Author Topic: now for one swampy will like (Read 2147 times)

Lloyd Smale · « **on:** May 11, 2012, 09:47:17 AM »

picked up a new used model 700 7stw a while back and finaly got it to the range today. I loaded 140 sierras, 140 ballistic tips, 140 partitions, 145 speer flat base 145 speer boat tails, 145 speer grand slams, 150 ballistic tips, 150 partitions, 150 sierras and 150 scrioccos. All were loaded with 7828sc and fed mag match primers. The scirrocos and the 150 partitions went about an inch and a 1/4 for 5 shots and they were the worse shooting load. The 140 sierras and 140 ballistic tips went 3/4s for 5 and the rest hovered around an inch. Sure was refreshing after stuggling with that ruger to shoot a gun that shot about every load well. even the two 1 1/4 groups had 4 shots at an inch of less so the little differnce could have been a bad shot by me. This gun is about scary. Its got a break and it is (censored word) LOUD! But recoil is so mild that you wonder if something wrong with the ammo. Way less recoil then the 06 ruger. Id say it recoils about like a 7 lb 243. You get dirt flying off the ground for about 10 feet past where the muzzle hangs over the bench!

necchi · « **Reply #1 on:** May 11, 2012, 01:43:03 PM »

who's swampy?

corbanzo · « **Reply #2 on:** May 14, 2012, 11:39:51 AM »

Those small bullets! It's definitely weight not speed that makes recoil. My 7mmRUM with 26" barrel Shootin 150s at 3300 had less felt than my 06 Shootin 180s at 2700.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #3 on:** May 14, 2012, 12:03:58 PM »

im sure your right to a point but it recoils much less then either of my 7 rem mags do too. I have to give most of the credit to that obnociously loud muzzle break.

corbanzo · « **Reply #4 on:** May 14, 2012, 12:16:20 PM »

Yeah my Lott with win mag loads hang wit my -06 as far as recoil with the break on. But my 06 also only weighs 7lbs with its Tupperware and 22" barrel.... So it's not a very good comparison to those "full size" rifles!

Drilling Man · « **Reply #5 on:** May 15, 2012, 08:08:57 AM »

Quote from: necchi on May 11, 2012, 01:43:03 PM

who's swampy?

GBO's "mascott".

cwlongshot · « **Reply #6 on:** May 15, 2012, 08:28:54 AM »

Lloyd,

Not even close to the 1/4" groups Swampy shoots with off the shelf Remington's and std Corlokt ammo...

I read all about that caliber in shooting times back when it came to be. I was more enamored with the lil brother the STE... But what a shooter they where claimed to be!!

Glad you have a shooter!!!

Now get out there an shoot more and maybe one day when you practice enough and learn how to shoot you too can shot a 1/4 MOA grouping....

CW

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #7 on:** May 15, 2012, 10:30:14 AM »

ya but it i can shoot 3/4 in 5 shot groups in the real world i would say down swampys way that would translate into 1/10 inch groups. Scary what it might do with corelocs

cwlongshot · « **Reply #8 on:** May 16, 2012, 01:27:46 AM »

Quote from: Lloyd Smale on May 15, 2012, 10:30:14 AM

ya but it i can shoot 3/4 in 5 shot groups in the real world i would say down swampys way that would translate into 1/10 inch groups. Scary what it might do with corelocs

LOL!!!!!

CW

Swampman · « **Reply #9 on:** May 16, 2012, 02:35:22 AM »

With Remington factory ammo it will do much better. Not a fan of any of the 7s but most are minute of deer. I could tolerate a 7X57 I suppose. Nothing shoots like a 30 caliber.

BBF · « **Reply #10 on:** May 16, 2012, 10:39:34 AM »

ARRRGH !!

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #11 on:** May 17, 2012, 01:30:23 AM »

had it out again yesterday and it shot a couple honest 1/2 groups with 140 plain based sierras and 150 ballistic tips. this is hands down the best shooting rifle of any caliber and any barrel weight ive ever owned. It will never leave my possesion until they sprinkle my ashes!

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #12 on:** May 17, 2012, 01:33:15 AM »

I guess if the quality of corelock ammo (which by the way i do like) is so match like why when i pulled down a couple boxes of 280s a couple years ago did the powder charge between the heaviest charge and lightest charge out of those two boxes which were the same lot number vary a full 5 grains in weight. Id call that sloppy ammo that would about take a miricle to group under an inch.

Swampman · « **Reply #13 on:** May 17, 2012, 08:01:49 AM »

Commerical ammo is loaded to velocity.

corbanzo · « **Reply #14 on:** May 17, 2012, 08:08:12 AM »

Doesn't powder weight decide velocity?

cwlongshot · « **Reply #15 on:** May 17, 2012, 08:30:34 AM »

Quote from: corbanzo on May 17, 2012, 08:08:12 AM

Doesn't powder weight decide velocity?

Not in the Swampsters reality.

What ever pops into his mind and supports his argument at that perticular time is all that matters. Common sence, reality or physics do not apply...

Readers new to his posts, are best served by applying a "filter" and viewing the majority of Swampy's comments as humor. Trying to apply anything more, will result in hair loss and a sore necks, from shaking your head.

Lloyd,
I seem to remember finding the same thing some years back. I bought the remainder of a case of factory 175g Corlokt 7 MM Rem Mag ammo. I pulled all saved components. (Actually Swampy has some of this brass!) I also bought a doz or so boxes of 7 MM Mauser ammo from same dealer. All was pulled, recorded and saved. All was same lots unto itself. I'll look for actual #'s but I seem to remember there was quite a variance in mine as well.

CW

corbanzo · « **Reply #16 on:** May 17, 2012, 10:07:32 AM »

Well you guys didn't know they shoot every corelock into a tomato soup can to make sure it performs correctly and load it again adjusting for velocity???

Swampman · « **Reply #17 on:** May 17, 2012, 10:58:03 AM »

Quote from: corbanzo on May 17, 2012, 08:08:12 AM

Doesn't powder weight decide velocity?

They test fire every so many rounds and tweak the amount of powder to get the velocity they want. All those rounds go in a big hopper before they are boxed. That why Lloyd found what he found.

corbanzo · « **Reply #18 on:** May 17, 2012, 11:14:37 AM »

I'm glad you are here to stir the mud to make everything clear!

Swampman · « **Reply #19 on:** May 17, 2012, 03:45:28 PM »

I've been researching these things since the 1960s. Listen and learn.

Barstooler · « **Reply #20 on:** May 17, 2012, 05:33:08 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on May 17, 2012, 03:45:28 PM

I've been researching these things since the 1960s. Listen and learn.

And I am sure you have a personal email or a reference to prove this?

Gee, from your post I though big Green weighed every bullet and then before they put the powder in the case they adjusted the specific powder weight to compensate for bullets being plus or minus a given weight.

Knowing production procedures on how companies streamline to go from production directly to packaging, I just don't buy the "big hopper" story.

I have bought one box of commercial ammo in 46 years because I bought a new piece of crap Rem 700 in 243 that would not group inside 3 inches until I did a barrel change, trued the action, and lapped the lugs. I bought that box of commercial ammo to see if all the cases, powders, bullets (70 to 105gr) and primers I loaded were wrong, but the Rem factory ammo was just as bad as my reloads. After the barrel change it became an accurate rifle but the $725 cost of the above was equal to the cost of the original rifle. I will never buy another Remington, despite the other 2 that I own were quite accurate out of the box. The Rem - from my perspective has a 66% success rate. Hell I had better luck getting Rugers and Winchesters, and old sporterized 1903 Springfields to shoot accurately -- they were all 100% inside 1 MOA.

Prior to that -- 46 years ago when I was starting reloading -- I used to disassemble and weigh different factory ammo and was not impressed with Rem (or Win or Fed) quality standards. They all sucked! While I understand they have improved quality control - from different web postings/forums - I am not inclined to waste good money just to verify.

My one real question for you -- are you a paid Remington shill or do you just do this for free?

Barstooler

corbanzo · « **Reply #21 on:** May 17, 2012, 08:58:03 PM »

Wow. I'm three remmies in and the worst one best group is 5/8 MOA. I'm 700 for life. I'm not corelock for life, but everybody has their shortfalls in the swamp right?

??

Swampman · « **Reply #22 on:** May 18, 2012, 12:09:15 AM »

If can't do better than MOA with an out of the box Model 700 and Core-Lokt ammo, either pay for shooting lessons or take up golf.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #23 on:** May 18, 2012, 12:52:43 AM »

commercial ammo is loaded on machines. theres set up and left to run. They may test fire an occasional round but its mostly to insure that they arent overpressure. Explain to me how if 20 rounds of 280 are in the same box loaded with the same bullet and powder and powder charges vary a full 5 grains in that box how the hell velocity is suppose to be consistant. What it shows isnt anything but the fact that the machines they are using are either not working properly or just plain worn out. Sure powders like 4350 or 4831 which are what im sure they used, arent powders that are consistant in metering in my equiptment either. thats why i use an electronic scale and dispensor with them. Even with just using an rcbs or lyman powder drop i CANT GET variations that big. Maybe one or two grains but when i see 5 grains i know something is very wrong with what there doing. 5 grains of powder in an o6 sized case is NOT TWEAKING THE CHARGE!! I also know that they dont have a machine specificaly for 280s. they make a run of them and change the machine over to another caliber so im sure its not just the 280 ammo that has this problem.
Now heres another little thing ill bring up. Ive seen loads with rifles that varied say 2 grains in powder shoot faily well at a 100 yards. But take that same load out to 300 and its not even on the paper. With a 5 grain varitation in powder in an 06 sized case your going to be lucky to shoot a 12 inch group at 300 yards and i dont care what bullet your using.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #24 on:** May 18, 2012, 12:54:02 AM »

Ive got a box of factory 140 corelock 7stw that my buddy who has the gunshop found on his shelf and gave me. Ill get out tommarow and see how they compare to my handloads.

corbanzo · « **Reply #25 on:** May 18, 2012, 01:29:08 AM »

Yeah that's crazy. My first load for my 338rum chronoed at 3049,3045,3048, 3050, and one crazy flier!!! - at 3062. Hahaha. And that's all thrown - cause I hate measuring. (except to set my thrower). And that's with rl-22, which hates throwers as much as any... And even with that when I'm setting it, my throws might be max 1/2 grain off.

But for some reason I've always been more consistent by volume than by weight. - well, I guess cause that's how you are supposed to load.... Technically... Depending who you talk to.... Swampy what says you boss??

Anyways - five grains is a lot of powder, and these guys are definitely doing volume in those cases, and in something like a 280 at 40-60 grains of powder 10% is huge!!!

Swampman · « **Reply #26 on:** May 18, 2012, 11:50:51 PM »

Each batch of powder has a different burn rate. When they change batches they don't stop the line. All these rounds are tumbled after they are loaded and then boxed. Factory ammo is very good and few can build handloads that are better.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #27 on:** May 19, 2012, 01:10:25 AM »

well id buy that if any 10 of the 40 rounds i pulled had the same charge but the weights were all over the place.

Quote from: Swampman on May 18, 2012, 11:50:51 PM

Each batch of powder has a different burn rate. When they change batches they don't stop the line. All these rounds are tumbled after they are loaded and then boxed. Factory ammo is very good and few can build handloads that are better.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #28 on:** May 19, 2012, 01:12:09 AM »

well I shot the corelock ammo. two 5 shot groups at a 100 yards. One went into an inch and one went 1 1/16 Surely not bad. Good enough a guy could buy a box and go hunting but not near as good as the better handloads which did about half that. . Recoil seemed a bit milder too. Id bet its downloaded some.

Swampman · « **Reply #29 on:** May 19, 2012, 01:56:48 AM »

All Core-Lokt ammo seems downloaded. It's at SAMMI spec.