Author Topic: too many guns?  (Read 5596 times)

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Offline Pat/Rick

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Re: too many guns?
« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2010, 10:26:34 AM »
I'll add that at times we fired 2000 a day..and before the world IPSC shoots the US top 10 or so contenders fire 2000 a day as warm up for the week before the actual match...As Rob Letham said at the 1999 world champs...His job was making once fired cases...

It is esay to be competant with many firearms but to be really good you have to know the guns..eg AK 47 has an 'all creep' trigger of about 4lbs. The F.N. a double take up and crisp 7lbs let off. If you are used to a crisp pistol trigger like on my STI (or just about any other colt) and then pick up a CZ 75 with it's squishty take up and massive over travel...

The other point about a limited no of guns is stocking ammo. Every month for the last 25 years or so I have bought. 20 rnds of .308 match, 10rnds of Rottweill SPSG and 50 rnds of .22LR above what I have used in the month...as you can appreciate, I have a goodly stash and have not broken the bank doing so...for most of that time I was on a government pay cheque...these days I add 40 rnds of 77grn 5,56 Nato for the wife and daughters rifles. My 9,3 and pistol competition ammo...well that gets used not stocked!
Yep, it simplifies things to only have a few flavors of ammo to stock instead of lots. I am preparing to eliminate another caliber in my collection to do just that. I am glad that I started buying a little bit of ammo every payday. When the ammo crunch hit here in the states I had no worries at all.When all I could find was 12ga bird or buckshot, I bought that. When I started collecting Mosin Nagants I started buying ammo as well. It has since doubled in price. Although I shoot enough to keep proficient, I would like to shoot more just because I like it!

Offline Swampman

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Re: too many guns?
« Reply #31 on: August 26, 2010, 10:57:50 AM »
I've reduced my collection by 1/2.  I may trim it some more.  5 guns will do everything I need to do.

12 gauge Shotgun
.30-06 Rifle
.50 Muzzleloader
.38 Pistol
.22 Rifle
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Offline Old Syko

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Re: too many guns?
« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2010, 02:28:38 PM »
There's an old saying about being a jack of all trades and a master of none that seems to fit here.  I have 6 different weapons that serve as my primaries.  If it has been a while since I spent serious time with any given one of them the learning curve starts again.  It's not just caliber differences that make a difference but guns themselves.  There is no such thing as a matched set.  There are always minute differences and they matter.  If all you're looking for is minute of critter, a few rounds down the pipe and you can call it a day.  To actually be good with any given weapon at a particular discipline takes the kind of practice Don has already mentioned including the instinctive shooting practice.

As far as calibers go, the fewer you have to stock the better and the more familiar you will be with what you have.  The recent ammo fiasco had no effect on me. It's been 4 or 5 years since I bought any and I don't intend to buy any quite some time to come and I still shoot 3 or 4 days a week.

Offline don heath

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Re: too many guns?
« Reply #33 on: August 26, 2010, 08:45:16 PM »
I'll aslo add though that just a few minutes a day of dry practice makes a world of difference.

ever since some nice fellow with an AK47 broke my shoulder I have had to 'limber up' in the mornings. I wake stiff and more grouchy than usual and spend 10 minutes streatching and dooing light exercises while the coffee cooks...then I started adding five minutes of dry fireing while the coffee cools to drinking temp. Just practicing cycling the bolt on my 9,3 with the butt still firmly in the shoulder broke a bad habit of many years standing of lowering the rifle to cycle the action. 20 dry shots with the 9,3 ..starting with rifle down, whipping it up, safety off fire , cylcel and fire angain then Twenty draws and mag changes (or these days full moon clip changes) and the coffee is ready to drink.

It takes 3000 repetitions to make a drill instinctive..do the drills slowly and technecally perfect for the first 3000 times..then you can work on speed because the 'muscle memory' (actually brain neurone connections) are in place

I also hate to admit I bought an Airsoft for my daughter to practice with ...and then had to buy one for me 

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: too many guns?
« Reply #34 on: August 27, 2010, 05:03:14 AM »
Here they sat 800 to 1500 times to make it second nature .  ;D guess it depends on teacher. fact is pratice makes perfect.
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Offline tacklebury

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Re: too many guns?
« Reply #35 on: August 27, 2010, 03:42:11 PM »
I think one thing to look at here is how many guns can you carry or use at any given time and how much does the ammo/components weigh.  Often when going out on LP/OP missions or such, you have to carry just enough to survive while keeping it light.  Similarly, you don't see many mountainmen bringing a second mule to carry munitions, let alone 3.  I like the fact that in one 3x3 box and 3 gun cases, I have all I need if bugout time happened.  Mine are as follows:

Definite grabs:
.45 Colt BC Carbine (for regular game hunting/ease of carry - this would be hand/shoulder)
.45 Colt New Model Blackhawk (for defensive carry/hunting and uses same round as carbine & has .45acp cyl if needed - hand/belt)
.45-70 BC (for long range/dangerous game/back-up regular game - cased)
.50 Hawken ML (back-up regular/dangerous game hunting - cased)
.50 Pistol ML (back-up defensive carry/back-up for regular game - cased w/ Hawken)
.22 Rimfire Stevens Crackshot (small game - cased)
.22 Rimfire H&R 9-shot revolver (small game - cased w/ Crackshot)
.177 Crossman 1377 (small game - can carry a ton of ammo - cased w/ Crackshot)

Extra's on hand if time/space allowed:
.45 ACP 1911 semi-auto (defensive carry only - would probably take - cased)
.50 Inline ML (back-up regular/dangerous game - might take - Cased)
.22 Bolt Glenfield Model 25 (small game - might take - cased)
.22 Semi Marlin Model 60 (small game - might take - cased)
7.5x55 1911 Schmidt-Rubin (Long Range/Sniping - probably wouldn't take - cased)
.410 H&R Single shot (small game - probably wouldn't take - cased)
16 ga. H&R Single shot (small game/regular game - probably wouldn't take - cased)
20 ga. Mossberg 500 Pump (small game/regular game - probably wouldn't take - cased)

All .22/.177 ammo is in milsurp ammo cans and easy to load up.  All loaded centerfire ammo is in one duffelbag (easy to access quickly) along with the premade muzzle loading bullets/perc. caps/209's.  Reloading components including Unique, Reloader7, H110 powders all in 3 small boxes within 1 larger 3x3 box - enough to load about 1400 light colt/acp rounds, 350 heavy colt/acp rounds, 250 .45-70 rounds. and all of it fits in the trunk of my car or Jeep (most likely Jeep would be going) and still fits the family and a box of rations and backpack and bag of survival gear.  And if the vehicle cannot be used, the 4 of us can carry this with one utility cart or hand truck for the reloading gear.

I've no problem with owning more guns of course, but this is my core that I know would last as they are simple actions, well maintained and versatile.  All require just (3) molds to cover the game spectrum and fire is required to survive and all that is needed to melt lead with a cast iron dipper.  Sources of salvaged lead to supplement could be reviewed, once pre-made bullets are gone and for some uses wooden slugs/clay projectiles can be used in emergency situations.  Using ammo wisely, not on a rapid fire basis, is the only way to go to increase longevity afield in such a situation.  In a truly fast happening situation, my Blackhawk sits right in the center of my house on my desk with a box of ammo right beside it and is on the way to the doors from where the family usually is.  In an extreme situation, I'd grab that one gun and box of ammo and just go...
Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.


Offline Odin

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Re: too many guns?
« Reply #36 on: November 11, 2010, 03:11:35 PM »
Once upon a time I believed that more is better.  But the older I got the more practical I became.  I also have reduced my collection down to 15 center fire, 4 rim fire and one old trusty shotgun.  And that’s not counting abut a half dozen airguns.  I now find myself practicing with only 5 on a regular basis. Of those five I would pack two in a bug out situation.  Those two would be a carbine and a pistol that use the same ammo.  The rest would only serve me well in an Alamo type situation.  At least that’s my plan for now.  :-\
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Offline mjh

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Re: too many guns?
« Reply #37 on: November 20, 2010, 04:45:08 AM »
Interesting reading through the topic.  As person with limited means, arn't most of us?, I have to think about my firearms very carefully.  Like to have at least two weapons in each caliber I own. Like to have common caliber firearms. Like to have at least a long arm and a handgun for each member of the family. Like each member of the family to have their own .22.  Easy to carry a brick of ammo.  Once I buy a firearm, I'm likely to keep it for a long time, use it, practice with it, hunt with it.  I may not have the latest and greatest, slickest or fastest.  I do have a few on my list that I would like to get and when they are purchased my needs will be met,.....now down the road I may see a want and get it but with needs met I'll try to stay focused on facilitating use, buying ammo, parts, maintence supplies.  Maybe a casche at a specific location.

Offline Lost Farmboy

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Re: too many guns?
« Reply #38 on: May 20, 2011, 02:02:20 PM »
Too many guns.  Sounds like my wife.  Left all my guns in the frozen North when I moved.  So I had to start over.  She said I don't have to have one for squirrels, another for deer and a third for turkeys.  Shoot them all with the same gun.  I told her un(fortunately ;) ) the law says I do.
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Offline blind ear

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Re: too many guns?
« Reply #39 on: May 20, 2011, 03:14:47 PM »
The only thing that I can see stressing about is not enough ammo. ear
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Offline teamnelson

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Re: too many guns?
« Reply #40 on: May 25, 2011, 01:46:59 PM »
Here's a thought: have you set the dope on all your guns? for all your ammo/loads?
I started doing that for my silhouette guns, and saw the little green book the other day in my range bag. Now I realize, I probably should do that with all of my guns ... which may actually help me prioritize again. I found for example that the .22 pistol I use for IHMSA Small Bore works equally well for Field Pistol just by changing ammo ... and the sight settings between stages were the same as well.

I think I'm well on my way to owning fewer and fewer, but better and better firearms, while at the same time expanding my effectiveness and versatility. And of course, I can only carry so many. ;)
held fast

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: too many guns?
« Reply #41 on: May 26, 2011, 02:56:15 AM »
Good points TeamNelson , I would add less to safe guard or move .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline teamnelson

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Re: too many guns?
« Reply #42 on: May 26, 2011, 10:52:29 AM »
Shootall, good point too. I think of the poor folks going through tornadoes & hurricanes right now ... we just started our hurricane season and the locals are thinking this will be year of the Big One we've been anticipating. You can't predict everything, but when the season is in, its not a bad idea to be able to fit your armory in a watertight locking container. That's being self-sufficient. Having a larger armory is a large investment of $, which you may have insured ... but I'm not counting on there always being an insurance company around to pay me the $ to replace the tools I deemed necessary for my own survival. They make pelican cases in some really good sizes, with wheels to roll 'em.
held fast

Offline pastorp

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Re: too many guns?
« Reply #43 on: May 27, 2011, 03:26:58 PM »
Don, Tell me more about your dad and his 8mm. Sounds like it worked on about everything. Could he buy 8mm solids where you live? As you probably know most USA game laws don't alow the use of solids so we are not very knowledgable about how they work.

Regards,
Byron

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NRA LIFE

Offline Lost Farmboy

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Re: too many guns?
« Reply #44 on: May 28, 2011, 05:00:54 AM »

With the few guns I have I try to help them be all they can be.  I do this with chamber adapters, Classic Lee Loaders and other things I learned on GBO.  I and my guns thank you for contributing your wisdom.
A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.   John F. Kennedy

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Offline don heath

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Re: too many guns?
« Reply #45 on: May 29, 2011, 11:44:52 PM »
Pastorp - 8mm mauser (7,9 to the brits) was a very common and popular round. Most ammo came with a 227grn round nosed, steel jacketed solid or 227grn soft. I have seen some 247grn softs and the military ball ammo (it was the standard service cartridge for Namibia, Tanzania as well as most of europe) was a 150grn spitzer boat tail or 192grn AP.

Shooting Elephant is always about shot placement. Shooting buffalo- it helps to use a good soft and start with a fair sized hole. Shooting lion? I am happy with the performance of my 9,3 or .375 but wouldn't want to use something smaller- especially at night - but dad used what he had and experience made him confident in both his, and the rifles capabilities. 

Offline reliquary

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Re: too many guns?
« Reply #46 on: May 30, 2011, 10:57:04 AM »
Overheard at a Gunaholics Anonymous meeting:

"Hello, my name is Reliquary, and I'm a Gunaholic."

"Hello, Reliquary", everyone choruses.

"I've been a Gunaholic since I was 8 years old, and until I reached the age of 67, I didn't think it was possible to have too many guns.  But in the last couple of years, I realized my error and have been trying to overcome my addiction.  Now I have cut back to just those things that I actually use: 4 centerfire rifles (5.56, 7.62x39, .45LC, .45 ACP), 4 centerfire pistols (.45LC & ACP), two rimfire pistols, two rimfire rifles, two pump 12's, and a 20 single.'

'I must confess to having some rimfire rifles and a 12 single in underground storage.  Does that count against me?

'Now I'm getting worried...is there such a thing as having too much ammo?  Thanks for your support"

Applause, applause, applause....




Offline pastorp

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Re: too many guns?
« Reply #47 on: May 31, 2011, 05:32:20 AM »
I think some of you guys are missing Dons point. He's not againt having a lot of guns but states that if you shoot only a few a lot you will be more proficient with them. Anyone catch that he buys a new barrel for his main hunting rifle every year. How many of you shoot out a barrel a year on your deer rifle?  :)

Regards,
Byron

Christian by choice, American by the grace of God.

NRA LIFE

Offline Rex in OTZ

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Whole lotta nothing.
« Reply #48 on: May 31, 2011, 09:50:57 AM »
Ther are fellas that love guns, they collets them and have closits full of them, are they good shots with every one of them? do they had adiquate cartridge selection for the particular type/caliber ther useing?
in the end you have a whole lotta nothing, better to have one of each caliber and hone skills in useing it, whats the use of having 3-4 shotguns if each groups in a diffrent spot?
same with rifles, get what you you can adiquately handle and stick with it and invest time and money in earning/honeing skills to adiquately use the tool.
Money can buy you allot but it cannot buy you skill and finess.

Offline Curtis

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Re: too many guns?
« Reply #49 on: May 31, 2011, 10:57:33 AM »
Why can't both worlds co-exist?  Admittedly I have more guns than I can shoot at all, much less shoot well.  However I have one in each niche (22, shotgun, deerslayer, defense) that I shoot enough to develop confidence in when it comes to getting the job done.  The other guns are just for "fun" and I won't stop collecting and shooting them until I have one of each and every kind (or until I reach 67 years of age and have better sense, ha ha ha ha!!!).

Curtis
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Offline teamnelson

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Re: too many guns?
« Reply #50 on: May 31, 2011, 11:12:51 AM »
Given this was started in the Survival Skills Discussion Forum, I inferred that Don's Original Post had something to do with the number of guns as it relates to one's survivability, the key factor being ability. I take it that a man who has mastered one gun (i.e. 8mm) most likely has a survival advantage over the collector of many guns, with mastery of none. Makes sense to me, so that's my goal then: have as many guns as I can master (time & $ permitting), and in my case, not one more so that the value of those extra guns goes to someone else who will master them (maybe my kids), or the cost involved may be spent on more ammo to master a priority gun. If survival is a factor in your spending, you may not feel like you can afford to collect more than you can master (or carry). If your financial situation allows, collect all you want ... with the full acknowledgement that in the event this survival discussion becomes a reality, make sure you have at least one you've mastered and can carry for the rest of your life.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: too many guns?
« Reply #51 on: May 31, 2011, 12:25:46 PM »
If you can shoot , you can shoot !
The one gun deal isn't 100% it may reflect aval. cash more than anything .
To survive its the will to do as needed with out hesitation Be it shooting an attacker or running out of harms way. If you are willing to do what is nessary most any gun will do in all but the worst of cases .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline pastorp

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Re: too many guns?
« Reply #52 on: May 31, 2011, 05:41:16 PM »
Don said he shot out the barrel in his primary hunting rifle a 9.3 every year. Wonder how many rounds that takes?

Regards,
Byron

Christian by choice, American by the grace of God.

NRA LIFE

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: too many guns?
« Reply #53 on: June 01, 2011, 06:40:27 AM »
Wonder if he shoots FMJ , maybe steel jacket ?
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline pastorp

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Re: too many guns?
« Reply #54 on: June 02, 2011, 04:17:42 PM »
Sounded to me like he shot a mix of solids & soft points. I think the steel jackets were the 8mm of his dads.
Still don't know how many 9.3 rounds it would take to shoot out a barrel. Maybe 7-8,000 rounds?

Lot of shooting with a heavy caliber.

Regards,
Byron

Christian by choice, American by the grace of God.

NRA LIFE

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: too many guns?
« Reply #55 on: June 03, 2011, 07:44:35 AM »
Some FMJ loads for dangerous game are steel.
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline don heath

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Re: too many guns?
« Reply #56 on: June 08, 2011, 09:38:29 PM »
Practice ammo is speer 270grn SP- the cheapest on the market. A barrel lasts 5-7000 rounds. When I was in National Parks I went through a barrel in short order. We were culling a couple thousand impala a year, plus the big stuff, plus weekly practice. These days a barrel lasts a bit longer. 

woodleigh steel jacketed solids cause less wear than brass monos...and less wear than some soft points like the swift A frame. Barrel wear being a mix of throat errosion by the gas and barrel expansion by the bullet. The more the barrel expands, the shorter the lifespan.

When I am not hunting I try to shoot 3-400 rounds per week. Much of this is .22LR- both from a rifle and a handgun. I am fortunate to have a trap machine and a range where I can safely shoot clays with a rifle. I shoot a mix of normal flying clays, lobed half bricks and clays bounced along the ground..

What amaizes me is how quickly I loose the last 10% of shooting skill. Take a months break and that vital edge is gone. It comes back quickly, but it still takes dry fireing and live firing for a couple of weeks to be back to what I am capable of. 

Offline Victor3

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Re: too many guns?
« Reply #57 on: June 09, 2011, 08:32:07 PM »
"...clays bounced along the ground.."

Huh? Clays in your part of the world must be made pretty sturdy. :-\
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Offline don heath

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Re: too many guns?
« Reply #58 on: June 09, 2011, 09:28:21 PM »
Victor- every sporting clays event has a 'rabbit' in the sequece..ie a clay clay thown on edge just above ground level so it skips and bounces. The orange 'olypic' clays don't survive this well but the normal black training clays do just fine. We also now have one called 'the buffalo'. A clay thrown straight at the shooter and aimed to hit him about groin hight...if you miss you will be sorry  ;) - It makes for very good training (and no- I don't try this one with a rifle- I am not that good)

Offline vacek

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Re: too many guns?
« Reply #59 on: July 16, 2011, 05:06:49 PM »
I am going to reduce as well.  Selling my Yugo SKS, Mosin 38, Makarov, and H&R etc.  I am also getting rid of 3 shotgun presses and 2 single stage presses along with a bunch of stuff.
 
Going to take the money and buy a nice .223 (based on Don's writings) for the wife. Well, I'm telling her that its for her.