Obama Care affects a HUGE corporation and us

[Defoe]

I believe he's blaming MM for their own actions.

Nope! Putting the blame squarely where it belongs..........On government interference in private business. Again, wasn't a problem until the government stuck it's nose in. You sure seem to have a problem with that concept though.

and this is why companies can't expand, new companies can't  start, and established companies leave the country.

[ChungDoQuan]

All I'm hearing is paranoia, and doom and gloom. Don't give up. We've been on the right's economic plan for 40 years. Y'all CAN'T know these bad things are going to happen--- we haven't tried them yet. 


When your ideology is composed of absolutes, so are your victories--- AND your defeats, from what I'm reading.
 

[Defoe]

All I'm hearing is paranoia, and doom and gloom. Don't give up. We've been on the right's economic plan for 40 years. Y'all CAN'T know these bad things are going to happen--- we haven't tried them yet. 


When your ideology is composed of absolutes, so are your victories--- AND your defeats, from what I'm reading.

you might want to check whats happened the last four years.

[Swampman]

I don't think bias had anything to do with it.

I do.....

[SHOOTALL]

All I'm hearing is paranoia, and doom and gloom. Don't give up. We've been on the right's economic plan for 40 years. Y'all CAN'T know these bad things are going to happen--- we haven't tried them yet. 
I agree we have not tried them yet ! Let me introduce you to a word that has applied for years in America. Wisdom . At one time we would seek out leaders who displayed wisdom. They learned from others mistakes and guided America away from making the same ones.
Now we have leaders who either don't have wisdom or choose to ignore it.
So as you note we have not tried some of the socilist communist ideas but others have and failed . Wisdom would teach us not to follow the unsuccessful path but it seems wisdom is not part of an agenda these days . 

When your ideology is composed of absolutes, so are your victories--- AND your defeats, from what I'm reading.a lack of wisdom !

[SHOOTALL]

So if you ran all insurance companies what would you do ? Sit back and wait or get set up to meet new regulation and secure funds to meet demands ?

[ChungDoQuan]

If I ran an insurance company, I'd do it not-for-profit. My own salary would be $200- 250K, no bonuses, and I'd force the other insurance companies to do the same in order to compete. Some things are not supposed to be exploited to the extent of the most money you can squeeze out of people--- especially sick people. I'd do the same if I ran a drug company. Hospitals have been run that way for decades, shouldering a bigger and bigger burden of the cost absorption for caring for the homeless and the uninsured--- it's time to share the charity.  People on the right think they are rock-solid and unmoving in their ideology--- I am absolutely committed to  my stance that NOTHING concerning health care should be for profit.

Yeah, I know the spiel. The rightys are going to swear that profits are what have given us the health care that we have. I agree: deadly, drug resistant germs, NO cure for cancer after 100 years, and 62% of all bankruptcies in the US caused by health care costs--- we have the profit driven system to thank for that. The AMA and the drug companies spend millions each year to discredit alternative therapies that are safer, and more effective--- ask anyone with chronic pain, or fibromyalgia, or even cancer if they are getting their money's worth. 

[SHOOTALL]

If I ran an insurance company, I'd do it not-for-profit. My own salary would be $200- 250K, no bonuses, and I'd force the other insurance companies to do the same in order to compete. Some things are not supposed to be exploited to the extent of the most money you can squeeze out of people--- especially sick people. I'd do the same if I ran a drug company. Hospitals have been run that way for decades, shouldering a bigger and bigger burden of the cost absorption for caring for the homeless and the uninsured--- it's time to share the charity.  People on the right think they are rock-solid and unmoving in their ideology--- I am absolutely committed to  my stance that NOTHING concerning health care should be for profit. So would you just sell products and drugs that others developed since you have not alloted funds for R&D ?

Yeah, I know the spiel. The rightys are going to swear that profits are what have given us the health care that we have. I agree: deadly, drug resistant germs, NO cure for cancer after 100 years, and 62% of all bankruptcies in the US caused by health care costs--- we have the profit driven system to thank for that. The AMA and the drug companies spend millions each year to discredit alternative therapies that are safer, and more effective--- ask anyone with chronic pain, or fibromyalgia, or even cancer if they are getting their money's worth.  would you work to get US govt. regs changed to more like regs in other countries which help keep cost down and get treatment into the main streame faster ?
It's not all the insutrance companies , would you try to get caps on fines and legal settlements ? Don't just touch on the knee jerk parts what would you do over all ?

[Cuts Crooked]

Again: MM waqs happy, we were happy, then the government stuck their nose in and it all changed. Sounds like the government interference is the problem.....Unless of course it doesn't agree with ones socialistic mindset. Then it becomes a matter of how to blame government interference on the business, with more & more outrageous stretching................

[ChungDoQuan]

Shootall, if the drug companies did REAL research before releasing a new drug, their lawsuits would be few and far between. Instead, they keep re-releasing failed drugs that keep killing people--- because they can make so much profit on them that the lawsuits don't dent it--- and it's hard to be sued by dead people. Usually, they drag these suits out for so long that the plaintiff dies, and the suit is dropped. On top of that, if the family tries to sue, they first have to show that the patient would have lived WITHOUT the drug, which is very hard to do. Then they have to show that procedures WERE followed by the dead patient, and WERE NOT followed by the MD or drug company. It's almost impossible to win a suit like that.

CC, I think you're over simplifying. I understand your POV, but I think you are not looking at all the variables.

[SHOOTALL]

You can believe that if you wish . What I have seen with drugs is a few make it thru. the required test and look good but long term something will show up in some people who use them. Others are found to be bad drugs. When the Govt. approves the drug then allows law suits and extreme settlements one has to wonder what's up. But back to my question what are you going to do about it as CEO of an insurance company ?
Law suits in a business that up front only claims to be praticing medicine  , a guy is dieing and a Dr. prescribes a drug then the guy dies and the family wins the legal lotto .    ya just got to love this set up !

[ChungDoQuan]

I remember the pre-Reagan years--- a little bit, at any rate. Health care was affordable, People like me qualified for NDSL loans for school as low as 1%. By the way, I also remember when he privatized the student loans--- I got a notice in the mail that my gov't loan was due in full in 90 days! I mostly worked through school, so mine was $1300. I busted my butt and paid it. I also knew MDs and lawyers with much bigger loans that had to start their careers by declaring bankruptcy. The rightys want to know why I'm not particularly impressed with Reagan? That's one reason, and there are many. Oh, and since then, the privatized loan companies have had legislation passed that now if you declare bankruptcy, the student loans are still due--- and they pull your professional license until you are current again. Talk about kicking you while you're down... We ought to be more worried that the professionals will be leaving the country, not the people who are already rich. Why do you suppose there is a shortage of US doctors?

[Dixie Dude]

It is also strange that tuition rates have risen faster than inflation the last few years, especially after so many can now qualify for student loans and such.  I worked my way through school working evening, nights, and weekends.  Back in the 60's about half the students at Auburn University worked at least part time through school.  Only the rich kids got their parents to pay.  Tuition skyrocketed when they started the student loan programs.  Don't know why so many are going to college now with no jobs available.  Trades can pay as much now.  Electricians, HVAC people, plumbers, auto mechanics, auto body repair, concrete and brick masonry, appliance repair, powerline workers, pipeline welders, heavy equipment operators.  All these guys can make more than a lot of college grads.  I know of a teacher who cut grass, trimmed hedges, and did yard work during the summers to supplement his meager teachers salary.  Made good money doing it also.  He liked contracting with businesses who had landscaping like banks, gas stations, etc.  Regular work and they paid good.  Can be hot and hard work down south in the summer though. 

[rio grande]

Deal with the real or die. Is that simple enough? 

What? You expected LOYALTY from a corporation? Y'ALL are the capitalists here; why do I have to explain this? 

Dont know where you work or worked. Corperations are not built for employees to make money. They built to make company money. I never understand why people try and beat the companies down for trying to make a profit.
 

Lonny

OK Lonny, what's the limit? If we accept your logic, if Corporations sole purpose is to maximize profits, is it OK if they offshore and hire workers for $1 per day and free beans for lunch? Is it OK if they manage to eliminate environmental and safety laws?
If a Corporation's sole interest is in profit for the few and screw everything and everybody else then maybe it's time to take them over and put their profits to use in the community. And don't give me that 'trickle-down' baloney. it's obviously not working, as the percentage of wealth has steadily tilted to the rich for years now.
Me, I never understand why people try to beat other people down for trying to make a decent wage and obtain medical care for their families.

[BUGEYE]

maybe it's time to take them over and put their profits to use in the community.

how do you spell communism?? r-i-o-g-r-a-n-d-e

[SHOOTALL]

As I read this it becomes clear some are willing to trade freedom to get a better deal. Freedom cost !

[scootrd]

Deal with the real or die. Is that simple enough? 

What? You expected LOYALTY from a corporation? Y'ALL are the capitalists here; why do I have to explain this? 

Dont know where you work or worked. Corperations are not built for employees to make money. They built to make company money. I never understand why people try and beat the companies down for trying to make a profit.
 

Lonny

OK Lonny, what's the limit? If we accept your logic, if Corporations sole purpose is to maximize profits, is it OK if they offshore and hire workers for $1 per day and free beans for lunch? Is it OK if they manage to eliminate environmental and safety laws?
If a Corporation's sole interest is in profit for the few and screw everything and everybody else then maybe it's time to take them over and put their profits to use in the community. And don't give me that 'trickle-down' baloney. it's obviously not working, as the percentage of wealth has steadily tilted to the rich for years now.
Me, I never understand why people try to beat other people down for trying to make a decent wage and obtain medical care for their families.

"Corporations are people, my friend,”
 - Mitt Romney


Gotta love Citizens United !!! worse US Supreme Court Decision handed down in decades.

[SHOOTALL]

CDQ: 

Oh, and since then, the privatized loan companies have had legislation passed that now if you declare bankruptcy, the student loans are still due---

.
 Right!  I believe this was one of the first things Bush Jr. did...even before the defining 911 event. Student loans are now never forgiven... Student loan debt culture now is about a $1 trillion due cliff...no wonder stundents protested at OWS.  Righties think they should be thrown in jail and tortured... . ..just kidding, I think.
 
 
...TM7

no not tortured .
what needs to be expolred is schools lending not profiting from it. They take in more than will get an education. Maybe those seeking loans could get it from a corp sponser and work it off after graduation or in off periods like summer.

[ChungDoQuan]

As I read this it becomes clear some are willing to trade freedom to get a better deal. Freedom cost !

Problem is, 98% don't have anything to pay with--- the rightys gave it all away to the rich. Like it or not, conservative or not, at least SOME of the money accumulated by the top 2% HAS to get back to the 98%, or there IS no more America. The top 2% are not going to just donate it. They are at the point where they have to realized that the US economy is like a fished-out river. They have taken too much, and if they don't do something to restock it, and control what they take, they will simply starve.  The rightys in congress will let the country go over the fiscal cliff rather than work with Obama, in the name of ideology. NOT in the name of the country; in the name of ideology. The rightys have traded God for ideology--- their ideology IS their god, if they would give up everything for it. 

[Dixie Dude]

So has Obama.  They put taxes on the table, including the Simpson-Bowle's plan.  Obama will not make any cuts or changes to entitlements period.  He is the one not compromising.   The two plans he has offered has been turned down by 97 senators, all of them that voted.  I say give him what he wants and let the fiscal clift be his.  Just like the stupid Obamacare, no actual republican ideas were used, like having the insurance companies cross state lines, or limiting mal-practice lawsuits.  His plan is to eventually run all the insurance companies out of business, or have business not provide insurance, thus leading to a nationalised health care like the Brits.  He did mention that in his book also. 

[SHOOTALL]

As I read this it becomes clear some are willing to trade freedom to get a better deal. Freedom cost !

Problem is, 98% don't have anything to pay with--- the rightys gave it all away to the rich. Like it or not, conservative or not, at least SOME of the money accumulated by the top 2% HAS to get back to the 98%, or there IS no more America. The top 2% are not going to just donate it.no like in England they will pack up and leave or just not create income. Either way the burden will fall on the middle class . They are at the point where they have to realized that the US economy is like a fished-out river. They have taken too much, and if they don't do something to restock it, and control what they take, they will simply starve.No they won't starve they will pack it in and go to another river .Most likely off shore where people realize they hire when not taxed to death.  The rightys in congress will let the country go over the fiscal cliff rather than work with Obama, in the name of ideology. NOT in the name of the country; in the name of ideology. The rightys have traded God for ideology--- their ideology IS their god, if they would give up everything for it.  That is pure BS. The entire concept was that a small percentage of Americans did not have healthcare but in reality most could get it by walking into any hospital. No not a boob joj or nose job but emg treatment or for a real sickness. With the new HC what has been done is all services will be reduced and a layer of govt. control ( read bigger govt and cost) was added .
People need to open their eyes it's not the rich complaining it's the middle class who are watching their insurance go to lower services at higher cost and many losing jobs at the same time taxes go up on them.

[BUGEYE]

Dixie Dude, good post. 
odumbo wants more tax on the rich, which will do nothing.
he wants to raise the debt limit which would wipe any extra taxes collected from the rich.
the POTUS is an idiot.

My wife could balance the budget in less than 4 years.  so why can't a bunch of lawyers do the same?

[ChungDoQuan]

Why do the rightys HATE the working middle class so much? Why do y'all hate the elderly, the sick, and the impoverished, especially the babies? There are no "entitlements." There are only assistance plans that were paid into--- and, even if you don't make enough to pay income tax, you still pay into those plans. Why is the right so dead set against the 98% just to help the 2% when they don't need it, and will never even thank you for taking the hit for them anyway?

[SHOOTALL]

CDQ , being free means yopu choose what you do with your money. Many want to remain free. Many don't like the idea of buying votes with entitlements .
 BTW how can one on wealfare pay for anything the govt. does ? THEY DON"T WORK TO HAVE A PAY CHECK TO WITH HOLD FROM .

[BUGEYE]

Why do the rightys HATE the working middle class so much? Why do y'all hate the elderly, the sick, and the impoverished, especially the babies? There are no "entitlements." There are only assistance plans that were paid into--- and, even if you don't make enough to pay income tax, you still pay into those plans. Why is the right so dead set against the 98% just to help the 2% when they don't need it, and will never even thank you for taking the hit for them anyway?

why did YOUR man gut medicare and medicaid??  it was to help pay for obama care which is the death-knell for the greatest medical care system in the world and the death-knell for small and large business.
cardiologists have already been forewarned that some procedures will not be paid for and us old heart patients just love that one.
YOUR COMMUNISM WILL MAKE US JUST LIKE THE OLD USSR.

[ChungDoQuan]

The only things cut from Medicare and Medicaid were things already covered under the new law. Other cuts were made to eliminate double paying, overpaying, etc. AND, like I keep having to remind people on the right, the law has not gone into effect yet--- so far it has done NONE of that.

[Dee]

My wife is on Medicare, and I buy a supplemental Ins. policy to cover any residuals. If Medicare pays nothin on the cost, the Ins. pays nothing on the cost. Medicare pays on fewer and fewer conditions due to GOVERNMENT CUTS on Medicare. We have paid, and delt with this GOVERNMENT for over 50 years. We have ACTUALLY WATCHED THIS GOVERNMENT EVOLVE INTO WHAT IT IS. THE "YOUNG LIBERALS" HERE ARE "SPECULATING", AND "THINK THEY KNOW". THEY DO NOT HAVE THE "LONG TERM EXPERIENCE OF LIFE", AND WILL NOT LISTEN.

Groceries are going up, not because they are becoming more expensive, but because the "Obama Printing Press" is running wide open to pay interest on an out of control GOVERNMENT DEBT. doubled by Obama, thereby DEVALUING the dollar.
Energy is getting more expensive, and energy drives the economy.

Example: Sure you can build a coal fired electrical plant. BUT! WE WILL BANKRUPT YOU, AND CLOSE YOU DOWN. Paraphrased quote from PRESIDENT Barrack Hussein Obama. In other words he will sic his ALL POWERFUL "ENVIORMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY" on ya.

Anyone tryin to debate some of these guys here, "is himself in denial", that THEY WANT SOCIALISM, and AGREE WITH SOCIALISM. Most of them have not lived long enough to have the long term EXPERIENCE OF LIFE and it's trials and tribulations, and to KNOW WHAT WORKS, and DOESN'T WORK. They only have ARTICALS AND STUDIES, and they believe every word of them.
Unfortunately for us older folks that have ACTUALLY BEEN THERE, we are now OUT NUMERBED at the voting polls. You might as well call it a day, cause they ain't gonna listen.

[BUGEYE]

The only things cut from Medicare and Medicaid were things already covered under the new law. Other cuts were made to eliminate double paying, overpaying, etc. AND, like I keep having to remind people on the right, the law has not gone into effect yet--- so far it has done NONE of that.

then why is the same coverage in the HCL...  oh yeah,  an old person didn't have to buy medicare coverage, but under obama care, they will be FORCED to buy coverage or the new IRS thugs will be on their doorstep.
communism pure and simple.

[SHOOTALL]

The only things cut from Medicare and Medicaid were things already covered under the new law. Other cuts were made to eliminate double paying, overpaying, etc. AND, like I keep having to remind people on the right, the law has not gone into effect yet--- so far it has done NONE of that.

then why is the same coverage in the HCL...  oh yeah,  an old person didn't have to buy medicare coverage, but under obama care, they will be FORCED to buy coverage or the new IRS thugs will be on their doorstep.
communism pure and simple.

 
 
look at the brite side when we can't afford HC we will all get 3 hots and a cot !

[Dixie Dude]

Obamacare is being phased in.  Just because it hasn't taken FULL effect doesn't mean it is not in effect.  It is and has already started.  Your social security medicare tax is going up next year.  Additional Obamacare tax is going on capital gains next year.  Average tax increase for the middle class will be between $50-100 a month.  This is with or without any "fiscal clift" agreement.  All the POTUS and Congress are argueing about is the Bush tax cuts and spending cuts.  SSI taxes are going up because of Obamacare period.  Ask your doctor what has already been phased in and what is going to be phased in next year. 
 
Read Obama's book, he wants America to go over the fiscal clift so the FEDS can GAIN more control of our lives, our economy, etc.  He is a Socialist period.  Really a Menskivic Communist, not the Bolshevic kind.  Read his book.  No one in the media knows what he really wants.  Even stupid democratic congressmen and senators knows what he really wants.  They just think it is politics as usual.  Clinton at least was an old school politician and knew how to compromise.  Obama is very stubborn.  The Bowles-Simpson plan has been offered by the republicans, but Obama rejected that and it was a bi-partisin plan to both increase some taxes, close some loopholes, and cut some social programs costs, and raise the retirement age for younger people.  Sounded like a decent plan to me, but NO, Obama is wanting more.  He wants to spend more without anything to back it up. 
 
Mark my words, we will reach the real fiscal clift at $20 trillion debt.  Government at that point can't take in enough tax money to even pay the interest on the debt.  We will reach it in less than 4 years. 
 
The economy should have already bounced back, but everyone with money is afraid to spend it because they don't TRUST this president.  He has talked out of both sides of his mouth.  No one knows what to expect.  I want to buy some things myself, but don't want to do it for fear of this economy.  So, I prep instead.