Author Topic: How accurate is the Handi? (Read 3391 times)

Ram4x4 · « **on:** November 07, 2012, 05:19:13 PM »

As I mentioned in previous post, looking to acquire a Handi in .204 Ruger. I'll be replacing the stocks with laminate thumbholer and most likely perform some trigger work ala the great FAQ here (I do have some experience with polishing lock parts in other guns with pretty good results, so this won't be my first time attempting such).

My question is, what sort of accuracy can I expect to squeeze out this little baby? I reload so I expect to work up my own loads.

I don't expect Savage 12 or Rem 700 SPS accuracy, but just curious what I might expect.

Anyone shooting a bull barrel in .204? What kind of groups are you getting?

Wagguy80 · « **Reply #1 on:** November 07, 2012, 05:49:29 PM »

I think 1½" groups are excellent for a Handi in most cases. However I have seen some with professionally stubbed barrels shooting MOA or better.

However that's if you want to dump $350 into a $250 rifle. That also included some other fine tuning as well.

demented · « **Reply #2 on:** November 07, 2012, 09:14:43 PM »

I've owned three, my 30-30 is by far the best shooting of them. It'll do just over an inch all day. My stainless 243 was horrible, my 308 Ultra did about three inches, neither good enough for me to keep.

keith44 · « **Reply #3 on:** November 07, 2012, 11:08:56 PM »

Ok so accuracy?? Hunting level accuracy can be expected. My 45-70 gets 2" at 50 yards with open (stock) sights, my .44 mag does about the same. My .22 K-Hornet holds 1/2" groups at 80 yards with my handloads.

DO NOT lighten the trigger pull much if at all. You will end up with light primer strikes due to how the transfer bar system is set up.

hoytcanon · « **Reply #4 on:** November 08, 2012, 01:17:40 AM »

Accuracy is an issue that many Handi owners "skirt around." The truth is that most Handi's are 3-4" guns... most of mine started in that range... I tweaked all of them and messed with loads until they were consistently under 2" (@100 or 50 for pistol calibers)... Most guns can be made to be reasonably accurate with a little work... polishing, bedding, "O" rings, pet loads, good optics and minor trigger work all help to shrink group sizes... I have a 7mm-08, .243, .30/30 and .308 that are legitimately under an inch (consistently), I won't ever sell those guns... a couple guns that I had could not be made (by me) to shoot better than 4" and these were sold with full disclosure.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #5 on:** November 08, 2012, 02:04:38 AM »

Quote from: Ram4x4 on November 07, 2012, 05:19:13 PM

As I mentioned in previous post, looking to acquire a Handi in .204 Ruger. I'll be replacing the stocks with laminate thumbholer and most likely perform some trigger work ala the great FAQ here (I do have some experience with polishing lock parts in other guns with pretty good results, so this won't be my first time attempting such).

My question is, what sort of accuracy can I expect to squeeze out this little baby? I reload so I expect to work up my own loads.

I don't expect Savage 12 or Rem 700 SPS accuracy, but just curious what I might expect.

Anyone shooting a bull barrel in .204? What kind of groups are you getting?

WELCOME!!

I got a 204 in a trade, and not ever loading for a 20 cal, I decided I did not need ti and sold it off. It seems to be a caliber not too many have or shoot. No preticular reason I can think of. I know I read of good accuracy in past posts when it was first offered...

Most of my handis are quite accurate. This is because I tinkered with them to make them so. Scopes aside, I have spent VERY little to make them better shooters!! Here is a couple targets of ones I reciently shot for the upcoming deer season...

My 32-20 Trotter specail shoots AA1680 and a 123g Spitzer at nearly 2000fps into one hole at 50 yards.

Same 32-20 gun shooting 100g XTP bullets at 2200fps @ 100 yards

My 45 Colt carbine W 1X Nikon shoots a load of SR4756 and a 200FTX bullet into about 1.5/2" @ 50 yards.

My Shorty 357 Maxi, Shooting AA1680 powder and a 180 SSP bullet reaches 2200 fps and shoots about 1/1.5'' at 50 yards.

My 356 Win shooting a starting load of H335 powder shoots the 200RN bulet into one hole at 50 yards.

My 22Mag shoots Federal 50G HPs into a inch at 50 yards

This is a old pic, but my 12G USH shoots Buck Hammers into ONE HOLE @ 100 yards!

My hornet likes Lil gun and a 35G Hornady bullet @100

My 223 HB nickle likes a 45G bullet and 2015 powder to shoot 3/4MOA at 100yards.

I had a 500 S&W that would do 2"@ 100 with lead slugs but consistantly threw one bullet inches out of the group shooting jacketed.

I had a 243 LW WAY back that was 4"at 50 yards. Both of these guns have been sold.

Follow the FAQ's and you will likley be rewarded with a acceptable shooting handi!

CW

hoytcanon · « **Reply #6 on:** November 08, 2012, 03:35:53 AM »

CW reminded me of something that I should have mentioned... I was thinking centerfire, as that is what your question was related to... however the most notable exception in the accuracy department (new, out-of-the-box), was my Sportster .17 HMR's and HM2's... I have four, and they were ALL under an inch... did I get lucky (very) or is this the standard??? Also, a recently purchased Hornet barrel (used) prints under an inch with 35 V-Max AND 45 SP Hornet (.224) loads... and a decade old .30/30 barrel started under an inch with 150 BT's... but both of these were used barrels and it is unclear whether or not work had been done to them (I suspect not). Accuracy aside, I love Handi rifles... there is something so pure in their economy and simplicity... and they feel so good carried in hand and snuggled into the shoulder... and as a bowhunter of four decades... I like the necessity of ONE, WELL PLACED bullet.

Jimbo47 · « **Reply #7 on:** November 08, 2012, 03:42:43 AM »

I've had several Handi's over the years and all have shot better than I can shoot them.
I had a .223 a couple years back that I sold the barrel to a member here that would shoot one ragged hole at 100 yards and I'm not a "bench shooter" but I rely on just a good steady rest which is anything that acts as a sandbag to rest the rifle on. No sleds in other words.
I've now got my 45-70 dialed in at 100 yards that shoots 1.5" groups with a 400 grain jacketed soft point and just waiting for that big buck to step out this year. With the rut just a week or two away, it should be barking shortly.

petemi · « **Reply #8 on:** November 08, 2012, 04:23:47 AM »

I've had MANY Handis over the past few years. five .357s, four 7mm-08s, three .22-250s, etc. etc. All of them shot better than I can with one exception. That one was a .22-250 that H&R warrantied for me. When it came back it was minute of angle. I shot a group at 300 yards with my Superlight .243 you could cover with a quarter and the other 5 groups were inside 2.5 inches. Outside of an "O" ring on the forend stud, nothing was done with these rifle. My Marlin leverguns don't come close to the Handis.

Pete

thejanitor · « **Reply #9 on:** November 08, 2012, 04:43:22 AM »

You are asking a pretty broad question- You asked about accuracy in a handi- My handi rifles shoot just as good as my bolt guns, and I have spent no money on stubs or anything other than fitting the forend better and adding a rubber oring. Under one inch group is what my bolts will do and under one inch groups is what my handis do, And no not every day.... but my bolts group "off" somedays too, depends if I just had a triple shot esspresso or whatever, but I do feel you can have a regular handi that will perform as well as a model 70 bolt gun maybe out of the box, but with a few simple inexpensive tweaks and hand loads for sure. I do not spend a lot on my Handis, but they are good guns. But for someone to post that you will only get 2 inch groups because it is a off the shelf Handi they are mistaken. Some drive tacks. As with any gun there are many variables ( and for me if I came from the coffee shop) But I don't think a blanket statement that Handis shoot poorly without top dollar modifications is a accurate one. You can do as much or as little as you want, - for me, MOA is as good as I will ever need. thejanitor

Brian P. · « **Reply #10 on:** November 08, 2012, 08:25:57 AM »

My hb 223 will put a 10 round group into 1.25" 99% of the time. It's amazing. It's accurate enough for anything I will use it for.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #11 on:** November 08, 2012, 09:14:59 AM »

Something else I just remembered. I THINK Timmy linked it to the FAQ's...

Another CHEAP accuracy tip for you...The Limbsaver barrel DE resonator. I have a Sportster 22LR that was pittifully inaccurate... $:-\$

Here is a pic of its average accuracy BEFORE the "donut" was installed. ALL shots where with only myself shooting, SAME ammo, SAME distance. INDOOR range off a solid rest. 25 yards IIRC...

This is during...

This is how I finished up

The PROOF to me was when I removed the "donut'' and the thing would NOT shoot, BUT when I replaced it, the groups shrank!! Now I dont know if it will work for all firearms, but it sure did for that little rifle!!!

CW

poncaguy · « **Reply #12 on:** November 08, 2012, 10:04:28 AM »

My fluted barrel 204 handi shoots 1/2" to 3/4".........as does my fluted barrel 223

OSOK · « **Reply #13 on:** November 08, 2012, 11:07:26 AM »

My .204 is a standard 22" barrel put on my BC frame by H&R. I can't give you any idea about group size. I sighted it in and started using it. Nothing that has ever been under the cross hairs has ever lived to run and tell it's buddies. Crows at over 200 yards? they look like they ate some C4 after the trigger breaks.
Every Handi I have can shoot better than I can. I regularly get 1.5" groups with my BC and iron sights at 100 yards. .357 max shoots 1" all day long. Might you have to tweak it? maybe, but that is what I love about them, the work you put into them makes it feel even better when they perform.

Spanky · « **Reply #14 on:** November 08, 2012, 11:19:11 AM »

Are they benchrest accurate? No.
Will they hit a deer at 100 yds? Yes.

Just about any bolt gun in the same price range will outshoot them any day of the week. Of course you will have the guys that shot one amazing group (out of 20) with a Handi and proclaim it to be the most accurate gun in the world. It's their story and they're sticking to it. $:-\$

Speaking of accurate... I just got a new Ruger American and it's a shooter.

Spanky

TopperT · « **Reply #15 on:** November 08, 2012, 12:36:13 PM »

My .223 24" Bull on a synthetic thumbhole stock, can and will shoot sub-MOA at 100 yards

.
My .308 24" Bull on a Cinnamon Laminted Thumbhole is just as good if not a hair better

.
And I have a .22lr that is a ton of fun and is very accurate

.
My 45/70 Wesson & Harrington Buffalo is ok, but I use Black Powder loads in that one and my loads kinda vary in the accuracy dept at times.

.....maybe 4 MOA at 100. The Shikari is good with BP and cast lead out to 100, maybe 4 MOA again off a bench, no wind and low tide

.
As for the H&R's, they have been 'tinkered with a tiny bit, the .308 is from another forum member and its got a factory trigger job. Nice shooter out at 200. Shoots far better than I do.

Ram4x4 · « **Reply #16 on:** November 08, 2012, 12:44:47 PM »

So I guess my take away here is that it's a crap shoot (no pun intended). You might get one that's good and one that slings lead like a shotgun. That's about what I expected considering the cost.

It'll definitely undergo mods and work, every gun I have does, at some point. Haven't purchased one yet that shot satisfactorily out of the box. Then again, I've never bought a high dollar custom rifle either (can't afford those).

So, I guess I'll get one and then see what I can do with it. If it ends up good, I'll keep it, if not, I'll sell it.

Ram4x4 · « **Reply #17 on:** November 08, 2012, 12:48:38 PM »

Oh, forgot, lol..

Spanky, you said any bolt gun in the same price range will out shoot them. If you can point me to a .204 ruger bolt gun for $260, I'm all ears!

gendoc · « **Reply #18 on:** November 08, 2012, 01:12:15 PM »

quote :
Then again, I've never bought a high dollar custom rifle either.
unquote :

ram, even those need some hand hold'n too...........

twoshooter · « **Reply #19 on:** November 08, 2012, 01:31:13 PM »

I don't have any that will shoot over 2" at 100 yards. I cant think of anything that I need to shoot smaller, farther away. That is almost entirely cast also, so the cost is minimal, the supply virtually endless.

cudatruck · « **Reply #20 on:** November 08, 2012, 01:32:39 PM »

i m willing to be there are several guys on here that would love to prove spanky wrong. i know of a few that have walked away with other guys money just to prove the point. thinking these guns can't or won't shoot is simple minded foolishness. just check some bolt gun forums and see some of the issues guys have had. quality control seems to be an issue across the board. I do wish the handi trigger felt more like my marlin bolt gun, but that doesn't mean she won't shoot. The rifle shoots better than i can. what more could i ask?

Ram4x4 · « **Reply #21 on:** November 08, 2012, 01:48:04 PM »

Believe me, if I had about $4500 and could justify it, I'd have a Cooper model 21 Montana Varminter in 204, but that won't happen any time soon, if ever.

I'm pretty anal, or at least OCD about accuracy. Anything less than all shots through the same hole, dead center is unacceptable. I just tolerate it

Nah, seriously though, if someone made such a gun, there'd be no reason to have the plethora of wonderful firearms, parts, mods, etc we enjoy. I think the pursuit of more accurate, better looking, better shooting firearms is half the fun of owning them to begin with.

mechanic · « **Reply #22 on:** November 08, 2012, 02:00:11 PM »

Ram, I spent several afternoons trying to get my boss' super dooper top of the line Weatherby to shoot MOA....so IMO its kinda' a crap shoot these days no matter what.

Ben

Ram4x4 · « **Reply #23 on:** November 08, 2012, 02:54:56 PM »

Well, I know some of the custom shops are guaranteeing 1/2 MOA accuracy out of the box, but as I said, can't afford those. My personal experience has been "you get what you pay for". The more it cost, the better it shoots. I know, that isn't always true though.

Two best shooters I've ever had was a Howa 1500 (full camo, bell&carlson synth stock in .270) and a Rem 700 BDL in 30-06. I lapped the barrels and actions, squared the bolt faces and polished some trigger parts, worked up some loads and they were like lasers. Hit whatever I pointed them at.

Sadly, a financial situation some years ago forced the sale of them, along with a camo'd Marlin 336 in 30-30 and a Colt AR-15 in 7.62x39 (one of the original first-run productions in that chambering), but that's another story.

Spanky · « **Reply #24 on:** November 08, 2012, 04:26:42 PM »

Quote from: Ram4x4 on November 08, 2012, 12:48:38 PM

Oh, forgot, lol..

Spanky, you said any bolt gun in the same price range will out shoot them. If you can point me to a .204 ruger bolt gun for $260, I'm all ears!

I'm heading over to the gun shop tomorrow. I'll see what he's got.
Out of curiousity where are you finding new Handi's for $260? It seems like the prices are going up up up on them all the time. $:-\$

Cudatruck... I know there are lots of Handi's that shoot tiny groups but most of the time it takes alot of tinkering to get there.

I've got a few Handi's that are excellent shooters and I've had a few that couldn't hit a barn... I guess it's the luck of the draw sometimes. I'm not downing them... they are what they are... a good utillitarian gun but by no means perfect.

Spanky

mtbugle · « **Reply #25 on:** November 08, 2012, 04:43:56 PM »

not cleaning too regular also seems to improve accuracy. most like to be well fouled to stay consistant.
Thanks Don.

tacklebury · « **Reply #26 on:** November 08, 2012, 04:58:59 PM »

quickdtoo · « **Reply #27 on:** November 08, 2012, 05:05:08 PM »

Quote from: Spanky on November 08, 2012, 04:26:42 PM

Out of curiousity where are you finding new Handi's for $260? It seems like the prices are going up up up on them all the time. $:-\$

I checked out Handis at Wholesale Sports yesterday, regular price is $250 for wood and $270 for synthetic .

Also stopped at a nearby pawn shop to see if he had and H&Rs, they had one 500S&W Handi in their rack for $380!!!!

Tim

Spanky · « **Reply #28 on:** November 08, 2012, 05:53:19 PM »

That $380 is pretty steep for the 500.

My local guy is selling synthetic Handi's for $279 and wood for $269 so he's pretty close to the online prices. If I want something he doesn't have in stock he charges an extra $12 for shipping. $:-\$ By the time you get out the door it's pretty close to $300.

Back a couple years ago he was selling them for $239. They were a pretty good buy then. Not so much now.

Spanky

quickdtoo · « **Reply #29 on:** November 08, 2012, 06:11:03 PM »

That $380 was a for a used(pawned) 500S&W!!

I wasn't interested, or I would have made a "reasonable" offer just to see what he'd sell it for.

Wholesale Sports(was Sportsman's Warehouse) sold Handis for $199, Ultras for $240 and BCs and Targets for $300($350 for the BC now) not too long ago, so they still have good prices.I can save sales tax by going to the Portland store, but they charge $10 or $11 for the background check, so there's no point. $:-\$ Right now I have everything they sell, so I ain't buying anything anyway!

Tim