Author Topic: LA boycotts arizona  (Read 3142 times)

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Offline jpred1

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LA boycotts arizona
« on: May 12, 2010, 05:20:43 PM »
I just wish all the dummys would get on over there and the whole darn state of California would drift on off into the sunset. Just watched a interview of the governor of LA and seems by her words they have not been following laws for years because they FEEL like they have a better way of dealing with illegals.Meaning thier entire police forces are following a screwed up way of looking at things.
Still dreaming of that Boone and Crocket Pistol Kill!!!

Offline torpedoman

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Re: LA boycotts arizona
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2010, 05:28:49 PM »
They'll get over it real quick if Az shuts off their electrical grid.
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Online Dee

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Re: LA boycotts arizona
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2010, 06:01:02 PM »
California has been the Cradle of Decadence for decades. I don't really care what they think about anything. There are some good folks out there, and I guess they stay because it's their home, but I could think of better places to live.
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Offline wreckhog

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Re: LA boycotts arizona
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2010, 06:02:05 PM »
Who is the governor of LA?

Offline nomosendero

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Re: LA boycotts arizona
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2010, 06:02:39 PM »
They'll get over it real quick if Az shuts off their electrical grid.

Good point!

Maybe the rest of us should boycott CA!!
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Offline jpred1

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Re: LA boycotts arizona
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2010, 06:06:55 PM »
I wish more states would jump on the Arizona side, esp. Texas.Hell, they are just enforcing an already existing law!!!
Still dreaming of that Boone and Crocket Pistol Kill!!!

Offline wreckhog

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Re: LA boycotts arizona
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2010, 06:08:06 PM »
Isn't the electrical grid linked nationally? If the primary goes down, it gets pulled from somewhere else? A friend used to work for a utility as sort of an energy trader, buying and selling electricity nationally.

Offline Victor3

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Re: LA boycotts arizona
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2010, 02:14:18 AM »
Who is the governor of LA?

 He must be talking about Lower Alabama or something. I think Los Angeles only has a Mayor.
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Offline gypsyman

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Re: LA boycotts arizona
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2010, 02:43:14 AM »
It's a mexican guy by the name of Antonio Villaraigosa. As far as the power grid, I believe it can be controlled somewhat. But, yes, LA gets their electricity from AZ. and Texas. I remember a couple years ago when they had brown outs,heck of a term considering how mwny Mexicans live ther, they had to beg AZ and Texas to give them more juice.
I just read where a high school girls basketball team is boycotting AZ because of their new law. What a croc. This pc crap is bringing down this country faster and faster. gypsyman
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Offline Savage .250

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Re: LA boycotts arizona
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2010, 03:00:06 AM »
Who is the governor of LA?

+1.            I was wondering the same thing!
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: LA boycotts arizona
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2010, 03:19:44 AM »
The "grid" is used to "wheel" power . It all goes into the grid and you pay the suppliers . So a company puts in X amount and LA pays them to pull so much out . The companies that own the transmission lines could control flow if laws don't stop them from doing so.
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Offline wreckhog

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Re: LA boycotts arizona
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2010, 03:44:00 AM »
The "grid" is used to "wheel" power . It all goes into the grid and you pay the suppliers . So a company puts in X amount and LA pays them to pull so much out . The companies that own the transmission lines could control flow if laws don't stop them from doing so.
No doubt it would be a problem if you cut power to a hospital and all the patients died.

Offline Mad Dog

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Re: LA boycotts arizona
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2010, 03:49:57 AM »
Who is the governor of LA?


well in wreckhog's defense, when I first opened this thread, I thought the OP meant Louisiana, not Los Angeles.  But back to California......what would you expect from those folks!?! ::)

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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: LA boycotts arizona
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2010, 03:52:39 AM »
So what will they boycott ? Stop taking illegals or what ?
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline magooch

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Re: LA boycotts arizona
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2010, 04:33:36 AM »
This is all about the Latinos and the liberals being stupid and un-American.  California just happens to have more than their share of both.  Apparently, Illinois does too (re girls ball team prohibited from going to Az).  I expect my own state (Wa) with its liberal governor, legislature and big city dipwads to jump on the anti-Arizona bandwagon any time now.

I don't think any of this is going to change any minds.  It merely clarifies how far off-base the liberal, pro-border jumpers and invaders are.
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Offline billy_56081

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Re: LA boycotts arizona
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2010, 04:56:31 AM »
If I remember correctly one of our firearms manufacturer has boycotted Cali. Barret will sell nofirearms to them because they have banned their 50 cals there. It is nice to see someone put the constitution over profit.

I cannot believe that enforcing a law is a bad thing. If this law is so bad where are the politician calling for a repeal of it? I would love to see some of the socialist try ro run on that one.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: LA boycotts arizona
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2010, 04:59:42 AM »
Think about this , If AZ could get all states to boycott them they should be able to leave the union unopposed RIGHT ?  ::)
This could be the start of someting beautiful . ;D
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Offline magooch

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Re: LA boycotts arizona
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2010, 04:53:50 AM »
If I remember correctly one of our firearms manufacturer has boycotted Cali. Barret will sell nofirearms to them because they have banned their 50 cals there. It is nice to see someone put the constitution over profit.

I cannot believe that enforcing a law is a bad thing. If this law is so bad where are the politician calling for a repeal of it? I would love to see some of the socialist try ro run on that one.

Billy, perhaps you would care to amend the part about enforcing laws.  I'm sure you would agree that there are good laws and some very bad laws.  Enforcing a bad law is indeed a very bad thing--but I get your point.
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Offline wreckhog

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Re: LA boycotts arizona
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2010, 05:05:45 AM »
If I remember correctly one of our firearms manufacturer has boycotted Cali. Barret will sell nofirearms to them because they have banned their 50 cals there. It is nice to see someone put the constitution over profit.

I cannot believe that enforcing a law is a bad thing. If this law is so bad where are the politician calling for a repeal of it? I would love to see some of the socialist try ro run on that one.
Isn't the ban on .50's sort of a law. That is being enforced?

Offline billy_56081

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Re: LA boycotts arizona
« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2010, 11:59:09 AM »
Barret will not sell there 50 cals or repair parts to law enforcement. That is how Barret is boycotting Cali.

And I will stand with what I said before. If a law is a so called a "bad" law repeal it. I have heard the libtards use "well millions of people are in violation of immigration laws so the law should be changed". My reply was well millions of people have been convicted of DWI laws and millions more have violated those laws maybe we should abolish them too. And while we're at it we can do away with speed limits also.  It seems to end the discussion right there.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: LA boycotts arizona
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2010, 05:00:40 AM »
OK lets all get togather and jump up and down at the same time , maybe it will cause the shaky side to break off and fall into the ocean  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Offline wreckhog

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Re: LA boycotts arizona
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2010, 07:17:04 AM »
Ain't that what Mexico is doing by shipping all the illegal jumping beans there?

Offline teamnelson

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Re: LA boycotts arizona
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2010, 08:49:48 AM »
If the great folks of LA were really sincere, they'd abandon their property holdings in the valley - commercial and residential. That's when I'll believe they mean it.
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Offline saddlebum

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Re: LA boycotts arizona
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2010, 09:12:52 AM »
Arizona says, put up or shut up!!

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/may/18/arizona-dares-los-angeles-to-carry-out-boycott/

YOU GO ARIZONA!!!!

Arizona will be more than happy to ablige LA if they REALLY want to boycott.
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Offline rockbilly

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Re: LA boycotts arizona
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2010, 10:28:51 AM »
Now the liberal city council of Austin, TX has jumped on the bandwagon and voted to boycott AZ.  This is kinda funny, sixteen Texas Legislators have express a goal of passing a similar law here in Texas.

They Got My Vote!!!!! 8)

Offline teamnelson

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Re: LA boycotts arizona
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2010, 01:01:33 PM »
Arizona Official Threatens to Cut Off Los Angeles Power as Payback for Boycott

Quote
"I received your message; please receive mine. As a statewide elected member of the Arizona Corporation Commission overseeing Arizona's electric and water utilities, I too am keenly aware of the 'resources and ties' we share with the city of Los Angeles," Pierce wrote.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/05/19/arizona-official-threatens-cut-los-angeles-power-payback-boycott/

Folks, a couple centuries ago the militias of CA and AZ would be on alert. We've become so enamored of our obese federal government we've forgotten that the federation of sovereign states aka U.S.A. relies on the cooperation of peers, not the coercion of the Fed.

And for the comment about hospitals ... the responsibility falls on LA; they can buy their power elsewhere.
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Offline Cabin4

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Re: LA boycotts arizona
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2010, 04:41:37 PM »
Boycott California.
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Offline gypsyman

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Re: LA boycotts arizona
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2010, 05:28:22 PM »
I wonder, now that an elected official has publicly stated to shut down power to LA, what the fed's can do?? I stand behind what AZ has done, and wouldn't blame them in the least. Not sure if LA can pick up extra power from other sources. The Pacific NW has plenty of hydro plants, but can the wires feed the extra electricity? Remember a couple years ago when they had the rolling brownouts. We're going into summertime, when if S.Cal. gets a heat wave, there is lots of a/c units and refrigerators running overtime. And, just today, the big O, was kissing the presidente of Mexico's butt. Even to the point of bad mouthing AZ. Nice to know that your president is backing a foreign country, instead of one of our own. 'Course he's done that from the very beginning, so nothing new there. Yep, this summer is going to very interesting. Anybody else smell 1968 all over again? gypsyman
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Offline wreckhog

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The source of rolling blackouts
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2010, 05:51:34 PM »
Enron linked to California blackouts
Traders said manipulation began energy crisis
By Jason Leopold
LOS ANGELES (CBS.MW) -- Two days of rolling blackouts in June 2000 that marked the beginning of California's energy crisis were directly caused by manipulative energy trading, according to a dozen former traders for Enron and its rivals.

The blackouts left more than 100,000 businesses and residential customers in the dark for parts of two days, trapped people in elevators and shut down some offices of high-tech companies such as Cisco Systems and Apple Computer, as well as chipmaking plants, costing millions of dollars in lost revenue.

The traders said that Enron's former president, Jeff Skilling, pushed them to "trade aggressively" in California and to do whatever was necessary to take advantage of the state's wholesale market to boost the price of Enron's stock .

"Skilling would say, 'if you can't do that then you need to find a job at another company,'" said one former senior Enron trader, who requested anonymity because of concerns about potential investigations. "He said we should go trade pork bellies if we can't be aggressive."

The traders also said that Enron's retail unit, Enron Energy Services, or EES, used the fear created by the blackouts to push large California businesses into more than $1 billion in long-term energy contracts.

The disclosures brought a harsh response from California Gov. Gray Davis, who said in an interview with CBS MarketWatch.com that Enron should be prosecuted for its actions.

"Someone at Enron should go to jail," Davis said. "Purposely putting people's lives in jeopardy in the name of greed is inexcusable."

The disclosures come as Congress turns up the heat on Enron and the energy industry over their involvement in the California electricity crisis of 2000 and 2001. Senate Democrats on Wednesday said they would ask Army Secretary Thomas White, who was vice chairman of EES during the energy crisis, to testify about the unit's role. See full story.

The senior traders, all of whom requested anonymity, now work at other energy companies including Duke Energy /quotes/comstock/13*!duk/quotes/nls/duk (DUK 16.49, -0.21, -1.26%) , Reliant Energy /quotes/comstock/10w!i:rei (REI 197.95, -2.07, -1.03%) , Dynegy /quotes/comstock/13*!dyn/quotes/nls/dyn (DYN 1.23, +0.02, +1.65%) , Williams Cos. /quotes/comstock/13*!wmb/quotes/nls/wmb (WMB 19.88, -0.32, -1.58%) and UBS Warburg /quotes/comstock/13*!ubs/quotes/nls/ubs (UBS 13.89, -0.03, -0.22%) . Warburg won Enron's trading unit in an auction earlier this year.

The traders said they agreed to speak after another former Enron employee, David Fabian, wrote a letter to California Sen. Barbara Boxer in February saying he overheard traders talk about manipulating California's power market during 2000.

The allegations Fabian made in his letter to Boxer in February matched details in internal Enron memos released last week by the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. The memos -- written in December 2000 -- describe how Enron traders could reap enormous profits for the company by exploiting loopholes in California's flawed electricity market.

Skilling was named chief executive of Enron one week after company attorneys wrote a Dec. 6, 2000 memo describing the now famous "Death Star," "Ricochet," and "Fat Boy" trading strategies.

In an interview with several news organizations at the time, Skilling said Enron would be in an even stronger position in 2001 because of its "abundant" supplies of power and gas. But he said questions raised by other energy companies about California's ability to pay for power could result in Enron limiting its sales to the state.

"As the (utilities') credit exposure gets too high, we will limit the amount of power we deliver into California," Skilling said at the time. "Eventually, the state is going to have to provide these companies with the credit support from somewhere to support their purchases."

A spokeswoman for Skilling would not comment for this story. A spokesman for Enron also declined comment. Enron has consistently maintained that its trading strategies didn't violate any laws.

Phantom congestion
The traders and former traders, who traded electricity in the spot and forward markets, have retained lawyers in the event that the U.S. Department of Justice or congressional committees investigating Enron's role in California's power crisis subpoena them.

Gregg Fishman, spokesman for the California Independent System Operator, the state agency that manages the power grid, called the practice "phantom congestion," a reference made in the internal Enron memos released last week. "Phantom congestion" means power is being sent over a transmission line by the party holding the transmission rights simply to force others to pay more to use the line, according to Fishman.

The traders said Enron held the transmission rights on Path 26, a key transmission line connecting Northern California to Central California and also connecting to Path 15, a major bottleneck grid pathway in Northern California.

In fact, the dozen traders said they began manipulating California's power grid beginning in February 2000 and continued until the spring of 2001. The traders said the practices they engaged in resulted in two days of rolling blackouts in Northern California in the summer of 2000.

On June 14 and June 15 that summer, when a heat wave swept through Northern California and pushed temperatures above 100 degrees, the traders said Enron clogged Path 26 with power, essentially creating a bottleneck that would not allow power to be sent via Path 15 to Northern California.

"What we did was overbook the line we had the rights on during a shortage or in a heat wave,'" one trader said. "We did this in June 2000 when the Bay Area was going through a heat wave and the ISO couldn't send power to the North. The ISO has to pay Enron to free up the line in order to send power to San Francisco to keep the lights on. But by the time they agreed to pay us, rolling blackouts had already hit California and the price for electricity went through the roof."

Enron was paid tens of millions of dollars in 2000 by the ISO to free up the congested line in order to allow electricity to be sent to Northern California, the traders said.

The traders said this was one of the ways Enron allegedly manipulated the price of power in California and continued to do so until mid-2001, when power prices sharply declined.

Gary Stern, the director of market monitoring for Southern California Edison /quotes/comstock/13*!eix/quotes/nls/eix (EIX 32.91, -0.35, -1.05%) , said he has long suspected that Enron manipulated power flows in the state to reap enormous profits.

"In February 2000, Enron acquired the 1,000 megawatts of the 1,600 megawatts of available transmission capacity on Path 26 from north to south in an ISO-run auction," Stern said. "SCE and my group had argued for position limitations so that no party could acquire so much" capacity as to be able to manipulate the market. The ISO board refused, however.

Enron paid a modest price for the transmission capacity because it was a new transmission path with no pricing history, he said. "After Enron acquired the capacity, we began seeing significant levels of congestion in the day-ahead market on that path and the congestion revenues accumulating for Enron began to mount. We estimated that in the first six months of 2000 Enron profited $30 million to $50 million on Path 26 by buying the firm transmission right at a low price then receiving the revenue from high levels of transmission congestion. It appears that the congestion was, in part, created by Enron's own traders."

Information available from the ISO shows that congestion revenues on Path 15 and 26 within the first six months of 2000 increased tenfold, from about $20 a megawatt-hour to more than $200. But there is no evidence that an increase in electricity consumption in California is the reason for the transmission line congestion, according to the ISO.

"The number of hours congested decreased on most paths in 2001, compared to 2000, with the exception of Path 26," according to a January 2002 report from the grid operator's department of market analysis.

Joe Wagner, a former Enron power trader said he is "sure Enron did use the market rules to their advantage in California" but he believes the state's troubled power market also played a part in exacerbating the crisis.

"Enron found legal ways to make money given the market rules that were in place and these strategies probably did influence prices somewhat," Wagner said. "Enron did game the transmission rights market, but so did many other companies. Enron sent a letter to the state of California in 2000 telling them the market was flawed. Enron offered to help the state set up a good market. This letter was sent out to all Houston Enron employees so they could see that we had nothing to do with the crisis."

New business
The former Enron traders said skyrocketing power prices enabled Enron Energy Services to sign contracts with large businesses whose owners feared they would be hit with expensive electricity bills. The crisis in California also helped the retail unit sign contracts with large businesses in other states because business executives feared deregulation of the electricity markets there would result in a California-like crisis.

"This was like the perfect storm," said former EES executive Steve Barth. "First, our traders are able to buy power for $250 in California and sell it to Arizona for $1,200 and then resell it to California for five times that. Then EES was able to go to these large companies and say 'sign a 10-year contract with us and we'll save you millions.'"

During the height of the crisis, EES signed more than $1 billion in long-term energy deals with companies such as Compaq Computer Corp., Starwood Hotels & Resorts, Rich Products Corp. and Prudential Insurance of America, all of which have operations in California.

Army Secretary Thomas White was vice chairman of EES during the time of California's power crisis.

Barth said White got EES' sales team to take advantage of the California crisis by offering large businesses a break on their electricity bills if they would sign lucrative deals with EES.

"Thomas White told us the California electricity crisis was our chance to turn EES into a profitable unit of Enron," Barth said. "He said the energy crisis in California would put EES on the map."

A spokesman for the Pentagon said White has cooperated with all official inquiries into the Enron situation and that he has consistently maintained that EES was not engaged in any "shenanigans."

The Enron traders said their competitors at other rival energy companies learned of their tricks through word of mouth at local bars in Houston and soon everyone was buying power in California for $250 and selling to Nevada or Washington for $1,200.

Offline wreckhog

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Re: LA boycotts arizona
« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2010, 06:57:48 PM »
Now if you read this article, you will see that California actually sells electricity to Arizona. Hmmm.