Obama Care affects a HUGE corporation and us

[magooch]

I've worked too hard and too long to give up my pension and 401k.  If I get w...

If you're under 59 1/2 they could care less what you do. Take the money out and pay the 40%+ penalty to the .gov

And no one is going to ask you if you want the gov to take your 401k - they will just do it.

Long before that is an issue, they will just issue new currency to counter hyper inflation - your $100k of USD will be worth $1k in "Amerigo's" - at that point, doesn't really matter what's in your 401k or who controls it.

If any of this transpires--and I"m not saying it won't, because I truly believe something of this nature is inevitable--it will be long past the time that patriots should meet in Washington D.C. and go into full seek and detstroy mode on the irresponsible, dispicable, liberal barstads that spent, borrowed and printed this country into economic oblivion.  But remember to save enough ammo to repel the marauding hordes of leaches that will be at hand.

[BUGEYE]

Are liberals so blind and ignorant that they don't realize that corps are not just a room full of bigwhigs.  the corps are workers and to me the biggest of all are SHAREHOLDERS.
if the corps don't keep them happy, the shareholders can ruin the corp in one day.
democrats are too stupid to look beyond that profit and see who all benefit from it.
all they see is money to steal.  they are theives and murderers and if you vote for one, well..........

[Anna]

Deal with the real or die. Is that simple enough? 

What? You expected LOYALTY from a corporation? Y'ALL are the capitalists here; why do I have to explain this? 

I will say that at least CDQ doesn't hide or lie about what he is.CDQ a question, are you a follower of
Mao Tse-tung like Hillary is ? Or are you more of a Marxist in your beliefs ?
I'm not being critical here of you so please don't take it that way. But it would explaine and clarify
a lot of what your trying to get across to us in a lot of your post if we knew.
Each is a totally different philosophy being that Obama is clearly a Marxist. This would explain a lot
of his disagreements with the Clinton's with their individual approach to government.

An American or European Liberal is certainly a liability to your way of thinking, if you are a true
Maoist. Because you don't appear to be a real fan of Obama either. But your also not willing to ever
stand in his way either. Because you know that Marxist always set the stage for their own failures
allowing your way to always come in and take over what is left. Just asking is all, a lot of my family
can still remember what it was like to once be around in a Soviet allied Egypt.

[Cuts Crooked]

LOL!! TM trying to use my own writing against me.LOL!!! Unfortunately he left the most important quote he could have used......."government meddling in private business....."

You see, all the things TM  mentions from my posts were actually working in our favor, and MMs, favor, UNTIL THE GOVERNMENT MEDDLING INCREASED.

[ChungDoQuan]

Anna, no offense taken. The only label I can wear comfortably is maybe "humanist." I'm not a Democrat, and certainly not a Republican. I actually DO believe in the American principles of freedom, equality, and self actualization. I started as a sharecropper kid. I worked through college three times, starting when Nixon was President--- took every bit of 18 years total. I now work part time and own and operate a business. I own a couple of dozen guns. I have different opinions on different issues. I'm basically a capitalist, but I also believe you have to balance it with (you'd probably say"socialist") regulation. The average person nowadays hasn't got a chance against the 2% on top--- the deck is stacked. I'm personally fine, though I don't pass that $200K a year mark. I'm definitely anti corporate. As far as I'm concerned, the right has already given the country away to them. Free market capitalism in this country has a 40 year record of failure. Y'all keep saying that socialist countries fail? SO DO PURELY CAPITALIST ONES. Maoist? No. Marxist? No. Money worshipper? No. The government is the only protection normal people have against big money, and we DO need protection. Extreme right wing nonsense is insane; so is extreme leftist nonsense. I believe that there are three things the government HAS to control in order to keep us free--- the military, health care, and education. Those things are just too important to leave up to people interested only in profit. And, yes, basic healthcare should be a right, not a priviledge. So should education, and public education should be secular. You can teach your own religion to your own kids--- I will not willingly pay for it, though I WILL pay for arts and sciences without complaint. I don't CARE what your religion is, as long as you keep it to yourself. One thing I do have is a built-in BS detector, and recently it screams when Boener, McConnell, Nordquist, Limbaugh and their like talk. The extreme right is as dangerous as Maoism. Do I support Obama? Only by default. When all you have is a hammer, even screws start to look like nails. Obama is the only hammer I have right now, and the right ain't giving me any hope at all. I used to hear people called "knee-jerk liberals." Now I see even more "knee-jerk conservatives." And, it appears, most Americans agree with me, not them.

[Cuts Crooked]

LOL!! TM trying to use my own writing against me.LOL!!! Unfortunately he left the most important quote he could have used......."government meddling in private business....."

You see, all the things TM  mentions from my posts were actually working in our favor, and MMs, favor, UNTIL THE GOVERNMENT MEDDLING INCREASED.

.
 You're always free to take your own advice....best of luck navigating these sea changes we all experience, but it seems your problem lies with Martin Marietta, who I would bet had a big hand in writing Obama-Romneycare..
.
.
..TM7

Can you miss a point any better?

Had no problem............UNTIL GOVERNMENT MEDDLING INCREASED. Both sides were happy with the deal then government stuck their nose it! Is there a part of that you can't understand.

[Dixie Dude]

Free market capitalism hasn't been a failure.  Government meddling, crony capitalism, allowing too many mergers to make super corporations has been the problem.  Economy was doing fine with Reagans policies, which actually continued into the 90's and early 2000's. 
 
Problems were as follows:
 
First the "free trade agreements" moved all our labor intensive manufacturing base overseas.  These companies provided jobs with health care benefits.  This started under Bush Sr. and continued under Clinton.  Ross Perot warned us about this.
 
Second, government meddling in the housing market especially with Fannie May and Freddie Mac, giving loans to those who couldn't afford it. 
 
Third, getting rid of the gold standard with Nixon, and opening the door to China.
 
Fourth, the Great Society Programs started under Johnson.  These have gotten way out of hand.
 
Fifth, allowing corporations to merge, especially oil companies.  BP now owns Amoco and Texaco.  Exxon owns Sinclair, Esso, and Pure.  There was about 20-30 fairly large oil companies each competing and keeping prices low, remember gas wars?  They did break up AT&T, but not any others.  GE now is way too large.  They make appliance, jet engines, large generators, windmills, etc.

[ChungDoQuan]

Free market capitalism hasn't been a failure.  Government meddling, crony capitalism, allowing too many mergers to make super corporations has been the problem. Deregulation is why they were allowed to do that--- the Right deregulates. Economy was doing fine with Reagans policies, which actually continued into the 90's and early 2000's.  If you were rich. Regan's policies have kept the middle class wage increases to 3% over 40 years; top 2% increases have been at least 37%
 
Problems were as follows:
 
First the "free trade agreements" moved all our labor intensive manufacturing base overseas. Because of the loopholes exploited by corporations--- the free trade agreements were supposed to force the big corporations to compete on level ground with cheaper imports. Instead, the big corps moved overseas and BECAME those with cheap labor. It was exactly the wrong law for a global economy. These companies provided jobs with health care benefits.  This started under Bush Sr. and continued under Clinton.  Ross Perot warned us about this. They should have been made to pay into the pension plans of the employees they were laying off, like a lot of European countries do when manufacturers shut down and move to other countries.
 
Second, government meddling in the housing market especially with Fannie May and Freddie Mac, giving loans to those who couldn't afford it.  More mythology. Those lenders were never forced to make such loans--- they lobbied for deregulation to ALLOW them to make sub-prime loans, so they could charge higher interest.
 
Third, getting rid of the gold standard with Nixon, and opening the door to China. Nixon was a right wing corporatist.
 
Fourth, the Great Society Programs started under Johnson.  These have gotten way out of hand. Minorities needed help. Those programs help them. Sure, there is a small percentage of abuse, 'way less than FalseNews leads you to believe. If you have one dog that doesn't hunt, are you just going to stop feeding ALL of your dogs?
 
Fifth, allowing corporations to merge, especially oil companies.  BP now owns Amoco and Texaco.  Exxon owns Sinclair, Esso, and Pure.  There was about 20-30 fairly large oil companies each competing and keeping prices low, remember gas wars?  They did break up AT&T, but not any others.  GE now is way too large.  They make appliance, jet engines, large generators, windmills, etc. Those mergers were allowed by the same deregulation y'all claim is so good. Deregulation pretty well negated the anti-trust laws.

All those things sound like you're arguing for the Democrats!

[Dee]

If anyone really wonders why you have Obama as president, why the nation is broke, and why capitalism is being replaced with communism you only have to read CKQ'S posts. His beliefs but one of the many voters that go against every thing America was built on.

[ChungDoQuan]

I don't have political or economic "beliefs." I go with the facts, as shown by historical documentation. I leave the "beliefs" to the conservatives. 

[Cuts Crooked]

I don't have political or economic "beliefs." I go with the facts, as shown by historical documentation. I leave the "beliefs" to the conservatives. 

However, none of the above addresses the topic at hand. Basically what some of you are trying to do is redirect the subject matter to include private business practices, which are not a causational factor in the original topic. The matter at hand is how government interference is causing problems for private business and thereby causing problems for middle class and lower middle class citizens in attempts to make a living.
 
Again......in this case, and others, the governments interference has had a profound affect on a mutually beneficial business practice that was a net positive for an employer and it's employees. Let's try to stick to that conversation instead of gallopping off into stuff that isn't germain to the subject matter.

[ChungDoQuan]

Fine. ANYTHING currently blamed on Obamacare is a lie. The only parts of the law in effect NOW concern unemployed kids. That's like giving the big money a pass for not hiring because "they didn't know what was going to happen with the taxes"--- for 12 years! ANY extra charges you have to pay between now and 2014 are the result of the employer gouging the employees for a buck or the insurance companies gouging the employees for a buck BECAUSE THEY CAN.

[Cuts Crooked]

Fine. ANYTHING currently blamed on Obamacare is a lie. The only parts of the law in effect NOW concern unemployed kids. That's like giving the big money a pass for not hiring because "they didn't know what was going to happen with the taxes"--- for 12 years! ANY extra charges you have to pay between now and 2014 are the result of the employer gouging the employees for a buck or the insurance companies gouging the employees for a buck BECAUSE THEY CAN.

Didn't read the OP, did ya?     
 
(and just so you know, my insurance premiums went up....the government is my employer....ya reckon they's gougin me? )

[ChungDoQuan]

Is the gov't your insurance PROVIDER, or do they just use your job to broker whatever company they contracted to? And, yes, I read the OP. Martin Marrietta is not now nor have they ever been "employee friendly." They are mercenary contractors for the feds; i.e. the MIC. If your wife works for them, they consider her expendable. Big corporations simply don't care about any individuals, and they are blaming anything and everything on the health care law that is not in effect yet.

[Cuts Crooked]

Is the gov't your insurance PROVIDER, or do they just use your job to broker whatever company they contracted to? And, yes, I read the OP. Martin Marrietta is not now nor have they ever been "employee friendly." They are mercenary contractors for the feds; i.e. the MIC. If your wife works for them, they consider her expendable. Big corporations simply don't care about any individuals, and they are blaming anything and everything on the health care law that is not in effect yet.

Funny though, isn't it, How they had no problem until the fed stuck it's nose into their...and our...business?
 
As for insurance, the government only offers a few "select" choices. But one would think that a benificent wonderful, caring government, would protect it's employees from gouging, especially when they have so benevolantly frozen my wages.
 
But then......you obviously believe that Horse crap about a benevolent government.....don't you? Or perhaps it's more that you want the socialist utopia so bad that you are willing to parrot their garbage?
 
You can duck, dodge, redirect, twist and turn, but the bottom line still remains. There wasn't a problem until government meddling became part of the equation. MM was happy, we were happy so...... "SOMETHING HAD TO BE DONE!"   'N that's the bottom line, no matter how hard  you try to cover it up, the fact remains, we got to this point because of government meddling in private buisiness.
 
"We have to pass this so we can find out what's in it!"
 
Uh huh! Thank a socialistdemolib!

[ChungDoQuan]

The insurance co. is playing you, CC--- just like they're playing everyone else. They're charging you more because they can. The Gov't currently has no control over private insurance costs. Remember, Obamacare has NOT STARTED YET. They're trying to blame their prices on that, and it's just bogus--- plus they get to squeeze you some more for $. That's the kind of people you are defending. I believe in a not-for-profit government's benevolence before I believe in MM's. Big corporations are not your friends. 

That's sort of like saying, "If I lay real still, maybe the bear will eat me last."   

[BUGEYE]

big money

So many of the posts by our resident liberals talk about "big money" people or greedy capitalists.
this is nothing but class warfare... they see money and they want it.  they are not concerned about about the middle class, they will bleed them as quick as they do the rich.
and they are creating a new class, former full-timers are now part-timers....

[SHOOTALL]

The insurance co. is playing you, CC--- just like they're playing everyone else. They're charging you more because they can. The Gov't currently has no control over private insurance costs. Remember, Obamacare has NOT STARTED YEToh but it has what hasn't is people don't have to comply yet , companies do As for insurance companies they have to be ready for compliance they can't wait and be caught short . But thinking ahead has never been a liberals strong suit . Which is the part of liberalism that scares the hell out of most thinking people. . They're trying to blame their prices on that, and it's just bogus--- plus they get to squeeze you some more for $. That's the kind of people you are defending. I believe in a not-for-profit government's benevolence before I believe in MM's. Big corporations are not your friends. 

[ChungDoQuan]

Thinking ahead, like starting two wars on the credit card?  Yeah, that's the kind of planners we need. 

[scootrd]

Very few corporations (if any) pay the present day corporate tax rates.

A recent study examined 280 of the largest companies in America and the taxes they paid in 2008, 2009, and 2010. All were Fortune 500 companies. And all were profitable. In fact, their pre-tax profit over that period totaled $1.4 trillion. Yet a whopping 25% of them paid federal taxes at a rate of less than 10% (compared to the standard 35% corporate tax rate). And 30 of these companies paid absolutely no income tax on their profits between 2008 and 2010.

The 78 companies that enjoyed at least one year of paying no income tax had profits equaling $156 billion. Yet instead of the $55 billion in tax revenue you'd assume the government would have received (at the 35% corporate rate), these companies (all of which -- again -- were profitable) received refund checks from the government totaling $21.8 billion. We're talking corporate giants ranging from Duke Energy and Eli Lilly to ExxonMobil and Goldman Sachs.

Eliminate these tax breaks, and the U.S. Treasury would be $473 billion richer today. Even worse, 134 of the 280 companies examined were content paying foreign taxes at a rate one-third higher than they paid in America.


 - I have absolutely Zero sympathy for corporations.  They are offshoring , outsourcing, tax avoiding nd increasing their bottom lines at the detriment of American workers. yet have the Audacity to cry "We are being taxed to death" That old song is being worn out because that record has played so much.  Just cause corporations claim it don't make it so.

Are corps being taxed to death  - No  they are Not.  Period.

Time to try a new song, old one is falling on Majority of Americans deaf ears.

[Cuts Crooked]

LOL!!!


I notice that Chung, like the other libbies here doesn't seem to want to address the real issue here....anyone else see that?

On the increase in isurance costs, which is a secondary issue here. The government like any entity can bargain with insurance companies to provide certain benefits at certain cost. Most companies try to get the best deal they can if they are picking up part of the cost. It would appear that our benevolant government simply doesn't care and ignores the rising costs.......WHILE FREEZING EMPLOYEE WAGES! Get that? Is that to complicated fer ya there pardner? Can you wrap your head around that? I really am trying to keep it simple fer ya! It sounds exactly like what y'all seem to think those evil private companies would do to their poor employees.

And then........are you paying attention?.......they create laws that adversely affect the relationship between my wife and her employer! MEDDLING!!!!!! Uneeded, unwanted, unwarrented......MEDDLING in private business.

And frankly I think the other conservatives here dead wrong.....it's NOT "unintended consequences"  I think it's FULLY INTENDED! Intended by those who told us crap like, "we have to pass it to find out what's in it!"

[BUGEYE]

A recent study examined 280 of the largest companies in America and the taxes they paid in 2008, 2009, and 2010. All were Fortune 500 companies. And all were profitable. In fact, their pre-tax profit over that period totaled $1.4 trillion. Yet a whopping 25% of them paid federal taxes at a rate of less than 10% (compared to the standard 35% corporate tax rate). And 30 of these companies paid absolutely no income tax on their profits between 2008 and 2010.

The 78 companies that enjoyed at least one year of paying no income tax
 Even worse, 134 of the 280 companies examined were content paying foreign taxes at a rate one-third higher than they paid in America.


 - I have absolutely Zero sympathy for corporations.  They are offshoring , outsourcing, tax avoiding

If all these corps pay from 10% to 0%,  why would corps go offshore and pay 20% to 30%??
nobody mentions EPA restrictions which severely limit new growth.  paying higher taxes in a foreign country can be cheaper for a corp than battling obamas job killing EPA thugs.
you need to read Dixie Dudes posts on EPA regulations.  not only is it very expensive to comply, the EPA charges another huge fee to TELL you that you comply.

[BUGEYE]

Bugeye,,,corps move off shore so they can access cheap slave labor primairly and dispense with local labor, Secondly, they may be closer to raw material stream and energy stream.  Primarily their advantage is to employee cheap slave labor...also they are closer to emerging markets. There are certain tax advantages, both corporate and personal, to offshoring, too....Bush Jr. made sure of that.
.
 BTW..DD is involved with the energy, gas, fracking, transporting of fuel business, etc.....And well this sector of the economy needs to be under the enviornmental microscope at all times. Ever hear of the BP Gulf gusher...?
.
..TM7

20% to over 30% on big profits wipes out any savings on labor.  obamas EPA has driven corps out of the country, along with forced government health insurance.
as an example of stupid government regulations, OSHA made Delta paint the bottom of stairway landings with yellow paint so you wouldn't bump your head.  the bottom of the landings were 8ft off the ground.    sasquatch might have bumped it....

[dwalk]

in the end...the whole nation will suffer as a result of obamacare...all but the extremely wealthy, like Donald Trump, as an example...i have no ill will towards those who are wealthy IF they have earned it honestly. i do not feel they owe me anything because they make more than i do. to think otherwise is convoluted IMO.


just who, pray tell, is to pay for this so-called "Health care"? in the end...it will be the taxpayer at ALL levels; not just the wealthy and the american businesses.


someone mentioned "Unintended consequences" earlier...this AHCA will bring the country to it's knees in a short time once fully implemented.


IMO, since the IRS has  been brought onto this...it WILL spell disaster for many, many, lower income households. the IRS is ruthless, merciless and will pursue a taxpayer relentlessly for a pittance...


ask me how i know that: "Oh, you own your house? well, we will not deal with you. pay up or we'll sell your home from under you."


in case you're wondering, the lien reads: "We have put a lien on ALL your property and all you may acquire in the future"...this is for ANY amount of taxes they feel you owe...you will NOT prevail against the IRS. the IRS is congresses own private, internal, army to be used against the population.


the power to tax, IS the power to destroy...


that, my friends, is how obama care will be funded.


oh, BTW...when a corporation is taxed at a rate of 30% OR MORE, isn't 30% of, say, 7 billion dollars, A LOT OF MONEY? is it difficult to see why there is objections? and why should the government be given 49% of an inheritance?

[BUGEYE]

in the end...the whole nation will suffer as a result of obamacare...all but the extremely wealthy, like Donald Trump, as an example...i have no ill will towards those who are wealthy IF they have earned it honestly. i do not feel they owe me anything because they make more than i do. to think otherwise is convoluted IMO.


just who, pray tell, is to pay for this so-called "Health care"? in the end...it will be the taxpayer at ALL levels; not just the wealthy and the american businesses.


someone mentioned "Unintended consequences" earlier...this AHCA will bring the country to it's knees in a short time once fully implemented.


IMO, since the IRS has  been brought onto this...it WILL spell disaster for many, many, lower income households. the IRS is ruthless, merciless and will pursue a taxpayer relentlessly for a pittance...


ask me how i know that: "Oh, you own your house? well, we will not deal with you. pay up or we'll sell your home from under you."


in case you're wondering, the lien reads: "We have put a lien on ALL your property and all you may acquire in the future"...this is for ANY amount of taxes they feel you owe...you will NOT prevail against the IRS. the IRS is congresses own private, internal, army to be used against the population.


the power to tax, IS the power to destroy...


that, my friends, is how obama care will be funded.


oh, BTW...when a corporation is taxed at a rate of 30% OR MORE, isn't 30% of, say, 7 billion dollars, A LOT OF MONEY? is it difficult to see why there is objections? and why should the government be given 49% of an inheritance?

The answer is, obama is introducing COMMUNISM and liberals are playing along hoping to be part of the ruling party.. but they are the useful idiots we hear about.

[ChungDoQuan]

Obamacare was passed with a single intent: to initiate the move to Single Payer insurance. As complicated as the law is, it's no more complicated than the health care "system" as it stands. The one thing that IS built into the law is that it leads the states to go to a Single Payer plan under Medicaid. Since Medicaid is state administered, sitting state Republicans will go for that, especially since it's cheaper. All they have to do is make it universal, and it's legal under the federal law. At last count 20 states are doing just that. PLUS, since the states are not under the same restrictions as say, Medicare, those programs CAN negotiate with companies for lower rates on drugs and services, lowering costs even more. That's what Obamacare is designed to do--- it was never intended to become the ultimate health care program. Ultimately, it puts a cap on what the insurance corporations can charge, by giving them a cost-controlled adversary to compete with.

Obamacare will continually be modified and changed until ALL states will be pressured to go to Single Payer, universal insurance. It will take years, but, ultimately, the US will be dragged into the 20th century for their healthcare. Oh, yeah, it's the 21st century... so we'll only be 100 years behind. 

[Cuts Crooked]

Your angst at me is just more ill gotten emotion...I didn't write or want Obamacare, but I'm sure MM had a hand in it._ _I wanted a simple Public Option. Got that!?  Your problem is with MM and yourself. Try taking some of your own advice you freely deal out and quit blaming your problems on everybody elses around and the governmnet.
.
...TM7

What angst? You keep ducking the real issue, using hundreds of words to justify doing so and trying to ignore the obvious....that's all.

Again...Job benefited MM and us, government stuck it's nose in, no one wins.

Blaming MM for the governments actions is like blaming the electric fence when you get shocked by peeing on it.

[ChungDoQuan]

I believe he's blaming MM for their own actions. Things change. You probably can't make living as a tanner nowadays, either. Once you could. 20 years ago job experts were saying you couldn't depend on a single job all your life anymore. The only consistent thing is change. The past is gone, and it's not coming back. There are no simple answers to complicated problems.


I just want to know one thing: "Where the heck is my flying car?" 

[Cuts Crooked]

I believe he's blaming MM for their own actions.

Nope! Putting the blame squarely where it belongs..........On government interference in private business. Again, wasn't a problem until the government stuck it's nose in. You sure seem to have a problem with that concept though.

[DDZ]

Obamacare was passed with a single intent: to initiate the move to Single Payer insurance. As complicated as the law is, it's no more complicated than the health care "system" as it stands. The one thing that IS built into the law is that it leads the states to go to a Single Payer plan under Medicaid. Since Medicaid is state administered, sitting state Republicans will go for that, especially since it's cheaper. All they have to do is make it universal, and it's legal under the federal law. At last count 20 states are doing just that. PLUS, since the states are not under the same restrictions as say, Medicare, those programs CAN negotiate with companies for lower rates on drugs and services, lowering costs even more. That's what Obamacare is designed to do--- it was never intended to become the ultimate health care program. Ultimately, it puts a cap on what the insurance corporations can charge, by giving them a cost-controlled adversary to compete with.

Obamacare will continually be modified and changed until ALL states will be pressured to go to Single Payer, universal insurance. It will take years, but, ultimately, the US will be dragged into the 20th century for their healthcare. Oh, yeah, it's the 21st century... so we'll only be 100 years behind. 

The reason Obamacare was passed was to decrease our individual liberty and to take another step toward the nanny state. You make it sound like they did this to make things better for us.
The SC even skirted the Constitution, which has become a habit. The door is open. I can't wait to see what we will have to buy next. Now they gave the Federal Government the power to force you to buy private goods and services.
The IRS will be given the task of hunting down and penalizing millions of Americans that don't have health insurance. To put the icing on everything, hordes of new government bureaucrats will be required to implement all the provisions in Obamacare. Wonder how we will ever fund this, being that we are already drowning in debt. Oh, I forgot. The plan is to make the rich pay their fair share.
 If you think this this is going to move us ahead, you are highly mistaken. Try to look at it through something other than rose colored glasses. Its governments plan to make you and others think what they are doing is a good thing for all.