357 Max for elk?

[dk17hmr]

I am kind of getting hosed out of deer season this year, work load is way to much and deer season is to short.  But elk season is longer and the work load should lighted up once the weather starts to cool down.  I am plannin on use the 357 Max because it is probably my lightest big game legal rifle, the other option is my AR in 6.8 with 110gr Accubonds.  We are back pack hunting in the mountains and I dont want to pack around my 15 pound 300wsm.

I just got my 357 Max barrel fitted and scope sighted in with a book max load of 21.0gr of H110 with a 180gr jacketed bullet but I am using a 185gr hard cast bullet.  I dont know what type of velocity I am getting, as I dont have a chrono.  It shoots pretty good about 1.5" at 100 and one big hole at 50 yards.  I am going to keep working the load up until pressure signs start showing up and than backing off a bit more.....wanting more velocity.
Anyone have any favorite heavy loads in the 2000fps range with a 180gr+ bullet?

What do you guys think?  With a Wide Flat Nose bullet in the 185gr range will it work with the type of velocities I can get at rifle max (not book max) loads.

I am still going over in my head 454 or 460 out of my 45lc barrel, or I would use that.

[trotterlg]

If you ever find yourself standing 20 feet from a full grown Elk you will want something a lot bigger than a .357 Max.  If you think you can put down a Horse with one shot from your rifle then go for it.  I've been 20 feet from them with a 30-30 and I felt really small.  Larry

[dk17hmr]

Good point Larry.

I know its not up to me but I am not trophy hunting, meat hunting, but if a trophy shows up......

I am going to try some different power if I can find it, Accurate 1680 list a much higher velocity in my Lee reloading manual, it should put me well into the 35 Remington velocity range.

[Spanky]

I've never seen an elk but I hear they're a pretty big critter. The Max would probably work in a pinch but I'd use something bigger.
Like I said... I've never seen one so I'm just guessing.



Spanky

[gendoc]

me and the boy goes to colorado every year to elk hunt. and i have seen them guys
use .243 with 90-100gr spbt for head shots. they have bigger stuff available to shoot with
but i guess its bullet placement that counts.
same as what dk said....they don't want to carry a 15lb .375 h&h magnum either.
i can see that point.    my son if he could get away with it, would carry a barret fer them real
long shots

[billy_56081]

You should be fine out to 200 yards. The most important factor is bullet placement. The bullet you are using seems very adequate.

[bikerbeans]

No help on the Elk and the Max but I know that a 180 grain HP/XTP with 19 grains of H110 will come apart on a Fox Squirrel at 35 yards.  This is out of 18 3/4" barrel Handi.  I wouldn't want to shoot a bull with an "Elk Gernade".    Your choice of a cast bullet is the right one, folks been killing big stuff with them for a long time.

BB

[bilmac]

I think I would shoot a borrowed rifle before I would shoot elk with a 357 max. Being a short range cartridge means you will most likely be shooting the heavy cover. The cartridge is not likely to shoot all the way through the critter , so there is a good chance of no blood trail. Even with very good bullet placement, anything other than a head shot is almost guaranteed to run. With no blood trail in heavy cover you could probably shoot 5 elk for every one you find.

[GatCat]

I think if anyone has any questions about the .357 Max, with a proper hard cast bullet, for elk, the thing to do would be to go to the cast bullet forum and ask Veral about it. My guess is he'd say something to the effect that it would make a ping-pong ball size hole right through the critter.
Mark

[wreckhog]

This beast of a deer looks like a baby elk. Also, I suppose that if Contender guys hunt elk with 357 Mag handguns at point blank range, a Max at 200 yards might do the job. I never thought of the .357 Max as a cast bullet hunter. The meplat is just so much smaller than a WFN .44/.45

http://357maximum.com/

[petemi]

I too am NOT an experienced elk hunter.  If and when I ever draw a tag, the Handi .45-70 will be in my right hand.

Pete

[Dweezil]

45LC out of a Handi was mentioned as a option.    Would a heavy, say 300gr Magnum XTP or 300 gr hard cast do the trick for elk? ASSuming Ruger/TC loads as a starting point.   And, the BC 45LC is even lighter weight than the Handi in 357.

[aromakr]

My Max with a 180 gr speer and 27.2 grains of AA1680 does 2048 at the muzzle, that really pushing a 35 Rem. and many elk have fallen to that cartridge. Elk in Montana will go between 800-1000 pounds. I think if shots are kept at 150 or less you will not have a problem. Someone said he wanted a pass through to get a better blood trail, I'd rather have the bullet expend all its energy in the animal, instead of chewing up some trees or digging a trough in the ground, so I didn't need a blood trail. I'd rather have the animal just fall out of the scope vision.
Bob

[quickdtoo]

I'd recommend the use of the Speer 180gr FP based on CWLongshot's experience with it, you can see the terminal performance of it in the 35 Remington at 2300-2380fps.

I have been reloading for some time an the 357 Max is one of my favorites.
 As for as powders, any of the faster magnum pistol powders will work for this caliber. My favorite is AA1680.

If hunting with this caliber, be aware most bullets are designed for lower or higher velocities as this is not a popular claiber. IMHO anything below 180 is too small for even white tails at higher velocities attainable in a 357max rifle. I shot a number of game with Hornadys SSP180. The last few deer I shot with it the bullets did not exit. They litterally exploded inside. I got both animals, but with much lost meat.
 I switched to the Speer 180FP. I worked up to the same load and got about the same accuracy. I have shot one deer with that bullet. Simular placemant and thru and thru penetration and good expantion.

Good luck,
 CW

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,121722.msg1098413869.html#msg1098413869

My Max with a 180 gr speer and 27.2 grains of AA1680 does 2048 at the muzzle, that really pushing a 35 Rem. and many elk have fallen to that cartridge.

Not to dis the Maxi, but I keep seeing claims that it runs close to the 35Rem, well, if 200-400fps slower is close, I guess it does.

Tim

http://www.suitorsgarage.com/gunstuff/35remington/35rempart2.html

The Speer 180 Flatnose Softpoint

The 180 Speer has been offered as a handloading component for a long time, and Speer promotes it as being suitable for the .35 Remington in past and present editions of their handloading manuals. It is somewhat more streamlined than the various 200 RN’s, and according to Speer possesses a somewhat higher ballistic coefficient. Past editions of the Speer handbooks give this bullet a velocity of up to 2427 fps (using IMR 3031). It seems to be a pretty popular selection among .35 Remington handloaders, and the lighter weight may suggest a faster opening bullet than the various 200 RN’s. When actually tested in the books, however, it quickly becomes evident that this is a deeper penetrating bullet than the 200’s. It also tends to expand to a smaller frontal diameter than any other bullet save the similar profile 220 Speer. The jacket folds closely along the shank of the bullet, and penetration averages about 50 percent deeper than any of the 200 RN’s at all ranges.

[petemi]

O.K.....whataya call this Phobia...."I wanna kill everything with the dinkiest bullet possible."  Old sourdough's wanting to get a Brown Bear with a .17.  I simply don't understand it.  My idea is to poke the largest hunk of lead you can in the desired target......too much?....not a problem.....just less meat.

Pete

[dwalk]

key factor is bullet/arrow/pellet placement.

read the latest NRA rifleman mag's article of karamojo bell's 7x57/.275 rigby or better yet read the book: Bell of Africa. bell took near a thousand elephants with the 7x57. he knew where to place the bullet...

i once saw a video of a .357 mag revolver putting a huge hole in the engine block of a 350 Chevrolet...also read an account of a LRRP ranger killing a vc from 200 yards with a .357 revolver...

the .357 max has more ooooommmppfff...

[billy_56081]

What is "tiny" about a 200 grain bullet at 1800 to 2000 fps? The 38-55 was considered perfet elk medcine in years gone by, have elk evolved armour? Guy take your 357 max hunting, within its range limits it is exellent elk medicine.

[wreckhog]

More deer have been killed with the .22LR than any other round also, why ain't that legal.

[Lon371]

More deer have been killed with the .22LR than any other round also, why ain't that legal.

Because to many people would have their rim fires out wounding way to many Deer.

Lonny

[jeepmann1948]

Take your 357 max insert 1 bullet in the elk, pose for pics  Good luck Enjoy your hunt

[briarpatch]

A sure way to make any bullet to small, to slow or to anything, is ask on a forum. If a man cant kill it with what he's got, he dont have the knowhow to kill it with anything.

[petemi]

I guess I just have too many rifles, and am too infatuated with great big, slow, pile driving bullets.  I don't believe I own a rifle that won't kill a large animal....including the .22LR.  I grab the one that's gonna do the job best at the anticipated distance and conditions.  I like a big hole in and out.  Normally the .45-70 is my go to rifle.  This year it'll stay home while the .38-55 and the .445 go to work.  The big in and out hole will still be there.  My maxi hasn't taken a deer yet, but it will...perhaps even this season.

Pete

[wreckhog]

Within their effective range, call it 50 yards on a deer, a 22 is at least as accurate as anything else you might shoot. Lack of blast, recoil, whatever. But I see it time and time again at the range. Guys have no problem putting 30 out of 50 shots into an inch at 50 yards without really trying, using their Marlin 60 or other cheap rifle. They pull out the Remington 700 in 30-06 (or equivalent) and their groups are LARGER! That would make a .22 better on a head shot.

[petemi]

I shot .22 indoor 50 ft competition for years as a kid and never failed to dump a bullet in the 10 ring or close to it.  No, it's not a deer rifle, or even close to it.  A head shot with a .22 pokes a hole...the same shot with a .45-70 removes the head.  Point made??

Pete

[av-doctor]

in my younger years i was doing a little poaching and i can say as a fact a headshot with 22lr is not a guaranteed kill, but the same shot with a 22mag will keep the freezer full. 357 max for elk you asked? personally i wouldn't (not disputing the max) general rule of thumb always use more gun than you think you need!!

[dk17hmr]

Going to buy a 458 win mag.

[trotterlg]

Take more gun than you think you need.  In this state a 25-20 is legal for Elk.  If you have ever stood next to one you will know how stupid that rule is.  When you get a shot at one you will be fortunate if you can (or will) just aim for center of mass.  Have a good time and report back in a month with the results.  Larry