Author Topic: beginner gun (Read 1572 times)

b23ball23 · « **on:** December 18, 2003, 11:25:41 AM »

i'm 14 years old and am looking for a nice centerfire rifle to get me started off. This will be my first centerfire. I am looking for one that i can possibly get sub 1" groupings, and will introduce me to the great world of long range rifles. i am more than willing to spend up to 700$ to get a great gun .
thanks for the help and god bless

ben

helobill · « **Reply #1 on:** December 18, 2003, 11:34:46 AM »

depends on what you're going to hunt and at what range. I got my 6mm Remington in a model 700ADL when I was 14, still have it. It's my rifle of choice for whitetail Deer (when I'm not hunting in Illinois) out to 200 yards and coyotes out to 300. If you're talking punching holes in paper at long range, try some of the small caliber mags, great for p-dogs also.
Bill

John Traveler · « **Reply #2 on:** December 18, 2003, 11:36:03 AM »

Ben,

I envy you!

Selecting that first centerfire rifleis something that I wish I could do all over again!

Before you decide which one and what caliber, you have to decide what you want to use that rifle for: hunting, plinking, competition target shooting, varmints, what? That will help you to decide on the caliber as well. What action type do you want/need? Single shot or repeater?

For your stated price range of up to $700, you can get a decent rifle and a good quality telescope.

Good luck!

John

kc5rkg · « **Reply #3 on:** December 18, 2003, 11:50:21 AM »

It all depends on what you wanna do with it. I got my Winchester M70 Lightweight 30-06 when I was 14, and have never looked back, I'm 21 now.

As for the caliber, if you want a gun just for deer, I would strongly suggest a 7-08. If you want a gun that'll do just about everything, I'd get a 30-06.

As for the gun....I really like my winchester, but have heard a lot of good things about Tikka. I think they are supposed to shoot sub-inch groups out of the box.

scott

b23ball23 · « **Reply #4 on:** December 18, 2003, 11:52:32 AM »

i think i'm goin to hunt AND target shoot. The taget shooting will be when no one will take me hunting :grin: But the hunting will probably consist of nothing bigger than deer for now. But in maryland there is nothing but deer! :-D but i will take anything i can...without being cruel
thanks for the help...i can tell it will be a fun descision!!
god bless-
ben

ps: because i play many sports like my beloved basketball...a recoil that will blow my arm off would not be a good thing!!!!!

Dave in WV · « **Reply #5 on:** December 18, 2003, 03:10:32 PM »

You could buy a Savage chambered for 30-06 and get a good scope with the money left over. Remington is coming out with a lower recoil ammo with a special bullet that will expand at lower velocity. You could start with the low recoil ammo and work up. It would be a rifle you would never truely out grow. Dave

helobill · « **Reply #6 on:** December 18, 2003, 03:30:32 PM »

But Dave what fun would that be. You gotta at least have a lame excuse to buy more! :grin: Starting off with a bolt gun is a good choice, 6mm Remington or .243 Win is about as small as you want to go for deer. 7-08 is good too, as are just about all the .30 cals until you get to the mags (my 300 Remington Ultra Mag is way too much for whitetail deer for a lot of reasons). Don't discount the 6.5/264/270s and the 7mm's out there too. Your choices are endless. I'd recommend a study of the ballistic tables, you can get them off the Remington web site and lots of other places. Figure out how far you're going to be shooting, a 30-30 lever gun wouldn't be the best choice if your shots are going to be at 200 yards or more. Likewise a 30-06 wouldn't be the best choice if all your shots are going to be inside 100 yards (my opinion guys). Chuck Hawks pages has good descriptions of just about every caliber and cartridge out there, so it's good reading to start with and might help you make up your mind. www.chuckhawks.com/index2.guns.htm Then you got to find a rifle you like, some folks like Monte Carlo stocks others can't stand them. Length of pull has to feel right, and you have to decide if you want to shoot open sights or scoped (distance of your shots will often determine this for you). Sometimes the search can a lot of fun, I know reaching the decision to get a new .308 Win to complement my .300 RUM (vice a 30-06) took a while, but I think I'm going to like it. Good luck.
Bill

257AI · « **Reply #7 on:** December 18, 2003, 04:44:37 PM »

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the 308. It is available in about any rifle you want. It has plenty of power for anything up to elk with the right bullets. It has a long tradition for target shooting and is a top choice of the police and military. Ammo is cheap and available almost everywhere. It can be loaded down to less that 30-30 or with Light magnum loads from Hornady, Federal pushes the 300 H&H. It has everything going for it but glamor. On the other hand I am partial to the 257 Ackley Improved.

Good luck in your choice.

257AI

huntsman · « **Reply #8 on:** December 19, 2003, 03:12:19 AM »

If I had it to do all over again from age 17, I would find a superb stainless steel rifle with a fit and feel that suits me. I would select on of the following calibers, in order of preference: 6.5x55, 7mm-08, 7x57. All have relatively mild recoil and can handle everything from varmints up to moose with authority. IMHO the "magnum" craze is a lot of hullabaloo. The standard calibers shooting the right loads and premium bullets are quite effective without all the recoil and muzzle blast. If you are going after dangerous game, such as the larger N. American bears or African game, then that is a different story.

Also, don't forget quality optics, with a nitrogen-filled tubed, multi-coated high-quality lenses, and rugged construction; a rifle is only as good as its aiming mechanism.

Boy, I envy your pocketbook and opportunity. Enjoy your selection process! :grin:

Dave in WV · « **Reply #9 on:** December 19, 2003, 04:23:07 AM »

helobill, get the meat and tatters first then go for the gravy.

Zachary · « **Reply #10 on:** December 19, 2003, 06:23:41 AM »

Ben,

Take a good look at the 7mm-08 Remington and .270 Winchester. Both are excellent deer hunting rounds and recoil is tolerable for even younger shooter such as yourself.

As for rifles, I prefer stainless synthetic rifles. Take a look at Tikkas and Remington BDL SS models.

Zachary

Graybeard · « **Reply #11 on:** December 19, 2003, 07:04:53 AM »

I can remember back when I was your age even tho that is well over 40 years ago. I too wanted a rifle and asked for what at the time had to be a pre 64 Model 70 Winchester in .30-06. Instead I got a junker semi sporterized Argentine mauser in 7x57. A real junker. Still I have developed a love of the 7MM bore and still have it.

I have what I'd think is your ideal rifle. Rem. 700 LSS Mtn. Rifle in 7-08. You could get one with a nice scope for your price I believe. Mine out of box was a sub MOA shooter with both reloads and factory ammo. There is a wide selection of factory ammo in this round now and for reloaders the bullet selection in 7MM is second only to .30 Cal. Recoil is mild to moderate and it will kill anything you'll likely want to hunt for most of the rest of your life.

If I were again now where you are today this is the rifle I'd want. NOPE mine ain't for sale at any price.

GB

b23ball23 · « **Reply #12 on:** December 19, 2003, 11:16:55 AM »

wow!! you guys are awesome!! thank for the help.
the 30 - 06 looks like a gun i will upgrade to as i get used to the shooting
rem 700 lss mountain seems like a good choice in 7-08.

helobill- thanks a lot for that site...now i have a good idea on recoil and stuff!!
7-08 along with .243 and .270 and 6mm seem good choices, but which one??
.223- is it too small for deer?

reminder: i will probably shoot target to get used to my new gun, once i'm comfortable i can get someone to tag me along on a white tail hunting excursion
god bless and thanks soo much-ben

Lawdog · « **Reply #13 on:** December 19, 2003, 11:33:08 AM »

Ben,

My nephew is going to get his first rifle Christmas morning. It's a Savage Package Series Model 10GXP3 in 7mm-08. This comes complete with scope, leather sling and QD swivels all for around $500.00 or less. You can do to http://www.savagearms.com/10gxp3.htm and see them for yourself. It will also leave you enough money to get started reloading. From what I understand the 7mm-08 was developed by silhouette shooters and this is the cartridge my granddaughter chose for her rifle the she is going to get for Christmas. I too remember picking my first rifle, a Win. M94 .30-30 like everyone else was using. Didn't get it but what I did get was a original, military 1891 Belgium Argentine mauser in 7.65 mm. I sporterized that rifle in high school shop class(try doing that now a days) and I still have it although it has been re-barreled to .257 Roberts. Have fun making your choice. Lawdog

b23ball23 · « **Reply #14 on:** December 19, 2003, 11:51:25 AM »

thanks lawdog i am looking at savage as we type
Gray beard- i went to the remigton site and found the msrp of the mountain lss is 800$
where would i be able to find this and a good scope for uder 700?
agian-
thanks
god bless
ben

Graybeard · « **Reply #15 on:** December 19, 2003, 12:28:02 PM »

With most brands Remington included the MSRP has little relationship to what they really sell for. Retail at my local dealer on them is under $600. I'd have to double check with him again to see just how much under. I just bought a new R700 VLS which should retail as high or higher from him a few months back for $500 and something. Don't recall the exact price but enough below your $700 to get as scope also if you don't go over board.

Of course my rifles are wearing scopes worth almost as much as they are especially when you add in the base/rings.

GB

Old Cane · « **Reply #16 on:** December 19, 2003, 02:17:08 PM »

You check gunbroker.com to see what a lot of stuff is selling for. You will need a parent involved to buy online or at a local shop as I'm sure you know. Not like when we were young.

But anyway, I think you can find the LSS like GB likes (laminated and stainless) for around $600 if you look. The Savage is a great value. $500 is way high on them. Even at my local "high as a cats back" gunshop they are under $400 for the package deal. You can get wood or synthetic. It's a good gun.

There is always wal-mart even if you're just window shopping. Maybe not in your state though. Remington is also making the 710. I don't know much about them but they come in 270 and 30-06 are sell for $350 with a bore sighted scope. They are slightly less than the Savage package.

You can always find, with as much as your are able to spend, great used guns with a lot of character or in like new condition with good glass on them. A friend has a shop nearby with a Belgium made Browning Safari in 7mm mag with a Redfield wideview scope for $500. The problem with most people asking advice are looking for a good high end bolt action rifle with a quality scope and can only spend $150!!! You will have lots of choices. That in itself can cause problems but they are the good kind. If your parents or close relatives don't know much about rifles find someone that does and take them along when you look and you should have a life long keeper.

Dave in WV · « **Reply #17 on:** December 19, 2003, 04:32:44 PM »

Ben, in 1990 My wife and I gave my son a Savage 110 .243 for Christmas. I missed that Christmas do to Desert Shield/Storm. I didn't miss the 1991 deer season with him when he bagged his first buck. He still has that first rifle. I'm giving him a laminated stock for it this year for Christmas. He has my first deer rifle I bought. I hope you really like your first rifle and the memories it will have. Maybe in years to come it will be passed down too. Dave

stork · « **Reply #18 on:** December 19, 2003, 05:20:21 PM »

The 6.5x55 Swedish and .308 win are very good hunting/target rounds well worth considering. Both are very accurate and should provide very small groups. I would recomend a Savage with the new AccuTrigger. The thrigger is supposed to much nicer (lighter pull, ect) than the standard trigger. Savage makes a very accurate rifle. My Savage is a 30-06 Model 111F. I am 14 also and if you are worried about the recoil do not get a 30-06 in a rifle that weighs 6.5 pounds. I do not know exactly what my savage weighs with its scope but it is not over 7.5 pounds. I have the standard trigger on mine and even it is a fairly good trigger. There are definitly better triggers out there though. A good trigger will greatly improve your rifles accuracy. With your money I would recomend a Model 16FSS in .308 win, and then I would go look for a good scope.

b23ball23 · « **Reply #19 on:** December 20, 2003, 05:52:45 AM »

right now i'm thinking either the remington mountain rifle lss/other rems. or the savage law enforcement seris model 10 fp-lea2.
but these are definantly not my final options.....i'm still thinking about calibers
rite now i'm thinkin 7-08, .243 win, or mabey a .308 win. But again..this is not final
thanks again for all your help and support-
ben god bless

Old Cane · « **Reply #20 on:** December 20, 2003, 07:05:04 AM »

the lea is a not a light rifle. I like heavy guns being very heavy myself but for walk in the woods a shorter barrel in a lighter weight is more pleasant. But you know, if the weight doesn't kill you it will only make you stronger.

b23ball23 · « **Reply #21 on:** December 24, 2003, 03:45:15 AM »

true......very true

happy holidays

azshooter · « **Reply #22 on:** December 24, 2003, 04:02:48 AM »

This is an old archive but a very interesting read on the invenstment casting process from what appears to be a former Ruger Employee. Costs less does not always equal less quality. For many years manufactures have used new techniques to improve or quality while reducing costs. Heck look at computers. Quality is much higher than a few years ago for better performance and for much less money.

http://yarchive.net/gun/investment_casting.html

Sask_Hunter · « **Reply #23 on:** December 24, 2003, 07:32:05 AM »

get a tikka t3 in 25-06 then put a bushnell elite 3200 or leupold VX1 in the 3-9x40.

the low recoil and the accuracy of the tikka and 25-06 is nothing short of spectacular. you can shoot 75gr vmax for any thins short of deer then top off the case with a barnes x 90gr bt.

a 7-08, 308 are other good options.

ihuntbucks · « **Reply #24 on:** December 24, 2003, 08:00:37 AM »

My first was a Rem. Woodsmaster 742 .30 06.Shot like a dream and looked good too.Need my head examian for selling it;but of course I was young.As the other guys have said,what do you want to use it for? I think 30 06 or a little down would be a good cal.One post said he evied you and wishes he could be picking his first.Myself I'd just like to be 14 again :lol: good luck and good hunting,Rick

Eagle Eye · « **Reply #25 on:** December 24, 2003, 08:21:15 AM »

I agree with Greybeard on this one all the way....a Remington Mountain Rifle in 7mm-08 REM with the LSS variant. If they had been available when I started out, I would still have it! They don't kick the crap out of you, are generally accurate right out of the box, and they look real nice too! Light easy to carry and they balance well with a 22" barrel. Put a good quality 3x9x40mm scope on top and you are set for life....unless of course, you need an excuse to buy more firearms. :wink:

jim21 · « **Reply #26 on:** April 29, 2006, 04:29:56 PM »

Buy yourself a good 30-06,you cant go wrong with one of them.Ammo is still cheap and you can always find military ammo too.

Huffmanite · « **Reply #27 on:** May 02, 2006, 11:09:13 AM »

Mossberg ATR in .270 and a Rossi .223. Use .270 for hunting and .223 at range. You should still have enough money left over for a decent scope for the Mossberg and an inexpensive one for the Rossi.

K.K · « **Reply #28 on:** May 02, 2006, 02:00:31 PM »

Don't forget the used gun market, either. Have someone knowledgeable shop with you and find one that suits your needs. The guys on this site have provided you with some great advice. I have found some great deals on great guns over the years. You must know what to look for, but for the most part, you can do very well. Let someone else pay for the depreciation on a new gun and use your savings to buy a good scope and lots of ammo. My first hunting rifle was a used Rem ADL in .270. I still cherish it. I am glad to see a young person joining the sport. Good luck.

Don Fischer · « **Reply #29 on:** May 02, 2006, 05:43:06 PM »

Quote from: b23ball23

i'm 14 years old and am looking for a nice centerfire rifle to get me started off. This will be my first centerfire. I am looking for one that i can possibly get sub 1" groupings, and will introduce me to the great world of long range rifles. i am more than willing to spend up to 700$ to get a great gun .
thanks for the help and god bless
ben

Boy is this an old thread! The young man is now 17 and maybe picked up an impotrant lesson by now.

You can probally buy a 1" rifle but likely as not if you don't have the proper shooting skills, you'll seldom see 1"! Ditto the long range rifle.

People that shoot 1" group's on a constent basis, do so because they work at shooting technique. Many, if not most, also not only handload, they learn to do so well. There are handloads and then there are handloads and then there are handloads. I've known a good number of people that handload that make safe useable rounds but accuracy wise they leave something to be desired by the person looking for 1". And I know others, myself included, that are satified with 1" and don't chase 1/10ths. Usually those people, myself included, could use some more work on shooting technique. But as for myself, as I get older I care less about that super accuracy and don't chase it. But then I do shoot a bug hole now and then if I hold my mouth just right.

The important thing to note here is that accuracy cannot generally be bought. It's a product of a good rifle and very well practiced shooting disapline's. Most rifle's come from the factory shooting better than the average guy can shoot them! And that doesn't say a lot.