Good Load for 38 55

[RFD18]

Does anyone out here have a good starting load for an H@R 38 55 Buffalo Classic? I have a 250gr Lee mould and dies.I don't know what to expect from the gun at 100yrs.I have read about the chamber size and all the problems.My bore measures .379.

[26-t]

Have you tried to chamber a round loaded with the .379 bullet? My 38-55 will not chamber the round with a .379 dia. bullet. The chamber must be to small. I resize the bullet to .3765 and the action will close but it has a 5 inch group at 25 yards.    26-t

[AtlLaw]

First things first.    Make up a dummy round with your bullet of choice and see if it chambers.  Probably one sized .379 and another at .380.  

The deer in my avatar was taken with a .379 inch, 265 gr. jacketed bullet.   

[gcrank1]

I use that same bullet sized ,379 in fireformed 30-30 cases which chamber and extract/eject fine. If I go to .380 they stick. 16.0 to 18.0 of IMR 4227 works quite well in this rifle and a previous model even out to some 250yd. At 50yd. off my back deck rail very casual rest I can get consistent 1" groups if I do my part (old 3X Weaver scope).
If you are using current length 38-55 brass (shorter than the old brass) and right on the edge of fit with the .379 you may be able to slightly neck turn the cases (just clean up the neck thickness to uniform all the way around) and have it fit nicely. My even shorter reformed 30-30s get back in the chamber taper a tad more and the necks are a smidge thinner than my 38-55 brass so it is a 'quick and dirty' way to make it work.

[quickdtoo]

I've got one of the last 38-55 Targets H&R made in 2007, .379" jacketed and .380" cast chamber fine in Starline long brass, accuracy is excellent loaded to 375 Win velocities with 220gr jacketed, 325gr gas checked cast bullets don't shoot quite as good. It's a real shame that H&R finally fixed the tight chamber necks and then discontinued them. 

Tim

[dpe.ahoy]

Tim, didn't Richard mention something about reaming out the neck to .400" to allow the .380's to chamber.   Maybe it was someone else, CRS is working overtime again.   DP

[gcrank1]

FWIW, I checked out all I found about that too and it is probably the ultimate way to go, but I decided to see what I could work out short of that to get user friendly loading and acceptable results. So far Im not inclined to go that way though I can understand why someone else would.
In spite of what you have read/heard about these chambers (and when was yours made?) this is an under rated cartridge in a strong action. I REALLY like mine (sold the first one, WHY?, so I got another).
I dont resize the cases, just deprime in a universal decap die, recap with a Lee Auto Prime, recharge and hand fit my .379 sized/lubed WWt bullet into the neck. It fits with just a bit of tension, perfect for me for general use. For hunting you could/should crimp, but I carry my extra cartridges in a 'Sucrets tin' and have no trouble.

[quickdtoo]

Tim, didn't Richard mention something about reaming out the neck to .400" to allow the .380's to chamber.   Maybe it was someone else, CRS is working overtime again.   DP

The older barrels that require a .381" or bigger bullet will benefit from neck reaming without having to use short brass, 4D rents a .400"  neck reamer, see 38-55 Neck Reamer in the FAQs. 

Tim

[RFD18]

Thanks for the info .I have tried to load a few winchester cases but thay won't chamber.I have sent for some long starline brass,but thay are not producing any at this time.I want to use cast lead bullets only.

[lonewolf5348]

I have a 38-55 but I think they were made by marlin the last year,tim should know he was the one who explain the spec: are a lot better then the older ones made by H@R.
I slug my bore at .3785 but with winchester brass the best I could do was .379 cast boolet that would let the chamber lock  up.
I purchased some starline brass wow I can go as high as .382 on cast bullets.
I worked up a load using IMR 3031 33.00 grains and a sarco 255 FP soft cast that sits a hair off the lands,no gas checks no barrel leading .379 and .380 soft lead BHN 10 and 12

Peep sights from the bench at about 75 yards
I can keep the groupe about 2" at tyhe 100 yd target on a good day and hit steel plates out to 500 yards using the williams FP rear sight and a t/c red fiber optic front sight .450
man I love the gun and can shoot it all day

[dpe.ahoy]

That's a nice group!  I gotta get mine out and start playing with it.  Like yours, I can chamber .379's but not .380's.  Can't find any Starline brass and have over 300 cases of Winchester brass I want to use.  My Marlin 38-55 seemed to chamber the 380's without any resistance using the Winchester brass.  Waitin' fer spring to get gumbo mud dryed up.   DP

[26-t]

I am using Winchester 38-55 brass and with .379 Lee cast lead. I have a lump at the neck of the brass with unsized (new) brass . I guess I need to ream the ID of the necks of the 38-55 winchester brass? 26-t

[gcrank1]

A lump when/where?
I always run new brass thru the sizer, chamfer in/out mouth edges and load up a trial load then all to fire form.
If your loaded round wont chamber to be able to fire try removing your decap stem and running the cartridge up into the sizing die far enough to squeeze it down to fit. After fire forming the necks may 'straighten out'.

[26-t]

Here are some images of what I have going on with the loaded rounds. I have resized the new brass before loading to open the case up but it will not expand enough and concentric . The bullet is cocked in the case . I have slugged the the bore and it measured .378. What is a guy to do?

[Blackhawker]

Have you tried to chamber a round loaded with the .379 bullet? My 38-55 will not chamber the round with a .379 dia. bullet. The chamber must be to small. I resize the bullet to .3765 and the action will close but it has a 5 inch group at 25 yards.    26-t

26-t, are you referring to the barrel you recently purchased from "Shooter 72" (I think that's his name ) ?  If so, I traded that barrel with him only days before you bought it from him.  The barrel never locked up on either of my frames correctly (too loose) so I never fired it but I was able to chamber my .379 diameter 265gr gas checked loads in it.  I wonder why you're having chambering problems with that same diameter.    I'd recommend trimming your brass before using it and then deburring it on both the inside and outside.  Lastly, be wary of how much crimp you use when seating the bullet.  I have found that sometimes too much crimp can cause a bulge around the neck.

You should be getting much better accuracy than you're reporting with a 38-55.  Did you slug the barrel?  I have a feeling that you're shooting too small of a diameter bullet.   At 25 yards you should be shooting 5 rounds in the same hole.

[Blackhawker]

I composed my last message while you posted your last one.  You HAVE slugged it... .378 which should work with .379 bullets.  The bulge you're showing is typical.  Do you flare your case necks before seating bullets?  Try that and you should get the bulge to be even because you'll have more control when you place the bullet on the open neck of the cartridge.  (By "even" I mean if you roll a loaded round across the table the bulge should be uniform as the cartridge rolls.)  I've found that if I seat a bullet too fast and just ram the thing in, the bulge is very uneven and off-centered.  If I roll a cartridge like that on the table, the bulge sort of "wobbles".  However, if I very slowly seat the bullet, the bulge typically appears more uniform and centered.  (a little trick I learned from loading the 38-55)
Try that and see what happens.  It's not going to totally eliminate the bulge altogether but I've found that it will minimize the extreme widths and makes chambering easier.

[26-t]

It is the same barrel Blackhawker,I had to shim it .002 on the frame,It locks up tight.Check out the photos that I posted and see what is going on with it. I do a deburring on the cases in/out . The barrel may close a round in a loose chamber but when you get it to latch up tight then it is to tight and will not chamber. Thanks 26-t

[26-t]

I am using Lee Dies and yes I expand the neck as much a the die will allow. I will try you technique on seating and see if it helps, but it still will be to large a dia. to close in the chamber. Do you know what the vintage the barrel is Blackhawker ? 26-t

[Blackhawker]

It is the same barrel Blackhawker,I had to shim it .002 on the frame,It locks up tight.Check out the photos that I posted and see what is going on with it. I do a deburring on the cases in/out . The barrel may close a round in a loose chamber but when you get it to latch up tight then it is to tight and will not chamber. Thanks 26-t

I'm almost positive that it's the same barrel.  It was in brand new condition, has a epoxied scope base on it and a filler in the front sight dove tail....but it DID need a shimming however.  When I bought it, I found that the hinge arc was off-centered and I didn't really know where the center of the shim should be placed.  I didin't feel like messing with it so I traded it off.....left the shimming to some of you guys who know how to do it.

I understand that a loose fit will not chamber correctly as compared to a tight fit but I dropped rounds into the chamber of that barrel and they were absolutely flush when compressing the extractor tight into the battery position.  Yes, a few here and there had a slight hang-up and fit kinda tight but nothing bad or nothing that I wouldn't hesitate from firing.  If you're really in doubt about this however, you might try a chamber cast to get the real diameter.....either that or try what I said about seating the bullets.  
Another note on bullet seating, try seating half way, then withdraw and rotate the cartridge 180 degrees, then continue the seating slowly.  That seems to help too.  
I suppose one of our calipers could be off too.    That would negate this whole discussion.

[Blackhawker]

I am using Lee Dies and yes I expand the neck as much a the die will allow. I will try you technique on seating and see if it helps, but it still will be to large a dia. to close in the chamber. Do you know what the vintage the barrel is Blackhawker ? 26-t

I use Lymann dies, not by any particular choice or reason though.  I got them as part of a package when I bought my original Buffalo Classice with an additional 38-55 Target barrel.  All my other dies are Lee.
I don't know the actual vintage of the barrel you have.  I bought it from a guy here about a year ago.  I sat on it for a while because it was such a nice barrel....didn't want to get rid of it but I didn't know what to do as for shimming it.  The guy I got it from said he had it factory fitted and I would guess it was about a year before I bought it from him, so I would say it's probably about 2 yrs old  ...ish

[26-t]

The barrel is as you have stated ,epoxied base and filler in site.I think your longer chamber lock up in your frame will make a large difference as the chamber is quite tapered in the 38-55, .002 in length is a lot in a tapered chamber. 26-t     A chamber cast is what I need to do. I try to find my flower of sulfer and stink up the house.

[Blackhawker]

The barrel is as you have stated ,epoxied base and filler in site.I think your longer chamber lock up in your frame will make a large difference as the chamber is quite tapered in the 38-55, .002 in length is a lot in a tapered chamber. 26-t 

I suppose anything is possible.  A chamber cast would probably be the best thing to be absolutly certain, then you would see if you need the chamber neck reamed.  Nonetheless, if your barrel slugs at .378, you need to shoot .379 cast bullets for best accurracy.  With undersized bullets you're going to see poor accuracy and possibly key-holing at longer distances.
Good luck with your exploration, 38-55's are a ton of fun to load and shoot.

[26-t]

Thanks for the help, and I will do a casting of the chamber and report back. 26-t

[quickdtoo]

The bullet is cocked in the case . I have slugged the the bore and it measured .378. What is a guy to do?

The cocked bullet means to me that the seater plug doesn't fit the bullet nose properly, you may be able to eliminate the runout by seating the bullet slowly in increments and rotating the cartridge between each stage, if that doesn't work, you'll need have a custom seater plug made or make one yourself with epoxy. RCBS will make one for their die if you send them 2 bullets.

Tim

[26-t]

Tim- Quickdtoo, the case has a swell that will not allow the cartridge to chamber. Some are cocked, but all are to large to close. I have not did a chamber casting yet,but i will . Is this a common problem for the 38-55? 26-t

[quickdtoo]

Yup, normal for pre Marlin 38-55s,  sounds like a good candidate for neck reaming, 4D has the reamer for rent, direct link in the FAQs. 

Tim

[26-t]

Thanks, Tim 26-t

[mauser98us]

If you don't want to ream or can't here is how I solved my issue. I trimmed my brass to  .375 Winchester length, then seated the bullet till the action closed. If using cast, you need to make sure the last grease groove is covered so it does not attract dirt,etc. I realize this is not the proper way to fix,but it works for me. And I second Tim's technique of slowly seating the bullet while rotating the case. I do this on all my rounds when seating bullets,but only use a single stage press.

[gcrank1]

Rather than trim all that 38-55 brass back, sell it here and get some .375 or fire form some cheap 30-30 brass and give it a go. Dont feel obligated to use OAL figures from 'the book' or the crimp groove on the bullet. With enough neck tension (only need .001-.002") you dont need a crimp anyway for single shot rifles (they usually shoot better without that distorting the lead bullet).
The 38-55 chamber is just a long taper without any real neck portion or leade into the rifling (this also called a 'no throat' condition). The sizing die puts a parallel 'neck' on the case to hold the bullet which is not in the chamber. (I dont know if the .375Win chamber is different, though I suspect it is) The 'problem' with the 38-55 is/was it predated the SAAMI specs and H&R used the 'old form' in the earlier rifles when they should have done a bit more research (and apparently finally got right). It is not insurmountable nor terribly difficult or expensive to work with it, or change it, for success. I use the KISS principle until it proves not to work before I get to more complicated solutions.

[quickdtoo]

375 Win brass is thicker at the neck, so it aggravates the issue even further, so you have to trim it even shorter than the thinner 38-55 or 30-30 brass. 

Tim