminals what the hell do you think they will do with several hundred thousand gun owners who simply refuse to cough up their guns? How would they even go about feeding that number of prisoners, the budget is shot right now, the logistics alone will make it impossible. The nation would not stand by and watch mothers, grandmothers, fathers, sons, and grandkids, shot for simply refuseing to obey an illegal law.

[BUGEYE]

vote you boneheads! Those that sat on the sidelines are the reason we are in this mess, as well those who voted 3rd party, knowing what full well what their actions would do.

Well said there Buckskin.

[DDZ]

The D C Clothsline
-

If They Come for Your Guns, Do You Have a Responsibility to Fight?
-
http://dcclothesline.wordpress.com/2013/01/03/if-they-come-for-your-guns-do-you-have-a-responsibility-to-fight/

I find the article to be very well written and spot on. Mr Garrison has it exactly right!

[williamlayton]

I have several plans depending on what happens.
The worse case scene is that we would be unable to do anything.
Overwhelmed is a word.
Blessings

[Dee]

William given where you live OVERWHELMED is a good possibility.

[BUGEYE]

William given where you live OVERWHELMED is a good possibility.

I thought William lived in Texas.  don't they say "don't mess with Texas"?

[twoshooter]

In a word....no. I thought the goal in a conflict was to make the OTHER side die for their ideals, not to die for your own. That was Patton, I think.

[Dee]

William given where you live OVERWHELMED is a good possibility.

I thought William lived in Texas.  don't they say "don't mess with Texas"?

William lives in a suburb of Houston. Would you want to live in a suburb of Houston with an economic collapse? I wouldn't.

Oh yea! Don't mess with Texas! Those are signs on the highway telling you  not to litter down here.

[S.S.]

“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” — Edmund Burke

Where are all the GOOD MEN......
Sound like a bunch of them here would sell their freedom at a pretty cheap price...
For those of us who have been injured and Spilled our blood protecting you, This turn tail sissy talk makes me sick...
If freedom is not worth fighting for then you do not deserve it in the first place ! Just make sure to give your guns to a real man
before you kneel and surrender them to Ceaser Obamus... 
Have you no pride in yourselves as MEN.. I would rather my family look down on my grave than to look at me as a COWARD!

Sorry Graybeard, I normally do not say there kinds of things here but this needed to be said.

[briarpatch]

S.S. How did you word your response to all of the congressman for the last 4 years on all the different subjects that would take away our freedoms and how many homes was on your precinct list to visit in hopes you could get them to vote. How many hours did you man the phones to get out the votes, How many meetings did you attend to question the local potential politicians in your district, state and country. Did you shake your govenors hand and tell him you expected him to vote for freedom. Did you get in a cat fight with a potential lady candidate because you called her a name. How many rallys did you attend where you protested the media and did you ever take over the helio pad, That forced the manager to finally come and answer questions as to why they were silent on many subjects.
Did you go to DC for either freedom rally or make two.
I'am not picking on you but unless we were involved before, now its to late. There are a few men and women out there still fighting but they are few and alone.
Now I would like to add a little realism to this whole mess.
I would advise each of you to remember or conclude that this is not a happening that just popped up from nowhere and is now on the front page. This has been in the works for many years. It has been announced many times by those in charge. They have a way and means to take all weapons, they have done it before. They have foreign militaries on this soil ready to assist. They know you better than you know yourself. You have told them everything they need to know plus some. They have made examples, Randy Weaver for one. His buddies did not come to help. Neither will yours. They have places to house thousands, they do not fear those that threaten from a computer but those that are silent
The true patriots will be done in quickly, they know them.
They control every aspect of your life. They control all medical medicine, hospitals, help, equipment, operations, times, places and personal as well as that of your family.
They control your bank account in or out of retirement as well as credit cards, credit, or social secureity.
They control your power, water, trash take out, home payments, taxes, and land value.
They control your transportion type, roads, route, times to travel where to travel and with whom.
They control your food from field to stove.
They control your kids schooling, where, when, how, what taught and when you can pick them up.
They control taxes and audits.
They control the media and radio.
There is more but you get the picture. They have been preparing for many years, you have not. Most have just crawled out of a hole and with the sun in their eyes are asking what is happening.  For those that are asking or are for the first time courious, FDR had this to say.
"In politics not happens by accident, if it happens you can bet it was planned that way". He should know as a member of the CFR.
Again if you want to know what is happening, read       http://www.captaincanadacrusades.ca/articles/none-dare-call-it-conspiracy%5B1%5D.pdfI personally knowing myself and my fellow man, the guts are not there.  it is to late.

[JPShelton]

Dying doesn't sound like much of a plan.
I could get on board with the "fight" part, and did that very "fight for my rights" thing in the ballot box.  So, I'm cool with that.
The dying part?  Eh, not so much....   Too much to live for... 
So, I kind of left that dying part out of my planning.  It's still a free country, though...  Well, free-ish, anyhow.  If somebody else's plan involves dying, I guess that's their right, but I'd encourage them to come up with a better plan with greater odds of long-term sustainability.
JP
 

[Redtail1949]

If they started at one end of town going to every home to get the guns, there would be those that would take to the hills so to speak. That is because they would have some time. those that chose to stand and fight will certainly die right there.
however, in most cases the reality will be much different. several cars of swat fbi atf will slid up to your home at 3 a.m. while you are sleeping after a few flash bangs and a tear gas cannister or two in the first 10 seconds. windows busted on all sides doors torn down front and back. yelling by kids and wife. you will reach for your trusty .semi auto pistol if you have the time and most probably you will be so confused so scared you will not fire a shot. in less than 5 minutes you will be handcuffed and off to the station leaving your family crying and screaming in the distance. ( believe me i do know)
a smart man will realize what is a stake and if he wishes to be of any assistance to his family or any resistance he will chose to live and fight another day.
much has been said about not having a chance against the military or heavy armed swat police and that is true. you would never survive a head-on confrontation. 10 or 20 men crack shots all with their best most accurate semi auto rifles would all fall to any head-on confrontation of our military. yep i know all the sayings  "i will at least take some of them with me" and that crap. SO! you will still be dead and that is it. to have any effect you must live to fight today and fight the next day and fight the newxt month.
the only way to resist and live is to follow the examples in history both past and present day. use your heads live to organize with others for a guerrilla war that will be the only chance you will have. do not say or think it can not be successful history both past and present have proven many times it can.
thats where you "prove" your bravery if you must, thats where you put your marker down for freedom and liberty not in the bedroom of your home with you children running about in the line of fire. if you do it there your family could just as easily be buried with you.
i am willing to bet that most will not resist if the bad things come at 3 A.M. with their life and their families lives at stake...lots of heavy things to do and think about in a very short time.
aaaaw hell...just my two cents

[williamlayton]

Now, we are back on track.
Blessings

[Zulu]

William given where you live OVERWHELMED is a good possibility.

I thought William lived in Texas.  don't they say "don't mess with Texas"?

We also say "Come And Take It" here in Texas.
Zulu

[Dee]

Yes, and in Waco Texas, they (the Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms Agents) did "come and take it". With snipers, military tanks, and military heliocopters. And several "million" OTHER TEXANS "WATCHED". For quite a while. And did nothing. And after the bodies of the men, women, and children were dug out of the ashes. Several million TEXANS STILL DID NOTHING. And years later, several million Texans still haven't done anything. They went right back to grazin. Just like you and I did.

[yellowtail3]

So again I ask. Would you fight and die for your gun rights?

Just ruminating, here, any of you LE types reading this board & making list of who is naught and who is nice... but it's an easy line, from my cold dead hands but when the letter arrives saying your tax refund is being withheld because you've not registered that AR (or Model 700) they think you've got, who is gonna shoot the mailman? Or drive down and shoot the taxman? Confiscation is unlikely, because that's a battle the gov't would rather not pick, but they can do plenty of damage short of that. If it comes to confiscation, and it's been passed in house/senate/signed by president whoever. On the other hand... there's plenty of gov't types and agents of the state we could do without, and if they get plinked whilst gun-grabbin', I won't lose sleep over it.


I think I'll just hold onto my cards

[Buckskin]

All out violent rebellion against state authorities is likely a loosing proposition for the most part when you're outgunned. To rebel against parts of system in order to keep parts of a system you like, is also a loosing proposition.
.
Models for modern rebellions against fascist totaltarian rule already exist, and would rely on very long term strategies. First, State Security forces must be made to feel very insecure personally. Secondly, a rebellion movement should operate as independent cells even down to the single person level. Third, the cost of the State Securitate to carry on business must be made very high. Choke and chaos operations could do this. Fourth, valid rebel movements always give up consumerism, retirements, and materialism and comforts. Fifth, thinking in terms of short time movemnets is futile, oppressors will not go quietly into the night,,,,think long term constant agitation over years. Six, basic food and clothing needs would require creation of alternative decentralized non-corporate supply.  Seven, a provisional government must be established.  Eight,, in the modern age probably more important than anything, including weapons, is the maintenance of an information stream, counter to propamedia, such as an internet and alternate media.  So on and so forth.
.
.......TM7

 
That sounds a lot to ask of people who won't even do the little things to protect their freedom. Like vote and encourage others to vote...  But hey, all this Rambo talk is fun to read anyway...

[mrcooper]

All this talk about voting, i have voted in every election since 1958 i do not believe the votes are counted honestly i here that their was 2 states that Romney never got a vote. WE HAVE LOST OUR COUNTRY AND I AM A VETERAN.