I will NOT vote for Ron Paul unless it is against Obamination!

[ironglow]

      Every so often we hear folks here in speaking of the conservative candidates..
       " I'll vote for John Doe but I won't vote for Bill Smith" !       
   Experience tells us that just about a year from now, it will be one of those conservatives..or Barack Hussein Obama; NO OTHER CHOICES!
 
  If you like John Doe..it is his job right now, to convince the voting public that HE is the best choice !  John Doe is not being cheated, the nomination is his/hers to win or lose right now !  That goes for each of those candidates we saw on stage last night !
     
    For a conservative to observe this whole process, where each gets their shot to impress the voting public, and then if  'their guy' doesn't get chosen...to go into a pout, and let the loser-in-chief take the reins again, ..doesn't speak well for any 'conservative'.   May even put a question mark on their conservative credentials !
     
    I do not have a prohibitive favorite..all have some good ideas, all have some warts; but unlike the opposition they aren't so full of warts as to be mistaken for a toad.
     
    Ron Paul has some good ideas domestically, but his followers are not helping as I see it.  They have taken on a group persona which is almost cultic. Remembering David Koresh & Jim Jones...sometimes Paul's followers seem bent on creating a secular version.
     
   May or may not be true..but the almost robotic devotion to 'the cause', sometimes seems to go beyond reason.. and I would think has a chilling reaction among some potential supporters, it does with me.
 
  Newt Gingerich probably made the most sensible statement of last night's debate when he said in effect...
     "Anybody around this table would be far superior to what we have in the White House now" !  Truth be known, undoubtedly Newt has the sharpest mind of the bunch; although this is not the only qualification necessary.
   Newt has been comporting himself admirably though..not taking 'cheap shots' at other conservatives..

[BUGEYE]

nw said



I'm sorry! My mistake............I should have said American Sheeple I didn't name anyone on the forum as sheeple.

uh, you are implying by your posts that people who don't worship at the feet of ron paul are sheeple to be led to slaughter.

if I say that ron paul supporters are lemmings being lured off the cliff, the only thing that saves me from an accusation of flaming is your sheeple remark.
Truce ?  I won't call RP people lemmings if you'll drop the sheeple label.

You have a right to your opinion. So do I! I was speaking in general of people who are duped by the mainstream media as sheeple. I don't believe in worshiping at the feet of anyone earthly.

I use Sheeple as an example of following blindly.............If you want to use lemmings, I'm not bothered by it. 

okay, thats fair...  I hope that the RP lemmings were not too embarassed by his poor performance last night.   what's the story about the eyebrow ?  cancer treatment ?  if so, he needs to be open about it.

[magooch]

Ron Paul might be best as Secretary of the Treasury, but his chance of becoming President is remote at best.  Sadly, this forum and a few more like it are not representative of the American electorate.  Just look what 53% of American voters chose last time around.  And look what made it through the primaries as opposition to the scourge we are saddled with.
 
I hate to say it, but we will be damned lucky to rid ourselves of the commie at all and if it is whoever makes it through the primaries, then we should count ourselves extremely fortunate.  Anyone who sat at that table last night would be a thousand times better than this horrible nightmare we're in right now.

[Ranch13]

I for one cannot understand this cult like following of Ron Paul. As long as he's been around Washington, and as many times as he's ran for president either as the liberatarion candidate or on the republican ticket or both and have never made much of a showing at either, would seem to indicate just what the bulk of the voters think of him.
 This nonsense of him winning these phone in polls is simply a farse, anybody that's been around politics know those votes are cast by prepaid cell phones in various campaign committee offices around the country.
 My son got wound into the Paul cult in 08, afterwards he was completely flammboozled, that all the people that voted in the phone in and straw poll things, yet when they got to the ballot box they got fewer votes than they had yard signs out in the district he lives in.
 If Ron Paul in his thirty years in congress has ever authored , sponsored and got a bill to the presidents desk for signing, I'm not aware of it. So the question becomes other than somebody that  portrays the part of a trouble maker for what ever party is in control, just what exactly has he accomplished in the 30 years of making a living off the tax payers dollars?

[nw_hunter]

I for one cannot understand this cult like following of Ron Paul. As long as he's been around Washington, and as many times as he's ran for president either as the liberatarion candidate or on the republican ticket or both and have never made much of a showing at either, would seem to indicate just what the bulk of the voters think of him.
 This nonsense of him winning these phone in polls is simply a farse, anybody that's been around politics know those votes are cast by prepaid cell phones in various campaign committee offices around the country.
 My son got wound into the Paul cult in 08, afterwards he was completely flammboozled, that all the people that voted in the phone in and straw poll things, yet when they got to the ballot box they got fewer votes than they had yard signs out in the district he lives in.
 If Ron Paul in his thirty years in congress has ever authored , sponsored and got a bill to the presidents desk for signing, I'm not aware of it. So the question becomes other than somebody that  portrays the part of a trouble maker for what ever party is in control, just what exactly has he accomplished in the 30 years of making a living off the tax payers dollars?

The word cult in current popular usage usually refers to a group whose beliefs or practices are considered abnormal or bizarre.^[1] The word originally denoted a system of ritual practices. The word was first used in the early 17th century denoting homage paid to a divinity and derived from French culte or Latin cultus ‘worship,’ from cult- ‘inhabited, cultivated, worshiped,’ from the verb colere 'care, cultivation'.[citation needed]

"IMO" The word Cult applies more to the Mainstream Republicans and Democrats. People blindly follow them (Sheeple) and only vote for one or the other. (Ritual Practice) Most all know that Paul is a Republican that has strong Libertarian beliefs. The Cult like worship of these Media favorites (Neocons and Socialists is (Cultivated) They have been programed to believe any member of their party "Even the sorriest of the lot" is better than the best on the other side. (The old lesser Of Two Evils) Actually we should know that evil is evil! There is NO lesser!

Look at the sensible bills RP has sponsored over the years.The reason they don't go anywhere should be obvious! RP believes in the Constitution and practices it.Most in Washington DC do not.

GW didn't and Barack Obama doesn't, and we know Billy Jeff dang sure didn't.

[Ranch13]

 Maybe occult would of been a better choice?
 
 Either way Paul has been around a long long time and  besides his handful of fanatical followers has nothing to show for it.
 

[saddlebum]

Maybe occult would of been a better choice?
 
 Either way Paul has been around a long long time and  besides his handful of fanatical followers has nothing to show for it.

Paulistinians works for me. It's more specific.
There are some who are not so fanatical.....But not many.

[Ranch13]

  roflmao

[nw_hunter]

 My son got wound into the Paul cult in 08, afterwards he was completely flammboozled, that all the people that voted in the phone in and straw poll things, yet when they got to the ballot box they got fewer votes than they had yard signs out in the district he lives in.
 If Ron Paul in his thirty years in congress has ever authored , sponsored and got a bill to the presidents desk for signing, I'm not aware of it. So the question becomes other than somebody that  portrays the part of a trouble maker for what ever party is in control, just what exactly has he accomplished in the 30 years of making a living off the tax payers dollars?

I would have been very proud of my son!You mention the Bill's Paul has introduced or co-sponsored! and call him a trouble maker. and ask what he has accomplished making a living off the Tax Payer. Here are just a few of his Bill's presented.


HR1146 Stops participation in UN
He wanted to withdraw from the WTO
HJ Resolution 46 To stop birthright citizenship to children of non Americans
Police Security Protection Act. H.R. 3304, 2007-08-01, originally H.R. 1410, 1997-04-23 (Law Officer's Armor Vest Tax Credit Act of 1997). Creates tax credit for law enforcement officers who purchase armor vests.
Anti-Terrorism Act of 2007. H.R. 3305, 2007-08-01, originally H.R. 2896, 2001-09-14. Proposed immediately after the September 11, 2001, attacks, permits pilots and navigators of aircraft, and law enforcement personnel detailed to aircraft, to carry firearms.

Abolition of income tax: H.J.Res. 23, 2007-02-07. Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States relative to abolishing personal income, estate, and gift taxes and prohibiting the United States Government from engaging in business in competition with its citizens. Repeals the Sixteenth Amendment, income tax, estate tax, and gift tax, and limits the government only to Constitutionally authorized enterprises.

Affordable Gas Price Act. H.R. 2415, 2007-05-21, originally H.R. 4004, 2005-10-06. To reduce the price of gasoline by allowing for offshore drilling, eliminating Federal obstacles to constructing refineries and providing incentives for investment in refineries, suspending Federal fuel taxes when gasoline prices reach a benchmark amount, and promoting free trade.


Make No Cents Until It Makes Sense Act. H.R. 4127, 2007-11-08. To amend title 31, United States Code, to prohibit the further minting of 1-cent coins until the Secretary of the Treasury and the Chairman of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System certify in writing that there is not a surplus of 1-cent coins already available for use in transactions, and for other purposes. The U.S. Mint currently spends $.014, which is more than the face value, for each copper-clad zinc U.S. cent it produces.[31] Paul joked, "We can't even afford a zinc standard anymore.


Social Security

    Social Security earnings limit repeal (cosponsor): Repealed the earnings limitation on Social Security. Seniors now continue working after retirement without being penalized.
    Social Security Beneficiary Tax Reduction Act. H.R. 161, 2009-01-06, originally H.R. 2723, 1997-10-23. Repeals the 1993 increase in taxes on Social Security benefits.
    Social Security Preservation Act of 2009. H.R. 219, 2009-01-06, originally H.R. 219, 1999-01-06, cosponsored since H.R. 857, 1997-02-27. Invests the Social Security surplus "trust funds" in marketable interest-bearing obligations and certificates of deposit, essentially insuring the integrity of the surplus.[2]
    Senior Citizens Tax Elimination Act. H.R. 162, 2009-01-06, originally H.R. 4790, 2002-05-22, cosponsored since H.R. 761, 1999-02-12. Makes Social Security and Railroad Retirement Board payments nontaxable.
    Social Security for Americans Only Act of 2009. H.R. 160, 2009-01-06, originally H.R. 489, 2003-01-29. Limits Social Security benefits to U.S. citizens and nationals.

Religious Freedom Amendment. H.J.Res. 78, 1997-05-08 (cosponsor). Clarifies the "right to acknowledge God according to the dictates of conscience" to include the right of prayer in public schools and other public property, and to prohibit state establishment of religion or requirements to participate in prayer.



Freedom of association

    National ID (amendment): Prohibited funding for national identification numbers.[2]
    Identity Theft Prevention Act of 2009. H.R. 220, 2009-01-06, originally H.R. 220, 1999-01-06 (Freedom and Privacy Restoration Act). Protects Social Security number confidentiality, prohibits uniform national identifying numbers, and prohibits imposition of federal identification standards.
    TV Consumer Freedom Act. H.R. 3602, 2007-09-19, originally H.R. 1078, 1999-03-11. Requires consent for signal retransmission, eliminates must-carry requirements, terminates Federal Communications Commission (FCC) mandates for television features and functions, and clarifies retransmission rights of satellite carriers.
    Freedom to Bank Act. H.R. 1419, 2009-03-10, originally H.R. 6297, 2006-09-29. Ends laws and regulations which deny decision-making opportunities and communication control to bank account holders. States in its long title that such laws "treat the American people like children".

Here he is on the right to keep and bear arms

    Second Amendment Protection Act of 2007. H.R. 1096, 2007-02-15 Defends law-abiding citizens' Second Amendment rights to own firearms.
    National Park Second Amendment Restoration and Personal Protection Act of 2007. H.R. 1897, 2007-04-17. Prohibits firearm regulation within the National Park System. Based on 2006 legislation by Senator George Allen.
    Citizens Protection Act of 2007. H.R. 2424, 2007-05-22. Repeals the Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990 as amended.

This is just a small list of the issues RP has addressed. If these sound like the ideas of a kook, or someone that has done nothing for the taxpayer in his time in office, then fine and dandy, because your mind is made up and those of us that believe he is the one for the office, can never hope to change your mind with facts.

[ironglow]

I for one cannot understand this cult like following of Ron Paul. As long as he's been around Washington, and as many times as he's ran for president either as the liberatarion candidate or on the republican ticket or both and have never made much of a showing at either, would seem to indicate just what the bulk of the voters think of him.
 This nonsense of him winning these phone in polls is simply a farse, anybody that's been around politics know those votes are cast by prepaid cell phones in various campaign committee offices around the country.
 My son got wound into the Paul cult in 08, afterwards he was completely flammboozled, that all the people that voted in the phone in and straw poll things, yet when they got to the ballot box they got fewer votes than they had yard signs out in the district he lives in.
 If Ron Paul in his thirty years in congress has ever authored , sponsored and got a bill to the presidents desk for signing, I'm not aware of it. So the question becomes other than somebody that  portrays the part of a trouble maker for what ever party is in control, just what exactly has he accomplished in the 30 years of making a living off the tax payers dollars?

The word cult in current popular usage usually refers to a group whose beliefs or practices are considered abnormal or bizarre.^[1] The word originally denoted a system of ritual practices. The word was first used in the early 17th century denoting homage paid to a divinity and derived from French culte or Latin cultus ‘worship,’ from cult- ‘inhabited, cultivated, worshiped,’ from the verb colere 'care, cultivation'.[citation needed]

"IMO" The word Cult applies more to the Mainstream Republicans and Democrats. People blindly follow them (Sheeple) and only vote for one or the other. (Ritual Practice) Most all know that Paul is a Republican that has strong Libertarian beliefs. The Cult like worship of these Media favorites (Neocons and Socialists is (Cultivated) They have been programed to believe any member of their party "Even the sorriest of the lot" is better than the best on the other side. (The old lesser Of Two Evils) Actually we should know that evil is evil! There is NO lesser!

Look at the sensible bills RP has sponsored over the years.The reason they don't go anywhere should be obvious! RP believes in the Constitution and practices it.Most in Washington DC do not.

GW didn't and Barack Obama doesn't, and we know Billy Jeff dang sure didn't.

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
   A bit of correction is due here..  this unusually enthusiastic following of Ron Paul, apparently to the exclusion of other libertarian, Republican or conservative candidates is indeed "different".  Read back though, nobody said it was a cult.. but rather "almost cultic' or 'cult like following'.  That is cult like, in the sense of the exclusive following of one person  to the exclusion of any others, or any other people's ideas.  Remember Koresh, Jim Jones, Micheal Jackson,  or more recently..Warren Jeffs and Lady Gaga.
   One can complain of the "lesser of two evils" cliche; but indeed, how many times must it be repeated... "there was only 1 truly perfect man wo ever walked this earth"!!
      So when November 12012 rolls around, the real choice will be for the better of the two contenders left standing !  If we refuse to vote for the better one, we are in effect..defacto..voting in the worst one...
 
  Have you stopped to think..when you accuse others of voting for the "lesser of two evils"..you are accusing them of voting for a 'less than perfect' person ?   ...And by inference..saying the candidate of YOUR choice is perfect !
   Isn't that a bit of arrogance ?
   
     Among the current conservative candidates, I doubt that respect for the constitution is a philosophy held exclusivey by Ron Paul.. 

[Ranch13]

 I'm starting to believe that Paul has replaced Pat Paulson....
 Now if it came to the choice between Paul and Obama, then I'ld surely hold my nose and vote for Paul. But that is the only way I'll ever vote for Paul for anything.

[nw_hunter]

I for one cannot understand this cult like following of Ron Paul. As long as he's been around Washington, and as many times as he's ran for president either as the liberatarion candidate or on the republican ticket or both and have never made much of a showing at either, would seem to indicate just what the bulk of the voters think of him.
 This nonsense of him winning these phone in polls is simply a farse, anybody that's been around politics know those votes are cast by prepaid cell phones in various campaign committee offices around the country.
 My son got wound into the Paul cult in 08, afterwards he was completely flammboozled, that all the people that voted in the phone in and straw poll things, yet when they got to the ballot box they got fewer votes than they had yard signs out in the district he lives in.
 If Ron Paul in his thirty years in congress has ever authored , sponsored and got a bill to the presidents desk for signing, I'm not aware of it. So the question becomes other than somebody that  portrays the part of a trouble maker for what ever party is in control, just what exactly has he accomplished in the 30 years of making a living off the tax payers dollars?

The word cult in current popular usage usually refers to a group whose beliefs or practices are considered abnormal or bizarre.^[1] The word originally denoted a system of ritual practices. The word was first used in the early 17th century denoting homage paid to a divinity and derived from French culte or Latin cultus ‘worship,’ from cult- ‘inhabited, cultivated, worshiped,’ from the verb colere 'care, cultivation'.[citation needed]

"IMO" The word Cult applies more to the Mainstream Republicans and Democrats. People blindly follow them (Sheeple) and only vote for one or the other. (Ritual Practice) Most all know that Paul is a Republican that has strong Libertarian beliefs. The Cult like worship of these Media favorites (Neocons and Socialists is (Cultivated) They have been programed to believe any member of their party "Even the sorriest of the lot" is better than the best on the other side. (The old lesser Of Two Evils) Actually we should know that evil is evil! There is NO lesser!

Look at the sensible bills RP has sponsored over the years.The reason they don't go anywhere should be obvious! RP believes in the Constitution and practices it.Most in Washington DC do not.

GW didn't and Barack Obama doesn't, and we know Billy Jeff dang sure didn't.

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
   A bit of correction is due here..  this unusually enthusiastic following of Ron Paul, apparently to the exclusion of other libertarian, Republican or conservative candidates is indeed "different".  Read back though, nobody said it was a cult.. but rather "almost cultic' or 'cult like following'.  That is cult like, in the sense of the exclusive following of one person  to the exclusion of any others, or any other people's ideas.  Remember Koresh, Jim Jones, Micheal Jackson,  or more recently..Warren Jeffs and Lady Gaga.
   One can complain of the "lesser of two evils" cliche; but indeed, how many times must it be repeated... "there was only 1 truly perfect man wo ever walked this earth"!!
      So when November 12012 rolls around, the real choice will be for the better of the two contenders left standing !  If we refuse to vote for the better one, we are in effect..defacto..voting in the worst one...
 
  Have you stopped to think..when you accuse others of voting for the "lesser of two evils"..you are accusing them of voting for a 'less than perfect' person ?   ...And by inference..saying the candidate of YOUR choice is perfect !
   Isn't that a bit of arrogance ?
   
     Among the current conservative candidates, I doubt that respect for the constitution is a philosophy held exclusivey by Ron Paul..

I would say it would be the epitome of arrogance saying Ron Paul or any Man is perfect.But I never said he was perfect. He is head and shoulders above the other candidates " IMO" when it comes to integrity,morality, common sense and other attributes that would qualify him for the office of the Presidency. . " IN MY OPINION" SOME apparently differ. I do think he as politician who is not perfect, comes closer to following the Constitution than any other in DC.

Someone mentioned Pat Paulson.........If old Pat is still alive I think he and Paul would probably make a good team. Heck! Abbot and Costello would be a better team than most on the ticket.

[SwampThing762]

I for one cannot understand this cult like following of Ron Paul. As long as he's been around Washington, and as many times as he's ran for president either as the liberatarion candidate or on the republican ticket or both and have never made much of a showing at either, would seem to indicate just what the bulk of the voters think of him.
 This nonsense of him winning these phone in polls is simply a farse, anybody that's been around politics know those votes are cast by prepaid cell phones in various campaign committee offices around the country.
 My son got wound into the Paul cult in 08, afterwards he was completely flammboozled, that all the people that voted in the phone in and straw poll things, yet when they got to the ballot box they got fewer votes than they had yard signs out in the district he lives in.
 If Ron Paul in his thirty years in congress has ever authored , sponsored and got a bill to the presidents desk for signing, I'm not aware of it. So the question becomes other than somebody that  portrays the part of a trouble maker for what ever party is in control, just what exactly has he accomplished in the 30 years of making a living off the tax payers dollars?

The word cult in current popular usage usually refers to a group whose beliefs or practices are considered abnormal or bizarre.^[1] The word originally denoted a system of ritual practices. The word was first used in the early 17th century denoting homage paid to a divinity and derived from French culte or Latin cultus ‘worship,’ from cult- ‘inhabited, cultivated, worshiped,’ from the verb colere 'care, cultivation'.[citation needed]

"IMO" The word Cult applies more to the Mainstream Republicans and Democrats. People blindly follow them (Sheeple) and only vote for one or the other. (Ritual Practice) Most all know that Paul is a Republican that has strong Libertarian beliefs. The Cult like worship of these Media favorites (Neocons and Socialists is (Cultivated) They have been programed to believe any member of their party "Even the sorriest of the lot" is better than the best on the other side. (The old lesser Of Two Evils) Actually we should know that evil is evil! There is NO lesser!

Look at the sensible bills RP has sponsored over the years.The reason they don't go anywhere should be obvious! RP believes in the Constitution and practices it.Most in Washington DC do not.

GW didn't and Barack Obama doesn't, and we know Billy Jeff dang sure didn't.

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
   A bit of correction is due here..  this unusually enthusiastic following of Ron Paul, apparently to the exclusion of other libertarian, Republican or conservative candidates is indeed "different".  Read back though, nobody said it was a cult.. but rather "almost cultic' or 'cult like following'.  That is cult like, in the sense of the exclusive following of one person  to the exclusion of any others, or any other people's ideas.  Remember Koresh, Jim Jones, Micheal Jackson,  or more recently..Warren Jeffs and Lady Gaga.
   One can complain of the "lesser of two evils" cliche; but indeed, how many times must it be repeated... "there was only 1 truly perfect man wo ever walked this earth"!!
      So when November 12012 rolls around, the real choice will be for the better of the two contenders left standing !  If we refuse to vote for the better one, we are in effect..defacto..voting in the worst one...
 
  Have you stopped to think..when you accuse others of voting for the "lesser of two evils"..you are accusing them of voting for a 'less than perfect' person ?   ...And by inference..saying the candidate of YOUR choice is perfect !
   Isn't that a bit of arrogance ?
   
     Among the current conservative candidates, I doubt that respect for the constitution is a philosophy held exclusivey by Ron Paul..

I would say it would be the epitome of arrogance saying Ron Paul or any Man is perfect.But I never said he was perfect. He is head and shoulders above the other candidates " IMO" when it comes to integrity,morality, common sense and other attributes that would qualify him for the office of the Presidency. . " IN MY OPINION" SOME apparently differ. I do think he as politician who is not perfect, comes closer to following the Constitution than any other in DC.

Someone mentioned Pat Paulson.........If old Pat is still alive I think he and Paul would probably make a good team. Heck! Abbot and Costello would be a better team than most on the ticket.

I do agree with you in that Paul is likely the only true strict constructionist in the GOP field at this time.   However, he does not have the support base to face and defeat the Obamination.  However, I would like to see him urge his supporters to rally around the American Flag and support the GOP nominee against the Obamination, who wants to replace Old Glory with a red hammer and sickle.

Any ticket would be better than Obama and Biden.  Beavis and Butt-Head is a better presidential election ticket than Obama/Biden.

ST762

[Casull]

I would have been very proud of my son!You mention the Bill's Paul has introduced or co-sponsored! and call him a trouble maker. and ask what he has accomplished making a living off the Tax Payer. Here are just a few of his Bill's presented.


HR1146 Stops participation in UN
He wanted to withdraw from the WTO
HJ Resolution 46 To stop birthright citizenship to children of non Americans
Police Security Protection Act. H.R. 3304, 2007-08-01, originally H.R. 1410, 1997-04-23 (Law Officer's Armor Vest Tax Credit Act of 1997). Creates tax credit for law enforcement officers who purchase armor vests.
Anti-Terrorism Act of 2007. H.R. 3305, 2007-08-01, originally H.R. 2896, 2001-09-14. Proposed immediately after the September 11, 2001, attacks, permits pilots and navigators of aircraft, and law enforcement personnel detailed to aircraft, to carry firearms.

Abolition of income tax: H.J.Res. 23, 2007-02-07. Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States relative to abolishing personal income, estate, and gift taxes and prohibiting the United States Government from engaging in business in competition with its citizens. Repeals the Sixteenth Amendment, income tax, estate tax, and gift tax, and limits the government only to Constitutionally authorized enterprises.

Affordable Gas Price Act. H.R. 2415, 2007-05-21, originally H.R. 4004, 2005-10-06. To reduce the price of gasoline by allowing for offshore drilling, eliminating Federal obstacles to constructing refineries and providing incentives for investment in refineries, suspending Federal fuel taxes when gasoline prices reach a benchmark amount, and promoting free trade.


Make No Cents Until It Makes Sense Act. H.R. 4127, 2007-11-08. To amend title 31, United States Code, to prohibit the further minting of 1-cent coins until the Secretary of the Treasury and the Chairman of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System certify in writing that there is not a surplus of 1-cent coins already available for use in transactions, and for other purposes. The U.S. Mint currently spends $.014, which is more than the face value, for each copper-clad zinc U.S. cent it produces.[31] Paul joked, "We can't even afford a zinc standard anymore.


Social Security

    Social Security earnings limit repeal (cosponsor): Repealed the earnings limitation on Social Security. Seniors now continue working after retirement without being penalized.
    Social Security Beneficiary Tax Reduction Act. H.R. 161, 2009-01-06, originally H.R. 2723, 1997-10-23. Repeals the 1993 increase in taxes on Social Security benefits.
    Social Security Preservation Act of 2009. H.R. 219, 2009-01-06, originally H.R. 219, 1999-01-06, cosponsored since H.R. 857, 1997-02-27. Invests the Social Security surplus "trust funds" in marketable interest-bearing obligations and certificates of deposit, essentially insuring the integrity of the surplus.[2]
    Senior Citizens Tax Elimination Act. H.R. 162, 2009-01-06, originally H.R. 4790, 2002-05-22, cosponsored since H.R. 761, 1999-02-12. Makes Social Security and Railroad Retirement Board payments nontaxable.
    Social Security for Americans Only Act of 2009. H.R. 160, 2009-01-06, originally H.R. 489, 2003-01-29. Limits Social Security benefits to U.S. citizens and nationals.

Religious Freedom Amendment. H.J.Res. 78, 1997-05-08 (cosponsor). Clarifies the "right to acknowledge God according to the dictates of conscience" to include the right of prayer in public schools and other public property, and to prohibit state establishment of religion or requirements to participate in prayer.



Freedom of association

    National ID (amendment): Prohibited funding for national identification numbers.[2]
    Identity Theft Prevention Act of 2009. H.R. 220, 2009-01-06, originally H.R. 220, 1999-01-06 (Freedom and Privacy Restoration Act). Protects Social Security number confidentiality, prohibits uniform national identifying numbers, and prohibits imposition of federal identification standards.
    TV Consumer Freedom Act. H.R. 3602, 2007-09-19, originally H.R. 1078, 1999-03-11. Requires consent for signal retransmission, eliminates must-carry requirements, terminates Federal Communications Commission (FCC) mandates for television features and functions, and clarifies retransmission rights of satellite carriers.
    Freedom to Bank Act. H.R. 1419, 2009-03-10, originally H.R. 6297, 2006-09-29. Ends laws and regulations which deny decision-making opportunities and communication control to bank account holders. States in its long title that such laws "treat the American people like children".

Here he is on the right to keep and bear arms

    Second Amendment Protection Act of 2007. H.R. 1096, 2007-02-15 Defends law-abiding citizens' Second Amendment rights to own firearms.
    National Park Second Amendment Restoration and Personal Protection Act of 2007. H.R. 1897, 2007-04-17. Prohibits firearm regulation within the National Park System. Based on 2006 legislation by Senator George Allen.
    Citizens Protection Act of 2007. H.R. 2424, 2007-05-22. Repeals the Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990 as amended.

This is just a small list of the issues RP has addressed. If these sound like the ideas of a kook, or someone that has done nothing for the taxpayer in his time in office, then fine and dandy, because your mind is made up and those of us that believe he is the one for the office, can never hope to change your mind with facts.

 
 
 
OK, I'll bite.  Which, if any, of these bills were passed?  If none, or few, then he is completely INEFFECTIVE.

[saddlebum]

This is a web post I came across today that articulates what I and many others think about Paul and the majority of his supporters. It is not meant to point a finger at anyone on this site. It is in response to one of the fanatics. Since this anonymous poster is more articulate than me, I am posting it here.......No offense meant to anyone.
 
"I think the greatest argument against Ron Paul are the comments posted here and elsewhere by the “Paulies”, as they’re coming to be known. I have some friends that are Ron Paul supporters, and they’ve elevated him to near-prophet status, much the way the “greenies” have elevated Al “sky is falling” Gore to prophet status. They’re like a bunch of cultish religious zealots blinded by their narrow ideologies. The looniness of their comments and fanatical dedication to him are self-marginalizing. They are their own worst enemies because of the way they present and project themselves!"
 
"I know a guy in my local area that has self-appointed himself as a Constitution expert and travels the area giving paid lectures, on the conspiracy groups seeking to overthrow our government. Many in the local Constitution Party look at him like a prophet, going to his lectures and providing him with an income. I have no doubt that such conspiracies exist who seek to destroy our Republic, especially the ones backing Emperor Obama, but he is so narrow in his understanding that he comes across as puritanical and just plain crazy. He is an ardent Ron Paul supporter."
 
"People see that and they think, “If that’s what his supporters are like, I want NOTHING to do with Ron Paul!” They’re painting themselves as a bunch of wacky Ron Paul groupies. People run as fast from him as possible simply because of the nutty comments and fanaticism of his supporters. This is my own observation, but several of my other friends have observed the same."
 
"While I agree with Ron Paul on virtually all economic issues, he is way off base in ignoring the threat of a nuclear Iran. He is also misguided in his desire to legalize every vice known to humanity. He would transform us into “Amsterdam America”, with a porn shop, a crack house, and a brothel on every street corner, all in the name of “freedom”. News: Addiction is NOT freedom! Marijuana is only the beginning point for this friend of mine and his fellow Ron Paul fanatics. Some are near anarchists! No thanks! That’s no environment in which to try to raise children!"
 
"And that’s one reason why I will NEVER support or vote for Ron Paul. His “followers” are the best reason NOT to vote for Prophet Paul!"

[ironglow]

Saddlebum; 
  I agree with you..no offense meant but the guy does have a point..probably the attitude of RP's supporters do more harm to his cause than any other single factor.  The writer of the article explained it quite well.   Sorry, but that's the way it is..

[BUGEYE]

I've said it over and over that I like Ron Paul, but when his followers call non-followers "sheeple",
it's insulting to other conservatives.
Newt or Herman could rip him to shreds in a one-on-one debate.

[Doublebass73]

For starters. Bugeye mentioned a couple possibilities Newt/Cain or Cain/Newt... You want smaller govt ?..Cain is the leading Tea Pary candidate and we know that is the aim of the Tea Party...  You want smaller govt

I would hardly call anyone who wants to implement the 999 plan, a plan which increases my taxes a smaller government candidate.

Newt has already said he would fire all 32 "czars" on his first day in office.  Both will eliminate many of the useless beaurocracies entrenched in DC.

That's great but I refuse to vote for a candidate who voted in favor of the "gun free school zones act". I wouldn't call a guy who voted to blatantly violate the 2nd Amendment a "small government" candidate.

Libertarians are bacically 'fiscal' conservatives...only those who embrace fiscal and cultural conservatism...are FULL conservatives (IMO).

I agree with you, unfortunately the whole crop of Republican candidates other than Paul are fiscal liberals and social conservatives. There are no FULL conservatives running by that definition. I'm a Christian who is comfortable with my own love of Christ. I don't have enough faith in any government that they are somehow going force Christian values on people who want nothing to do with Jesus. Give me the fiscal conservative to run my country any day and let God be the judge of the immoral. The tax money saved from the fiscal conservative can better be spent at church.

I doubt there are great numbers of true conservatives who want homosexual marriage (or animal/human marriage either)

God will judge whether that is immoral or not, I prefer to err on the side of liberty and the Constitution. Could you show me the passage in the Constitution which gives the federal government the right to regulate marriage?

wide open dope smoking,

Yeah because that war on drugs is working great, TRILLIONS of dollars spent on it and more people get high now than when they started the war. Sure sounds well worth it to me. Big government sure is good at solving all of life's moral problems.

the continuing holocaust of abortion (isn't 50,000,000 dead, enough by now?)...

Myself and Ron Paul both believe life starts at conception and want to protect the unborn. We might disagree with you on the fact that the federal government is a poor way to go about it, like Reagan said we shouldn't look to the federal government to solve our problems. You know how the rest of it goes.

..As far as foreign policy, the notion of "jump in bed and cover up your head" was tried by the US in the 1930s..  The spread of Nazism and an incident at Pearl Harbor.. brought that to a screeching halt..

The problem with that argument is we didn't jump in bed and cover our heads. We still kept not so secret alliances.

BTW:  If we were to 'ignore' Iran as Paul suggests...would those guys caught in an attempt to bomb embassies and the Saudi ambassador, have been able to actually pull it off ?  Perhaps a new "Pearl Harbor incident"  ?

I'd be willing to give the "ignore" option a try since our policy of sticking our noses everywhere hasn't worked out to well for us.

[BUGEYE]

Doublebass, the 999 plan eliminates a bunch of other taxes.

my taxes would be less.  those that don't pay any, would then pay some.

[Doublebass73]

I pay plenty of taxes already, under the 999 plan I'd pay even more. That's great if it works out for you but I can't personally get excited about a guy who is going to cost me more money.

[BUGEYE]

when I was working, I paid a LOT more than 9% income tax.  when I croak, my wife wouldn't have to pay the death tax.  plus there's more that would be eliminated.
if you're relying on your 401K to help with retirement, there would be NO capital gains tax.
if I didn't have so much trouble typing, I'd outline the whole plan.

[nw_hunter]

I would have been very proud of my son!You mention the Bill's Paul has introduced or co-sponsored! and call him a trouble maker. and ask what he has accomplished making a living off the Tax Payer. Here are just a few of his Bill's presented.


HR1146 Stops participation in UN
He wanted to withdraw from the WTO
HJ Resolution 46 To stop birthright citizenship to children of non Americans
Police Security Protection Act. H.R. 3304, 2007-08-01, originally H.R. 1410, 1997-04-23 (Law Officer's Armor Vest Tax Credit Act of 1997). Creates tax credit for law enforcement officers who purchase armor vests.
Anti-Terrorism Act of 2007. H.R. 3305, 2007-08-01, originally H.R. 2896, 2001-09-14. Proposed immediately after the September 11, 2001, attacks, permits pilots and navigators of aircraft, and law enforcement personnel detailed to aircraft, to carry firearms.

Abolition of income tax: H.J.Res. 23, 2007-02-07. Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States relative to abolishing personal income, estate, and gift taxes and prohibiting the United States Government from engaging in business in competition with its citizens. Repeals the Sixteenth Amendment, income tax, estate tax, and gift tax, and limits the government only to Constitutionally authorized enterprises.

Affordable Gas Price Act. H.R. 2415, 2007-05-21, originally H.R. 4004, 2005-10-06. To reduce the price of gasoline by allowing for offshore drilling, eliminating Federal obstacles to constructing refineries and providing incentives for investment in refineries, suspending Federal fuel taxes when gasoline prices reach a benchmark amount, and promoting free trade.


Make No Cents Until It Makes Sense Act. H.R. 4127, 2007-11-08. To amend title 31, United States Code, to prohibit the further minting of 1-cent coins until the Secretary of the Treasury and the Chairman of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System certify in writing that there is not a surplus of 1-cent coins already available for use in transactions, and for other purposes. The U.S. Mint currently spends $.014, which is more than the face value, for each copper-clad zinc U.S. cent it produces.[31] Paul joked, "We can't even afford a zinc standard anymore.


Social Security

    Social Security earnings limit repeal (cosponsor): Repealed the earnings limitation on Social Security. Seniors now continue working after retirement without being penalized.
    Social Security Beneficiary Tax Reduction Act. H.R. 161, 2009-01-06, originally H.R. 2723, 1997-10-23. Repeals the 1993 increase in taxes on Social Security benefits.
    Social Security Preservation Act of 2009. H.R. 219, 2009-01-06, originally H.R. 219, 1999-01-06, cosponsored since H.R. 857, 1997-02-27. Invests the Social Security surplus "trust funds" in marketable interest-bearing obligations and certificates of deposit, essentially insuring the integrity of the surplus.[2]
    Senior Citizens Tax Elimination Act. H.R. 162, 2009-01-06, originally H.R. 4790, 2002-05-22, cosponsored since H.R. 761, 1999-02-12. Makes Social Security and Railroad Retirement Board payments nontaxable.
    Social Security for Americans Only Act of 2009. H.R. 160, 2009-01-06, originally H.R. 489, 2003-01-29. Limits Social Security benefits to U.S. citizens and nationals.

Religious Freedom Amendment. H.J.Res. 78, 1997-05-08 (cosponsor). Clarifies the "right to acknowledge God according to the dictates of conscience" to include the right of prayer in public schools and other public property, and to prohibit state establishment of religion or requirements to participate in prayer.



Freedom of association

    National ID (amendment): Prohibited funding for national identification numbers.[2]
    Identity Theft Prevention Act of 2009. H.R. 220, 2009-01-06, originally H.R. 220, 1999-01-06 (Freedom and Privacy Restoration Act). Protects Social Security number confidentiality, prohibits uniform national identifying numbers, and prohibits imposition of federal identification standards.
    TV Consumer Freedom Act. H.R. 3602, 2007-09-19, originally H.R. 1078, 1999-03-11. Requires consent for signal retransmission, eliminates must-carry requirements, terminates Federal Communications Commission (FCC) mandates for television features and functions, and clarifies retransmission rights of satellite carriers.
    Freedom to Bank Act. H.R. 1419, 2009-03-10, originally H.R. 6297, 2006-09-29. Ends laws and regulations which deny decision-making opportunities and communication control to bank account holders. States in its long title that such laws "treat the American people like children".

Here he is on the right to keep and bear arms

    Second Amendment Protection Act of 2007. H.R. 1096, 2007-02-15 Defends law-abiding citizens' Second Amendment rights to own firearms.
    National Park Second Amendment Restoration and Personal Protection Act of 2007. H.R. 1897, 2007-04-17. Prohibits firearm regulation within the National Park System. Based on 2006 legislation by Senator George Allen.
    Citizens Protection Act of 2007. H.R. 2424, 2007-05-22. Repeals the Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990 as amended.

This is just a small list of the issues RP has addressed. If these sound like the ideas of a kook, or someone that has done nothing for the taxpayer in his time in office, then fine and dandy, because your mind is made up and those of us that believe he is the one for the office, can never hope to change your mind with facts.

 
 
 
OK, I'll bite.  Which, if any, of these bills were passed?  If none, or few, then he is completely INEFFECTIVE.

If you really want to know then look them up.  I'm not wasting my time doing it for you.

Most of his Bills will be defeated because they are sound, sensible bills, and those don't fly in DC today. Reason being too many Liberal Republicans posing as Conservatives, that vote with their Liberal friends across the isle. But he keeps trying, and that's enough in my book! Doing some research on Project Vote Smart, I noticed that when Newt was in office, he had a HUGE amount of DID NOT VOTE'S on his record.That is one way stopping a good bill from going anywhere.

Just don't show up.

One thing that's obvious with RP detractors. Most are not informed voters! They don't take the time to know who their Reps. really are. They listen to Rush, Fox and Friends, Beck or one of the other Mainstream talking heads, and that's good enough for them.If they (RUSH) or one of the other Conservative imposters calls RP a kook and the leader of of a Cult, then he must be....RIGHT?

Got to run! The space shuttle from  Jupiter will be coming to pick me up and take me to the Kool-Aid party on Mar's.

[Casull]

If you really want to know then look them up.  I'm not wasting my time doing it for you.

 
Sorry, I don't fall for cop outs like that.  YOU are the one pushing RP, but you won't (or can't) answer a simple question about YOUR own post.  Pathetic.
 
 

Most of his Bills will be defeated

 
Exactly.  Just like I said, he is ineffective.  You can whine about the reasons for that, but that doesn't change the fact that he has, as far as I have heard, never sponsered a piece of legislation that went anywhere.
 
 

The space shuttle from  Jupiter will be coming to pick me up and take me to the Kool-Aid party on Mar's.

 
Sounds about par for those that think RP will be elected, AND, if elected would be able to accomplish anything. 

[BUGEYE]

nw_hunter, as usual you are being insulting to other conservatives.
why don't you come on board and insult liberals.  that might give more credibility to what you have to say.

[ironglow]

NW says;
 
  " One thing that's obvious with RP detractors. Most are not informed voters! They don't take the time to know who their Reps. really are. They listen to Rush, Fox and Friends, Beck or one of the other Mainstream talking heads, and that's good enough for them.If they (RUSH) or one of the other Conservative imposters calls RP a kook and the leader of of a Cult, then he must be....RIGHT"?
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
 
   NW..
    Read your paragraph above. Your statement about Ron Paul "detractors";  most of this thread has been concerned with ho the Ron Paul devotees seem so tunnel visioned.  Like the other candidates, he has both strengths and weaknesses, but his fans seem loathe to admit it.
  No matter, the crux of the paragraph is how you address people who don't necessarily agree that Ron Paul is the very best candidate.
   
   1) You accuse them of being  "uninformed"..         How can you assume that ?  Can you prove that conclusion ?
 
   2)  Then you accuse them of not "taking the time" to check out their reps..     How do you know that for sure ?
 
  3)  You claim they only listen to Rush, Fox, Beck and other 'talking heads'..not even checking further.   How do you know ?
   
   Besides... if you have superior, unbiased sources, please share them with us right now.
 
  4) I listen to Rush but haven't heard him even suggest any such thing as Paul being a "cult leader".
  ( Paul is not a cult leader. the big problem is that his devotees are "cult like' followers)
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
 
   Do you see where the accusations above makes you look like you think you are somehow superior to those who disagree with your singular choice ?
  Can you picture where showing such a 'superior' attitude, you are only reinforcing the article Saddlebum cited in reply #45 ?
  If you really can't see that, you're just proving out the crux of the article..
 
  As I said earlier and stick with..Ron Paul's hyper-devoted followers do his cause more harm than good (IMO).

[saddlebum]

I think we should make fun of Lead Poison, since he started this and now doesn't seem to be paying any attention to it.......Probably laughing at us!   

[BBF]

"mebbe" the lead got him

[briarpatch]

The problem with Ron Paul is, he speaks the truth. It is so far out it scares us.
If you will notice the media will not even speak his name, they dont want to give anyone a thought of him.
He is one of the few that would change the status quo and fight for the change.
The media will tell you who to vote for. They will give you a few names and let you think you have a good a man but it will be to the advantage of the elite and media.
On it goes until the end.

[Casull]

He is one of the few that would change the status quo and fight for the change.

 
 
Sorry, Briarpatch, but RP has been tilting at those windmills for years . . . but without anything to show for it.   He might fight for change, but I doubt he would ever change the status quo.   As far as I know, he's never even been able to get ONE Republican to co-sponser one of his bills.  If he can't convince a single member of his own party, he'll never get any support from the other party.

[powderman]

The liberal media will push the ones they are sure would lose to obummer. POWDERMAN.