308 or 30-06?

[superd]

Any way you look at it 5 1/2, 7,8 or 10 pounds. guns being equal weight and the accuracy examples I have experienced the 30-06 goes first.
 

[nomosendero]

Watching a moose get hit with a standard .308 load... then watching them get hit again... and again....  is stupid.  Believe me. 


.308 is a fantastic deer rifle.


But you get a .30-06, that can push a 180grn+ bullet in the high 2000's all the time and break a moose shoulder and anchor him...  then you don't have to deal with that situation.


But, all you guys arguing here, I'm sure the biggest game you've ever seen was a "giant" 300 pound whitetail...  which hell a .220 swift would take care of all day.


.308 - Great caribou round!  Because they are like deer.


Even if we are only talking 200fps for velocity, that is a 400ftlb difference in energy up at 180 grainsish.  If I'm shootin something big..... moose, elk, bears, I'm gonna want every single little bit of that energy.  It's all about bones!  Shooting something in the heart and lungs is great... but animals still have minutes to run from.... (or to) you, in which they can cover lots of ground. 




Speaking of speed and energy, you guys seen the claims for hodgdon suprform for 30-06???  Holy....., within normal pressure ratings it is pushing a 165 grain bullet at 2974, that's before I compress their load.   


I've never seen that powder anywhere.  But when I do if tests come positive I'll let you know.

Yes, let us know, I hope the vel. claims are true. But, RL 17 was supposed to change everything & it did help some, but sadly alot hype in some of those RL17 stories.

I haven't seen anyone say the 30-06 does not have an advantage for hunting big animals. 200fps is 200fps with the 180's.
Concerning hitting a big animal with a 308 or 30-06 with a 180ish bullet, I don't see it bouncing off with the 308, but smashing bones with a 30-06, as a general statement, because it makes no sense, with no consideration for range.
Now, to say you want to shoot big animals further with a 30-06, which still not be long range, well now that makes sense.

On a different forum, I saw a guy comment that a 180gr. in 308 was too light for Moose at 150 yds. (he said he saw it), but yet
he said he killed a couple of Moose at 300 yds. with his 30-06. Oh, really, I call that moronic!!
Decided to take a look at a 308 and 30-06 with 180 Partition.
With a MV of 2800fps the 30-06       has 2,341 fps @ 250 yds. & 2,190 # energy @ 250 yds.
With a MV of 2600fps the 308Win    has 2,331 fps @ 150 yds. & 2,172 # energy @ 150 yds.
With a MV of 3100fps the 300WM    has 2,339 fps @ 400 yds. & 2,187 # energy @ 400 yds.
The 180 Partition has no idea which case it is being fired out of.
I am not saying a Moose should be shot @ 400yds or 250 would be max. yards to shoot a Moose with a 30-06, only showing the effect of different Muzzle velocity and how it relates to downrange energy. One thing for sure, a Big Elk or Moose shot at 150 yds would be in the exact same danger as an animal shot at 250 with a 30-06.
Fun stuff!!

[corbanzo]

Either way a 200 fps gain in velocity is still 15% increase in energy, which as far as penetration goes id take anyway. 

I would be hesitant to shoot a big moose at 300 yards with an -06 unless I was on terrain easy to track and not too much water.... Because it would be a boiler room shot not an anchor shot. 

[Swampman]

Either way a 200 fps gain in velocity is still 15% increase in energy, which as far as penetration goes id take anyway. 

I would be hesitant to shoot a big moose at 300 yards with an -06 unless I was on terrain easy to track and not too much water.... Because it would be a boiler room shot not an anchor shot.

More moose have been killed with the .30-30 than the .30-06.

[SHOOTALL]

Either way a 200 fps gain in velocity is still 15% increase in energy, which as far as penetration goes id take anyway. 

I would be hesitant to shoot a big moose at 300 yards with an -06 unless I was on terrain easy to track and not too much water.... Because it would be a boiler room shot not an anchor shot.

More moose have been killed with the .30-30 than the .30-06.

 
at 400-500 yards the 3006 is a 30-30 

[FPH]

I would be hesitant to shoot a big moose at 300 yards with an -06 unless I was on terrain easy to track and not too much water.... Because it would be a boiler room shot not an anchor shot.

If you can't put down with the first shot, you shouldn't be shooting them with the intention of having to track them.

[SHOOTALL]

I would be hesitant to shoot a big moose at 300 yards with an -06 unless I was on terrain easy to track and not too much water.... Because it would be a boiler room shot not an anchor shot.

If you can't put down with the first shot, you shouldn't be shooting them with the intention of having to track them.

quite !

[corbanzo]

I would be hesitant to shoot a big moose at 300 yards with an -06 unless I was on terrain easy to track and not too much water.... Because it would be a boiler room shot not an anchor shot.

If you can't put down with the first shot, you shouldn't be shooting them with the intention of having to track them.

quite !

You guys obviously haven't hunted much.  You shoot most anything in the boiler room, there is a good chance it is going to run. 


You are telling me that every single animal you have hunted have died right there on the spot???  Cause... I call BS.


Obviously you aren't from moose country, because moose hang out around a lot of rivers and marshes, and having a moose run into a river or a marsh isn't very fun at all.


So once both of you have spent your whole lives in Alaska.... go ahead and get back to me on that one.  otherwise.....

[SHOOTALL]

I would be hesitant to shoot a big moose at 300 yards with an -06 unless I was on terrain easy to track and not too much water.... Because it would be a boiler room shot not an anchor shot.

If you can't put down with the first shot, you shouldn't be shooting them with the intention of having to track them.

quite !

You guys obviously haven't hunted much. Oh but I have You shoot most anything in the boiler room, there is a good chance it is going to run.  I agree and please point to my post where I said they would drop dead .


You are telling me that every single animal you have hunted have died right there on the spot???  Cause... I call BS.Again point out a post of mine where I said such . The BS is your sugesting I did.


Obviously you aren't from moose country, because moose hang out around a lot of rivers and marshes, and having a moose run into a river or a marsh isn't very fun at all. Once more please point out my post , I have the opposite view . Shoot it in water where legal on next to water as it is easier to handle in water . The outfitters I hunted with in Manatoba would clean them in water and find a limb over the water to hang them in to cut up.


So once both of you have spent your whole lives in Alaska.... go ahead and get back to me on that one.  otherwise.....and likewise once you learn to read and comprenhend ....otherwise

[FPH]

Being from Alaska obviously doesn't mean you can automatically hunt or shoot......you have proven that.

[Swampman]

Either way a 200 fps gain in velocity is still 15% increase in energy, which as far as penetration goes id take anyway. 

I would be hesitant to shoot a big moose at 300 yards with an -06 unless I was on terrain easy to track and not too much water.... Because it would be a boiler room shot not an anchor shot.

More moose have been killed with the .30-30 than the .30-06.

 
at 400-500 yards the 3006 is a 30-30 

My point exactly.....

[corbanzo]

So you guys think dropping a moose in a marsh or a lake is a good thing?


Well it is not.


And seriously, if you are going to say I can't hunt or shoot right, you are saying every single animal you shoot drops on the spot???  That's what I'm reading.  FPH claims I cannot because all my animals don't drop in one shot.


FPH, every single animal you have shot drops dead right on the spot?  Every moose and bear and deer and hog and every single one?


Get off your pedestal.


And clean an animal in a river?  Getting meat wet is the worst thing you can do in the woods, especially in open water.  What a joke.

[Drilling Man]

  For me... 300 yards, 30-06, 200NP = dead moose!!  No problem at all, and a high shoulder shot is why i use 200NP's...
 
  I've shot a lot of big game, i don't have much use for shooting over 300 yards, and i mostly shoot at 200 or less.
 
  DM

[FPH]

So you guys think dropping a moose in a marsh or a lake is a good thing?


Well it is not.


And seriously, if you are going to say I can't hunt or shoot right, you are saying every single animal you shoot drops on the spot? ??  That's what I'm reading.  FPH claims I cannot because all my animals don't drop in one shot.


FPH, every single animal you have shot drops dead right on the spot?  Every moose and bear and deer and hog and every single one?


Get off your pedestal.


And clean an animal in a river?  Getting meat wet is the worst thing you can do in the woods, especially in open water.  What a joke.

I don't follow your logic.  We could trade barbs all day.  You do as you wish, and so will I.  Take care.

[45-70.gov]

what  is wrong with the water on the meat???

[corbanzo]

Wet meat = bacteria growth.


We do a lot of river hunting, and a lot of backwoods hunting that takes us a few days to get out.  Getting water on the meat, especially swamp water will spoil your meat much faster.  Keeping it clean and dry in those situations is of the utmost importance. 


And dropping a moose in a marsh or lake is hell.  Trying to butcher a moose in the mud you can't get a rig to (or don't have one in the first place) is a big pain in the ass. 


When you are a few days out.... even a week from getting out sometimes, getting that meat cool, dry, hung, and covered as much as possible is 100% necessary.  The one time I would put meat in water is covering it in a plastic bag, and hang it in a stream to cool it off quickly.  But even with this method, it is in the plastic bag only to cool it off to keep the water off, and as soon as it comes out of the stream, it comes out of the bag to get air to it. 


I've used jugs of water to wash meat on elk hunts in AZ when we were throwin it in a truck and heading out that day.  But moisture is a death sentence to meat if it needs to hold any length of time.

[Drilling Man]

  My experience is, you can get the meat wet, you just have to wipe it off after and let it air dry...
 
  Yes, i've shot moose in a swamp, on the edge of a lake and on the edge of an beaver pond.  Yes, the meat will get wet, but i wiped it off and hung it to dry... NO problems at all.
 
  DM

[nomosendero]

Wet meat = bacteria growth.


We do a lot of river hunting, and a lot of backwoods hunting that takes us a few days to get out.  Getting water on the meat, especially swamp water will spoil your meat much faster.  Keeping it clean and dry in those situations is of the utmost importance. 


And dropping a moose in a marsh or lake is hell.  Trying to butcher a moose in the mud you can't get a rig to (or don't have one in the first place) is a big pain in the ass. 


When you are a few days out.... even a week from getting out sometimes, getting that meat cool, dry, hung, and covered as much as possible is 100% necessary.  The one time I would put meat in water is covering it in a plastic bag, and hang it in a stream to cool it off quickly.  But even with this method, it is in the plastic bag only to cool it off to keep the water off, and as soon as it comes out of the stream, it comes out of the bag to get air to it. 


I've used jugs of water to wash meat on elk hunts in AZ when we were throwin it in a truck and heading out that day.  But moisture is a death sentence to meat if it needs to hold any length of time.

One of my friend's went on an Alaskan Moose hunt. He had one chance on a Moose, which was standing in water. It was his first trip to AK & for Moose, he did not know how to deal with it & passed on the shot. He visualized the Moose falling in the water & was uncertain. He is an experienced hunter for Elk & other big animals, but that's another story. He sold me the rifle he had on that trip, a M70 Featherweight with a Brown Precision stock in 30-06AI. He wanted me to have the rifle & sold it to me for a song, along with the AI dies & a ton of fire formed brass, cheaper than I could have bought an ADL or something. I have killed alot of game with that rifle.

[scootrd]

Great read (even if you don't agree with his favorite) for deer hunters and why this one hunter choose neither 308 nor 30-06

Read full article here - http://www.buckmasters.com/my-favorite-whitetail-cartridge.aspx

My Favorite Whitetail Cartridge
 
By Jon R. Sundra
Excerpts -

I have a favorite, and my reasons are hardly arbitrary. Rather, they’re based on what I consider to be a cartridge that is the perfect balance of size and power for hunting whitetails under typical hunting conditions.......

Anyway, I should point out that I arrived at the 7mm-08 not because I’ve slain umpteen deer with the cartridge, but because I’ve slain umpteen deer with many different cartridges, including the 7mm-08, from the .223 Rem to .300 magnums........

Virtually everything I’ve said about why I like the 7mm-08 applies to the .260 Rem and the .308 Win While I like the 7mm version best, like I said before, I wouldn’t lose any sleep if I had to use either of the other two...........

As for the .308 Win and its nearest rival, the .30-06, when pushing the same-weight bullet, the .308 arrives at 300 yards with 92 percent the energy of the ‘06, and impacts only a half inch lower. To put in another way, the .308 is at 285 yards what the .30-06 is at 300, no more, no less.

So there you have it: my rationale for the 7mm-08 being my favorite whitetail cartridge


Personally , I wholeheartedly concur
Semper Fi

[SHOOTALL]

The guys in Canada shoot them ans clean them in the water all the time. Their camp is a large boat . They have no problem with bad meat. Is water in AK that filthy ?

[D Fischer]

Absolutely amazing how many words can be printed about these two cartridge's. For all piratical purposes, they are so close to the same, it doesn't really matter. Now this is gonna blow your mind. The reason the 308 was developed in the first place was to give soldier's something to argue about! lol

[corbanzo]

The guys in Canada shoot them ans clean them in the water all the time. Their camp is a large boat . They have no problem with bad meat. Is water in AK that filthy ?

And after they clean it the run the boat to the lodge?   I get meat cool and dry as fast as possible.  Having meat soaking wet, especially when the elements aren't going to help you cool them, and I don't bring all sorts of paper towels or whatever DM is using....
 
I guess if you didn't have to have your meat keep for 3-7 days it wouldn't matter too much.  But such is the case how we usually hunt moose. 

[Swampman]

Down here we soak our meat in ice water for a week.  That's how we age it.

[Drilling Man]

The guys in Canada shoot them ans clean them in the water all the time. Their camp is a large boat . They have no problem with bad meat. Is water in AK that filthy ?

And after they clean it the run the boat to the lodge?   I get meat cool and dry as fast as possible.  Having meat soaking wet, especially when the elements aren't going to help you cool them, and I don't bring all sorts of paper towels or whatever DM is using....
 
I guess if you didn't have to have your meat keep for 3-7 days it wouldn't matter too much.  But such is the case how we usually hunt moose.

  Cooome-on, do you think i never hunted out in the bush, where i had to keep meat for several days or even a week before flying or floating it out???
 
  I have used snow, but mostly it's warm out in the sept. moose season, so i just used my hands, wiping the excess water off the meat, then hanging it right after.  The meat dries it plenty fast doing that!
 
  Once dried, keeping it from re-wetting is the real secret...
 
  DM

[scootrd]

Down here we soak our meat in ice water for a week.  That's how we age it.

I have never heard of that.

Up north in my area , we hang 7-10 days (weather permitting) keeping in the mid /upper 30's if possible.

I could see if you were in an area that was hot and needed to keep meat "on" Ice to keep cool like big ice chest etc...
But then I would have thought you would want ensure you drain the water away.

How many other on this thread soak in Ice Water?

[Drilling Man]

Down here we soak our meat in ice water for a week.  That's how we age it.

I have never heard of that.

Up north in my area , we hang 7-10 days (weather permitting) keeping in the mid /upper 30's if possible.

I could see if you were in an area that was hot and needed to keep meat "on" Ice to keep cool like big ice chest etc...
But then I would have thought you would want ensure you drain the water away.

How many other on this thread soak in Ice Water?

  I'm betting it won't work UNLESS you throw in a couple 30-06 220's in the water with it!!  ha ha ha
 
  DM

[Swampman]

You open the drain about once a day.  The meat is so nice and all the blood is gone.  It works great on hogs too.

[RevJim]

 I grew up between Houston and Beaumont and we also put meat in ice water/drained, but often added some salt to the water. Most of the time deer season was very warm, if not downright hot.
 Here in Utah, we have the "small" Shiras, and those suckers are huge! ha. No way I want to shoot one in a lake. I would hunt with a .308 ( and I have, but for deer/deer size animals) for moose if it was a favorite rifle, but big animals and big bullets just seem to go together, ha. I've shot more game with a 30.06 (or at long range with a 180XBT out of a 300WM, equaling 30.06 terminal results) and a good bullet does wonders.

[nomosendero]

You open the drain about once a day.  The meat is so nice and all the blood is gone.  It works great on hogs too.

That is exactly what we do in AR. It is too warm to hang Deer or Hogs, so we put them in coolers iced down. We drain the water once per day & keep them there for 5-6 days. Like Swampy said, the blood drains with the water & tenderizes the meat. When I lived in the NW corner of AR we had a few days in late season cool enough to hang and age, but I actually think the "cooler method" does a better job of pulling the blood out. Of course when we go out West, we do as the locals.

[AtlLaw]

You open the drain about once a day.  The meat is so nice and all the blood is gone.

Yup, I've done that.  Just add more ice.  Two of the guys I hunt with do it to all their meat.