308 or 30-06?

[eastbank]

as i use a rem pump in 3006,there is no weight savings for me,but i can run my 3006 at either 308 with less psi or load it to a higher psi. as far as cheaper cases i buy all mine at gun shows or flea markets at .50-1.00 a box for once fired cases. eastbank.

[JPShelton]

Personally, I don't think that any so-called "thin skinned" game animal is going to notice the difference between being shot with a .308 WCF or a .30-'06.  I've taken game with both.  I could hunt happily with either.
 
Basically, for general big game hunting, if I find a rifle I like in short action rounds from .260 Remington to .308, or standard length action rounds from 6.5 mm Swedish to .30-'06, I don't fret over the caliber too much.  I'm confident I can make all of them work for the hunting I want to do and equally confident that no animal I shoot with any round from this broad group is really going to notice what I killed it with.
 
On the other hand, if the biggest game I ever cared to hunt were blacktail, whitetail, and / or mule deer, I could get by fine with just one of either a .243, 6mm Remington, .250 Savage, 257 Roberts, .25-06, .260 Remington, or 6.5mm Swedish Mauser. 
 
The .30-'06 is my favorite centerfire rifle round, though.  But while I can think of all kinds of logical reasons to defend its honorable magnificent greatness, the truth of the matter is that emotion probably plays a bigger role in my favoritism than logic does.  When I was most active in "adventure" hunting in multiple states, hunting caribou in Canada, and plains game in Botswana,  I did a lot of that with an old peep-sighted Griffin and Howe Springfield that I essentially inherited, and that rifle was -surprise- chambered to .30-'06.
 
JP

[tomtomz]

Now that MILSURP ammo is in short supply, the difference is moot.

I don't own a 7.62 NATO because I own three standard length action thirty calibers that are all stronger.

[JesterGrin]

 It is a personal Choice.

 But if I was thinking of either a .308 Win or 30-06 Springfield at this time I would pick the .308 Win as it is not far behind the 30-06 Springfield.

 Plus again at this time if you do reload and you should the .308 Win will use less powder. And if you do reload maybe you have or maybe you have not noticed the price increase of reloading components.

[tomtomz]

.308 caliber 300 WIN MAG is turning out to be a lot of fun now that I've got the rifle well scoped and dialed in.

We're punching holes in things WAAAYYY out there beyond 30-06 range, and the recoil is
not really much different now that I've cleared the mental block. In fact, recoil is really not
bad since it uses slower burning powders and the impulse recoil is less noticeable to
me than the 7.62 NATO M14 sporter rifle burning a faster and smaller powder charge.

With the WIN MAG, we've run out of frying pans out on the 500Y range

And 300 WIN MAG Federal Premium Power-Shok is still readily available for $17/box of 20 at Wally-world (that is the price of the brass!)

Can you find any fair-priced 7.62 NATO out there? If it feeds a so-called "assault weapon" it is rare for who knows how long?
In fairness to Jester's good point, how much powder do you want to push a 150 gn ball bullet? (40 for .308, 60 for 30-06, 80 for 300 WIN MAG.) If you want to push a heavier and possibly a more aerodynamic bullet. the WIN MAG is currently a good option, and remains unmolested by the current thinking about banning this or that.

Unless you want a light sporter rifle, you might consider a 300 WIN MAG in an 8-9 pound scoped rifle. They are inexpensive due to a reputation for excessive recoil (which I don't agree with from my personal experience) and they make a big cone of flame out of the muzzle!

Anyway, I know this is off-topic, but I wanted to give you some perspective.  If you're choosing a .308 bullet pusher you're not recoil-shy, so I thought I would add the 300 WIN MAG for your consideration. I also own a 30/378 WBY and can't recommend it for the casual shooter, but it is about as much fun as you'll have until someone pulls out the Barret .50 rifle and puts it in your hands.   

[facetious]

As someone said past the 180 grain the 3006 has a "little" more range, but the 308 is inherently more accurate due to the more efficient cartridge design, and the fact that the action is shorter, and thereby stiffer than the long action 3006. I have had several of both, and the 308 to me makes more sense, but that is me.


 If both a .308 and 30-06 were shot in a single shot taking the action length out of the equation,  using match bullets and powder appropriate for each would the .308 still come out ahead or would thy be the same?  (BTW I have a .308 and have been happy with it using 165s)

[Lloyd Smale]

Is there something to the 308 is inherently more accurate line of thought. Maybe. Ill say that through the years ive had a little better luck with differnt rifles in 308 but then most of them were more modern guns. Ill go this way with you. Id take a pre 64 win 308 over an 06 in an accuracy contest but id take a newly manufactured 70 in o6 over a pre 64 308 any day of the week in the same contest. Compare two identical guns? If youve shot lots of differnt rifles youd know that that doesnt work. Take two guns of the same caliber with consecutive serial numbers and one can be a shooter and one a dud. Id say this. Have to best rifle maker in the world build two guns one in 308 and one in 06. Heck build 3 of each to make it fair. Id bet if the 308s did outshoot the 06s it would take a caliper to make that decision. So is there some truth to the short cartidges being more accurate. Probably, if not the bench rest shooters proably wouldnt have gone to them but in the real world and especially in the hunting field it means absolutely NOTHING! Like i said to me it comes down to this. If im hunting where a nice light short little rife is going to make the hunt better id take a little short barreled 308. If it is a hunt where im not lugging a gun around all day im not going to carry a 8lb 308 when i can carry a 8lb 06. If i could only afford one rifle id carry that 8lb o6 because its a bit flatter shooting a bit harder hitting and a bit more versitile in its ability to handle heavy bullets if i ever get a chance to hunt something bigger then deer.

[nomosendero]

Is there something to the 308 is inherently more accurate line of thought. Maybe. Ill say that through the years ive had a little better luck with differnt rifles in 308 but then most of them were more modern guns. Ill go this way with you. Id take a pre 64 win 308 over an 06 in an accuracy contest but id take a newly manufactured 70 in o6 over a pre 64 308 any day of the week in the same contest. Compare two identical guns? If youve shot lots of differnt rifles youd know that that doesnt work. Take two guns of the same caliber with consecutive serial numbers and one can be a shooter and one a dud. Id say this. Have to best rifle maker in the world build two guns one in 308 and one in 06. Heck build 3 of each to make it fair. Id bet if the 308s did outshoot the 06s it would take a caliper to make that decision. So is there some truth to the short cartidges being more accurate. Probably, if not the bench rest shooters proably wouldnt have gone to them but in the real world and especially in the hunting field it means absolutely NOTHING! Like i said to me it comes down to this. If im hunting where a nice light short little rife is going to make the hunt better id take a little short barreled 308. If it is a hunt where im not lugging a gun around all day im not going to carry a 8lb 308 when i can carry a 8lb 06. If i could only afford one rifle id carry that 8lb o6 because its a bit flatter shooting a bit harder hitting and a bit more versitile in its ability to handle heavy bullets if i ever get a chance to hunt something bigger then deer.

I agree with all the above. Many times folks will bring up the M40 Sniper rifle in 308, but keep in mind that it is a long action, the Mil. wanted to be able to convert the rifle to other rounds & in fact some are being converted to 300WM.
So, the long action did not seem to hurt that rifle. It is true that a short action or a shorter piece of steel in general is stiffer, but as Lloyd says, it would be hard to measure the difference. In competition, ANY measurable difference in a group matters, so yes the short action could give you that.
 
And I have found my 308's as well to be slightly more accurate as well, though slight in some cases. The 308 is a very easy cartridge to work with. I have found if the rifle is decent, you can start with 44 gr. of Varget & a good 165 grain bullet (doesn't have to be a match bullet) & work up slow & very soon you will have a very good accuracy load. I find that to be amazing!
 
But what is more important is how good your barrel is, your stock and bedding, optics, the whole platform, these matter more than if it is a 308 or a 30-06. With the right set up, either will be more accurate than needed (I didn't say wanted) for the hunting fields.
 
As far as a rifle for all game, my 30-06 has the edge, but I use a 300WM for the bigger stuff further away anyhow. And since I do, the 308 fills a roll as a shorter rifle I use in the woods or medium range & because of rifle type in these cases, it is better for ME than my 30-06, which I don't use much anymore.
My brother says it well as far as general hunting is concerned, "I like the 30-06 cartridge better, but I like the 308 rifles better".
 

[MattSom]

I'm going to jump off the deep end into the pool and put in my two cents...be nice.
 
In reality, as a hunting round(for deer or black bear) does it really matter between a .308 and a .30-06?  You could go around in circles discussing the advantages and disadvantages of both.  A 165 grain round fired from a .308 has an average velocity of 2700 ft/s and average energy of 2671 ft-lbf and the .30-06 of the same size(165 gr) has an average velocity of 2800 ft/s and an average energy of 2872 ft-lbf.  A deer or black bear won't be able to tell that difference(they would be dead.) 
 
My theory is this...use what you like and are comfortable with.  In the police sniper school I attended, we used a .308.  I got very comfortable shooting it and became very accurate at shooting it so I am buying a rifle in that caliber.  My decision could be different if it were another caliber, but it was not.  I am confident that I can make an accurate shot to put down my target with that caliber so I am going with that. 
 
Am I a gun expert...no.  Am I a shooter confident with my abilities with that caliber...yes.  So for me...the .308 is my choice. 

[Swampman]

I will say that all the very accurate centerfire rifles I've own were .30-06s, and the most inaccurate centerfire rifle I've owned was a .308.
 
 
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2012/05/cartridges-accuracy-secrets-of-30-06.html

[D Fischer]

I will say that all the very accurate centerfire rifles I've own were .30-06s, and the most inaccurate centerfire rifle I've owned was a .308.
 
 
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2012/05/cartridges-accuracy-secrets-of-30-06.html

Imagine that! Each rifle is a law to itself.

[Swampman]

Well the .30-06 is accurate no matter the rifle.

[nomosendero]

I will say that all the very accurate centerfire rifles I've own were .30-06s, and the most inaccurate centerfire rifle I've owned was a .308.
 
 
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2012/05/cartridges-accuracy-secrets-of-30-06.html

Imagine that! Each rifle is a law to itself.

 

[alan in ga]

pick either one, both are excellent military design. What I think matters more is the rifle you build around it. Spend you money on a quality BARREL in either cartridge and see what you can do. I've had both and to argue one over the other is really pointless...they are equals except in size and maybe just a TAD of velocity difference if both are loaded to the same pressure. What DOES matter is what size action you like, short or long action. I don't think the long actions are worth the extra length toting in the game woods.
I've had both rounds and it really,,,,REALLY...don't matter a hoot which one you choose, you will like them BOTH.

[scootrd]

I want to buy a high powered rifle in either 308 or 30-06?  I'm leaning towards the 30-06 because of the different types of ammunition available (lower cost?). Which would you get?

What purpose is your rifle to be used for?
A general purpose all rounder for various game species and multiple hunting environments or A dedicated rifle for a particular type of hunting terrain or Game species?

Why are you limiting yourself to just those two cartridge choices?

Both mentioned are capable of taking various game out farther than "most" (not all) feel ethically comfortable or even capable of shooting.

If your looking for a dedicated whitetail (or Like) rig . find a good fitting Rifle then check out a 7mm-08 as a third option,
You may be pleasantly surprised.    270 may also ne another option to consider. Again it just all depends on what your requirements are .

Semper Fi

[Lloyd Smale]

you really cant judge the 308 by that ruger you owned. they were notoriously poor shooters.

I will say that all the very accurate centerfire rifles I've own were .30-06s, and the most inaccurate centerfire rifle I've owned was a .308.
 
 
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2012/05/cartridges-accuracy-secrets-of-30-06.html

[Dixie Dude]

Right now, 30-06 ammo is more available than 308 ammo.  Hopefully things will settle down in a few months and get somewhat back to normal.

[nomosendero]

you really cant judge the 308 by that ruger you owned. they were notoriously poor shooters.

I will say that all the very accurate centerfire rifles I've own were .30-06s, and the most inaccurate centerfire rifle I've owned was a .308.
 
 
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2012/05/cartridges-accuracy-secrets-of-30-06.html

Nor any other cartridge by one rifle

[Ranch13]

 Fella just has to wonder, if the 308 is such a slacker in the accuracy dept, then why do you suppose it dominates the F-class, and Palma NRA highpower competitions?

[RevJim]

 
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2012/05/cartridges-accuracy-secrets-of-30-06.html
 Great link Swamp! I thoroughly enjoyed it. Only 30.06 I'm playing with now is Springfield M1. I actually gave the rifle to my SIL, but I wanted to try out one of www.garandgear,com  Ported Gas Plug. Its designed to regulate all ammo (even hot loads) to Garand safe pressure levels. That way we can shoot whatever we can find or have w/o bending the OP rod. It shot all my handloads ( 168 TSx and Nosler 200 partition) just fine. I like 165 and up on elk, and the Nosler 125BT on deer/antelope out in the open. That 125BT is a fine coyote rifle too. I hunted years ago with a couple guys who both had Mod 742s ( very popular around Se Texas then) one used the 220 RN the other the 180 RN. Both killed those small deer fine w/o tearing them up.

[nomosendero]

Mr. Salazar has done a great job with the 30-06 & is in the minority concerning his view, but even he says in a later blog that the 308 does better at 600 yards than the 30-06. He went on to say HIS 30-06 did a little better at 1000 yds. than HIS 308 (results very close), but then again alot more folks have done better at 1000+ yds. with a 300WM than a 30-06, which also is why the Military went from a 308 to a 300WM with no reason to go '06, but who cares?
 
Here is a different view & more within what most volume shooters think.
http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/AccuracyFacts.asp
 
So we have a blogger that likes the 30-06 & another who likes the 308, which does nothing for the OP.
 
Started not to include that, but it would be easy to show 3 of these (or 5-10) to every one article thinking a 30-06 would fare better. But as I said before, the difference in the field is very minor with the same quality components & the type of rifle you want and what you do with it is much more of a consideration.
 
Choose & enjoy.

[Lloyd Smale]

this argument has ragged since the 60s and still hasnt been settled so i doubt a bunch of us are going to come up with concrete answers. What it comes down to is use whichever your like as both of them are rarely a mistake.

[Swampman]

I appreciate the additional velocity of the .30-06.  If more people shot it with the heavier bullets is was designed to use they'd like it a lot more.  I can't believe how the 180s shoot and I wish I'd tried them years ago.  For deer sized game the .308 is plenty.

[SHOOTALL]

I want to buy a high powered rifle in either 308 or 30-06?  I'm leaning towards the 30-06 because of the different types of ammunition available (lower cost?). Which would you get?

If I were only going to get one it would depend on it's use. For hunting there are more bullet weights aval. since the 308 tops out around 200 gr for loaded ammo in most places where the 30-06 gets up to 220 gr and heavier in hand loads. If deer were my biggest big game and I wanted to target shoot or even varmit hunt then the 308 . The 3006 gives 80 to 150 or so better velosity with same weight bullets , might mean something with big bad game.

[Ranch13]

Having used both the 308 and the 06 on game from antelope to elk, with bullets up to 180 grs, there's not a whit of difference in the affectiveness, none,net, nadda.....Accuracy.... not alot , but with the less recoil of the 308 it does seem to be a bit more user friendly, and combined with the short actions... Velocity? 100 fps don't mean much in real world, makes for good paper arquements tho..
So basically it's going to come down to choose the rifle that suits you best and have a good time.

[mannyrock]

   As usual, the arguments of many in favor the .30-06 seem to be twofold:
 
   1.  The .30-06 is better cause it can shoot a 220 grain bullet instead of just a 200 grain bullet, and I'm really scared not to have a 220 grain bullet cause I might get attacked by a grizzly some day!   That extra 100 ft pounds of energy and 20 grains of lead (in all, the equivalent of a .22 LR round, with half a bullet) are gonna be really really important if that happens.
 
  2.   I really need the extra oomph of the .30-06 because I like to shoot big elk and I need it.  Course, I've never shot a big elk with a .308 using a 200 grain bullet, but I think I need the .30-06 anyway.
 
   Boddington  wrote an Article in Guns & Ammo a few years ago, in which he tested a .308 Scout rifle with a 20 inch barrel in Africa.  He shot 20 head of very large game, including the Greater  Kudu.  He had 19 one shot kills, and only one animal (a running zebra)  required a second shot.
 
   If you like the .30-06, that's great.  It's a fine round.  But don't say that you "need it" (as compared to a .308 Winchester ).  You only think you need it.
 
Mannyrock

[Swampman]

But why give up something for nothing? 

[Drilling Man]

  Those of US that have shot a lot of big game with 200NP's out of our 30-06's, KNOW what they will do.  Those of YOU that never have used that bullet, are just blowing smoke...
 
  BTW, Nosler #6 doesn't even show a 200NP load for the 308 Win...  (it needs more case capacity for that bullet)
 
  The 200NP in a 30-06 is the best "all around" bullet i've ever shot big game with in 30cal.  NO i don't always need a 200 grain bullet, but when i do, i DO and the 200NP has worked well on everything else too.
 
  This is based on MY OWN experience, not what someone wrote in a book, or what Boddington said...
 
  BTW, for deer you don't need either cartridge!
 
  DM

[nomosendero]

  Those of US that have shot a lot of big game with 200NP's out of our 30-06's, KNOW what they will do.  Those of YOU that never have used that bullet, are just blowing smoke...
 
  BTW, Nosler #6 doesn't even show a 200NP load for the 308 Win...  (it needs more case capacity for that bullet)
 
  The 200NP in a 30-06 is the best "all around" bullet i've ever shot big game with in 30cal.  NO i don't always need a 200 grain bullet, but when i do, i DO and the 200NP has worked well on everything else too.
 
  This is based on MY OWN experience, not what someone wrote in a book, or what Boddington said...
 
  BTW, for deer you don't need either cartridge!
 
  DM

I think everyone agrees that the 30-06 has an edge over the 308 with bullets over 180 gr., just like the 300WM will have a range edge over the '06 with the same bullet.
 
Blowing smoke, wouldn't that depend on what the OP was wanting to do with the rifle, may not be shooting anything bigger than a Deer & we know neither is needed for Deer, but he never asked about that. BTW, I like what one Alaskan says about the 220 NP for some of his experiences, but I have never used the 220, but believe his experiences, but I am doubtful the potential rifle in question will ever see Alaska, so it doesn't matter much.

[Ranch13]

Some folks need to spend a wee bit of time in reloading manuals, when you do that this stuff about the 200 gr bullet disappears pretty fast. 2500 fp is 2500 fps don't much matter what the length of the cartridge is.
 220's? You want to see affective, shoot 220 round noses out of a 30-40 krag and watch stuff fold up in midair...