Author Topic: getting set up for off grid living. Need help?  (Read 8246 times)

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Offline don heath

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Re: getting set up for off grid living. Need help?
« Reply #60 on: November 15, 2010, 03:13:09 AM »
Why do we yearn to break free from the shakels of civilisation...finally do so, and then immediately set about re-creating exactly the same living conditions as we have so recently escaped from  ???

And having just done the same thing as glock fan et al (except I have used a 40ft container and the base) ...have generator, solar system, hot  cold running water...3g Modem ...I may be off the grid but am increasingly tied back into the 'world'

Offline no guns here

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Re: getting set up for off grid living. Need help?
« Reply #61 on: November 15, 2010, 06:28:46 AM »
Basically, because we don't want to be too free.  We just want to be left alone but with the comforts we have grown used to enjoying.  One thing about a wind turbine, it signifies your prescence from a long distance.  Solar panels are less obvious if you can't see the structure they are near.  A wind turbine needs to be about 30 or more higher than the highest structure or hill near the turbine.  Solar can be mounted at ground level and still be effective.


NGH
"I feared for my life!"

Offline glock fan

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Re: getting set up for off grid living. Need help?
« Reply #62 on: November 15, 2010, 06:50:11 AM »
I've been racking my brain to come up with a cheap, easy, simple construction method to address a gravity fed water cistern system and a solar panel rack mounting system, preferably integrated so as to save on cost & effort to build.  Kind of a two for one concept.  So far, I'm thinking of using weather treated 4x4x8' landscaping timbers, concrete blocks and dirt fill to make a raised bed for the 1500 gal. plastic tanks and to integrate a rack mount for the solar panels.  First I put down a 3" deep bed of scalping base.  Level/smooth it out.  Take (4) 4x4x8s and lay them in a square.  Lag bolt them together. Six layers laid on top of one another should get me up about 2'.  Underneath the first layer I'd use cinder blocks laid out in a 8x8 square to set the first layer on to keep it up off the ground.  Fill the square base with scalpings and rebar layers and I should have a very sturdy raised base to set the water tanks on.  I could use 2x4s the to build a solar panel rack mounting system and tie it into the water system support base.  The cost should be pretty cheap and it should take alot of engineering or skill to build.  However I'm open to ideas so if anyone can think of a better, easier way please let me know.  TIA   

Offline glock fan

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Re: getting set up for off grid living. Need help?
« Reply #63 on: November 15, 2010, 07:21:56 AM »
Don,

 Sounds like you've got a neat place set up and we're trying to do something pretty similar.  The containers are great for storage and security.  I've seen where some folks made cabins out of them and some companies are now converting them and offering them as modular living quarters.  Unfortunately I learned about them after I'd already opted to go down the road I've taken.  I the NGH got it right about wanting to live free but live well too.  I want keep my place as more of a "camp"  but have running water and power for a refrigerator, washing machine, fans, DVD player, computer etc.  On the other hand I like to use oil lanterns, BBQ grill, camp stove, wood burning stove, etc.  I don't want things refined just to be comfortable.  The biggies for me are freedom, solitude, peace & independence but in a comfortable setting.  Yep, I want my cake and to eat it too.           

Offline no guns here

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Re: getting set up for off grid living. Need help?
« Reply #64 on: November 16, 2010, 06:56:09 AM »
I just helped a buddy pick up a 3000 gal rubber/plastic type of cistern.  The guy at the place he bought it (only sells tanks) said to make a pad, pour about 6-8 inches of sand.  Set in the tank, fill it about 1/4 to 1/3 full and then pour sand in around the base about 1-2 deep.  Said it won't go anywhere in the wind and would set there just fine even if it's full.


NGH
"I feared for my life!"

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: getting set up for off grid living. Need help?
« Reply #65 on: November 16, 2010, 08:36:38 AM »
My idea is a semi-underground home, since in the south at least, 3' under is a constant 58-62 degrees year round.  Easy to heat up with body heat, lights, cooking etc.  Not easily seen from a distance.  Can use solar - battery system for lights, maybe a 12v frig.  Can cook with firewood, and it wouldn't take much.  Food would be easy to store in a back room.  It would be like a root celler. 

Offline no guns here

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Re: getting set up for off grid living. Need help?
« Reply #66 on: November 16, 2010, 09:36:41 AM »
My wife just said that she wouldn't mind an underground house if she could get more light.  I hope she's serious as I've been thinking about this on the back burner for a few years and think I have it figured out. 


NGH
"I feared for my life!"

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: getting set up for off grid living. Need help?
« Reply #67 on: November 16, 2010, 11:21:11 AM »
Where I live I want to build one with the East side open to the light.  Build it about 12-14' high with interior walls 8' high with glass from there on up so light can come over the top of the wall.  Have a 2' drop down ceiling so you can run lights, a forced air system for better ventilation and dehumidifier but hidden above the drop ceiling.  Use florescent or LED lights on a 12 volt system.  On the East side plant decidous trees for sun in winter but shade in summer.  In our area tornadoes always run from SW to NE, that side will be covered with dirt. Cold winds are from north and NW so that side is covered.  Summers are hot so south and west sides are covered.  Your largest users of energy is Heat, Water Heat, and Air Conditioning.  Followed by dryer, cooking, refrigerators and freezers, then washers, and smaller appliances like TV's and computers.  You can usually do without air conditioning if you have fans and shade, but you can't do without heat, and having a hot shower is nice.  You also must cook.  Another thing is capture your washing machine water in at least two 55 gallon plastic drums.  Go through one to catch most lint, etc, then into the second one.  Put a pump in the second drum to pump water to your toilets, flushing with the gray water.  Toilets use about 1/3 of your water while the washing machine uses another 1/3.  Basically you cut you water bill by 1/3 or your water usage by 1/3.  You can have a ball cock valve with fresh water connected (not directly just flowing into) the second drum in case you don't wash enough clothes to have water for flushing.  You can add solar-battery arrays to your power sysem as you can afford them and link them together as you buy new ones.  You can also build your own solar heat and water heating sysem with pipe plywood and glass.  Inside painted black to absorb heat. 

Offline Drilling Man

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Re: getting set up for off grid living. Need help?
« Reply #68 on: November 16, 2010, 01:32:58 PM »
  I know several folks who are living off grid, and they tell me Harbor Frieght does have the lowest price panels, BUT, they aren't very high quality, and don't begin to last as long as the higher priced panels.  In the end, they end up costing more...

  DM

Offline nailbanger

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Re: getting set up for off grid living. Need help?
« Reply #69 on: November 16, 2010, 01:50:40 PM »
For you folks considering an underground house, or for that matter any new constrution. Look into adding a radon mitigation system to your building. Here in the midwest where I live this is a real health issue. A secondary benifit is humidity reduction.
I'm a state licensed radon mitigator, but this is a system you can add yourself, if you have basic constrution skills.
Just Google radon mitigation.

Offline glock fan

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Re: getting set up for off grid living. Need help?
« Reply #70 on: November 16, 2010, 04:00:29 PM »
Drilling man,

I hope you're wrong about the quality issue on the Harbor Freight solar panels cause I went for them big time.  I got (8) 45W kits which will give me 360 Ws of power.  They were definitely far cheaper than anything else I'd seen, especially since they were on sale for 25% off and then I found 20% discount coupons in the Sunday paper.  I got a total of (8) 20% discount coupons from my neighbors & family.  LOL!  So I got these kits for about 45% off retail.  Since the individual panels are only 15Ws each, if some go bad it won't have a huge impact on my overall system.  I hope.  I view this as a learning experience and some eggs are likely to get broken in the process.  While I certainly don't have $$ to burn, I feel like I did my due diligence and will have to take chances accordingly.  If you go to Youtube and type in Harbor Freight solar system reviews, you will find a gazillion favorable reviews.  However, I'm sure many of the folks haven't had their systems very long so a year from now they could all be totally disenchanted.  Right now I'm more worried about getting the system set up correctly and securely.  I'm excited about getting free power from the sun.  The possibility of that really has me jazzed.       

Offline Drilling Man

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Re: getting set up for off grid living. Need help?
« Reply #71 on: November 16, 2010, 04:32:10 PM »
  All i can tell you is, i've seen post about them more than a few times, and they are not considered a long lasting panel.  The best brand panels are guarenteed to put out MAX for 20 years, and even if they do, i wouldn't consider that cheap electricity.  Of course, some folks just don't have any other choise, IF they want to have electricity.

  BTW, the folks that use wind to make electricity, almost always end up going away from it, and going to the best panels to make electricity.  Wind generateing it expensive, too much maintance, and not always reliable.

  DM

Offline glock fan

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Re: getting set up for off grid living. Need help?
« Reply #72 on: November 17, 2010, 05:24:29 AM »
Drilling man,

Thanks for your input.  I hope I didn't come across as defensive, cause that wasn't my intent.  I appreciate your insight on the quality of the Harbor Freight solar panels.  I can still go back and buy a 2yr. warranty on them although I would hope they would last for 5 yrs. at least.  If they can make it for 5 years, by then hopefully the cost will have dropped.  Most of them come out of China anyway.  I'm not a big fan of "made in China" yet I buy on price as a lot of folks do.  Sounds like this time I may have shot myself in the foot.  Penny wise and pound foolish.     

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: getting set up for off grid living. Need help?
« Reply #73 on: November 17, 2010, 05:50:38 AM »
Don,
I think to your question above is the following.  We want our independence.  We don't want to have to pay monthly bills.  We don't want to be dependent on the "grid".  IF an EMP destroys the grid, we want to be able to survive in comfort and independence.  If we loose our jobs, we want to be able to survive without one.  If the economy breaks down or we have hyper-inflation, we want it not to affect us.  We want to be self sufficient.  The idealist survivalist wants his food, energy, water, all to come from the land or sun with no outside help. 

Offline glock fan

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Re: getting set up for off grid living. Need help?
« Reply #74 on: November 17, 2010, 06:12:33 AM »
NGH,

I am using 1500 gal. tanks.  They are green rubber/plastic beasts.  You can roll them since they are round.  Sounds like they are a smaller version of what you and your friend installed.  My son is going to help me move them where we need them and get them up onto the base.  I'm going to take your advice regarding the concrete/sand base fill.  I plan to use weather treated eight foot long 4x4s or 6x6s to build a square base form to hold the concrete & sand.  I need to go up 3' if possible.  I plan to use large lag bolts and spike nails the hold the base together.  If I can get up to 3' high, the tanks should provide good water pressure even if there were only a couple hundred gallons of water in each one.  I could use a 12V Shurflo auto demand pump if needed but prefer to be gravity fed if possible.  Once installed I will fill them with about 500 gals. each from a nearby well.  Next spring I plan to install a rain catch system to keep them full on an ongoing basis.  Eventhough it is a semi arid environment out there, we do get  a couple of frog stranglers a year.  Sometimes it is so bad the road washes out in places.  The last two years the road has washed out to a point where you couldn't get into or out of my place for three days.  A couple of those kind of rains and my tanks should be full.  Free water. 

Offline glock fan

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Re: getting set up for off grid living. Need help?
« Reply #75 on: November 17, 2010, 06:21:49 AM »
Dixie Dude,

You are on the right track.  I would have done an earth home if I could have.  I'm sitting on solid rock.  I would have had to blast.  Maybe I should have. LOL  When I lived in Missouri, one of my neighbors built an earth home.  It was south facing and built into a side of a hill.  The whole southside was comprised of a series sliding glass doors.  He and his wife loved it.  It was really a basement living area with a first floor ground level garage/storage building on top of the basement.  He had a wood burning stove for heat in the winter.  He just used fans in the summer since it stayed cool w/o AC.  He didn't need it.  Low cost, low maintenance, low utility cost.  A good way to go. 


Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: getting set up for off grid living. Need help?
« Reply #76 on: November 17, 2010, 06:46:17 AM »
Yep, except I am further south and if I ever get to build mine it will be east facing.  Like I said south to hot, north too cold, bad weather always from sw or nw.  Only exception is a hurricane coming inland with east blowing winds, but a little hump or rise a few yards away might help it blow over like one of those windshield protectors mounted on the hood of a car.  Air conditioning is a big problem in the south and heating in the north but you can live without air conditioning in the south with shade and fans, but you can't live without heat in extreme cold.  I could rig up an underground piping system to cool air from say a few yards away from the house running underground to cool the air to blow the cooler air into the house.   

Offline Drilling Man

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Re: getting set up for off grid living. Need help?
« Reply #77 on: November 17, 2010, 01:12:54 PM »
  Heating a house in the north isn't a problem, we have plenty of pretty much FREE firewood for that, not to mention that we can aim out houses "south" for solar gain.  BUT, you won't be running your air cond. with firewood in the south, and air cond are ENERGY HOGS, so you won't be running one with any afforable off grid source of electricity either.

  DM

Offline glock fan

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Re: getting set up for off grid living. Need help?
« Reply #78 on: November 18, 2010, 03:59:46 AM »
Big Dog 454,

I was looking @ your post and noticed that your son's place looks to be near my zip code.  You said his solar/wind setup wasn't keeping up with his needs.  How many watts of power is he using?  How many batteries does he have and what is his total AHs?  Sounds like his setup is similar to mine and maybe I can get a sense of appropriate system size for my needs.  I only have 360W of solar power and I have 4 6V golf batteries that produce 880AHs total.  No wind power as yet.  While I have the components bought I don't have the system set up/fired up.  Thus if he was using .5KW ,for example, and it wasn't cutting it for him then my set up wouldn't likely meet my needs either.  Then I could get more solar kits while they are still on sale.  Any further lite you could shed on his setup and experience would be very helpful.       

Offline glock fan

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Re: getting set up for off grid living. Need help?
« Reply #79 on: December 02, 2010, 04:07:37 PM »
Hi,

I haven't posted any updates in a while so I thought I'd let ya'll know what is going on.  This Saturday my son and I head down to the ranch to start the addition.  Sunday the guy comes with the base for the addition and we prep the ground and spread it.  Monday the crew will be there to start building the two 40'x14' additions.  By Thursday, we should have a horse barn structure that will include a cabin & storage area added to each side of the existing 40'x24' center structure.  We will have about 2100 sq. feet under roof total.  I've planned/saved/waited 3 years to get to this point.  I will come back to San Antonio for CHRISTmas but will be heading back down shortly to put in the gravity-fed water and solar systems.  Getting ever closer to living off-grid.  Can't wait to do a stupid dance in the end zone.  Good news is no one will see it so I won't have to live it down.  LOL             

Offline efremtags

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Re: getting set up for off grid living. Need help?
« Reply #80 on: December 07, 2010, 01:12:26 PM »
harbor freight sells crap. There' s plenty of reputable low cost sources out there, surf the web for them. I would not rely on cheap Chinese crap for my home if it was my primary power source. I am amazed at what people will convince themselves is good when price is low.

Offline jrfrmn

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Re: getting set up for off grid living. Need help?
« Reply #81 on: December 11, 2010, 06:39:54 PM »
What is it called?
Ah bug spray. They make some that you spray around your dwelling and it lasts for weeks if not months. The asian beetle were about to drive my mom insane until she had her house sprayed. There was a patch of these orange bugs a foot wide around the house. 

Offline billy_56081

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Re: getting set up for off grid living. Need help?
« Reply #82 on: December 11, 2010, 07:04:42 PM »
What is it called?
Ah bug spray. They make some that you spray around your dwelling and it lasts for weeks if not months. The asian beetle were about to drive my mom insane until she had her house sprayed. There was a patch of these orange bugs a foot wide around the house. 

She had an exterminator spray. I know after that my dad bought some at the lumber yard, it worked but not as long. Don't know that name.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline glock fan

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Re: getting set up for off grid living. Need help?
« Reply #83 on: December 13, 2010, 03:49:48 AM »
Where things stand now:  The crew came to do the build-out.  So far everything that could go wrong has.  However my son and I had a great time and really bonded over the past week.  Repaired some rough edges between us.  We hunted, zereoed in some new toys and road ATVs over some of the prettiest scenery a guy could hope to see.  All in all a great week.  Back to the build-out.  The crew didn't finish and made some mistakes that they will have to redo when they return.  Mostly cosmetic stuff.  Some of it may clean up when they trim out the structure.  I don't expect perfection.  I know errors will be made but by being there during construction, I hope to keep them to a minimum.  I'm in the "hope for the best" mode right now because enough went wrong that anyone would be skeptical.  Heading back down in the next two weeks to hopefully get the project finally finished.  Got one full week invested and the project is only half done.  Should have been finished.  The crew worked long and hard every day but half of it was absent due to one reason or another.  The owner was there himself and he even pointed out some things they were going to do because he wasn't happy with their work.  Did I mention he miscalculated the job materials and ran out of material @ the site, so he has to reorder more stuff?  Luckily I have a contract and he is well established with a strong rep. but disconcerting nevertheless.  Hope the next phase goes better and I actually wind up with a good structure.       

Offline glock fan

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Re: getting set up for off grid living. Need help?
« Reply #84 on: December 13, 2010, 04:10:39 AM »
Efremtags,

I appreciate how helpful you've been, especially in regard to solar issues.  I got the Harbor Freight solar panels because there seemed to be alot of happy campers out there who use them.  Most people use them in small applications but overall they seem to be popular and alot of people expand their systems which is a good sign.  I'm sure they won't last as long as more expensive stuff but if I get five years out of them they will have served their purpose.  Since I plan to go propane on my refrigerator and heat, I will only use solar for LED lights, small fans, run small appliances or power tools that will only be run minimally and recharge/maintain various batteries.  I plan to spend more $$ on my batteries.  The crew that came out to work on my place used one 100 Amp deep cycle marine battery coupled with a $35 dollar Black & Decker 1000W inverter.  They ran their power tools all day for a week and never ran out of power.  They recharged the battery @ night.  I had two generators there because I thought they would need them but as it turned out they didn't.  You mention there are plenty of websites out there where you can get good quality solar panels, etc. for good prices.  What sites would you recommend?  Which solar panel brand(s)?  What price per Watt is a good price?  I'm a newbie to this stuff so any help is appreciated.  Some specifics would  be really helpful.  TIA        

Offline glock fan

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Re: getting set up for off grid living. Need help?
« Reply #85 on: December 20, 2010, 05:06:05 AM »
This week I went down and met the construction crew for the second time.  They were down there for two days and got most of the construction finished.  Just a little trim and odds & ends left to do and they will be done with the main build-out part.  After CHRISTmas they will come back down to install the windows & sliding glass doors.  At that point the build-out will be completed.  Next steps will be to install plumbing/water system and then electrical/solar and then refrigeration/heating/propane system.  Wow that sounds like I've got alot to do yet.  LOL!  I met some of the other ranchers in the area and they seem to be very nice folks.  They invited my wife and I down for a post CHRISTmas party.  Never thought I'd be a "rancher" but that's where we seem to be headed.  Most in the area raise goats and trap/raise feral pigs.  Deer season went pretty well too.  Seems like everyone I talked with tagged out this year.  Mostly does for the freezer.  Hope everyone has a nice CHRISTmas.         

Offline glock fan

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Re: getting set up for off grid living. Need help?
« Reply #86 on: December 24, 2010, 12:21:48 PM »
Efremtags,

Still hoping you will share your insight on solar specifics.  "Surfing the net" hasn't worked out so great for me.  Specifics on brand/type of solar panels, inverters, charge controllers, battery maintainers, etc. would be greatly appreciated.  TIA  

Offline efremtags

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Re: getting set up for off grid living. Need help?
« Reply #87 on: December 28, 2010, 01:42:13 AM »
http://www.altestore.com/store/

everything you need, just pick 24 or 48V version. This will run an entire house and can take a generator input as well to recharge on cloudy days
OUTFP1-VFX3524

best deal on low cost batteries is Trojan T-105. They sell them at golf dealers.

Offline glock fan

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Re: getting set up for off grid living. Need help?
« Reply #88 on: December 29, 2010, 02:22:50 PM »
Efremtags,

Thanks for your help.  You are a gentleman & scholar.  Appreciate your time & consideration regarding my solar questions.  Hopefully by the end of Febr. I will have my solar system in place and begin experiencing the joy of living off the grid.  Will provide feed back if folks are interested. 

Offline dpe.ahoy

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Re: getting set up for off grid living. Need help?
« Reply #89 on: December 29, 2010, 03:59:23 PM »
For sure share your experiences with us.  I'm still looking at several options, solar and wind combined being one.  Since I won't be there for a lot of time, simple is better for me.  Not going to have a big drain on the system, biggest would be a compact frig.  DP
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