45/70 Loads

[casper_zip]

Howdy:
 
I need/want/asking for any/all of your favorite 45/70 loads. I got a barrel from Jeff on here, and I'm loving it. So far, I'm using IMR-3031 and IMR-4198. Both are really good.
 
What I'm looking for and wanting is good power and accuracy, without the mule kick. So, with that said, help me on your favorite loads.
 
All the best,
 
casper_zip

[MSP Ret]

My all time favorite 45-70 load is a 350 grain Hornady half jacket RNFP ahead of 28.0 grains of 2400. Easy shooting, VERY accurate, and clean shooting as well.
 
And by the way you mistakenly posted this in the shotgun section. Hopefully a moderator will be by in a while to move it...<><....

[bikerbeans]

CZ,
If you don't want a big kick with a stock 22" Handi then I would suggest a load that mimicks the 405 Remington SP factory ammo.  405 grain bullet at around 1,200 to 1,300 fps.  Pretty much equivalent to the a blackpowder 45-70 load from the 19th century.  Worked on buffalos should work on any game you are after.
BB

[twoshooter]

For jacketed hunting loads, 47 gr of RL7 and the 300 gr Rem or Hornady HP. But what I shoot the most is a 330 gr cast FBHP from Lyman ( Lee 340 FN is very close also) and 32.5 gr of IMR4198. Very pleasant to shoot, very accurate in my gun. The heavier the bullet, the bigger the recoil.

[tacklebury]

similar to twoshooter.  I am currently using 49 gr. Reloader7 and Hornady 350gr. FP bullet.  I found the 300 hp damages more meat, so went seeking.  The 350 hits hard, penetrates well and doesn't over expand even when going through bones.  The 350 can also be used for even the biggest N. American game as it has sufficient penetration.  I also loaded a few 325gr. FTX's which were very accurate, but over-expanded for my liking and separated jacket and core also. 

[Ranch13]

For good accuracy and velocity with managable recoil, take a look at AA 5744 data for your favored cast bullet.

[keith44]

Well, I will share my most used .45-70 loads, but I will warn you up front that I load it warm, and just deal with the recoil.  Also these loads are not recommended by anyone, for any gun.


I like 3031, about 56 grains on top of a bit of 3F Goex pushing a 350 gr cast RNFP to right around 1,900 fps.  It penetrates well, keep the alloy on the softer side and it expands pretty good too.


4064, about 54 grains, on top of a pinch of 3F capped off with a 405 grain cast flat point runs just under 1,800 fps.


Now both of these kick, both will kill anything in North America, and some African game as well.

[nebrguy]

To fill your bill for everything you want I offer you my load.  32.0 grs of IMR 4198 under a Rem. 405 gr. JSP seated just behind the " step ". This runs about 1350 FPS which is very close to original  Trapdoor/ BP ballistics and has proven to be accurate, clean burning, fairly mild on the shoulder and on several occasions a quick whitetail stopper always giving an exit hole for those short tracking jobs in thick cover. Inside chest cavity holes are usually about that of a golf ball  depending on ribs struck and at what angle.   I would not hesitate to use this on any North American animal I'd ever want to persue .

[OSOK]

+1 on Ranch 13's suggestion. I use 30 gr. of AA5744 behind Black Dawg 460 gr. cast. Has a little more kick than factory 405 gr, but not much.

[Swampman]

My favorite and most accurate load is 30 grains of IMR-4198 under a 405 grain Georgia Arms cast lead bullet.  It will shoot 1/2"@100 yards.  Almost no recoil.

[Catshooter45]

Keith44,
 
I'm curious, what is the purpose of the black powder in your loads?  And then do you clean as if it was a BP load, or smokeless?
 
 
Cat

[keith44]

I get a cleaner, more consistent burn from the 3031 and 4064 with the BP added, with less of a pressure spike than when using magnum primers.  I clean like a smokeless load, the heat of the 3031 burns out the BP residue.  I also have duplex data from many years ago that uses 50 grains of 2F and an amount of 2400 to boost speeds and reduce residue, but with that cleaning must still be treated like a BP load.

[bikerbeans]

I get a cleaner, more consistent burn from the 3031 and 4064 with the BP added, with less of a pressure spike than when using magnum primers.  I clean like a smokeless load, the heat of the 3031 burns out the BP residue.  I also have duplex data from many years ago that uses 50 grains of 2F and an amount of 2400 to boost speeds and reduce residue, but with that cleaning must still be treated like a BP load.

How is the reduced pressure spike measured?
 
BB

[jfremder]

My favorite and most accurate load is 30 grains of IMR-4198 under a 405 grain Georgia Arms cast lead bullet.  It will shoot 1/2"@100 yards.  Almost no recoil.

This has been my go to load as well, except I use a Missouri Bullet 405 gr. LFN. Cloverleafs in both of my 45/70's at 100y

[keith44]

I get a cleaner, more consistent burn from the 3031 and 4064 with the BP added, with less of a pressure spike than when using magnum primers.  I clean like a smokeless load, the heat of the 3031 burns out the BP residue.  I also have duplex data from many years ago that uses 50 grains of 2F and an amount of 2400 to boost speeds and reduce residue, but with that cleaning must still be treated like a BP load.

How is the reduced pressure spike measured?
 
BB

I must admit that here I am relying on the works of Paul Matthews and others, in that I am not directly measuring the pressure.  This is why I say that my loads are not recommended by anyone for any gun

[gendoc]

405gr rem jsp with 32grs of imr-4227 bout 1500 fps and the most, not maybe...most accurate witha lil'shove... out of all 5 45/70's we have. can you imagine 70 yrd freehand shot to tha neck while she stands there watch'n you.........

 
and on paper with 5 shots @ 50yrds.. it looks as if i missed twice.........too bad, i did'nt

[bikerbeans]

Welcome back Sgt. Schultz!
 
BB

[Catshooter45]

Thanks Keith44, interesting.
 
 
Cat

[chromdome]

     I use 300 gr hon over  44gr rx7 very mild recoil 2inches @ 100yds
                                           
                                                    bill

[smokehouserex]

 
 
  Howdy Gentlemen:
  I have a Shikari, since about 1980, haven't shot it much. I came upon this site last summer and decided to drag it back out. I had previous loads but thought they were too hot. Loaded with 50 grs.of 4320 with a 405, the lyman book showed this as too hot of a load for this rifle, it required Trapdoor Loads only. the previous loads  extropolated out to about 20,000, I pulled the 405's and dropped the load to 43 grs. of 4320, after looking at one of the Speer Reloading Books they said the Trapdoor Load was factory loaded to 28,000. I had previously shot about 15-20 rds. of the 50 gr. load,
with no pressure signs but after reading the manuals and reading some posts???
  I know that all manuals recommend starting low, the 50gr. load was 3gr. below max recommended load which was 53gr. 4320. I'm still confused about what a proper load would be.
  Just one more thing,  I think you 45-70 shooters must be a lot tougher than I am because these 1600FPS +or- 405 loads kick like a BIG MULE!!!!!!   lol
  thanks
  HM

[keith44]

Hey smokehouserex,


not tougher, thicker recoil pad, and I do not shoot it off a bench!


As for "Trapdoor loads"


Hornady says 25,000 cup, Sierra does not list the pressure, but recommends only 300 grain bullets, Speer lists 28,000 cup (and says this is factory ammo pressure level), my Lyman manual keeps loads under 20,000 cup, Accurate Powders shows 28,000 cup, Hodgdon Powders shows 28,000 cup, Alliant does not list a pressure level, IMR does not list a pressure level, Vihtavuori powders shows 28,000 cup and psi, Barnes Bullets shows 25,000.




So one 20K, two 25K, three plus factory at 28K, and three not listed.  That's all my data on Trapdoor level loads.  Since the factory ammo makers see fit to trust 28,000 cup (psi) I would not be afraid of any load at this level, or below.  The .45-70 is a very forgiving cartridge, and does not show pressure signs until grossly overloaded and stressing a Ruger #1.  Things to watch for with your rifle are excessive recoil, louder than normal report, and powder marks around the primer.

[Swampman]

A Trapdoor in good shape is very strong.  I know of one that was rechambered to 300 Winchester Magnum just to see what would happen.  It held up for several firings until the threads pulled out of the receiver.

[45/70fan]

I'll have to check my notes but seem to remember 50 gr of RL7 with a 300 gr Remmy for around 2000 fps. Can make 3 shots touch at 100 yards if I doo my part! Looks like the current Alliant chart has backed off to 47 gr.

[quickdtoo]

You might want to reconsider 2000fps 300gr hollow point 45-70 loads.

Tim

I've been shooting and reloading for my 45/70 handi for around 13 years now, and until this year used 300 gr bullets exclusively.....Hornady, Sierra HP's and Barnes semi-spitzers.  Never shot the Remingtons but understand they are similar in constuction to the others.  Loaded them as high as 2173 fps using 51.2 grs of IMR 4198(a MAX load out of the Hornady manual...start 10 % below that and be careful) and around 28 FP of recoil and as low as around 1840fps using 42.5 grs of the same powder.  Recoil was pleasant at the low end.   Remington primers always and either Winchester or Federal brass.   I"ve learned this much about them.

A.  My Handi would shot the 300's into less than an inch at 100 yds using any of the above bullets and IMR 4198.   Re7 works well also; giving you the same or higher velocities(if that's what you need) at lower pressures than most of the other powders listed.
 
B.  The barnes is designed for higher velocities and won't expand reliably at 2173 starting velocity unless it hits bones.

C.  The Hornady and and Sierra at 2173 acted like oversized 270's and blew the crap out of any deer they hit at ranges under 100 yds.  Wayyyy too much bloodshot meat.  Either bullet is designed for velocities at around 1800 fps or lower.  The original Factory loads by Winchester and Federal advertised 1880 fps but lied......velocity was around 1680 fps; and they worked perfectly at that speed.  I finally settled on the 42.5 gr of IMR 4198 at book value velocity of 1840fps and found that perfect for deer out to 125 yds; which is the farthest I"ve shot one with the 45/70.  If your one of those folks looking to walk around bragging about this great old cartridge "flattening" critters in their tracks you might be a bit disappointed; at least in my experience with the 300's.  The 23 deer I've killed with the handi using any of the above loads, only 3 fell in their tracks, and those three were spine shots.  All the others ran anywhere from 25 to 75 yds....but left a blood trail that a  blind man could follow and , in the lower velocity loads, left all the edible meat you could want.  That's why I use it; you will NOT lose the deer due to a faint spot of blood here and there.  And you get to eat the critter.  Most, to tell the truth, ran about 25-35 yds and fell within sight, except in the real heavy cover.
D.  This year I"ve switched to the 400 gr Speer Flat Nose behind 44 gr of Re7 for what is supposed to be around 1750 fps(and  a lot heaver recoil than the 300 grs).  That's not even close to a Max load, but all I need.

While this site and others are great for finding loads, a reloading manual gives you SAFE, proven data.  Don't take What I've written here as gospel..start low and safe and work up.  For the 45/70 I like either the Lyman or Hornady manuals.

[smokehouserex]

 
 
  Thanks Everone:
 
  I appreciate the suggestions each of you offered. I will stick with the lower powered loads because getting my eyes crossed every time I drop the hammer is just not as much fun as it used to be. I will probably keep the 405 at about 1450fps or so.
  I mainly wanted some clarification on the wide-spread opinions of the various loading manuals as they varied so much. This is one heck of a cartridge and is a real powerhouse even in trapdoor levels.
  Thanks again for your response,
  HM

[dlbarr]

Well, I'm new here and might act impolite at first...I assure you it's not intentional. It's just that....like I said: I'm new.

What I'm interested in knowing is what are some of your favorite BLACK POWDER loads for the 45-70 Handi? 

Thanks!

[Swampman]

There is no favorite black powder load in the .45-70.  You have no choice but to put as much powder in the case as it will hold.  Even then the velocity is vey modest.

[kevinsmith5]

Actually if you use card wads and a grease cookie the load will be less than max capacity. You can also vary the degree of compression. My best load on a 500 gr round nose with Pyrodex is actually 60 gr , a card wad (cut from shirt box material) and a grease cookie 1/16" made from half olive oil and beeswax. Cleanup and accuracy were better than with 68 gr heavily compressed Pyrodex. (These loads are by volume).

[bikerbeans]

 
 

You might want to reconsider 2000fps 300gr hollow point 45-70 loads.

Tim

C.  The Hornady and and Sierra at 2173 acted like oversized 270's and blew the crap out of any deer they hit at ranges under 100 yds.  Wayyyy too much bloodshot meat.  Either bullet is designed for velocities at around 1800 fps or lower.  The original Factory loads by Winchester and Federal advertised 1880 fps but lied......velocity was around 1680 fps; and they worked perfectly at that speed.  I finally settled on the 42.5 gr of IMR 4198 at book value velocity of 1840fps and found that perfect for deer out to 125 yds; which is the farthest I"ve shot one with the 45/70.  If your one of those folks looking to walk around bragging about this great old cartridge "flattening" critters in their tracks you might be a bit disappointed; at least in my experience with the 300's.  The 23 deer I've killed with the handi using any of the above loads, only 3 fell in their tracks, and those three were spine shots.  All the others ran anywhere from 25 to 75 yds....but left a blood trail that a  blind man could follow and , in the lower velocity loads, left all the edible meat you could want.  That's why I use it; you will NOT lose the deer due to a faint spot of blood here and there.  And you get to eat the critter.  Most, to tell the truth, ran about 25-35 yds and fell within sight, except in the real heavy cover.

Good thing I only shoot the 300 grain Sierras at targets with my 45-120 at 2600+FPS.     They do make a nice explosion in the berm behind my target, kinda reminds me of the US Navy shelling a pacific island in WWII.      
 
BB
 
BB

[AtlLaw]

Good thing I only shoot the 300 grain Sierras at targets with my 45-120 at 2600+FPS.

 
 
Sorry...     You'ld have to have a 45-120 to understand... 
 
As I remember, a 405 @ 2K is Ol'Beans' cat sneeze load...