Author Topic: getting set up for off grid living. Need help? (Read 8238 times)

efremtags · « **Reply #30 on:** September 15, 2010, 04:05:34 PM »

Every 100W of solar will run appx 10W of load. Every 120AH of battery will run appx 5-days backup @ 12V. Simply Put, get yourself a pair of 200W size modules, a 15A SunSaver MPPT- controller and 4 trojan T105 flooded golf batteries, and you will have ample power for lights, laptop, cell phone, small fan. Shop around online,

Simple gravity hot water system is the way to go for hot water in TX.

If you want a fridge a Steca PF166 will run on about 100W of solar. It's not cheap, but it runs on very little power. Very nice unit.

glock fan · « **Reply #31 on:** October 02, 2010, 07:17:49 PM »

NGH & efremtags,

Sorry about not replying sooner. I've been out of pocket and just got back in town. I've got three black water tanks and the water does stay hot due to the sun's intense heat. I've got to figure a way to elevate them to do a gravity feed. I've got plentyof wood for heating as well. Just need to get a good stove. This next week I will be meeting a crew down @ the ranch who is going to install two 40'x12' stalls on the sides of the center 40'x24' RV cover. When done it will look like a horse barn. The south 40'x12' stall will be enclosed with roll up garage doors @ each end. I plan to use this space for storage & as a garage for my ATVs. The north 40'x12' stall will be partially enclosed. One end will be a bathroom (5'x12') and the other will be a pantry & laundry room (5'x12'). The center area between them will be a screened-in porch (30'x12'). I also hope to get the rain catch system installed too @ the same time. Eventually I hope to move my RV from under the RV cover and enclose the central RV cover stall and make it into a cabin. Before I do that though I will have the water & solar/wind systems in place. I'm doing this in stages and evolving the camp into a homestead. I think this will take about 2-3 years. When done, my goal is to be living totally off-grid.

bilmac · « **Reply #32 on:** October 03, 2010, 03:04:27 AM »

I'm putting together an off grid place here in Wyo. Keeping warm in the winter will be a much higher priority here, but I think I prefer that to a bug problem. I plan to keep warm by digging a 50X20 foot cabin into a south facing hill, and having the whole 50 foot south wall mostly windows, with a wood stove to suppliment.

One thing I think you may be missing in your plan is a way to cook outdoors. Our ancestors did that when it was hot. Right now I am camping in a trailer, and cooking indoors makes the place real hot real fast. Mother earth news had a recient article on a versitile wood fired grill that could be used as an oven, a grill or a regular cooktop.

I just reciently buried a 1400 gal cistern, buried to keep the water from freezing, but I would think in Texas some cool water from a buried tank would sure improve life.

glock fan · « **Reply #33 on:** October 03, 2010, 10:05:01 AM »

bilmac,

Your place sounds like it is going to be really nice. The earth home you describe should be cool in the summer & warm in the winter. A wood burning stove would keep you very cozy in the winter. I had a wood burning stove/fireplace when I lived in Mo. It had an internal fan that automatically turned on when the stove reached a certain temperature. What was neat is it had glass front doors that allowed you to see the fire inside, kinda like a fireplace. It was both beautiful and functional. As for cooking, I only use the microwave inside my RV to cook. I have a couple of grills and a propane stove I use for cooking outside. When the screened-in enclosure if finished, I'll do all my outdoor cooking there. Projects like these require a lot of planning and hard work but should be worth it in the end. I really appreciate the ideas that have been put forth by everyone who has responded to this thread. I've gotten a lot of good ideas and sorted a lot out as a result of ideas and concepts put forth here. Good luck with your homestead too. You've got a great concept and plan.

bilmac · « **Reply #34 on:** October 03, 2010, 11:07:42 AM »

It was the kind of place I've been dreaming about my whole life, and finally when I retired, and the real estate crisis, and the grace of God I got my ideal.

no guns here · « **Reply #35 on:** October 04, 2010, 06:20:08 AM »

Another option for outdoors cooking is an earth oven. Plans and details on MotherEarth. We made one for a Celtic festival in Germany a couple of times. Takes just a little work to make but cooks great once you figure it out. All you need is firebrick, sand, mud, newspaper, water and a door for it. Doesn't take too much to get it hot and ready for cooking. A nice raised fire platform for cooking is great too. A German friend had built a really nice one with concrete block and cement. The fire platform was about waist high. Then the grate was on that. So the fire was just about belly button high and then cooking was on the grate. Much easier than squatting down all the time.

Sounds like your "barn" will turn into a house in the not too distant future. Nice idea. Build it modularly and then you can pay for it as you go. You are so far out, there are obviously no real code restrictions. I wish I could talk my wife into something like that.

NGH

glock fan · « **Reply #36 on:** October 04, 2010, 10:31:17 AM »

NGH,

Great idea on the earth oven. I will definitely check it out. I might even incorporate a fireplace/fire pit/oven concept that could be multi-use for cooking and entertainment both. That type of structure could anchor an outdoor living space which is becoming a big trend down here in south Texas. BTW, your trip to Germany sounds like it was quite an adventure and you made an impact while you were there and did some neat things. Thanks for the tip.

no guns here · « **Reply #37 on:** October 04, 2010, 10:48:43 AM »

Yeah, 4.5 years in one place lets you do some fun stuff. We were REALLY involved in Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Venture Scouts, Girl Scouts, Little League, Army JROTC, Youth Football and probably some stuff I missed. Four kids and a wife that can't say "no" to a chance to volunteer will do that for you. Also picked up my German hunting license and did a bit of hunting there.

I could see an outdoor living space with a large corner area with an "outdoor" fireplace in the center and an L-shaped "island" on one corner with a grill flanked by an earth oven and a raised fire platform for cooking on the other side. DANG! I just gave myself an idea. I better draw something up and stick it in my "ideas" book. This little conversation will probably cost me $3000 and a bunch of sweat!

NGH

no guns here · « **Reply #38 on:** October 04, 2010, 10:53:23 AM »

There is a drawing in my book that was inspired by some of the "pavillions" that we had on post in Germany. They were approximately 25' across with a concrete slab and 6 sides. Conicle roof, with shingles. All the wood was solid logs and timber. They had great big, heavy solid picnic tables and benches in them too. I always thought one of those would be great if it were screened in (bugs) with a smoke hole in the center directly above a nice sized fire pit. I took some pics of them too. Would love to have something like that but with screens and shades to drop down to block the sun/wind.

NGH

tacklebury · « **Reply #39 on:** October 04, 2010, 07:11:51 PM »

Should look into Yurt construction.

Portable or permanent, I've read good things about them too.

saddlebum · « **Reply #40 on:** October 04, 2010, 10:27:11 PM »

Maybe you can get some good info from these guys.

http://offthegridnews.com/

glock fan · « **Reply #41 on:** October 07, 2010, 12:09:35 PM »

saddlebum,

I checked out the website you referred me to and have added it to my favorites. Thanks for the heads up.

saddlebum · « **Reply #42 on:** October 07, 2010, 01:02:10 PM »

Your welcome, glock fan!

WD45 · « **Reply #43 on:** October 08, 2010, 10:09:11 AM »

with the straw bale construction I believe you need a timber frame type structure that actually supports your roof /floor system and the straw bales are the filler between the bents

no guns here · « **Reply #44 on:** November 01, 2010, 04:34:36 AM »

Any updates? Haven't heard anything in a while on this. I was REALLY enjoying this thread.

NGH

glock fan · « **Reply #45 on:** November 01, 2010, 06:08:12 PM »

NGH,

I had to delay my plans until the first week of December. My Dad fell and has needed my help. My Mon & Dad are in their late 80s and very frail. So sometimes I don't get to do things when I want to. I pretty much have to work around their needs. I'm glad to do that though they've been good to me all my life. Unless something else comes up, I plan on having the expansion done by the first week in December. I've got evrything lined up & coordinated & ordered. My son (24) is going down with me when its time to get it done. We always have a good time when we work together. The crew is coming out from Mcqueeny, Texas and is bringing an RV to live in while doing the work. My son and I have to prep the expansion site areas. A guy is bringing out the base fill from Del Rio the day before the work crew arrives. The base fill is called "scalpings". Scalpings are small shards of limestone. They use it as base for highways down here. When wetted down & rolled out with a drum, it packs down almost like concrete. I used it in the original construction and it has worked out great. It is also dirt cheap. I put down a 40'x24'x6" deep area for less than $600 delivered & rough spread. If I could have had concrete brought out, the cheapest bid I got was $4,800. However, the terrain is so rough no company would agree to deliver to the site. My first objective is to wind up with a 40'x12' storage area and a 40'x12' screened in outdoor living area. Trying to get this much done B4 CHRISTmas. Next year, I plan to get gravity fed water & solar elec. systems installed. After that I plan to relax & enjoy for a while. The good news is down here fall/winter is the best time of the year to do this kind of stuff. Tonight, Nov. 1, I grilled hamburgers & hot dogs in T-shirt, shorts & flip-flops after dark. A cold beverage helped keep me cool. LOL!

no guns here · « **Reply #46 on:** November 02, 2010, 06:00:33 AM »

Yep, yesterday was sort of warm in San Antonio too. But those storms last night were a welcome relief. We needed the rain. Supposed to be really nice today with possibly more rain tonight and tomorrow. I can't wait until I can get started on a place myself. Only 4 more months in the AF and then I have to get a real job somewhere. Hopefully I can buy some land next summer...

Those "scalpings" sound like the ticket for a fill. Not sure I get it though... is it used as a base under the concrete or in place of the concrete?

NGH

glock fan · « **Reply #47 on:** November 02, 2010, 10:41:30 AM »

NGH,

"Scalpings" are generally used as a base under concrete in highway construction or for that matter in any general application. However it can be used as a stand alone base without a concrete layer on top as well. The latter way is how I plan to use it for now. Some day I may eventually pour a slab on top of it. The RV cover has a steel base that is anchored to the ground via rebar stakes. 20" deep holes are drilled into the limestone rock. The hole is slightly smaller than the diameter of the rebar stake. The stake is driven into the hole with a sledge hammer. Once driven in it isn't ever coming out as the rebar is ribbed. An L-shaped flange fits over the rebar stake and the flange is then bolted to the steel base. The steel base holds the scalpings in place. The scalping material is designed to pack down very tightly. Once the material is raked/smoothed out/leveled within a confined space all you need to do is wet it down good and roll it with a drum filled with water or ride over it with a truck or ATV to pack it down. Repeat the process a couple of times and you're good to go. The stuff packs down very hard. You can drive your truck across it and the tires won't even show signs of tread marks. For my needs at this time it is a very cost effective way to put a floor or base in my storage space addition or in the screened in space addition. Currently my RV is parked under the original RV cover stall which has a scalpings base in it. I'm a believer. Your mileage may vary though.

bilmac · « **Reply #48 on:** November 06, 2010, 04:56:14 AM »

Sounds like good stuff and a good solution to some of the problems you have. I wish we had a material like that around here. The only problem I could see that you would have is that weeds will probably want to grow in it, but if they don't get much moisture, then probably nothing you can't live with.

no guns here · « **Reply #49 on:** November 08, 2010, 04:46:54 AM »

Roundup...

glock fan · « **Reply #50 on:** November 08, 2010, 12:31:00 PM »

Bilmac,

You make an excellent point but I haven't had a weed problem thus far. If I do start to get one I'll respond with NGH's reply. Roundup. I realize this isn't as good a solution as a concrete base. Its what I can afford to do right now in light what else I'm trying to do at the same time. It seems like a reasonable bang for the buck vs a concrete slab. Also it will make an excellent base for a concrete slab if I should eventually do one. The one person I thought would really not like this solution was my wife. Ironically she threw out that if we did this this way we could afford a rain capture system and an initial solar system set up this year. My kinda gal.

bilmac · « **Reply #51 on:** November 09, 2010, 04:37:04 AM »

Didn't read through the whole thread so I suppose you've already got some good advice about solar power. What I have been doing is buying the Harbor Freight 45 watt system. I just bought my second set a couple days ago for $150. As far as I have been able to find, that is about the lowest price per watt available. The set includes 3, 15 watt panels and a load center which does more than the simple regulators that most systems include. It also has a metal frame which is worthless. I built the frame to hold the panels out of 2X4s. There are no holes in the frames on the panels, so I fastened the panels to the frame with screws and washers between the panels.

This set will get my total up to 135 watts, I have been adding to the system a little bit at a time. Lets me learn as I go and I have had some power from early on without robbing the bank. All my panels are 15 watts. I kind of think that is a good way to go because I can aim the panels to max out at different times of the day. Also if one gets broke it's a $50 loss not several hundred.

glock fan · « **Reply #52 on:** November 09, 2010, 07:32:43 AM »

Bilmac,

Excellent solar advice/concept. I will check into Harbor freight for sure. Once upon a time I saw some flexible roll out type solar panels. They were modular and could be plugged together in a series. Supposedly they were very durable. For example if one got shot by a stray bullet, the other panels were unaffected and the damaged panel would still work @ near 100% capability. Still that type panel cost way more than the setup you referenced in your post. So replacing one under any circumstance would be much more expensive. That's why I'm going to check into you idea. I haven't had a problem with theft or vandalism.... yet. I want to mount the panels on some type of simple sturdy cart that I could easily roll out and back into a garage. That way if we're gone for extended periods traveling or the weather is threatening hail, the panels will be safe from theft or weather issues. I can use my generator when we return to have power initially until the batteries get charged from the solar panels or set up a cheap trickle charge system to keep the batteries up while we're gone. I'm excited about solar and wind power because I've got a favorable perfect storm situation. My place in on an unobstructed mesa plateau. We get tons of sun & wind. I think there may even be some new systems that integrate sun & wind power together. However, I plan to start out slow & go cheap until I get a better understanding of how well this stuff really works and how reliable it really is. Thanks for the heads up.

bilmac · « **Reply #53 on:** November 10, 2010, 01:04:08 AM »

If you aren't using your battery, the 45 watt set would probably keep it charged from inside a building if it was just pointed at a window. I used to have a tiny cabin and I had a little fencer battery and tiny 5 watt solar panel that I just set in an east facing window. All I used the electricity for was a light bulb, but the system worked for years without fail.

glock fan · « **Reply #54 on:** November 10, 2010, 03:45:32 AM »

bilmac,

Your idea fills the bill. Your solution should work perfectly. Sounds like a great way to keep batteries charged up while gone. Once again thanks for your input.

glock fan · « **Reply #55 on:** November 13, 2010, 04:58:04 PM »

Bilmac,

I went to Harbor Freight today and bought one of their 45W systems as you suggested. I also bought one of their 2000/4000W inverters. My wife found some 20% discount coupons so I'm going back Monday and get three more of the 45W systems. That will get me a total of 180w system. Next I need to get some batteries. Efremtags recommended Trojan T105 6V golf cart batteries. Just need to find them as cheap as I can online somewhere. This should allow me to keep my ATV/RV batteries always charged up. Also hope to be able to run lights, fans & my computer @ night for 3-4 hrs. Can't wait to set this stuff up and see how it really works. GBU it should be fun one way or the other. Will let you know how it goes!

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #56 on:** November 14, 2010, 05:53:40 AM »

I have picked up a couple of the Harbor Freight units as well and am going along the same lines as you are. I didn't think of just setting the panels in the window while gone, very good suggestion

thanks for that! Still following this close, what kind of wiring have you run for the inverters to connect to for power around the building? DP

bilmac · « **Reply #57 on:** November 14, 2010, 01:17:17 PM »

Well so far I haven't used the load center in the harbor freight kit. I have other regulators from other panels that I have been using. The instructions for the harbor freight regulator are very poor. Actually I gather it is not just a regulator but a load controller. It protects your battery from over charging, but if I interpret their info right it will also protect your battery from too deep a discharge. The way I see it for it to work as a load center you would have to draw current from either the cigarette lighter plug or one of the two 1/4 inch jacks. Neither of these seems like a good place to draw enough current to run a big inverter. I don't think you could run big enough wire through these plugs.

I think I would just wire the inverter directly to the battery and recognize that it could draw your battery down more than is good for it. I would think that the instructions with your inverter would tell you what kind of wire to connect it up. What I intend to do eventually is get a good high quality load center for about $250.

Glock Fan I think you will have to invest in a larger regulator?load center. 180 watts is way beyond the capacity of the harbor freight outfits. I suppose you could hook up each set of panels to a seperate regulator and then hook up all of the regulators to your battery bank.

You guys are getting into areas beyond what I have already explored.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #58 on:** November 14, 2010, 02:32:18 PM »

I would think in most places a wind turbine would provide more power than solar.

glock fan · « **Reply #59 on:** November 14, 2010, 07:05:16 PM »

dpe.ahoy, bilmac & billy_56081,

Wind power seems to be a better bang for the buck and should work well in my application. Someday down the road I will likely integrate /supplement my solar system with wind. I just felt solar would be a great way to get started and less espensive for an initial system as well. The Harbor Freight 45W system was only $172 OTD with discount coupons. A this point I've bought 4 kits and an inverter. I already have 2 new deep cycle 12 volt marine batteries that should get me started. One reason I decided to go with the Harbor Freight system is there must be a hundred folks who have posted videos on Youtube regarding how good a bang for the buck it is and how easy it was to set up. Cheap, a good value & simple. Also, you can easily expand the system in reasonable increments as needed. Based on what I've seen on youtube, if I expanded my system from 180Ws to about 360Ws (double) and added 2-4 Trojan T105 batteries I would be able to live off the grid (frugally). However, what I have now should power all my lites, fans, TVs, computers, etc. In other words, I won't have to run my generator @ night to have basic power. Since I don't want to mount the panels on my roof, I will have to make a rack for them and try to come up with a DIY manual sun tracker system. Again, Youtube has a ton of folks who have videos showing how to do this type stuff. Kudos to bilmac for giving me the heads up on the Harbor Freight system and to Efremtags for helping me understand solar & what components I will eventually need as the system evolves. I never looked @ Youtube much before but now I'm a big fan. I'm also looking @ setting up a rain catch system and there are great videos on how to do this as well. There are a lot of folks living off-grid and they have great ideas and tell you what has worked and what hasn't. Some folks seem to live very well. No bills. Plus they seem to take great pride in what they've done. Something real that changed their lives completely for the better. If its in the cards for me, I hope to get there too.