How accurate is the Handi?

[hoytcanon]

In Canuckville... Handi's are going for $280 in pallett wood and $290 in synthetic... but I just got one on sale for $239 shipping included... I thought that was a pretty good deal. 

[petemi]

I had another thought concerning this thread:

Just about any bolt gun in the same price range will outshoot them any day of the week. Of course you will have the guys that shot one amazing group (out of 20) with a Handi and proclaim it to be the most accurate gun in the world. It's their story and they're sticking to it.
 
Spanky

Tim has been quiet so far in this thread as far as accuracy goes.  In the past, Tim has posted literally hundreds of target pictures that he shot with Handis.  Most are MOA or Sub-MOA.  These are not "one amazing group out of 20", but represent years of shooting with fifty or so Handis.  I think his experience repudiates the statement   "Just about any bolt gun in the same price range will outshoot them any day of the week."

Pete

[knight0334]

They can compete with a $10000 rifle in accuracy if you do your part.   Read this - http://www.gun-tests.com/performance/feb97money.html


Sure, not every Handi will be a topnotch gun - but for the price you have a darn good chance of it being one.   Yes, you may have to tweak it, you may have to hunt down a load for the gun, and you may have to adjust your shooting habits - but the Handi is capable.

How my guns perform:
1.  .22Hornet(cheap 3-9x32 scope) = 3/4" to 1" groups ALL day long dirty or clean.
2.  .225Win(6-12x40 scope) = 1" to 1-1/4" groups, prefers a 5 to 10shot dirty barrel (this gun was a 22" .22Hornet that I reamed to .225Win).
3.  .223Rem(6-12x50 scope) = 1/2" to 3/4" groups within a 5 to 10shot dirty barrel,  will do 1/2" to 1" groups with with a clean to 5 shot barrel and a 10+ shot dirty barrel
4.  .45-70(open sights) = ragged one-hole groups at 50yrd,  cloverleaf at 100yrds with factory Winchester 300gr JHP Super-X
5.  .45-120(open sights) = dead woodchucks with open sights 500+ yards, but it usually take 2-5 "walking shots" for ME to get it on the whistlepig.
6.  .30-30(open sights) = 1" to 1-1/2" groups all day long dirty or clean
7.  .44mag(open sights) = 2" groups at 50yards with American Eagle 240gr JHP

[quickdtoo]

I have to say that a shooter unfamiliar with a Handi would probably get the best out-of-the-box accuracy with a bolt gun due to the nature of the Handi action, being aware of little things like trigger pull, closing the action firmly each time and a clean latch and shelf can make the difference between good and poor accuracy. Personally I've never had a problem achieving acceptable hunting accuracy(2" or under @ 100yds) with any H&R rifle, and with the right factory ammo or handload much better than that.

I just had a related discussion yesterday with my huntin/fishing partner on hunting accuracy and firearm choice. He has an H&R 223 Ultra Varmint, but is basically a bolt gun hunter, he carries a Browning Medallion 270Win that he's hunted with for years, he doesn't handload, his only complaint is how particular it is for ammo, it doesn't like most ammo, most shoots ~2" @100yds, unacceptable for him, but with the right ammo it will shoot bug hole size groups, sound familiar? We drew cow tags last year and he didn't want to hunt with the 270, he has a Rem M700 30-06 that is the same way, it shoots most ammo into 2", but he wanted better accuracy, he tried at least half a dozen different factory rounds before he found one that shot under an inch.   

Tim

[knight0334]

I agree, Tim.

Handi's can be very particular about the load.  The only ones I found that like warm or hot loads are the big bores, 44cal or 45cal.   The rest like middle of the road loads/pressure for peak performance.

And absolutely - most folks will be better off with an out-of-the-box bolt gun.   Some folk refuse to tinker and/or expect the gun to give them what they want without any work.   With some of today's cheap boltguns, a person can get nearly instant accuracy by just adjusting the scope that was already mounted on their boxed boltgun - for the same dollar amount, sometimes less.   ...now, that wasn't a sales plug for boltguns because I absolutely hate them.  I'm just stating an educated opinion despite my favoritism for singleshots(and leverguns).

[Jeff H]

My limited experience with the Handi is still worthy of mention because it literally shocked me at  how well it shot.
 
I bought a .223 Synthetic Youth from someone on this forum a few years ago.  This is about a five pound rifle with flimsy plastic forearm, stubby plastic butt stock and a short and very slender barrel.  It looks and feels like it came out of the toy aisle at a department store.
 
Now, I like the .223 and have shot a few very accurate (and considerably more expensive) rifles chambered in that cartridge, so the standard I hold the .223 to and the results I expectd from my "cute" littlr rifle were quite different.  Four inch groups would have fallen into line with what I expected - and I know that might sound snobbish, but who would reasonably expect a cute, cheap  little gun to shoot well too?
 
The first thing I ran through it was some full patch, 55 grain Federal stuff.  I came into a small lot of commercially loaded ammo and needed to free up the brass for some "serious" handloads for one of my "real" guns.
 
Imagine my surprise when that little NEF put five rounds into a fuzz over an inch at a hundred yards (with a Weaver fixed six power scope)!  I tired it again and the rifle did it again.  A few more groups to free up a full box of twenty cases and it shot all groups the same.  Now, one-inch groups from a .223 is not all that great, but from one that handles and looks like a BB gun, I believe that, with some attention to handloading detail and a tweak or two from the FAQs, that it could possibly shoot well under an inch - perhaps under three quarters.
 
I have only shot cast from it since - just doing the preliminary testing at close range to get the seating depth and case prep variables under control, but it shows considerable more promise with cast than my CZ 527.  At squirrel-hunting distances, the rounds I have discharged into a stump to work out early details have all piled up on top of one another using the factory open sights.

[Spanky]

My limited experience with the Handi is still worthy of mention because it literally shocked me at  how well it shot.
 
I bought a .223 Synthetic Youth from someone on this forum a few years ago.  This is about a five pound rifle with flimsy plastic forearm, stubby plastic butt stock and a short and very slender barrel.  It looks and feels like it came out of the toy aisle at a department store.
 
Now, I like the .223 and have shot a few very accurate (and considerably more expensive) rifles chambered in that cartridge, so the standard I hold the .223 to and the results I expectd from my "cute" littlr rifle were quite different.  Four inch groups would have fallen into line with what I expected - and I know that might sound snobbish, but who would reasonably expect a cute, cheap  little gun to shoot well too?
 
The first thing I ran through it was some full patch, 55 grain Federal stuff.  I came into a small lot of commercially loaded ammo and needed to free up the brass for some "serious" handloads for one of my "real" guns.
 
Imagine my surprise when that little NEF put five rounds into a fuzz over an inch at a hundred yards (with a Weaver fixed six power scope)!  I tired it again and the rifle did it again.  A few more groups to free up a full box of twenty cases and it shot all groups the same.  Now, one-inch groups from a .223 is not all that great, but from one that handles and looks like a BB gun, I believe that, with some attention to handloading detail and a tweak or two from the FAQs, that it could possibly shoot well under an inch - perhaps under three quarters.
 
I have only shot cast from it since - just doing the preliminary testing at close range to get the seating depth and case prep variables under control, but it shows considerable more promise with cast than my CZ 527.  At squirrel-hunting distances, the rounds I have discharged into a stump to work out early details have all piled up on top of one another using the factory open sights.

 
I'm wanting to shoot some cast out of my wife's superlight 223 but don't really know where to start. Could you PM me some load info?
 
 
 
Spanky

[Ram4x4]

 
I'm heading over to the gun shop tomorrow. I'll see what he's got.
Out of curiousity where are you finding new Handi's for $260? It seems like the prices are going up up up on them all the time.
 
 

Actually, I was off a little:  $249

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/11744

[Spanky]

You forgot a few things... tax, shipping and FFL costs on your end.   You can probably add another $50 to that price by the time you've got it in your hands.
 
 
 
Spanky

[Jeff H]

.........Could you PM me some load info?
 
Spanky

Done

[gcrank1]

How accurate is the Handi?
Well, some days I seems to have a hard time getting satisfactory groups. I will grab something else I KNOW is an accurate gun and load with comparable sighting equipment and, low and behold, it wont group either! Whats with that?,,,,,,,,,oops, the common denominator is ME.
Yeah, sometimes you will get a lemon, and I hope yours wont be, but it does happen. You can see from my signature line below that I have a few (and these are just the 'Handi' type guns). I know accuracy from years of competition and have won, placed and not placed with a of of good shooters. Most of my high priced guns are now gone; funny what has stayed (again, see below). I do not get OC about paper groups with these (and believe me, I am prone to OC behavior) but shoot at steel and 'field spots' mostly to emulate practical field shooting with cast bullet loads. They hit pretty durn well for me under these conditions/demands.
If you want a benchrest platform get whatever most of the benchrest (or whatever 'game' you choose) are using and work from there; it will likely save you time and money. If you want a 'sleeper' that in skilled hands can embarrass a lot of high priced guns in so-so skilled hands (the average shooter), then these might just be your ticket. Just dont ever make the mistake of shooting against Gendoc for pink-slips  .

[quickdtoo]

To get back to the OP's original question, I have a 204 Ruger Handi made when they first were available in 2004-2005, I never found a good shooting factory load, everything 32gr-40gr shot ~ 1½" at 100yds, then Mitchell got one and found max loads of BLC2 with 40gr Vmaxes shot excellent, he was getting groups in the .250" size reqularly! So I tried it and was rewarded with sub inch groups first time to the range. I know LONGTOM has had more than one 204 Ruger H&R and his shoot excellent as well, as do many others here. 

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,59248.msg355457.html#msg355457

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,244778.msg1099410621.html#msg1099410621

[tacklebury]

I'm wanting to shoot some cast out of my wife's superlight 223 but don't really know where to start. Could you PM me some load info?

In case there are others I've been playing with cast and low power loads in .223 and found this data very useful. 
http://www.castpics.net/subsite2/ByCaliber/Cast%20in%20the%20.223.pdf
http://www.castpics.net/subsite2/ByCaliber/Cast%20in%20the%20.223,%20Part%20II.pdf
http://www.castpics.net/subsite2/ByCaliber/Cast%20in%20the%20.223,%20Part%20III.pdf

[evan1395]

As I mentioned in previous post, looking to acquire a Handi in .204 Ruger.  I'll be replacing the stocks with laminate thumbholer and most likely perform some trigger work ala the great FAQ here (I do have some experience with polishing lock parts in other guns with pretty good results, so this won't be my first time attempting such). 

My question is, what sort of accuracy can I expect to squeeze out this little baby?  I reload so I expect to work up my own loads.

I don't expect Savage 12 or Rem 700 SPS accuracy, but just curious what I might expect.

Anyone shooting a bull barrel in .204?  What kind of groups are you getting?

Here is my Handi chambered in .45-70 performing around the 300 yard mark...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0jbSH4AfGs
 
These are real tight little units...

[wvrealtor]

They shoot very well. 100 yds, light wind, one of my handloads.

Later,
  Stephen

[tturner53]

Groups from the bench is fine, I do a lot of that and it's fun. But, I'm wondering about what some of you guys get as far as first shot from a cold barrel type accuracy, like for a hunting rifle? It's hunting season and my thinking tends to go along the 'first shot' lines. Can you pull your Handi out of the case, head out into the cold and know right where that first shot will go?

[cwlongshot]

Groups from the bench is fine, I do a lot of that and it's fun. But, I'm wondering about what some of you guys get as far as first shot from a cold barrel type accuracy, like for a hunting rifle? It's hunting season and my thinking tends to go along the 'first shot' lines. Can you pull your Handi out of the case, head out into the cold and know right where that first shot will go?

Personally I don't own a rifle of any design that shoots its first shot any differently than its last...

MOST of these kind of problems are bedding issues.

I once had a 70's Remington 760 in 308. I liked (still do) the rifle but it was plagues with this problem your speaking about. It's first shot from a cold barrel was inches out of the group is would fire with subsiquent rounds at fifty yards. No matter what I did to try to stop it. I traded the rifle to a friend who swore he could fix it. I got a wonders accurate 7600 in 6MM Remington. I was fine with that.

So to answer your question, YES mine shoot just fine from a cold barrel. I will "test" that Wednesday AM.

CW

[Ram4x4]

Spanky,

  Yeah, I'm aware of the taxes, shipping and all that, it's a given.  even  if I buy in a local shop, there's still tax and most local shops are gonna be priced slightly higher anyway to reflect the shipping.

Still...if you can tell me where I can get a bolt gun in .204 for $250ish I'd be interested...and maybe I should qualify that with "brand new"!   


I fully understand the whole "hunting accuracy" thing, but this a .204, not an '06.  1-2" groups at 100 or so yards would be fine for gun hunting large critters, but a .204 brings the visions of whistle pig sized critters at 200-300 yards.  If that means I have to tinker to get it, then so be it.  I've never been a "pull it out the box and accept it" kind of person anyway.  Tinkering is a large part of the fun for me.  Can it result in a gun that still won't shoot?  Sure, but from what I'm reading here, it sounds like the handi is more than capable.  Looking forward to the challenge.

My personal regimen for determining accuracy potential involves firing the gun from a mount first.  I have to remove the human element as much as possible in order to determine the true accuracy potential.  I always strive for a gun that can shoot better than I can so I never have the excuse "it must be the gun".

I shoot, or have shot in competition since the mid 80's (IPSC) and even competed in the Berlin Open when I was stationed in Berlin, GE in the Air Force.  In the last couple years I've taken to small bore indoors shooting an Anschutz and Winchester 52.  I'm by no means "joe pro", but I like to think I do pretty good in the shooting department.  I at least know the principles...application consistency escapes me on occasion...well, ok, often 

Yeah, I have to admit, I'm looking take a handi and go embarrass a few owners of much higher dollar varmint guns, but not out of spite or malice (I mean, these are friends), more of a friendly ribbing sort of thing.

[Spanky]

Spanky,

Still...if you can tell me where I can get a bolt gun in .204 for $250ish I'd be interested...and maybe I should qualify that with "brand new"!   

Yeah, I have to admit, I'm looking take a handi and go embarrass a few owners of much higher dollar varmint guns, but not out of spite or malice (I mean, these are friends), more of a friendly ribbing sort of thing.

 
My local shop has 3 Marlin XS 7 bolt guns for $269 and 2 Stevens 200's for $259... all of them are new. Good luck trying to show up your buddies, don't be surprised if you get the short end of the straw.   It'd be fun trying though.
 
If you want to spend a few more bucks he's got 3 Ruger Americans... a 270 and two 30-06's. He's got them priced at $359.
 
 
At the end of hunting season I'm sure he'll have a few used bolt guns for cheap money. I'll keep track of what he's got and let you know if you're interested.
 
 
 
Spanky
 
 
 

[quickdtoo]

Spanky,

Still...if you can tell me where I can get a bolt gun in .204 for $250ish I'd be interested...and maybe I should qualify that with "brand new"!   

 
My local shop has 3 Marlin XS 7 bolt guns for $269 and 2 Stevens 200's for $259... all of them are new. Good luck trying to show up your buddies, don't be surprised if you get the short end of the straw.   It'd be fun trying though.
 
If you want to spend a few more bucks he's got 3 Ruger Americans... a 270 and two 30-06's. He's got them priced at $359.
 
 
At the end of hunting season I'm sure he'll have a few used bolt guns for cheap money. I'll keep track of what he's got and let you know if you're interested.
 
 
 
Spanky

Neither the Stevens nor the Marlin is offered in 204 Ruger. 

Tim

[Ram4x4]

Yeah, 204 Ruger is the one requirement that is a must.

[Spanky]

Yeah, 204 Ruger is the one requirement that is a must.

OK... I'll check out one of the other local shops and see what he's got.
 
 
 
Spanky

[gcrank1]

I have an excellent report on the Ruger American locally, though I havent checked, it 'should' be avail in that caliber? If so, and I were you, I would sure be checking it out in short order.

[quickdtoo]

The Ruger American isn't available in 204 Ruger either, 243 Win is as close it gets.

Tim

http://www.ruger.com/products/americanRifle/models.html

[Spanky]

I just got an American in 30-06. Right now it's only available in 243, 308, 270 and 30-06. Hopefully they'll put out some other calibers soon.
 
 
 
Spanky

[quickdtoo]

I fully understand the whole "hunting accuracy" thing, but this a .204, not an '06.  1-2" groups at 100 or so yards would be fine for gun hunting large critters, but a .204 brings the visions of whistle pig sized critters at 200-300 yards. 

If the 204 Handi will work for prairie dogs at 452yds, it'll work fine for you at 200-300yds. 

Tim

Mitchell's 2005 report in the H&R Prairie Dog Shoot forum:

and boy was is fun i just got back about 5 mins ago i haven't even unpacked yet.  and like what has already been said i did make a 452 yard shot (people keep leaving out that "2") with my 204 ruger handi to the best of my knowledge its the longest shot with a handi, although a lot of people where popping them out a lot father with bolt actions. for me my total was probably about 500 dogs and like warf said (yes warf i'm bragging) i got 12 doubles and 2 triples. the trip was one heck of a trip i loved every minute of it . how could i not if there was anything that could make me just a little more happy wes did it, he is the best guide a guy could ask for and we are all lucky to know him and even if he don't think so he did deserved that rifle we bought him (which i might add  he did kill quite a few dogs with). the people wes had helping out where also so the best you could ask for , even if Dan sound's like a canadian (go ahead tell him that, if he threw in a "a" here and there he would fit right in)  even though they seem to be quite a prankster (they got a pic of what looks like me having quite a good time(still waiting to see that deadeye hint hint) they are still a good bunch of guys and i can not wait until next year!!


if you are all thinking about what all this talk of a rifle for wes is : we all chipped in and bought wes a 204 ruger handi rifle it was kept quiet with coded pm's(warf :? ) so that he wouldn't find out and it worked good he had no idea nd his face was priceless when i gave it to him.


guys it was great to finally meet all of you !! i can't wait until next year when i get to see you all again. there was some of you that i didn't get to spend as much time with maybe next year we can make those bs'ing time a little longer.

[wilto56]

with out going back to the quotes, It was said that "You get what you pay for" It was also said that the price of the Handis keep going up and up and up" Maybe that is telling you something. anyhow,, If you get one that dosn't perform to suit you, You can get another barrel of most any cal. for around $100.00

[quickdtoo]

anyhow,, If you get one that dosn't perform to suit you, You can get another barrel of most any cal. for around $100.00

Second hand, yes, but not a factory fitted accessory barrel which will cost about $160 after shipping, fitting and tax. 

Tim

[tnpaul12]

I knew a guy who always carried a 38cal pencil with him th the range.

[Ram4x4]

Ah geez, I guess it will be next year until I get a Handi.  Wife and I went away this weekend for our anniversary and there was a brand new Dick's Sporting Goods across the road from where we were staying, and of course I had to go over.

They are having a sale on the Remington 700 SPS varmint package (gun with synthetic, camo stock, 4x12 scope, hard case and sling) for $449.  They announced today that on Black Friday this package will go for $449 plus another $100 rebate coupon, so $349.  The only downside is that the package deal won't be available in 204 Ruger, so I will have to suffer with one in 22-250 or 223 (going for the 22-250)...darn, it'll be rough, but I'll get by. 

This is my Christmas present 

So Spanky, you were right, I found a bolt gun that's gonna be real close to the Handi in price (not including the laminate thumbhole replacement stocks I planned to put on it).

I figure I'll pick up the Handi in 204 next summer.