Fire Lapping a Handi

[kevinsmith5]

Swamp I've read numerous reviews in the past two weeks favorable to lapping that weren't by people selling anything, heck the two books on gunsmithing I have don't mention specific products. None of the people who've psoted to this thread or the one I put in the gunsmithing forum are selling anything either....

[Swampman]

How do you know?

[kevinsmith5]

Are you saying the people here who have posted in favor of cleaning their rifles and mentioned success with lapping their barrels are paid shills for some unknown corporate conspiracy to sell rifle cleaning products? Even though most didn't mention any specific products?

[Swampman]

More likely the have simply succumbed to the shiny magazine pages and/or those spiffy comericals on the Outdoor Channel.  Of course we have no way of knowing who is posting here.  I assure you I'm not selling anything.

[saddlebum]

Swamp I've read numerous reviews in the past two weeks favorable to lapping that weren't by people selling anything, heck the two books on gunsmithing I have don't mention specific products. None of the people who've psoted to this thread or the one I put in the gunsmithing forum are selling anything either....

He is just taking another swipe at Veral Smith whose credentials are impeccable. Yes Veral sells things,(no good capitalist). Products like bullet molds that are considered the best there is by many people, for good reason. His bullet designs are so popular that people copy them and falsely sell them as LBT bullets. They have been noted as the best handgun hunting bullets ever made. Gun writers have been extolling the virtues of LBT bullets and Veral's genius for at least 25yrs that I know of. He also sells the best hardness tester ever made, IMO. He sells other products that enhance accuracy and performance with cast bullets. He also sells his book,"Jacketed Performance With Cast Bullets", which is the most comprehensive book on the subject ever written. There is so much proven, factual information in the book that it takes several readings and considerable study to take it all in, according to people who are wise enough to read it. Veral takes a personal interest in all of his customers and tries to help them as much as he can. Which can be witnessed in his GBO and other forums.

AND YES, he sells lap kits to help people improve the performance and accuracy of their guns. If this bothers some people that Veral provides this product/service at some cost to them?.....well tuff!! Nothing is free in this world and neither is Veral Smith's excellent products. Do you work for free? Veral is a solid Christian man who walks the talk and is totally trustworthy. He would never lie to you just to sell you something. If someone chooses to make negative coments about this man or his acomplishments, it is at his own disgrace.
As far as this discussion goes? It appears some people still choose to live in a cave......or swamp. What ever the case may be. (wonder if he has ever published a book or been written up in a magazine)  


LBT BORE LAP KIT
Price, $18.50 ship weight ¼ pound

The current LBT bore lap formula is a highly concentrated abrasive compound developed and manufactured by LBT specifically for lapping barrels by firing lead bullets which have been impregnated with it. (Which is why some call the process fire lapping.)

It cuts aggressively yet smoothly, without excessive throat wear. It is field proven on thousands of barrels, with no bad reports, while most get from good to dramatic accuracy improvement and reduction of bore fouling, using either jacketed or lead bullets. It improves bores by straightening bore diameter end to end, and by smoothing out rough finishes and variations in twist rate, which is accomplished primarily by straightening and smoothing the leading edges of the rifling lands. There are few things a shooter can do as rewarding as running a push thru, through a lapped bore that felt cobble stones before lapping, and feel the slug slide through tight all the way and sliding smooth as glass. Then you see the improved groups on target, knowing you fixed it yourself.

The lap kit contains very detailed and complete instructions and enough abrasive compound to lap anywhere from 20 to 200 guns, depending on gun type, bore condition, and how liberally it is used. The abrasive compound doesn’t deteriorate with age. This is all you need for 22 rimfires only.

Notice that our kit has one abrasive grit only, and is intended ONLY for use with lead bullets. Any lap kit using multiple grits and especially jacketed bullets will shorten barrel life dramatically and not do a proper job.

[Swampman]

No actually I'm not taking a swipe at anyone.  I'm sure Mr. Smith is a fine man.  If I believed in lapping he's the guy I'd go to.  If someone wants to lap he's the man I'd send them to.

I simply don't believe that putting the equivelient of 1000+ rounds (in a few minutes) down a tube that's only good for perhaps 1300-4000 rounds is a good idea.

Just shoot the gun with regular bullets.  Worse case it should shoot MOA or better right out of the box.  Mine do......

[gendoc]

hey saddlebum... i live right slap in tha middle of one of the biggest swamps in alabama.
and i own most of it...
ain't nut'n wrong with living in a swamp.  i ain't took no sides here, and i don't need no
finger point'n in my direction !!! so i think you need to clarify your post.

[saddlebum]

hey saddlebum... i live right slap in tha middle of one of the biggest swamps in alabama.
and i own most of it...
ain't nut'n wrong with living in a swamp.  i ain't took no sides here, and i don't need no
finger point'n in my direction !!! so i think you need to clarify your post.

Just glad you ended your post with a smile!!!   

[gendoc]

that smile is normal in my posts.... cus life is luvly here'n tha swamp !!!!!!!

[Catshooter45]

From what I figger, ol' Veral retired off of the two bottles of Lapping coumpound I bought off him.  Yea, he's just making a hell of a killing, that's fer sure.

Actually, I am Smith and so is every other poster on this thread.  'Cept one, of course.

I will give our one hold out credit though for remaining calm and cool through out this thread.  He's done an excellent job of that, far beyond what many could have done.

I too am done with this thread.


Cat

[gstewart44]

More likely the have simply succumbed to the shiny magazine pages and/or those spiffy comericals on the Outdoor Channel.  Of course we have no way of knowing who is posting here.  I assure you I'm not selling anything.

How do we know?

[Swampman]

I'm trying to keep you from ruining your barrel and wasting ammo.

[saddlebum]

I've used Flitz myself many times.

I wouldn't lap a barrel or buy one I thought had been lapped but that's just me.  I'd rather wear them out sending bullets down range.

I don't worry about fouling unless accuracy falls off.  That takes a lot of shooting.

Lapping is not recommended by Henry Ball-- or such championship barrel makers such as Dan Lilja of Lilja Precision barrels. "Fire lapping" is perhaps the worst approach. Barrel lapping needlessly takes life out of your barrel, and can give you ignition problems as well.

I was bored today so I decided to look online for stuff on the subject of fire lapping and came across this. It's about muzzleloaders.

http://randywakeman.com/ballltd11.htm

That explains the claim about fire lapping possibly causing ignition problems, which doesn't apply in the context of this thread.
Also maybe a lesson learned about when quoting from something online a person should not take things out of context in an effort to prove an un-provable point. I think we have shown in Lilja's own words on his website that he actually supports barrel lapping. I guess some people will not be buying Lilja' barrels. Randy Wakeman and others repeat this claim on the internet when talking about muzzleloaders, since Henry Ball is a muzzleloader guy. A brief look-up of Ball exposed pictures of blownup Savage muzzleloader,    
http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/Alert.html    (the term, "ruined barrels", used on this thread comes to mind)

and Ball defending them and smokeless powder shooting,
http://www.chuckhawks.com/interview_ball.htm

HB:" I would hope the prospective buyer understands that the 10ML-II can do absolutely everything any other muzzleloader can do, and a whole lot more. It offers them unprecedented safety, accuracy, and lack of immediate maintenance. It is built to a higher, better standard in terms of barrel quality, action strength, weatherproofing, trigger quality, safety, and knockdown power."

"The Savage 10ML-II is just a superior hunting tool. The closer you look, the more you know, the better the 10ML-II gets. It is an affordable muzzleloader, yet offers the new consumer more quality, more safety, and more versatility than any muzzleloader available today. It is designed to last several lifetimes. I should know, as I designed it that way. My grandchildren are shooting 10ML-II's right now. When I'm gone, they will still be enjoying them just as they are today."  (sounds like Ball is trying to sell something)

Unless I find something from Lilja in his own words about lapping muzzleloaders, I will assume the coments he made on his website go for all barrels. Especially since Randy Wakeman doesn't seem too credible to me.
I did find this custom muzzleloader site that mentions that Lilja's muzzleloader barrels are button rifled. Maybe that says it all.
 
http://www.richardscustomrifles.com/custommuzzleloader.htm

This post is mostly for the amusement of myself and maybe a few others that posted on this thread. I really need to find a better use of my time than feeding a dead horse. But as I said , I'm bored and was looking for some relevant information on lapping when I found the out of context, half quote used in this thread. I suggest you find someting better to do with your time than read this crap.....I am!!  

[gendoc]

we back on this shhtuff again.... i'm glad all my handi's shoot gud enough like they are.
specially my 50cal ml.. it puts it were i point it, like all my others do..
its called the american way.... yall do it your way, and i'll do the same.
i like that about
   " I suggest you find someting better to do with your time than read this crap.....I am!! "

ain't that tha truth !!!!!!  cud'nt be said no better     

[gcrank1]

Geesh....Tim, can you 'save us from ourselves' and lock this, or something?

[quickdtoo]