Author Topic: New 308 Winchester. (Read 2110 times)

Bearwolf31 · « **on:** January 17, 2004, 09:53:59 AM »

I am in the market for a new rifle in 308 winchester and have kinda narrowed my "hunt" down to the following 3 rifles and I'm looking for some feedback on these 3.

Remington 700 ADL synthetic

Savage 11FNS Synthetic w/ Accutrigger

Howa 1500 Lightning synthetic

I currently have a rem 700bdl in 270 win and it has worked fine just a little too fancy for a bang around hog blasting gun. :grin:

grouper sandwich · « **Reply #1 on:** January 17, 2004, 10:11:19 AM »

I'm also in the hunt for a new rifle, 22-250, and have had the opportunity to handle all of the rifles listed except for the Howa. Go ahead and scratch the 700 ADL off of your list. It was by far the cheapest feeling and sloppiest of the ones that I messed with. The Savage will give awsome accuracy and actually felt pretty decent. I did handle a Weatherby Vanguard and it felt nice. From what I've read, a Vanguard and a Howa are essentially the same rifle. One other that I handled, that you don't have listed, was a Tikka T3 Hunter. It's in the same price range as the others and felt butter smooth and fit like a glove. Wally World can order them for $408 for a T3 Lite synthetic and $459 a Hunter walnut. Good luck, hope this helps.

Bearwolf31 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 17, 2004, 10:26:27 AM »

Granted the syn stock on the 700adl is cheap and "springy" feeling, I think I still prefer the 700 action. The howa and weatherby vanguard I fiddled with at a gunshow sure seemed to have a looser action when working the bolt. I like the price difference between the howa1500 and the rem 700 though. I would pretty much not think about a Savage rifle except the new accutrigger is changing my mindset about them.

Lawdog · « **Reply #3 on:** January 17, 2004, 11:57:17 AM »

Bearwolf31,

Of the three rifles you stated I would go with the Savage. Reason is simple. At this moment Savage is about the most accurate out of the box rifle going today. No, I don't own one YET. But I intend to very soon just haven't decided which WSM cartridge to get. I have never fired a Howa so I have no comment on them. Remington is another matter. I wouldn't choose a Remington due to their total lack of customer service. Lawdog

Bearwolf31 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 17, 2004, 02:10:13 PM »

Another thing I just noticed, is the difference in rate of twist of the rifling between the savage 11 (1 in 10") and the howa 1500 lightning (1 in 12"). What difference will this make if any other than maybe allowing the savage to stabilize heavier bullets? I will most likely shoot 150 grain bt's.

Eagle Eye · « **Reply #5 on:** January 19, 2004, 05:11:34 AM »

No one has mentioned how ugly the Savage rifle is. So I will. :lol:

grouper sandwich · « **Reply #6 on:** January 19, 2004, 05:27:43 AM »

Pretty don't put venison in the freezer. :wink:

Eagle Eye · « **Reply #7 on:** January 19, 2004, 05:31:19 AM »

Yeah but any hunting rifle made these days will shoot one MOA and realistically, two MOA is all one needs to put venison in the freezer. Besides, I have to like the look and feel of a rifle and everytime I handle a Savage, I am reminded of my days building the rec room....ie holding 2x4's. :wink:

Zachary · « **Reply #8 on:** January 19, 2004, 05:51:18 AM »

There is no denying the great accuracy of the Savage. Then again, the M700s are also WELL KNOWN for their accuracy.

The thing is that I personally feel that the Savages have a very sloppy action. To me the quality is not there. Granted, the quality of Remington is not as good as it used to be, but they are better than Savages.

I recommend the Remingtons.

Zachary

Eagle Eye · « **Reply #9 on:** January 19, 2004, 05:56:27 AM »

Zach....I couldn't agree more. And as for Remington quaility, the stuff coming out now is as good as I have ever seen in 30+ years. They had some problems a few years ago when they opened the new plant but they seem to be doing good work now.

Bearwolf31 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 19, 2004, 07:11:26 AM »

I think I have pretty much narrowed it down to either the savage 11fns or the howa1500 lightning. Both seem hard to beat for the price, maybe I will prove myself wrong. I did notice that remington has a "2 yr limited warranty" on their stuff if they would decide to follow through with it according to others on the board. I'm not sure how much "howa" stands behind their products as I have never dealt with them.

Bearwolf31 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 19, 2004, 07:17:08 AM »

Zachary:

Speaking of remington, I am wondering what the recoil of the 308 in a 700 adl with synthetic stock would be like compared to the rem 700bdl walnut stocked 270 win. that I have. I want something I can take after hogs with but not kick like a stubborn mule. The 270 doesnt bother me, but the gun is on the heavy side to me.

razmuz · « **Reply #12 on:** January 19, 2004, 09:53:43 AM »

"If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life you gotta take an ugly women for your wife." GET THE REMINGTON. :grin:

azshooter · « **Reply #13 on:** January 19, 2004, 10:30:46 AM »

Quote from: Eagle Eye

No one has mentioned how ugly the Savage rifle is. So I will. :lol:

Considering we are not talking fine polished Walnut stocks, it is hard to call any of them pretty. The real beauty is in how well it shoots and with the Savage, you will be done with the mods as soon as you remove it from the box. The Remington and Howa may both require a trigger job.

Lawdog · « **Reply #14 on:** January 19, 2004, 10:43:25 AM »

Bearwolf31,

What is ugly is in the eyes of the beholder. Anything that is that accurate isn't all that ugly. Considering the price of firearms today a person also needs to take into account the warrantee and even more important how well the company stands behind their product. I know nothing about how well Howa stands behind their weapons but I have heard good things about Savage Customer Service. I know that in the past(14 years ago) Savage did alright by me over a problem with a M99 I have. I know of one of our gun club members that had a problem last year with a synthetic stock on a model 111 he bought. Savage paid for the shipping both ways, replaced the stock and had the rifle back in his hands within 10 days. Also included a coupon for $20.00 toward ammunition. To me that is service and that is what counts. Also you may want to take into account that Savage won the Manufacture Of The Year award along with the Rifle Of The Year award for their Model 12VBSS, both awards for 2003. Go with the Savage I know I am. Lawdog

Eagle Eye · « **Reply #15 on:** January 19, 2004, 12:33:41 PM »

You ar eright, looks are a subjective issue. Perhaps Savage is that good with service. I never want to find out...too ugly! But then, I have never had an issue with Remington either and that is after more than 30 rifles. I have had problems with Borwning, Weatherby and Winchester....which is why I don't buy them.

Bearwolf31 · « **Reply #16 on:** January 19, 2004, 12:50:25 PM »

Looks arent everything to me as far as guns go, I already have the shiny fancy bdl, thats the main reason why im seeking a new rifle that I won't cringe when it gets banged around out in a rice field blasting hogs. :eek:

On another note, I had a chance to check out a 700adl in 243 today and I figure the 308 will be about the same size and weight, which is too short and way too light for my taste. They only have the "old style trigger" savage rifles in stock which arent much to my liking. So I am set on a stainless steel version of the howa 1500 lightning. Anyone know about their triggers by chance?? Are they easily adjustable as the rem 700 bdl was?

:grin:

HHI #4694 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 19, 2004, 05:30:46 PM »

I would take the Remington 700 over any Savage ever made. Accuracy is just one tiny facet that makes up a proper hunting rifle. If I had my choice, I would take a Winchester model 70 over both of them. It is simply a superior design for big game hunting. Remington quality is still having a few problems. I examined three 700 Titaniums this past weekend. Two were flawless, but one had poorly cut jagged feed rails. I pointed this out to the dealer and he was shocked! It literally looked like a serrated knife. Not very confidence inspiring on Remington's top shelf flagship rifle. Bottom line is that all the big makers let a junker slip through once in a while. :oops:

Zachary · « **Reply #18 on:** January 20, 2004, 04:21:33 AM »

Quote from: Bearwolf31

Zachary:

Speaking of remington, I am wondering what the recoil of the 308 in a 700 adl with synthetic stock would be like compared to the rem 700bdl walnut stocked 270 win. that I have. I want something I can take after hogs with but not kick like a stubborn mule. The 270 doesnt bother me, but the gun is on the heavy side to me.

It kinda depends on the bullet weights that you use. The .270 holds a bit more powder than the short action 308, but the .270 also generally uses lighter bullets. As such, a .308 with 180 grain bullets probably kicks a little bit more than a .270 with 130 or even 150 grain bullets.

As for the differences in stocks, I believe that synthetic stocks absorb more of the recoil. Others believe the opposite - that wood stocks absorb more than synthetic stocks. Go figure.

Bottom line is that recoil with a .308, either with a wood stock or synthetic stock, is not, or at least should not, be a problem for you. Plus, I would, and do, recommend the .308 for hogs over the .270 any day. With hogs, although a .277 caliber bullet certainly works, a .308 bullet will create a bit more damage and thus a larger hole - which is nice to have because hogs have so much fat, that it seems that the fat seals up the hole and thus does not leave an as large blood trail.

Zachary

Eagle Eye · « **Reply #19 on:** January 20, 2004, 05:02:49 AM »

It always amazes me how lucky I must be.

I read stories about Remington rifles not shooting well but the ones I have owned always were shooters. Near as I can recall, I have owned over 30 through 34 years of firearm onwership and I have never had one that would not shoot at least one MOA. Some much better.

Just yesterday I took my 25-06 Remongton Mtn Rifle to the range to test some 100 grain Nosler Partitions. I got .7 MOA with three shots. Lucky I guess. :wink:

Zachary · « **Reply #20 on:** January 20, 2004, 05:37:54 AM »

I don't think that you are lucky....I think that MOA or sub-MOA is the norm with Remington 700s.

Yea, I too hear of horror stories every once and a while regarding remingtons, but, like you, every single one of my Remington 700 bolt guns(and that's about 12 or so) have been real tack-drivers!

Zachary

bilesteve · « **Reply #21 on:** January 20, 2004, 07:24:13 AM »

Certainly I am no expert compared to most of these posters, but I did buy a new Savage 114W in .243 for $350 at a gun show a month back. This model was a special issue I am told, something like a scaled-down 114 Ultra and I have seen them available in .308.

Whatever, I shot a 3/4" group my very first group after getting something akin to a zero.This was with a stock trigger and the gun not broken in.

In terms of beauty, this rifle is pretty good looking. Nice tiger-stripped wood in the butt and a semi-glossy finish. I like it.

Bearwolf31 · « **Reply #22 on:** January 20, 2004, 09:02:05 AM »

I'm thinking I will reload and shoot the 150gr core-lokt's or possibly the 150gr nosler bt's as I have had good luck with the 130gr nosler bt's in my 270. I dont really foresee me shooting anything larger than the 165gr bullets, more than likely I will just stick with the 150's.

The 700adl would probably be a good gun but im more sold on the stainless Howa 1500 synthetic, at least out in hog territory.

thanks for the feedback.

:grin:

Zachary · « **Reply #23 on:** January 20, 2004, 09:27:30 AM »

You can certainly use 150s on hogs, but on larger hogs, I would use at least 165s, and, better yet, 180s. Still, even with 150s, 165s, or 180s, I would use PREMIUM bullets on hogs, like - Barnes X, Trophy Bonded, Nosler Partition (not ballistic tip), etc.

Now, on whitetail deer, you really don't need anything more than 165s, and even 150s will work well.

Zachary

Bear Wallow · « **Reply #24 on:** February 13, 2004, 07:04:17 AM »

Get a Winchester 70 Classic or Featherweight and be done with it. Go all the way and get a Sako or K :eek: imber.

Bearwolf31 · « **Reply #25 on:** February 13, 2004, 08:05:30 AM »

I stuck with the 308 howa lightning stainless and put one on layaway a couple weeks ago. Just waiting for it to show up one of these days, as they have been on backorder since November.

stork · « **Reply #26 on:** February 13, 2004, 04:42:12 PM »

I think you made a good decision, but I feel a Savage would have been a better rifle.

Rummer · « **Reply #27 on:** February 17, 2004, 07:48:54 AM »

I just parted with a 700 ADL Synthetic in .308. Love the .308 hated that rifle. Remington's quality control with their budget rifles isn't great. As a result buying one rifle may come off the production line is a crapshoot. You could get a good one or a bad one. I got one with a long throat. If I seated the bullets so that they function thru the action they had to jump a little overa tenth of an inch to engage the rifling. I just couldn't get that rifle to shoot.

Add to that the fact that the unpolished action on the Synthetic always fely really rough to me.

Now I am the only guy I know who bought one and didn't like it. I will say that this didn't sour me on remingtons, but the ADL's in general and the synthetic in particular are chincy and I wouldn't by another.

John

Lawdog · « **Reply #28 on:** February 17, 2004, 01:04:59 PM »

Rummer,

Don't feel bad about your experience with that 700 ADL. I had the same thing happen with a 700 BDL in .308. The best group it ever fired was just barely under 4 inches(3.97", 3 shot @ 100 yards.). Remington told me that was within company specifications. Remington finally took it back(10 months later) after I had to have my lawyer write them a couple of letters. Lawdog

like2shoot · « **Reply #29 on:** February 17, 2004, 03:17:22 PM »

I have seveal ADL synthetics. One, a 243 shoots poorly. All the rest are fine. I also had trouble with a Ruger SS mk2 . Had to send that one back, got a new gun . I think a bad one slips past everyone once in a while.